ZOS don't deserve so much hate

MikeSkyrim333 · May 2020

English is not my native language, russian is, so excuse me in advance for mistakes

I have been playing this game since beta and I know that there were a lot of problems in this game, but remember how much fun this game brought to you

Yes, optimization is not good, there are spikes, delays, loading screens, but with every patch game become a little better. And I won't discuss about balance of classes, because other MMORPG games showed that it is almost impossible to make perfect balance

I think if it were so easy to make the game perfectly optimized, ZOS would go in that direction, but apparently, fixing all the problems forever is not so easy as it seems to us, because we are not game developers, right?

There are no game in the world 100% without bugs and perfectly stable. But think, how many games like TESO do u know? This is a unique game that allowed us all to join this amazing universe. Yes, not without problems, but it gave us such an opportunity. I remember being happy that I could create a character of my favorite race and travel all over Tamriel

I almost never created topics on the forum, but I saw a ton of dirt towards the developers. Do you understand that the game could be much worse? They could not do such a magical voice acting with unique accents for each race, they could do boring quests, but as a result we got fantastically detailed universe of elder scrolls with beautiful music and quests that touch to the core

Do you really think that ZOS is not making an effort to make the game better? Yes, they are not an ideal gaming company, but nobody is perfect. I think that they can’t just press a button so that everyone can have access to the server now and the lags disappear, but they try to fix problems as soon as possible, and I see it and thank them for that

I’m sure that if they could fix problems with Cyrodiil and make it stable, they would do it, but apparently there are some problems that the company has the right not to disclose which prevent to fix it at the moment and many people do not understand the situation, but still feel hatred towards ZOS

The gaming industry is a business and I am grateful to the ZOS for not making this game "pay to win". They must earn money because it is an integral part of the business, but this is a company with not infinite resources that can fix all the existing problems

I am sure that ZOS has a plan how to make this game better. Players will not always like what ZOS does and I can't say that I liked all the updates, but they definitely don't deserve so much hate. The Elder Scrolls is the only game universe that fascinated me and I want to thank them for making one of the best MMORPG games in the world, not without flaws, but interesting and beautiful

crowfl56 · May 2020

As ZOS always tells us,

We are aware of the issue's and are looking into them.

Itzmichi · May 2020

So you are telling me, that if you are visiting my restaurant and you order a nice steak and pay for it, that you are okay if I place a turd on your plate and serve it to ya?

redgreensunset · May 2020

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

[snip]

I am sure that ZOS has a plan how to make this game better. Players will not always like what ZOS does and I can't say that I liked all the updates, but they definitely don't deserve so much hate. The Elder Scrolls is the only game universe that fascinated me and I want to thank them for making one of the best MMORPG games in the world, not without flaws, but interesting and beautiful

Sure they have a plan. That plan have so far made performance go from bad but kinda playable, to absolutely broken. In fact step one of their plan cause PC/EU to burn down over several consecutive days and they had to cancel events because of those improvements. They never did fix the cause, the activity finder, only got it patched up enough that it no longer does burn down the server, but the function itself is still deeply bugged and doesn't work half the time.

This isn't just a Cyrodiil issue btw, trials and dungeons are deeply affected too to the point that you can spend hours gambling for an instance you can actually complete and that you have to give up completing even a normal trial because your team keeps getting aggressively desynced instances.

Finally these issues should have been fixed years ago but it wasn't until last year, after years of performance issues, they could even be bothered to acknowledge that they had a massive issue.

So yeah as a corporate entity ZOS does indeed deserve most of the criticism it gets.

TheImperfect · May 2020

I think for all the game offers I am personally just happy that a game like this exists. I don't expect the problems to be more than a day and some issues are probably expected although I would prefer it didn't happen I understand there aren't ideal circumstances and it's a very complex system to deal with. I'm sure they will figure it out.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

You are right that regular ZOS workers doesn't deserve all the hate and bashing. It is 100% server capacity issue. You may say that there are limits of hero engine or megaserver in terms of amount of active users, but consoles have even worse problems, while population is much lower then PC EU, so it's not software level limitation.
ZOS decision makers don't buy sufficient server capacity and keep it on minimal level for whatever reasons, and of course during events or new updates that minimal capacity can't handle all the load. For PC NA that minimal level is probably slightly better, because it is main market or they play themselves sometimes and provide direct feedback to leadership.

