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Rich Lambert's stance on perfected master and maelstrom weapons
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tgrippa✭✭✭✭✭I doubt many here actually want the new weapon handed to them, I for one do not.
I felt this was a very lazy implementation of something that would be good for newer players. Have nMA and vMA drop the normal set, and put a little work in to make a hardmode for vMA to get the new perfected version. I doubt most people would complain about that, plus it gives those of us who have done vMA hundreds of times something new and interesting, even if it’s just recycling new content.
The way this was implemented was not thought out, it was cheap, lazy and honestly disrespectful of those who did vMA when it was a lot harder than it is now.Edited by tgrippa on May 26, 2020 11:09AMPCEU
heh.
heh.6 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I used to make 10 dollars an hour at McDonalds and then they made it 15 dollars an hour. I already did all that work for 5 years. I estimate that McDonalds owes me 5 years of 5 dollars per hour for 52 weeks a year comes out tot a total of 52 thousand dollars.
Actually, as soon as the salary rules changed, you got your wage packet updated -- you didn't have to re-apply for the job.
Your analogy serves the opposite to the point you're trying to make
14 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Have nMA and vMA drop the normal set, and put a little work in to make a hardmode for vMA to get the new perfected version. I doubt most people would complain about that, plus it gives those of us who have done vMA hundreds of times something new and interesting, even if it’s just recycling new content.
Another option to make "everyone happy", and not involving extra work for ZOS, would be
- Normal completion drops a random non-perfected weapons
- Vet completion grants a random perfected weapon
- A flawless (= no-death) vet run gives a perfected weapon of the player's choice.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on May 26, 2020 11:19AM7 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Have nMA and vMA drop the normal set, and put a little work in to make a hardmode for vMA to get the new perfected version. I doubt most people would complain about that, plus it gives those of us who have done vMA hundreds of times something new and interesting, even if it’s just recycling new content.
Another option to make "everyone happy", and not involving extra work for ZOS, would be
- Normal drops randon non-perfected weapons
- Vet completion grants a random perfected weapon
- A flawless run gives a perfected weapon of the player's choice.
Oof, infernos will rain down on me!"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »He is not wrong Hank.
you havent earned the new weapon.
How he didn't earned weapon, if he already farmed ABSOLUTELY THE SAME CONTENT?
If difficulty of VMA was increased then you'll be right. But it was not increased, nothing changed, more then that, VMA actually became much easier because of new sets like PFG.
technically it isnt absolutely the same due to all class/combat changes in patch
The content of vMA doesn't change just because your class's skills have changed. That's be like saying vMA is different if you play on a NB vs a DK. You might need different strategies to get through but the boss mechanics are exactly the same.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS9 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Have nMA and vMA drop the normal set, and put a little work in to make a hardmode for vMA to get the new perfected version. I doubt most people would complain about that, plus it gives those of us who have done vMA hundreds of times something new and interesting, even if it’s just recycling new content.
Another option to make "everyone happy", and not involving extra work for ZOS, would be
- Normal drops randon non-perfected weapons
- Vet completion grants a random perfected weapon
- A flawless run gives a perfected weapon of the player's choice.
Oof, infernos will rain down on me!
LoL stop bragging now :-) You can't use more than what you need of those staves anyway :-)
What I meant is that people who have grinded VMA extensively in the past are LIKELY to achieve a no-death run quite easily and probably would not mind running it once or twice to get the upgraded weapons. One of the reasons of the current uproar is that farming VMA weapons can mean not 1 or 10 runs, but 100 runs, and that's a big part of the problem.
I don't see any downside in this suggestion - except, perhaps, the issue with people selling runs.
2 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Have nMA and vMA drop the normal set, and put a little work in to make a hardmode for vMA to get the new perfected version. I doubt most people would complain about that, plus it gives those of us who have done vMA hundreds of times something new and interesting, even if it’s just recycling new content.
Another option to make "everyone happy", and not involving extra work for ZOS, would be
- Normal drops randon non-perfected weapons
- Vet completion grants a random perfected weapon
- A flawless run gives a perfected weapon of the player's choice.
Oof, infernos will rain down on me!
LoL stop bragging now :-) You can't use more than what you need of those staves anyway :-)
What I meant is that people who have grinded VMA extensively in the past are LIKELY to achieve a no-death run quite easily and probably would not mind running it once or twice to get the upgraded weapons. One of the reasons of the current uproar is that farming VMA weapons can mean not 1 or 10 runs, but 100 runs, and that's a big part of the problem.
I don't see any downside in this suggestion - except, perhaps, the issue with people selling runs.
😅 I wasn't. But I've been wanting another inferno for one of my new characters and the damn thing refuses to drop. I stopped farming after they introduced this nonsense."Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.0 -
Malthorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭If ZOS wants us to farm “new” arena weapons they should have added new arena content.11 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants us to farm “new” arena weapons they should have added new arena content.
