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Bringing Old Trial Sets up to par.
MindOfTheSwarm
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Just occurred to me that old trial sets don't offer or stand up to what a lot of more recent sets do.
I mean Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior and others all drop in trials and yet do not offer the main buff that more recent trials sets do. Minor Slayer.
Why not change them and update them in keeping with sets like Relequen and others?
Something like this as just one example:
Poisonous Serpent:
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against an enemy who has a Poison Damage ability on them, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 3400 Poison Damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Perfected Poisonous Serpent:
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage, When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against an enemy who has a Poison Damage ability on them, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 3400 Poison Damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Thoughts?
I mean Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior and others all drop in trials and yet do not offer the main buff that more recent trials sets do. Minor Slayer.
Why not change them and update them in keeping with sets like Relequen and others?
Something like this as just one example:
Poisonous Serpent:
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against an enemy who has a Poison Damage ability on them, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 3400 Poison Damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Perfected Poisonous Serpent:
2 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
3 items: Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
4 items: Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
5 items: Adds 129 Weapon Damage, When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against an enemy who has a Poison Damage ability on them, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 3400 Poison Damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Thoughts?
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VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thoughts?
People will complain about having to regrind old vet trials to get perfected versions of their current gear.3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's hard to improve old sets without a more thorough rework. For one, old core trials already had -some- sort of baby-steps into having perfected/imperfect system - the sets the have 'little brothers', like Immortal Warrior is a weaker version of Eternal Warrior, and the weaker sets don't have Minor Slayer by design. So it would make things more complicated with their elder brothers.
Sure, perfected system would help, but it has own flaws. For one upgrading weapons without upgrading content is already something everyone's up in arms about, and rightly so. For another, in many cases it won't even be enough to revitalize old content. Making perfected Master Architect won't make sense unless ZOS will decide not to murder it with Roaring Opportunist; make perfected MA, and it still won't make vHoF more attractive to run if RO will grow viable. They keep cannibalizing old sets, so simply improving their stats won't help the case.1 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »Thoughts?
People will complain about having to regrind old vet trials to get perfected versions of their current gear.
Suppose this is true. Can't argue with that. But do people really use them that much. I know Berserking Warrior is top tier, but its usually paired with a set like Relequen so there would be no need to farm it again. Unless of course, a player wanted to wear it with a different set and keep the Minor Slayer. All I am saying is, it updates them and gives further options for endgame build diversity.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭Dont the craglorn sets have two versions now? One with minor slayer and one with out?
Im against buffing the weaker ones because they are currently viable for pvp more or less. And if you add minor slayer and similar bonuses they no longer would be.
For example there is infal and wise mage. One has minor slayer one does not.
Ther are lesser sets also aavailable that dont have a minor slayer variant such as destructive mage. But i equate those as being the equivalent to a zone set drop, and a relic of when they still hadnt figured out what they wanted to do with trials, and how they wanted to balance gear out of them
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MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dont the craglorn sets have two versions now? One with minor slayer and one with out?
Im against buffing the weaker ones because they are currently viable for pvp more or less. And if you add minor slayer and similar bonuses they no longer would be.
For example there is infal and wise mage. One has minor slayer one does not.
Ther are lesser sets also aavailable that dont have a minor slayer variant such as destructive mage. But i equate those as being the equivalent to a zone set drop, and a relic of when they still hadnt figured out what they wanted to do with trials, and how they wanted to balance gear out of them
That is another point. Some of those sets give Minor Vulnerability, but why run those sets when most classes have access to this debuff?
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YandereGirlfriend✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Thoughts?
People will complain about having to regrind old vet trials to get perfected versions of their current gear.
This situation is NOT directly analogous to the vMA situation though.
To get a Maelstrom weapon you, by definition, had to beat veteran Maelstrom Arena. Every weapon owner has already completed the content at its highest possible level. That is why it makes little logical sense to map current weapons to the normal mode reward. They are ex post facto breaking the game's design principle that higher difficulty maps to higher rewards, when multiple qualities of an item exists.
