ESO's World Building

Deinoforo
Deinoforo
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Hello, people! I'd like to know the general opinion of the players on how ESO puts Tamriel together. My opinion contains spoilers
The game has been out for almost six years, and throughout it's history we had a lot of adventures in our favorite places of the Elder Scrolls series, but... is the world well built?
For me, vanilla ESO's efforts to explain stuff was a masterpiece. Yes, the game had SEVERAL flaws upon launch, but we are not talking about gameplay wise feature here. The game presents to the player this major conflict that divides the land in a three-way fashion, and, along with that, Molag Bal plans on absorbing Nirn into Coldharbour. To do so, he sends the dark anchors to suck the planet to his real. So, you have to fight these world events from happening in game. But, why there's SO many people fighting these anchors, if I'm the hero of my game? Because they are fighters from the fighter's guild, sworn to take on these anchors. Brilliantly solved.
As far as mages guild go, most of the quests are in alternate realms, that's why you'd never see anyone else. They are doing their stuff while you do yours.
The story comes to a point where the three faction leaders come to a neutral place to discuss the planemeld problem, they can't agree on a truce, but agree on sending the guilds to take on molag bal. That's why cyrodiil is accessible, and fights keep going on.
They built it in such a way that left little loose ends. Props to you writers.

Then, came the expansions. In craglorn, they kept a sense of trying to keep a comprehensive world built. There were dark anchors there, already destroyed, because the planemeld has already been stopped, and the story has moved forward. You are called to craglorn because the stars are being weird and raising concern. Why doesn't this concern show in other regions? Because the star gazers have been keeping the matter under a low profile in order to not alarm commoners. Ok, that works.
Morrowind is meh. It is a really good reiteration of the 2002 game and it felt good to revisit my favorite game with new graphics. But.. there's no anchors there and nobody ever recalls the planemeld. The place was left out since it's just an island? Eh.. But the worst is that, during morrowind's story, Vivec loses his powers, causing Baar Dau to almost crash into the city. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE outside of vvardenfell heard of this, EVER, no dark elf expresses concern over his distant relatives in vivec city, no one cares if vivec is alright, Almalexia doesn't have a single interaction about you meeting him, either you completed morrowind before or after mournhold. Jeez, your god almost died and took his city with him, what is your guys' problem?

Then clockwork was released, setting up summerset. Oh, summerset. Beautiful place, terrible design. Here, the triad is messing up the place with these completely not dark anchor-esc geysers. Outside of summerset, not a single soul cares about the island being overrun with daedra. Of course, why would they? As the events happen in summerset, the rest of the world is still fighting the dark anchors and the planemeld like it never went away... what bothers me most is that nearly all characters set up in vanilla are thrown away at this point. Why would the Skald King or King Emeric let their champion travel ALL the way over to summerset, land of their enemies? No one suspected a trap? Like, at all? Do the kings have ANY line stating their opinion about any of this? Nope, they are as good as dead. "Oh, they are fighting a war", so why, would he let a capable soldier go on sightseeing in enemy territory? Even Ayrenn is missing here, to be fair. They DID do a character progression with Veya of Balmora, but there's that.

Ok, next, Elsweyr. The worst one for me. here they reintroduced Abnur Tharn, our favorite douchy mage imperial, who have previously fled with the Amulet of Kings, but for some reason, you can't really interrogate him over it, or over where he was during all the other mess that happened during his absence. The story finishes Caldwell arc, ok. What gets me is that not a SINGLE dragon thought about leaving elsweyrs borders, like, "hm, people over here in reaper's march are not expecting me, free food, i guess." nope. Is ANYONE outside elsweyr scared of the dragon rumours? Nah, the dragons are locked to that desert. Again, is the Skald King or Emeric concerned about you going there, again to enemy territories, to fight a threat that is but a legend? King who?