That certainly would have avoided what is basically a philosophical discussion, at this point. Done right, I think they should have constructed an additional final content for veteran that had this reward for completion. That content would not be available if done in normal.
That is a steep price to pay just for a goal of bringing perfected weapons into the game for these arenas. At that point, my vote would have been to just leave it alone and not do perfected weapons until the studio is prepared to add to the content.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If ZOS wants us to farm “new” arena weapons they should have added new arena content.
That certainly would have avoided what is basically a philosophical discussion, at this point. Done right, I think they should have constructed an additional final content for veteran that had this reward for completion. That content would not be available if done in normal.
That is a steep price to pay just for a goal of bringing perfected weapons into the game for these arenas. At that point, my vote would have been to just leave it alone and not do perfected weapons until the studio is prepared to add to the content.
This is just one of many options they had that could have avoided all this disgruntlement. As I said in a previous post on another thread, had they listened to feedback and actually entered into dialog with players, so much more could have been beneficially achieved for all sides of the argument.5 -
silvereyes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Yes and no.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The outburst here about the maelstroem weapons sound to me like hamsters who are fed up with running the wheel and having to do it all over
[snip]
On a side note, I believe there's always been a problem with VMA. Apart from a handful of players who are absolute fans of this arena, I think it's simply not fun enough.
It's not that the arena itself isn't fun. It's grueling to learn, but there's a certain sort of fun to be had by beating it. It's not for everyone, but not all content needs to be.
However, RNG of weapons drops in this game in general are not fun. They are the worst kind of grind. And vMA is especially notorious due to the fact that it's solo content, so you can't trade with a group member.
With the introduction of things like transmutation (added in the same update as perfected weapons, I might mention), and undaunted coffers, I'd thought that ZOS understood that excessive grind isn't fun and was actively working to limit it. They hadn't pulled another gear cap increase stunt like they did in Update 7, so I thought they'd learned their lesson not to do that sort of thing again too.
I don't know what has prompted them to abandon that trend towards less grind with Update 26, but I'm not a fan.[PC/NA] @silvereyes | My Addons on ESOUI.com2 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭General question for those who managed to log in during those 5 minutes. Did they upgrade the weapons?0 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭General question for those who managed to log in during those 5 minutes. Did they upgrade the weapons?
No.PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS6 -
siddique✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I remember the first time I cleared it. It is a very well designed arena. But like everything else, grinding it for eternity to have a miniscule chance at getting the BiS weapon gets old very fast.Edited by siddique on May 26, 2020 12:19PM"Knee-jerk reactionist."
Lost Depths, 2015-2022.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭General question for those who managed to log in during those 5 minutes. Did they upgrade the weapons?
I have not logged into the game, but I think I can answer that.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭General question for those who managed to log in during those 5 minutes. Did they upgrade the weapons?
Some guildmates managed to login and no, their weapons were not upgraded. What irretates me is that there wasn't even a single sentence about this in the actual patch notes.PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK4 -
seerevaloc✭✭✭.No you have not. You earned the item that dropped for you at the time of completion. Rephrasing the argument a thousand different ways does not change that fact. Players specifically requested this addition when the perfected variants first came out.
I understand the rational of the argument clearly however saying you earned the item is not true. You earned the item you got, specifically.
I earned the 2016 version of Plague Doctor, one that gave 6k HP with the 5p bonus, yet somehow all versions of that set give 3k HP now.
If downgrading a set that is already in our inventories is ok, the same should be true for upgrades. Otherwise I demand my 6k Plague Doctor back!
Also, as many pointed out, it is one thing when the better gear comes with new content (this includes level cap increases), but making us re-farm the same content for the better gear is an insult. We earned the veteran rewards, we should keep the veteran rewards, not have them downgraded to normal rewards.- This is the correct Argument. I have looted Perf. Concentrated Force before the update, so I demand Greymoor won't downgrade mine. But it is Downgrading.
- But I looted Crushing Wall from vMA before Greymoor too, the same Update isn't upgrading my weapon.
Lmao, for bad things it's valid. For good things it isn't.
But don't worry, ZoS Guys have a methodology, logic & strategy behind all this ***-storm right? It's me bad because accusing them having no idea wtf they're doing every day.
Hypocrisy at its' finest form @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert !
