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New trial sets are disappointing
MrBrownstone
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How do you expect to sell the new expansion if you don't make good trial sets? I guess you rely too much on the antiquities and the Skyrim nostalgia. That's not how it works. You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
I haven't seen anyone looking for Kyne's Aegis in Craglorn yet, everyone is still doing Sunspire and Cloudrest. You only managed to make one good set, a support set which was supposed to be a dd set and failed.
I'm trying to give helpful advice here, you should rework those sets to give people more incentive to buy the chapter and play the trial. I'm tired of using Vicious Ophidian and Leviathan on my magicka characters while stamina has so many interesting sets. Guess I'll have to wait and hope for the next DLC dungeon sets.
I haven't seen anyone looking for Kyne's Aegis in Craglorn yet, everyone is still doing Sunspire and Cloudrest. You only managed to make one good set, a support set which was supposed to be a dd set and failed.
I'm trying to give helpful advice here, you should rework those sets to give people more incentive to buy the chapter and play the trial. I'm tired of using Vicious Ophidian and Leviathan on my magicka characters while stamina has so many interesting sets. Guess I'll have to wait and hope for the next DLC dungeon sets.
5
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gatekeeper13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭This expansion was not made to add new "cool sets" in the game or decent story content.
It was to add grinding-mechanics that will make users spend more hours into playing ESO without actually playing any new or refreshing content. Antiquities is nothing more than an endless grinding mechanic.20 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...9 -
Moloch1514✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the sets were made based on changes to light/heavy attacks which failed miserably when they let us test those changes (LA to return resources and were nerfed significantly; HA for damage).......when they were forced to drop the change, the trial sets did not get updates to drop HA mechanics.PC-NA4 -
Mindcr0w✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Moloch1514 wrote: »I think the sets were made based on changes to light/heavy attacks which failed miserably when they let us test those changes (LA to return resources and were nerfed significantly; HA for damage).......when they were forced to drop the change, the trial sets did not get updates to drop HA mechanics.
Exactly this. They were clearly designed with those changes in mind, and ZOS either didn't have time to change the sets when those changes didn't go through, or they plan on revisiting those changes down the line.
My money is on the latter option.2 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...
Lokkestiiz was handled poorly because it is the best set in all group content, and killed War Machine entirely. IMO the Cloudrest sets were handled really well, since they are powerful but situational, and all 4 are useful in some way (at least now that Galanwe was buffed). Unfortunately all 4 of the Kyne’s Aegis sets have failed to be useful in their intended role. It just makes this stale, and removes the incentive to repeat content.5 -
xF1REFL1x✭✭✭They are a disappointment... I guess just going after the achievements will have to be enough this time around. Kind of surprised they didn't give them a update when the decision was made to not use light/heavy attack concept.0 -
xF1REFL1x✭✭✭I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...
I'm just gonna work on multiple sets for all my toons now... since nothing different is around the corner.1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...
Lokkestiiz was handled poorly because it is the best set in all group content, and killed War Machine entirely. IMO the Cloudrest sets were handled really well, since they are powerful but situational, and all 4 are useful in some way (at least now that Galanwe was buffed). Unfortunately all 4 of the Kyne’s Aegis sets have failed to be useful in their intended role. It just makes this stale, and removes the incentive to repeat content.
I bet if they buffed war machine and master architect to have a possible uptime of 100 % with very low cost ultimates, then lokke would not have this supreme status it has, and maybe consider reducing the spread to 1 player instead of 2, so it doesn't become just too strong.
Also, they should make perfected versions of old trials and dungeon sets, but please, don't just slap on minor slayer on every set.
Sets that never had it to begin with should not get it, because oversaturation.Edited by JinMori on June 4, 2020 5:44PM0 -
Raudgrani✭✭✭✭✭
✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...
Lokkestiiz was handled poorly because it is the best set in all group content, and killed War Machine entirely. IMO the Cloudrest sets were handled really well, since they are powerful but situational, and all 4 are useful in some way (at least now that Galanwe was buffed). Unfortunately all 4 of the Kyne’s Aegis sets have failed to be useful in their intended role. It just makes this stale, and removes the incentive to repeat content.
Pretty spot on, don't know about the new sets I might add. Haven't even read what they give/do. Relequen is a very good set, it's like easily best for single target, while being way behind for example good old TFS on trash mobs etc. (yet, everyone is like "You no Rele?! Whyy! Get Rele! For every content, every time, eveywhere!"). I'd go TFS over Relequen in arenas for example, every day of the week, just like I would go Rele over TFS for Asylum Sanctorium every day of the week. Sets like Warmachine are simply outdated, and left in the dark. They are only good if people lack Lokke I guess.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭yea, they were told numerous times in every PTS cycle how bad the trial sets were, they didn't listen.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC5 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »I'm actually a bit pleased/relieved to hear that new trial sets are not "BiS" and "must have". I have just managed to get the current best trial sets for the toons who need them (yes, I didn't do much or any PVE util like 2 months ago).