I haven't played Greymoor, so I won't give my opinion on that, BUT, I saw that Lyris Titanborn appears in the story. This is a MAJOR story flaw. God, you gave me the option to sacrifice Lyris in the God of Schemes quest. So, if I killed her for the ritual, would she not appear? Or, is she a zombie? Is greymoor pre-planemeld so she didn't die yet? Do my choices matter?

For me, ESO needed to reuse their characters more, bring the faction leaders. How is the conflict going during this exact period? What are the regular people's opinion? Second, they needed to have the world move forward along with the story. Have the dark anchors, in the regular maps become world event tags, instead. It makes NO sense in having dark anchors around when the planemeld has been stopped. Have a different instance for the map, where, instead of dark anchors, dragons were attacking, in the case of elsweyr, for those who already finished the classic storyline, because dragons are the current threat, and there are no more dark anchors.

That was my opinion, built over several years playing the game and growing frustrated over so much potential wasted. I know my solutions aren't the best, because server issues already being a problem, but oh well. In any case, I'd like to see if anyone agrees with me, has a similar opinion, or another opinion completely different about this subject.
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    If you play the DLC‘s in their release order, then each story takes place after The Dark Anchor invasion.
    We see this with Orsinium and all preceding stories.
    Vivec had a deal with molag bal that prevented him from interfering in Morrowind.
    The more recent regions don’t talk about the dark anchors because that event was 2-5 years ago, depending on the dlc releases date.

    Both Sai & Lyris explain why they’re back even if you pick them for sacrifice.
    You can look it up.

    There was an event in game where dragons left Elsweyr.
    However, the reason the dragon event was specific to that location was because their leader and that specific group had plans about obtaining the power of Jode.
    From their perspective there was no reason to leave as it was their opportunity to seize that territory.

    I understand that you want the rest of the world to move forward with the plot but that would not be fair to new players who are just getting into the game and don’t know the whole story.
    Also the base game still accounts for the majority of the content.

    So until Zenimax fills out the entire map, I don’t see a reason why they should update the base game with a new plot when the one they have in place is already good and took a long time to make.

    With that all said I think the game would benefit greatly from a story guide for new players or anyone who wishes to follow that guide. Just like each zone has a guide of things to accomplish.
    Because right now I see a lot of new players who have no idea what the story order is in a find themselves getting very confused.
  • MerguezMan
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    Dear OP,

    Your vision seems incomplete:
    - We have already visited almost all of Tamriel in "The Elders Scrolls : Arena", from Summerset isles to Vvardenfell.
    - We had more detailed visit of each region in Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
    - Cities you see in ESO are in their legacy place geographically (except how Eastmarch is displayed on the map).
    - The lore is pretty much set for past and future events.
    Once you accept this, check history books in any other game about the alliance war era, and you'll see very few details remained.

    Morrowind is ruled by Vivec alone, while Almalexia protects Mournhold, they may talk to each other, but would probably not talk about gods troubles with a simple mortal like the player.
    Vivec's powers declining is a fact kept secret. Baar Dau falling on the city is a commonly accepted possibility.
    ("Vivec allowed [Baar Dau] to remain looming above the city so that if its people ever ceased to love him, the rock would fall and destroy them." - https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Baar_Dau )
    Upon reaching Clockwork city, and then Summerset, Sotha Sil acknowledges your progress.

    There, storytelling was a bit disappointing, as we already knew Baar Dau would remain floating, and that Vivec and Sotha Sil were not really in danger. We players meet them later again in TES3. Lacks suspense.

    Summerset is not overrun by Daedras, but formerly by sloads and maormers, which is not surprising anyone due to a long story of reccurring invasions. Ayrenn would not show up in Summerset as she is still fighting other alliances for the control of Cyrodiil, before or after the end of the planemeld.

    The daedric war storyline was globally fine.

    Murkmire was a nice break, with entertaining lizardfolks story.

    Elsweyr... was answered in previous post.