Vaoh · May 2020

Itzmichi wrote: »

So you are telling me, that if you are visiting my restaurant and you order a nice steak and pay for it, that you are okay if I place a turd on your plate and serve it to ya?

^^

x48rph · May 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are right that regular ZOS workers doesn't deserve all the hate and bashing. It is 100% server capacity issue. You may say that there are limits of hero engine or megaserver in terms of amount of active users, but consoles have even worse problems, while population is much lower then PC EU, so it's not software level limitation.
ZOS decision makers don't buy sufficient server capacity and keep it on minimal level for whatever reasons, and of course during events or new updates that minimal capacity can't handle all the load. For PC NA that minimal level is probably slightly better, because it is main market or they play themselves sometimes and provide direct feedback to leadership.

It's not just their server capacity. It's their whole code base and yes the engine they run it on too. No matter what "fixes" they try to implement, the problems just get worse. Dsyncs and other game breaking issues happen quite frequently at low population times as well as high which means it's not just a server capacity issue.

EmEm_Oh · May 2020

Anyone have a login queue? I've never had this before.

MikeSkyrim333 · May 2020

Itzmichi wrote: »

So you are telling me, that if you are visiting my restaurant and you order a nice steak and pay for it, that you are okay if I place a turd on your plate and serve it to ya?

Not a good comparison. TESO is playable, it has flaws, but your comparison is too exaggerated. I would agree with you if we experienced such technical work every day, but most of the time this game works well, which means it can’t be a turd. It is more like a slightly overcooked or slightly undercooked but tasty steak

Gabrielzavadski · May 2020

tldr ZOS don't deserve so much hate?

so you like broken games?

If the game was free to play, maybe... but when you pay for something, you'd expect it to work.

Itzmichi · May 2020

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Itzmichi wrote: »

So you are telling me, that if you are visiting my restaurant and you order a nice steak and pay for it, that you are okay if I place a turd on your plate and serve it to ya?

Not a good comparison. TESO is playable, it has flaws, but your comparison is too exaggerated. I would agree with you if we experienced such technical work every day, but most of the time this game works well, which means it can’t be a turd. It is more like a slightly overcooked or slightly undercooked but tasty steak

I don't see any difference tbh, both cases offer a product you have to pay for. So you come with an intent and expectations for your money.

Like no normal and healthy person ever would accept a faulty product, let it be a steak or a game.

In both cases your evening is ruined, the steak turned out to be a turd and instead of getting in a better mood after that terrible experience playing your favourite game, you can't cause it's not working. So you've been screwed twice tonight. But BTW no refunds.

EmEm_Oh · May 2020

I'm getting a 16min queue time.

WildRaptorX · May 2020

Agreed. No matter what they do people will always complain. Some are reasonable complaints but people forget all the positive things they have done.

The state the game is in now is also down to these players constant complaints about everything. Dunno why people complain about the game and still play/go on the forums.

Dzadzey · May 2020

Yes, ZOS DOES "deserve so much hate".

Thechuckage · May 2020

Some of us want to raise the bar, while some obviously like that bar where it is. Then there are the people digging a hole for the bar. I for one dont think its too much to ask that the "improvements" actually do improve the game play.

Not QoL issues, but the constant mini-loadscreens and desyncs and all the other fun little problems.

MartiniDaniels · May 2020

x48rph wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are right that regular ZOS workers doesn't deserve all the hate and bashing. It is 100% server capacity issue. You may say that there are limits of hero engine or megaserver in terms of amount of active users, but consoles have even worse problems, while population is much lower then PC EU, so it's not software level limitation.
ZOS decision makers don't buy sufficient server capacity and keep it on minimal level for whatever reasons, and of course during events or new updates that minimal capacity can't handle all the load. For PC NA that minimal level is probably slightly better, because it is main market or they play themselves sometimes and provide direct feedback to leadership.