I think largely, the hysteria surrounding sets kind of needs to go. It's like a bit of the disease of the modern world, the idea of "constant progress" isn't a valid idea. If there were like a few sets that were comparable, it would be great. It feels kind of stupid to enter a trial, and every mag DD and stam DD wear their respective sets, a constant wave of "Wroaar!'ing" bears where stam DD's are. It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...
Lokkestiiz was handled poorly because it is the best set in all group content, and killed War Machine entirely. IMO the Cloudrest sets were handled really well, since they are powerful but situational, and all 4 are useful in some way (at least now that Galanwe was buffed). Unfortunately all 4 of the Kyne’s Aegis sets have failed to be useful in their intended role. It just makes this stale, and removes the incentive to repeat content.
Pretty spot on, don't know about the new sets I might add. Haven't even read what they give/do. Relequen is a very good set, it's like easily best for single target, while being way behind for example good old TFS on trash mobs etc. (yet, everyone is like "You no Rele?! Whyy! Get Rele! For every content, every time, eveywhere!"). I'd go TFS over Relequen in arenas for example, every day of the week, just like I would go Rele over TFS for Asylum Sanctorium every day of the week. Sets like Warmachine are simply outdated, and left in the dark. They are only good if people lack Lokke I guess.
The problem i have with relequen is exactly because it's so good at st that it gives the illusion stamina is better, it really isn't, if magicka also had a relequen like set stam would get ***. And i feel like they take sets like rele into consideration when balancing for pve dps. And i take issue with that, so what they should do in my opinion is make a relequen like set for magicka, and then bring stam up to par.
I got 81k on dummy on mag plar with sets like bsw, with no vampire and sweeps, no way i am getting that with similar sets for stamina, and in general magicka is just above in terms of damage for me, now that i have lokkestiz, some classes started to catch up, but don;t fool yourself, lokke is not the st carry set, that's relequen.
If magicka had such great specialized sets like rele....
Also, tfs is an underrated set, when i wear it they always ask me, "BUT DO YOU OVERPEN?!" No, just adjust your cp levels, do you overpen on magicka? No you don't.
But yea, in my opinion, damage passives like armor skillines, those should be standardized, both should have pen and weapon/spell damage respectively. Those passives are just there to increase your output, nothing else. You can keep the differences in how those skillines function outside of damage, like acrobatics etc... But damage iteself shoud be standardized.Edited by JinMori on June 4, 2020 6:54PM0 -
Alchimiste1✭✭✭✭✭
✭That’s because when they designed the sets they fully expected to go through with the light and heavy attack changes but didn’t follow through because of the overwhelming negative feedback. And for whatever reason they never reworked the new trial sets.
On a side note , bring back animation cancelling, delete cast time on ults, bring back bash damage, new range server checks are horrid , revert it. TyEdited by Alchimiste1 on June 4, 2020 7:31PM0 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭well the situation would look different if they went through with the heavy attack changes that i liked but a majority didnt so i guess its rather the better alternative having sets that are not op right now vs. them implementing changes a large portion of the community did not appreciate...0 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭gatekeeper13 wrote: »This expansion was not made to add new "cool sets" in the game or decent story content.
It was to add grinding-mechanics that will make users spend more hours into playing ESO without actually playing any new or refreshing content. Antiquities is nothing more than an endless grinding mechanic.
Actually, its pretty finite.
You can level up the skill lines in about 15 hours, maybe less.
You can collect all the mythics in probably about a week or less.
The furniture items aren't that hard to find. Get the ones you want for your house.
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tweedledum✭✭so many sets in this game are disappointing, would not expect it for this type of content (especially from a Chapter)2
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Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭Perfected Yandir's Might is pretty much fine for pvp purposes. The other sets look good in general, people just have not yet found an approach to them. Also it is possible that ZOS will return to HA/LA changes.
At least these new sets look way more promising than Eye of Nahviintaas, old Aegis of Galenwe or Inventor's Guard/Automated Defense (do you even remember these sets?).Everything is viable0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Perfected Yandir's Might is pretty much fine for pvp purposes. The other sets look good in general, people just have not yet found an approach to them. Also it is possible that ZOS will return to HA/LA changes.