    The most disappointing part was when the players falls asleep during the big climax exlposion (I won't spoil more there, but you'll understand what I'm talking about when you'll reach that point).

    Why would [your alliance's] king send you here or there, or be concerned ?
    - This is never your king's orders. Each DLC comes with an ambassador asking you for help in a way or another.
    - Your personal timeline is broken. If you go through Cadwell's Silver and Gold quests, you simultaneously joined the 3 alliances, and quested under each banner upon reaching Coldharbor.
    - You can consider DLC zones are open only to the relevant alliance, and you swap timelines appropriately when using shrines. It wouldn't make much sense to allow Daggerfall or Aldmeri citizens to enter Mournhold to access Clockwork city with a war going on.
    - The main issue is the concept of "One Tamriel" cannot be consistant with Alliance war logic. But I like to be able to explore all of it.

    You totally ignored returning characters for sidequests:
    - Lady Clarisse Laurent and her assistant are always a great moment (I guess Murkmire was their peak performance).
    - Rigurt the nord ambassador always knows what's best.
    - Martine (Peryite follower) made me LOL in Elsweyr.
    - Lots more if you take time to explore...

    That being said, the game also suffers from its MMO/solo schizophrenia:
    - You fight daedric princes (Molag Baal ...), Dragons (in Elsweyr main quests) almost alone or with a few sidequicks as a cakewalk, but have to team up for DLC dungeons or overland dragons.
    - Each single player can pretend to be THE champion of Meridia/Alkosh/Vivec/Azura/Whatever else that saved the world almost alone.
    Why, in case of another end-of-the-world-threat, wouldn't you be able to call on previous aedras allies and ask their power ? Because that would be game-breaking, ofc, but not doing so seems a bit overdoing it, story-wise, isn't it ?
  • Iccotak
    Iccotak
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    You fight daedric princes (Molag Baal ...), Dragons (in Elsweyr main quests) almost alone or with a few sidequicks as a cakewalk, but have to team up for DLC dungeons or overland dragons.

    There should be an optional group mode and/or hard solo mode for the story bosses, in my opinion.

    Personally I would like to see a trial for Kaalgrontiid at Dragonhold.
  • Eifleber
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    Must say that as a beginning player this is all one blur.

    As you can freely travel everywhere now and port whereever your guildies are, it took me months to get a sense of where I am and what exactly is happening.

    To me the alliance war more seems like a football/soccer competition and if you're not interested it doesn' t matter. Nobody blames you for not being a fan and nobody really cares all that much. Even worse: in some areas or delves your pact mates attack you (drunk hooligans?) and in some others some opposing faction asks for your help. Weird stuff.

    Must say that things like the need for skyshards (esp in the beginning you have a severe lack of skillpoints) and lore books to level your mage guild (meteor) very much encourages you to travel around the world and live from wayshrine to wayshrine without knowing where you are (the fact that maps don' t show adjacent provinces definitely doesn't help). Discovering new areas , points of interest and wayshrines also give LOADS of xp.

    All this doesn't exactly encourage players to play through a storyline, let alone do quests (which give very little xp per hour) and get a sense of the flavour of a region and its inhabitants. Especially for non-TES players like me it all doesn't make a lot of sense, lore wise. Only recently I have been doing the full Zone guide in some areas (Summerset, Vvardenfell and now Greymoor). I liked Vvardenfell the best and Summerset was the most humourous. Greymoor .. not that great in comparison (although the landscape and city of Solitude look awesome).

    What I would love to see is that each new character can start in a different starter quest/area and defaults in its racial zone. Even if it's just to get any idea of its own identity and the people it belongs to. When I started playing everyone had to start in N Elsewyr. Not very immersive for a Nord.
    *
    Edited by Eifleber on June 8, 2020 8:22AM

    Playing since dec 2019 | PC EU
  • Lysette
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    To me ESO's story couldn't be taken seriously from the very start - when ZOS introduced the imperial race at a time where there is no empire worth mentioning and permanently changing "emperors" with no empire to rule over. So ESO has been a theme park to me from the very start - and what does someone do in a theme park - raisin picking those contents one likes and ignoring all the others for now - like the faction war, because it is just kind of a game, not a war with significant outcome, there is no significance in any of this.