For Lorkaj, Halls of Fab, and the Craglorn trials, no such mapping exists because there is only one set of those trial sets. So automatically upgrading existing sets to Perfected does not make sense, as you would inadvertently be rewarding normal mode players with veteran mode rewards. Players who came by their sets via veteran mode would be casualties, it's true, but since there is no way (at least that I know of...) to differentiate their sets from those of normal mode owners, ties should be broken in favor of maintaining exclusivity.
So on the one hand, we all know the provenance of current vMA weapons and the content in question is not changing. To maintain design consistency they ought to be upgraded to the new veteran reward. OTOH, with the older trial sets we can have no such certainty regarding their origins, and, as such, they should not be upgraded.1 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
I do not want my gear that took me forever to farm to be nerfed only so I have to regrind it out for PeRFecTed versions.1 -
LeHarrt91✭✭✭✭✭
✭Poisonous Serpent 3 piece is weapon damage isnt it? not Minor Slayer.
I re-read, your wanting to add Slayer to them, right?Edited by LeHarrt91 on May 26, 2020 1:06AMPS NA
Have played all classes.
Warden Main0 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
I do not want my gear that took me forever to farm to be nerfed only so I have to regrind it out for PeRFecTed versions.
What?
May I introduce you to False God's Devotion and Vicious Serpent.
Non-Perfected False God's Devotion (New DLC Trial):
(2 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage, Reduces the cost of your Magicka Abilities by 8%. When you kill an enemy, you restore 2150 Magicka and gain Major Expedition for 8 seconds, increasing your Movement Speed by 30%.
Vicious Serpent (Base Game Trial):
(2 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(3 items) Gain Minor Slayer at all times, increasing your damage done to Dungeon, Trial, and Arena Monsters by 5%.
(4 items) Adds 833 Weapon Critical
(5 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage, Reduces the cost of your Stamina Abilities by 8%. When an enemy you have recently damaged dies, you restore 2150 Stamina and gain Major Expedition for 8 seconds, increasing your Movement Speed by 30%.
There is already 2 sets that share the exact same stats, but released in different era's of ESO's set design philosophy. Perfected vs Non-Perfected is the standard, old sets SHOULD be updated just like VMA and VDSA. The old method of having a crappy set like Quick Serpent and the better version in Vicious Serpent was never used again because it was poorly designed to begin with.
All the weaker sets like Quick Serpent are never used or recommended today and weren't when they were released. Vicious Serpent doesn't even need to be obtained from Vet giving little to no reason to run them. Your "Vicious Serpent" set is already considered a Non-Perfected version of False God's. The Perfected False God's adds 1096 Maximum, so the Perfected Vicious Serpent set should provide 1096 Stamina.
Nothing is nerfed, your sets stay the same, but if you want, you can go out and farm a better version in Vet base game trials, as it should be.Edited by MashmalloMan on May 26, 2020 1:32AM2 -
NoodleESO✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: ».
Nothing is nerfed, your sets stay the same, but if you want, you can go out and farm a better version in Vet base game trials, as it should be.
Rightttt since when has that ever happened? Combat team: "Good news guys, we know you like these sets and we made them even stronger with no strings attached! Go have fun!"
Never
Never in the history of this game has that ever hapepened.1 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MashmalloMan wrote: ».
Nothing is nerfed, your sets stay the same, but if you want, you can go out and farm a better version in Vet base game trials, as it should be.
Rightttt since when has that ever happened? Combat team: "Good news guys, we know you like these sets and we made them even stronger with no strings attached! Go have fun!"
Never
Never in the history of this game has that ever hapepened.
What are you on about? They literally just did that for Greymoor. Most of the sets are exactly the same, some received huge buffs, while the perfected versions just got an additional stat line. The only complaint being we all farmed Vet content so the items we have should be upgraded to the new Vet variants.
To the few... RIP Master(still great, just in a different way) and Asylum Staff.
Vicious Serpent is not a Vet set anyway, it's a normal set. I never once stepped in vet to earn my pieces. It's already imperfect when compared to False God's, it can only go up from here.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Dont the craglorn sets have two versions now? One with minor slayer and one with out?
Im against buffing the weaker ones because they are currently viable for pvp more or less. And if you add minor slayer and similar bonuses they no longer would be.
For example there is infal and wise mage. One has minor slayer one does not.