At least these new sets look way more promising than Eye of Nahviintaas, old Aegis of Galenwe or Inventor's Guard/Automated Defense (do you even remember these sets?).
No amount of approach will make opportunist good as it is right now. And yandir was never intended to be pvp, so i would say that's a fail from a design prospective then.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »How do you expect to sell the new expansion if you don't make good trial sets?
I am not arguing about the trial sets. However, I do question the premise the OP opened with.
I do not raid to get geared out. I raid because I enjoy the group challenge of doing well with clearing the content. Even when the gear is desirable I am still raising well after I have more of the new gear than I need.
In other words, I do not see the point in raiding for gear that is only useful in PvE instanced content as one of the set bonuses does not useful outside of instanced PvE content.0 -
Ladislao✭✭✭✭✭
A very bold statement. You cannot know for sure.No amount of approach will make opportunist good as it is right now.
How did you find out about this? I can agree that Vicious Death or Impregnable Armor were not intended to be pve (because their key bonuses do not work there) but Perfected Yandir's Might looks like it was not intended for any particular mode.And yandir was never intended to be pvp, so i would say that's a fail from a design prospective then.
[snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 5, 2020 5:22PMEverything is viable1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »How do you expect to sell the new expansion if you don't make good trial sets?
I am not arguing about the trial sets. However, I do question the premise the OP opened with.
I do not raid to get geared out. I raid because I enjoy the group challenge of doing well with clearing the content. Even when the gear is desirable I am still raising well after I have more of the new gear than I need.
In other words, I do not see the point in raiding for gear that is only useful in PvE instanced content as one of the set bonuses does not useful outside of instanced PvE content.
Bad sets greatly impact the replayability of content, that's just a fact, why do you think that people still run certain dungeons or trials more than others? It's because better gear, good content is important, but you need a good reward to go with it, otherwise people will not play it for long.
Just consider this, look at how few kyne's aegis trial groups there are compared to ss or cr, ON RELEASE, just absolutely insane. The preferences of players are evident, and it doesn't even look like kyne's aegis is such a good raid, so....4 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
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A very bold statement. You cannot know for sure.No amount of approach will make opportunist good as it is right now.
How did you find out about this? I can agree that Vicious Death or Impregnable Armor were not intended to be pve (because their key bonuses do not work there) but Perfected Yandir's Might looks like it was not intended for any particular mode.And yandir was never intended to be pvp, so i would say that's a fail from a design prospective then.
[snip]
Dude, wtf? Yandir's might has minor slayer on it, something that works only on pve mobs in instanced content, if that's not enough to make you think that it was designed as a pve set, i don;t know what is, people just found out that it works out pretty well in pvp, but it was not designed for pvp.
And so much testing done on roaring opportunist, we just know for a fact that it's bad at this point, and since the buff applies to everyone it's not a dd set, but support, and they completely blew it, to fully benefit from this set, you would have to hit about 90 k heavy attacks to do that you would have to sacrifice so much damage it's not worth it.
The set is bad, [snip]
And your quote "everything is viable" just gives it away to me that you don't have any idea what you are talking about, so that's about it. There isn't anything to add, get informed first, and then talk, don't pretend that you know better.
[Edited to remove Baiting]Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on June 5, 2020 5:23PM5 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...MrBrownstone wrote: »You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
Content Creators and the concept of "bis" are too much of a problem.
Do people even think for themselves anymore? Have any more interest in discovery and finding solutions for themselves?
Even before the expansion went live the solutions for the trials and dungeons are available and the group just goes through the motions of following what someone else tells you to do.
After all, they already tell you how to dress (sets) and what to eat (food and potions).
How about players stop living in the Content Creator's basement for a change and only go there when they are genuinely stuck?
Absolutely ZOS should support power fantasy and the roleplaying game aspect of ESO first instead of looking too much at numbers. Once the need for bis is deprecated people can stop watching youtube solutions more than they play the game.Edited by Dusk_Coven on June 4, 2020 9:56PM1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...MrBrownstone wrote: »You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
Content Creators and the concept of "bis" are too much of a problem.
Do people even think for themselves anymore? Have any more interest in discovery and finding solutions for themselves?
Even before the expansion went live the solutions for the trials and dungeons are available and the group just goes through the motions of following what someone else tells you to do.
After all, they already tell you how to dress (sets) and what to eat (food and potions).
How about players stop living in the Content Creator's basement for a change and only go there when they are genuinely stuck?
Lol, no, it's called math. That's about it, no amount of thinking for yourself will make you do more damage than having siroria if you can keep up the stacks, that's about it.
