Does WW really suck that bad......

Joxer61 · June 2020

That people are ashamed of being one and hide the fact they play it? Now, coming from a pve only POV, but seriously, whats the deal? WW got some major love this patch (imo, im a noob so that means f'all) and yet it seems folks are scared or shamed to play one? Why? Because one of the "meta boys" hasn't put out a dummy hump video of them doing 90k plus?
But really guys....I would have thought people (meaning those content creator dudes) would have jumped on the fact that they got buffed. I have seen the tank ones, and for some reason people are pumped to play one as a tank...really??...ah well. But for raw dps from what I have tried and seen, the hit freakin hard guys! So whats the deal? Is everyone that scared of a being a "meme" class that you avoid it? Boo...and I for one am leveling one and having a blast...and I reckon that's all that matters right? Just a shame others aren't doing the same...and I mean in reference to like the ESO Logs, of which WW is non-existent…..sad really.
For all its damage Vampire still seems like a bit of a pain in the butt yet everyone and their cousin is playing one.....why...because it was shown by those guys? .....meh.
Ah well, I shall step off my soapbox...'nuff said.

(again, speaking PVE only here guys)

Stx · June 2020

The patch just dropped. Give people some time to level/gear up a WW toon. Oh and there are 90k+ parse videos of werewolves on YouTube, I guess you didnt look hard enough 🤔

Joxer61 · June 2020

Stx wrote: »

The patch just dropped. Give people some time to level/gear up a WW toon. Oh and there are 90k+ parse videos of werewolves on YouTube, I guess you didnt look hard enough 🤔

nah...dummy humps does not equate to game play. And also a lot, not all, but a lot of them are pvp...not my bag. But yea.....I reckon see what comes out in the wash in a few weeks.....

Michaelkeir · June 2020

I see them from time to time...but not many. The few I do see are just pitiful and are just swinging wildly hardly doing any damage. When I ask the few I see(politely) what sets they are running I get hit with insults or silence.

I run mine regularly and he is geared and themed for max damage in WW form. But due to long wait times in group finder I just run my tanks.

Mortiis13 · June 2020

Definitely want to try ww on my stam ward in pve and pvp. But atm I grind through greymoor and candy crush with my vampmagmancer ;P

DocFrost72 · June 2020

The reason you don't see people choosing werewolf is because of its drawbacks (this is a purely pve perspective, keep that in mind).

-Werewolf single target dps was lower than any other stamina class. That meant turning into a werewolf was a dps loss at top tier (vet hm score runs, essentially). Full disclosure; I have seen nothing of live ww builds post Greymoor. This could very well have changed.

-Werewolf selfhealing is abysmal in solo content. Things like vMA, or soloing dungeons/world bosses are actually harder in werewolf form than a medium armor class with access to all non ww skills. Vigor is the biggest offender, but brawler is a close second. Not to mention that claws of life is an unreliable heal. If the target dies or becomes immune to damage, you lose any healing from it. It is designed the same way as blood craze, which would never be used as a primary source of healing for its unreliability.

-Werewolves have bad aoe damage. Stamina toons in general have access to a wide variety of great abilities for aoe dots, ground dots, and spammables. In fact, every weapon line but sword and shield has access to an aoe dot. Throw in class abilities like warden fetcher flies and shalks, or hurricane, or the stamcro siphon. Werewolves had exactly one aoe capability; claws of life (if you're running infectious claws in pve, I only ask why). You could take pounce's new conal prompt morph, but I have yet to see how it performs. In addition, it is neither a ground dot nor an aoe dot.

-Managing werewolf is a play style not everyone can get behind. Yes, good players can infinitely remain in form, so long as there is combat, absolutely. Doing so requires a certain enjoyment from frenetic, constantly in your face gameplay. Not all players want that, and losing werewolf form in between fights is enough for some folks to choose a class that works 100% of the time and doesn't drop if you need to take a few seconds to loot a chest, or listen to NPC dialogue.

I personally solo dungeons a lot. I like slightly chonky dps. I like to build things that have multiple stacking sources of mitigation, such as maim, high resistances, and typically the brawler damage shield while still pulling 25k dps. Werewolf sounds perfect for this, right?

Vigor outperforms claws of life 9 times out of ten, I can take things slow in human form, and I have access to better aoe for trash or grouped mobs during boss fights (the latter-most actually just making me unkillable). So I do not play werewolf because of the nature of the fast paced, breakneck speed game play (which for some is fun and I do not disparage them for that!), and because I am actually more survivable outside of form.

Hope that helped answer your questions.

Corrected: Blade cloak isn't quite a "ground aoe"

colossalvoids · June 2020

There should be 95k+ vids now, example skinnycheeks. Give ordinary players some time to react. But again, eso logs are representative only for a small amount of organised groups which commonly don't use ww, or don't log runs that of that value/keep them closed.