It's not just their server capacity. It's their whole code base and yes the engine they run it on too. No matter what "fixes" they try to implement, the problems just get worse. Dsyncs and other game breaking issues happen quite frequently at low population times as well as high which means it's not just a server capacity issue.

All those "new" issues appeared in patch 25 after "optimization".
Before U25, in low peak hours game was running fine. And ok, let's suggest PC EU reached limit of software capacity. What's about Xbox, PS4? There are way less players there on same engine. Why ZOS can't just expand capacity and give them perfect performance?
I won't say that everything can be solved by additional hardware, but majority of things are. I am server system administrator myself, in practice problems on moderately loaded servers are rare and mostly caused by human mistake or new bug. On heavily overloaded servers... problems are a weekly deal. Same code starts to generate faults when capacity is insufficient.

Kadoin · May 2020

TL;DR won't read anything from anyone that liked Skyrim to the point they put it in their username, but what I will say is that people generally deserve what they get.

By the way, I hated Skyrim and still do, especially after its release day performance. Wait, then how exactly do I feel about ESO...?

That means's...Woah...no way...! It's a lie! Lie! Lie! Lie! I can't...!

Castagere · May 2020

They sure as heck don't. All these crying babies and it hasn't been 24 hours yet. Really so pathetic.

Czekoludek · May 2020

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

English is not my native language, russian is, so excuse me in advance for mistakes

I have been playing this game since beta and I know that there were a lot of problems in this game, but remember how much fun this game brought to you

Yes, optimization is not good, there are spikes, delays, loading screens, but with every patch game become a little better. And I won't discuss about balance of classes, because other MMORPG games showed that it is almost impossible to make perfect balance

I think if it were so easy to make the game perfectly optimized, ZOS would go in that direction, but apparently, fixing all the problems forever is not so easy as it seems to us, because we are not game developers, right?

There are no game in the world 100% without bugs and perfectly stable. But think, how many games like TESO do u know? This is a unique game that allowed us all to join this amazing universe. Yes, not without problems, but it gave us such an opportunity. I remember being happy that I could create a character of my favorite race and travel all over Tamriel

I almost never created topics on the forum, but I saw a ton of dirt towards the developers. Do you understand that the game could be much worse? They could not do such a magical voice acting with unique accents for each race, they could do boring quests, but as a result we got fantastically detailed universe of elder scrolls with beautiful music and quests that touch to the core

Do you really think that ZOS is not making an effort to make the game better? Yes, they are not an ideal gaming company, but nobody is perfect. I think that they can’t just press a button so that everyone can have access to the server now and the lags disappear, but they try to fix problems as soon as possible, and I see it and thank them for that

I’m sure that if they could fix problems with Cyrodiil and make it stable, they would do it, but apparently there are some problems that the company has the right not to disclose which prevent to fix it at the moment and many people do not understand the situation, but still feel hatred towards ZOS

The gaming industry is a business and I am grateful to the ZOS for not making this game "pay to win". They must earn money because it is an integral part of the business, but this is a company with not infinite resources that can fix all the existing problems

I am sure that ZOS has a plan how to make this game better. Players will not always like what ZOS does and I can't say that I liked all the updates, but they definitely don't deserve so much hate. The Elder Scrolls is the only game universe that fascinated me and I want to thank them for making one of the best MMORPG games in the world, not without flaws, but interesting and beautiful

How long have you been here? Zos shows US many times that they don't care, they will not fix and they will not communicate with US properly. They did almost every sin that gaming company can do, including lying, releasing broken product, treating their customers like dummies. At this point even EA handles it better.

No mods, it's not bashing, it is true. Stop censorship every inch of criticism

OtarTheMad · May 2020

I don't think they deserve a lot of the hate they are shoveled either and this is coming from someone who is kind of ticked off at the moment. They are trying doing their best with a crappy situation and doing it from home I think still, which is hard.