You know why? Because 600 spell damage up 100 % of the time is better than anything else. Mathematics.Edited by JinMori on June 4, 2020 9:56PM3 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...MrBrownstone wrote: »You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
Content Creators and the concept of "bis" are too much of a problem.
Do people even think for themselves anymore? Have any more interest in discovery and finding solutions for themselves?
Even before the expansion went live the solutions for the trials and dungeons are available and the group just goes through the motions of following what someone else tells you to do.
After all, they already tell you how to dress (sets) and what to eat (food and potions).
How about players stop living in the Content Creator's basement for a change and only go there when they are genuinely stuck?
Lol, no, it's called math. That's about it, no amount of thinking for yourself will make you do more damage than having siroria if you can keep up the stacks, that's about it.
You know why? Because 600 spell damage up 100 % of the time is better than anything else. Mathematics.
You here to play ESO or play math?
Edited by Dusk_Coven on June 4, 2020 9:59PM4 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...MrBrownstone wrote: »You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
Content Creators and the concept of "bis" are too much of a problem.
Do people even think for themselves anymore? Have any more interest in discovery and finding solutions for themselves?
Even before the expansion went live the solutions for the trials and dungeons are available and the group just goes through the motions of following what someone else tells you to do.
After all, they already tell you how to dress (sets) and what to eat (food and potions).
How about players stop living in the Content Creator's basement for a change and only go there when they are genuinely stuck?
Lol, no, it's called math. That's about it, no amount of thinking for yourself will make you do more damage than having siroria if you can keep up the stacks, that's about it.
You know why? Because 600 spell damage up 100 % of the time is better than anything else. Mathematics.
You here to play ESO or play math?
Irrelevant to the argument of what is the best. If you are gonna try to go down this road, i'm just not gonna reply anymore, that's about it.Edited by JinMori on June 4, 2020 10:03PM6 -
Recent✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nord boat furnishing is only obtainable by doing kyne's Aegis on vet achieves so i'd like to know how anyone is supposed to acquire said furnishing if noone wants to run the dungeon even on normal3 -
TheSeraphim✭✭✭ZOS found out they have more space in the "Useless Set" vault.
It is nice they changed some of the monster helms like Nerien'eth to make them more viable but how about doing a large sweep through the 5 piece sets to give some niche/"roleplay" builds more viability? Some of these sets are clearly 5 years out of date with how the game functions at a basic level or are just X set but worse.
When there are sets designed for certain damage types and sets like Julianos are still better for builds centered around that damage type something is wrong.1 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »It would be great if there was room for a little more variety, and actually being more creative than farming Lokkestiiz, Relequen and Selene - and if you are not wearing that, people will try to talk you into doing it. I don't fancy that stuff...MrBrownstone wrote: »You make useful trial sets, popular content creators put them in their builds and people want to farm them.
Content Creators and the concept of "bis" are too much of a problem.
Do people even think for themselves anymore? Have any more interest in discovery and finding solutions for themselves?
Even before the expansion went live the solutions for the trials and dungeons are available and the group just goes through the motions of following what someone else tells you to do.
After all, they already tell you how to dress (sets) and what to eat (food and potions).
How about players stop living in the Content Creator's basement for a change and only go there when they are genuinely stuck?
Lol, no, it's called math. That's about it, no amount of thinking for yourself will make you do more damage than having siroria if you can keep up the stacks, that's about it.
You know why? Because 600 spell damage up 100 % of the time is better than anything else. Mathematics.
You here to play ESO or play math?
Irrelevant to the argument of what is the best. If you are gonna try to go down this road, i'm just not gonna reply anymore, that's about it.
That's not even about the original post.
The OP is demanding a new BIS with every expansion. I'm saying that's neither valid nor necessary in the wider context of ESO the game.
The concept of and need for BIS is a player created problem and ZOS doesn't have to solve that. Especially when BIS is selected by content creators and players let someone else do all their thinking for them. Those players might as well just watch the content creators stream.Edited by Dusk_Coven on June 4, 2020 10:41PM4 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MrBrownstone wrote: »I haven't seen anyone looking for Kyne's Aegis in Craglorn yet, everyone is still doing Sunspire and Cloudrest. You only managed to make one good set, a support set which was supposed to be a dd set and failed.
If this is true, then are people doing trials just for gear? Not achievements? Satisfaction? Fun of doing trials?
Might as well stop making new trials. Gear can be locked behind any content -- even fishing -- so the need for trials to gatekeep gear is unnecessary.
If you wanted to argue that the new trial wasn't fun -- that's a much more valid discussion.Edited by Dusk_Coven on June 4, 2020 10:45PM0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, if the rewards are not worth the time taken to do them, then yes.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.0
This discussion has been closed.