    And this feeling is supported because no faction NPC ever cares about where you are coming from outside of cyrodiil, the whole war thing is just a farce - a game for competitive people with no relevance whatsoever. So we are back to theme park and that is what ESO is - a fantasy theme park where you can select what you want to do and ignore all the rest. So why take it seriously - it wasn't serious from the very start and even before launch the main theme of the game was butchered by introducing the imperial race and making the faction war pointless with any race any faction - with a cosmopolitan world around a battle field for people with serious anger issues - this is how it looks from the outside - no pun intended here.

    well, and faction change tokens are just rounding up this picture - ESO is just a theme park - don't take it seriously.
    Edited by Lysette on June 8, 2020 7:44AM
  • MJallday
    MJallday
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    I don’t understand any of this. I just wanna kill
    Stuff
  • Lysette
    Lysette
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    MJallday wrote: »
    I don’t understand any of this. I just wanna kill
    Stuff

    welcome to the theme park then - q.e.d.
  • Lysette
    Lysette
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    Eifleber wrote: »
    Must say that as a beginning player this is all one blur.

    As you can freely travel everywhere now and port whereever your guildies are, it took me months to get a sense of where I am and what exactly is happening.

    To me the alliance war more seems like a football/soccer competition and if you're not interested it doesn' t matter. Nobody blames you for not being a fan and nobody really cares all that much. Even worse: in some areas or delves your pact mates attack you (drunk hooligans?) and in some others some opposing faction asks for your help. Weird stuff.

    Must say that things like the need for skyshards (esp in the beginning you have a severe lack of skillpoints) and lore books to level your mage guild (meteor) very much encourages you to travel around the world and live from wayshrine to wayshrine without knowing where you are (the fact that maps don' t show adjacent provinces definitely doesn't help). Discovering new areas , points of interest and wayshrines also give LOADS of xp.

    All this doesn't exactly encourage players to play through a storyline, let alone do quests (which give very little xp per hour) and get a sense of the flavour of a region. Especially for non-TES players like me it all doesn't make a lot of sense, lore wise. Only recently I have been doing the full Zone guide in some areas (Summerset, Vvardenfell and now Greymoor). I liked Vvardenfell the best and Summerset was the most humourous. Greymoor .. not that great in comparison (although the landscape and city of Solitude look awesome).

    What I would love to see is that each character can start a different starter quest/area and defaults in its racial zone. Even if it's to get any idea of its own identity and the people it belongs to. When I started playing everyone had to start in N Elsewyr. Not very immersive for a Nord.
    *

    some very good points in this.
  • MerguezMan
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    Eifleber wrote: »
    Must say that as a beginning player this is all one blur.

    Very true. Game should include a guide encouraging you to follow release order logic.

    You should have cleared it in this order:
    1) Alliance war storyline in your alliance (tuto island(s), then 5 zones in order)
    2) Cyrodiil and Imperial City
    3) Coldharbor and Craglorn
    4) Alliance war silver, then gold (broken timelines)
    5) Wrothgar, Hew'bane and Gold coast
    6) Vvardenfell, then Clockwork city, then Summerset
    7) Murkmire
    8) North then South Elsweyr
    Either you have very good memory, or you can follow these steps with another character, and can see it makes more sense.
    (your timeline is broken upon point 4 anyway, so...)

    As said previously, a fact we often forget is that wayshrines allow space AND time travel (without control on the time side of things).
    You can go back to Bleakrock island anytime, it will always be "the hour you left for Bal Foyen" there (assuming you cleared this zones quests).
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