Joxer61 · June 2020

DocFrost72 wrote: »

sniped for space

That right there is some of the BEST feedback/info I have gotten over this whole WW thing!! thank you very much for that insight and information, huge help it was!!
You answer many a question I had in regards to WW so will now look at it in a new light. Thanks again!!

MudcrabAttack · June 2020

They have hit 95k in Graymoor though, the playstyle has vastly changed from light attack spam

https://youtu.be/JWE5QjCblm8

There are a couple things about the parse that might be considered cheese, it relies on 6 seconds of self applied major berserk, which must be cast while at full health or you wind up just healing yourself. Also you get more damage by standing in front of a target for the enhanced damage to the howl, otherwise most people are better off in back to avoid boss one shots.

There's a lot of AOE now. Pounce/brutal carnage/ claws and heavy attavks are all AOE now. There's a ton of weapon damage multipliers to go with it all. You don't need weapon power/major savagery potions since all that is built in.

Mr_Wolfe · June 2020

Werewolf has always been kind of a niche spec, even when it's performing well. It doesn't help that it plays very differently from most builds, so a lot of veteran players who try to evaluate Werewolf like a normal stam dps end up dismissing it. That's been going on long enough to put werewolves permanently in the doghouse as far as most of the community is concerned, but even before the Greymoor changes there have been folks soloing vet content on werewolves and wreaking so much havoc in PvP that at least one person made an entire guild dedicated to trying to take down werewolf groups in the Imperial City.

Heck, I got my first vet maelstrom clear on a werewolf--after the nerfs came down. It's good to be a bit more competitive now though. I'm looking forward to seeing what these new changes bring to the table.

TLDR: Werewolf has never sucked, but it does have a bad reputation due to it's unorthodox playstyle and the learning curve associated with it.

Oh, and PS: "Light Attack Spam" has never been the most effective way to run a werewolf. The old Kena+Bloodmoon+Relequen setup was mainly good for cheesing dummy parses and didn't hold up as well in actual content.

yodased · June 2020

My boy just did his first flawless on a blood moon ww. I would say its fine

MashmalloMan · June 2020

Joxer61 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

sniped for space

That right there is some of the BEST feedback/info I have gotten over this whole WW thing!! thank you very much for that insight and information, huge help it was!!
You answer many a question I had in regards to WW so will now look at it in a new light. Thanks again!!

Were you being sarcastic when you wrote this because their actual post was actually all of the things you said and not a troll post. The quote in your comment shows they were just reserving the comment space to type out their lengthy response.

Just curious because your comment can be taken 100% sarcastically, but it's also applicable to the real comment.

Joxer61 · June 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Joxer61 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

sniped for space

That right there is some of the BEST feedback/info I have gotten over this whole WW thing!! thank you very much for that insight and information, huge help it was!!
You answer many a question I had in regards to WW so will now look at it in a new light. Thanks again!!

Were you being sarcastic when you wrote this because their actual post was actually all of the things you said and not a troll post. The quote in your comment shows they were just reserving the comment space to type out their lengthy response.

Just curious because your comment can be taken 100% sarcastically, but it's also applicable to the real comment.

nope, meant every word, not being sarcastic in any way. Sad people have to read into things like that, a complimant can sometimes be just that.

Grianasteri · June 2020

I am just an average player, and my relatively new, not optimised WW, can pull 60k dps, without even trying.

No, they are not rubbish. They are fun and enjoyable.
.

Goregrinder · June 2020

The past few patches saw nerfs to WW significant enough to pull WW DPS in PVE from like 70k range down to like 50k range. Because of that, WW's would get kicked because that's 20k less DPS the group now has on average on most boss fights. So because of that, people probably didn't advertise to their groups they were running a ww build. I really don't know.

But this isn't the last few patches...this is Greymoor. WW got buffed. Like...actual buffs. Like 70k-90k parses wearing the same build as last patch. I imagine it will get even higher once people start trying new set combos on their builds.

Mr_Wolfe · June 2020

Goregrinder wrote: »

The past few patches saw nerfs to WW significant enough to pull WW DPS in PVE from like 70k range down to like 50k range. Because of that, WW's would get kicked because that's 20k less DPS the group now has on average on most boss fights. So because of that, people probably didn't advertise to their groups they were running a ww build. I really don't know.

Which is funny because I'm willing to bet most players don't do nearly that much damage, especially in actual content as opposed to dummy parses. On the other hand, werewolf can be a great tool for helping a less skilled player break into the 20-30k range with a less demanding rotation than most stam dps. Which is all you really need to complete most vet dungeons and trials. Heck, I can solo most vet dungeons with a ~20k dps. Anything over 30k is basically just vanity.

That said, I'm looking forward to running some incredibly vain werewolf builds this patch.