Ther are lesser sets also aavailable that dont have a minor slayer variant such as destructive mage. But i equate those as being the equivalent to a zone set drop, and a relic of when they still hadnt figured out what they wanted to do with trials, and how they wanted to balance gear out of them
That is another point. Some of those sets give Minor Vulnerability, but why run those sets when most classes have access to this debuff?
Well its still a convenient source of it albeit somewhat redundant now. I could see them being buffed in general just to keep up with current sets.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »MashmalloMan wrote: ».
Nothing is nerfed, your sets stay the same, but if you want, you can go out and farm a better version in Vet base game trials, as it should be.
Rightttt since when has that ever happened? Combat team: "Good news guys, we know you like these sets and we made them even stronger with no strings attached! Go have fun!"
Never
Never in the history of this game has that ever hapepened.
What are you on about? They literally just did that for Greymoor. Most of the sets are exactly the same, some received huge buffs, while the perfected versions just got an additional stat line. The only complaint being we all farmed Vet content so the items we have should be upgraded to the new Vet variants.
To the few... RIP Master(still great, just in a different way) and Asylum Staff.
Vicious Serpent is not a Vet set anyway, it's a normal set. I never once stepped in vet to earn my pieces. It's already imperfect when compared to False God's, it can only go up from here.
This is a fair point. Currently there is no 'real' advantage to farming set pieces in old trials apart from quality. This is the argument, it would give players a reason to go out and do vet on old trials again. But my larger point was the other sets you get in the trials. So it would make sense for sets like Poisonous Serpent to also be classed as a 'trial' set. Then again, if people don't agree, then fair enough.0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because its fine the way it is? Poisonous Serpent is a pretty decent entry-level PVP set:(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(3 items) Adds 129 Weapon Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Stamina
(5 items) When you deal damage with a Light or Heavy Attack against an enemy who has a Poison Damage ability on them, you have a 50% chance to deal an additional 3400 Poison Damage. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Yeah, its not one of the "meta" PVP builds, but you can have some fun with it.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Considering OP is using a set from HRC I would suggest the Craglorn trials are too easy.0 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭VaranisArano wrote: »Thoughts?
People will complain about having to regrind old vet trials to get perfected versions of their current gear.
no ppl wont complain, IF Zos only lets those perfected sets drop from the HMs of the respective trial.
just let the Endboss dropp 1 Weapon and 1-2 Armorpieces of the perfected set, and its fine.
Th eothe rpoint made, with minor slayer is a fair requestPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Zippy81✭✭✭IMO the minor slayer buff isn't needed there. You can use sets like NMA and Mother's sorrow and get high numbers without minor slayer.
I like these sets as they are. Try to pair Celerity and VO and you'll get a remedy for expensive vampirism.
If you want to have a stronger Poisonous Serpent set, make it proc every 0.5 second instead. A PVP set for now.
Berserking Warrior is a heavy armor set so that you could use a high crit tanky build, again can be used in PVP.
There are so many new sets outperforming any of those old sets that ZoS won't bother. I think.
I'm not worried about lack of minor slayer. I'm more worried about too much of major slayer on so many sets.Kind regards,
Zippy0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »Thoughts?
People will complain about having to regrind old vet trials to get perfected versions of their current gear.
That's clearly not a concern for ZOS.You want the new thing, farm it - heh1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What would be better is if the new trial sets were brought up to par
My thoughts exactly, it would be nice if there was a reason to visit KA more than once.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
He means that the trials are too easy to warrant "buffing" the sets that drop from them. Problem is it's not really a buff for most setups since most end game players are already running sets with Minor Slayer, and these sets definitely don't need to be nerfed.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
He means that the trials are too easy to warrant "buffing" the sets that drop from them. Problem is it's not really a buff for most setups since most end game players are already running sets with Minor Slayer, and these sets definitely don't need to be nerfed.
In part I can see that point, but there are many cases now where the reward (applicable bis-ness
) outweighs the challenge to acquire. I don't think the difficulty of Craglorn trials should have any influence on whether they deserve a buff. The issue is more as you state it, current/recent gear has made these sets redundant by design, and their application is narrow because of the time and climate of the game when they were introduced to it, and therefor buffing them serves no purpose. 0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Septimus_Magna wrote: »
I would love to see the completion numbers on VKA vs VSS at the end of the first 6 months.Playing since beta...0