Josira · May 2020

They kind of do deserve the hate.
Community Managers? no. they dont. Devs themselves? no.
Most of the decisions we likely see come from higher up the ladder so to speak
..that being said what was that that Rich Lambert said about Blood Frenzy? that laughable quote?
And lets look at greymore,its...like what,50$+(depending on country) for....passive skill lines that add more grind to the game?
"oh but the vampire skill line was the chapter thing"
but that was free. and also rehashed animations,and terrible.
Blood Scion looks like a daedric clown

TineaCruris · May 2020

x48rph wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are right that regular ZOS workers doesn't deserve all the hate and bashing. It is 100% server capacity issue. You may say that there are limits of hero engine or megaserver in terms of amount of active users, but consoles have even worse problems, while population is much lower then PC EU, so it's not software level limitation.
ZOS decision makers don't buy sufficient server capacity and keep it on minimal level for whatever reasons, and of course during events or new updates that minimal capacity can't handle all the load. For PC NA that minimal level is probably slightly better, because it is main market or they play themselves sometimes and provide direct feedback to leadership.

It's not just their server capacity. It's their whole code base and yes the engine they run it on too. No matter what "fixes" they try to implement, the problems just get worse. Dsyncs and other game breaking issues happen quite frequently at low population times as well as high which means it's not just a server capacity issue.

Judging by the timing and severity, it's mostly a server capacity issue, a hardware issue mainly, and much less a software/coding issue. This is why performance is so much worse during peak usage times....just like when your ISP overloads your node. Things work ok most of the time, then when people actually start logging in, the server starts to stutter under the load.

coletas · May 2020

is a bad parallelism design on software. client and server. No matter what hardware they/you use. if you make a superdupper fffassst road and try to run 10000 Cars there, It Will collapse. And you cant make It more supperdupper. They need to make It scalable aka add more normal and sufficient little roads everytime they need it for everyone can get to their destinations. The problem is that without a competent architect that know how to route that roads, they are Lost. After so many years i doubt there is one in the team and they are just trying to amortize the supperdupper road

Bam_Bam · May 2020

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Itzmichi wrote: »

So you are telling me, that if you are visiting my restaurant and you order a nice steak and pay for it, that you are okay if I place a turd on your plate and serve it to ya?

Not a good comparison. TESO is playable, it has flaws, but your comparison is too exaggerated. I would agree with you if we experienced such technical work every day, but most of the time this game works well, which means it can’t be a turd. It is more like a slightly overcooked or slightly undercooked but tasty steak

It isn't playable. Some of can't even log in.

Nomad1098 · May 2020

We can't even play the game right now because of login queues. They deserve more criticism. Slapping the Elder Scrolls name on it doesn't give them a pass.

SFDB · May 2020

MikeSkyrim333 wrote: »

Not a good comparison. TESO is playable

*checks the unmoving queue position*

No, no it really isn't.

YandereGirlfriend · May 2020

TineaCruris wrote: »

Judging by the timing and severity, it's mostly a server capacity issue, a hardware issue mainly, and much less a software/coding issue. This is why performance is so much worse during peak usage times....just like when your ISP overloads your node. Things work ok most of the time, then when people actually start logging in, the server starts to stutter under the load.

I largely agree, though I think that their programming standards do need to come in for some criticism. With the way that many systems appear to function, it seems as though some of their programmers have never taken an algorithms course before. Then you have the introduction of parallel programming in 2020 which is quite late indeed to the proverbial "ballgame."

Inadequate server capacity is also a business decision, which is to say that it is a choice that they choose to make. It's not like some act of God like a tornado sweeping away the server farm. An influx of players is expected for a major release and failing to plan for it can totally be blamed on and attributed to the company (particularly, the Board Room of the company).

Durham · May 2020

I didnt even know about the Q logged off for a minute to grab a coffee and something sweet. Logged back on and there is a 27 minute Q that has not moved in the last 30 minutes

gabriebe · May 2020

A company unable to deliver the product its customer are paying for, especially when a lot of people are paying it on a monthly suscription basis, deserves all the *** it gets.

Palidon · May 2020

They deserve the the negative comments they are receiving. Their answer is to close down treads that are doing so. Just today since the new chapter they have closed down several treads complaining about issues. That is not how a company supports their game.