Anyway, kind regards.6 -
heaven13✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I wouldn't say I had hope, but maybe a morbid curiosity if anything anyone has said has sunk in. But weapons aren't upgraded, RO (and all KA sets) still garbage, perfected inferno still has pen, but this is our dev team:PC/NAMountain God | Leave No Bone Unbroken | Apex Predator | Pure Lunacy | Depths Defier | No Rest for the Wicked | In Defiance of DeathMeet my characters :
Defanged the Devourer | Nature's Wrath | Relentless Raider | True Genius | Bane of Thorns | Subterranean Smasher | Ardent Bibliophile
vAA HM | vHRC HM | vSO HM | vDSA | vMoL HM | vHoF HM | vAS+2 | vCR+2 | vBRP | vSS HM | vKA | vRGIT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL THE SAME NOW, THANKS ZOS4 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭
I wouldn't say I had hope, but maybe a morbid curiosity if anything anyone has said has sunk in. But weapons aren't upgraded, RO (and all KA sets) still garbage, perfected inferno still has pen, but this is our dev team:
And on top of that not even a single sentence about this in the patch notes, even though they made a developer comment section for the arena weapons.PC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK3 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I wouldn't say I had hope, but maybe a morbid curiosity if anything anyone has said has sunk in. But weapons aren't upgraded, RO (and all KA sets) still garbage, perfected inferno still has pen, but this is our dev team:
And on top of that not even a single sentence about this in the patch notes, even though they made a developer comment section for the arena weapons.
I believe they may be of the opinion that anything they say will be torn apart. They've allowed this to fester too long unfortunately.
In politics and business, there is a spin rule of rapid response and rebuttal where the method is to dilute complaint and manage expectations immediately, to understand the nature of what is being used against you and frame it in a way that is acceptable or reach a complimentary solution to appease. However it manifests, you do not leave an issue of this scale grow and fester for weeks without handling it, you aim to quash it within 3-4 days. It smacks of the attitude that it isn't worth the effort and gives the perception of ivory tower mentality when you leave it.Edited by mairwen85 on May 26, 2020 12:41PM6 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This should not have been a surprise on any level.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭
This should not have been a surprise on any level.
Weapons not being upgraded is no surprise, no.Edited by HankTwo on May 26, 2020 1:20PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭An endless grind, ESO? What?
Preposterous. You need to not lag to grindI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations3 -
protofeckless✭✭✭silvereyes wrote: »
Yes and no.anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »The outburst here about the maelstroem weapons sound to me like hamsters who are fed up with running the wheel and having to do it all over
[snip]
On a side note, I believe there's always been a problem with VMA. Apart from a handful of players who are absolute fans of this arena, I think it's simply not fun enough.
It's not that the arena itself isn't fun. It's grueling to learn, but there's a certain sort of fun to be had by beating it. It's not for everyone, but not all content needs to be.
However, RNG of weapons drops in this game in general are not fun. They are the worst kind of grind. And vMA is especially notorious due to the fact that it's solo content, so you can't trade with a group member.
With the introduction of things like transmutation (added in the same update as perfected weapons, I might mention), and undaunted coffers, I'd thought that ZOS understood that excessive grind isn't fun and was actively working to limit it. They hadn't pulled another gear cap increase stunt like they did in Update 7, so I thought they'd learned their lesson not to do that sort of thing again too.
I don't know what has prompted them to abandon that trend towards less grind with Update 26, but I'm not a fan.
No the player base already voted on this. The participation numbers were so low in vMA after folks got their achievements / weapons. The vast majority of players thus decided it wasn't fun. The only reason to play was gated BiS gear.
Its boring content. It's too heavily rng biased. The drop rate is stupid. But at least it's buggy as hell and somehow laggy even for a single player instance. Not fun.
But why make the content compelling when forcing a regrind for BiS gear is 100% operating profit?1 -
Àdhamh_Creag✭✭I got into an arguement with rich on twitch messages and the literal next day I got banned for 2 messages that didn't violate tos and I would not have been reported for, there are some really damn talented people at zenimax but their *** creative directors and *** poor customer service teams are killing their mmo that has so much potential.9
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Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The really sad thing is that all of this has been so very, very unnecessary.
ZOS doesn't introduce evil power creep with upgrading the weapons - as many have noted, the boni aren't that important anyway. They don't set a precedent - they're buffing and nerfing items all the time without batting an eye. It's not a large rework or overhaul where they want to follow their "vision" or whatever.
It's simply not a major issue for ZOS, and they could have easily avoided a major issue for their players.
But out of - I don't know. Wounded pride? A weird desire to "not budge"? A totally misguided choice of battlefield? Complete deafness to how their players tick? I don't know. But for whatever frelling reason, they decided to go through with this.
Not only to go through with it but to scuttle the last remains of their "better communication" attempts - over this, of all issues. Not a single word about this for weeks, not even a "deal with it", and constant removals of comments here and on streams.
This is a conflict that didn't need to exist, at all, and I really wonder what the hell went on in their minds and meetings.Edited by Varana on May 26, 2020 1:07PM9 -
Suddwrath✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@ZOS_RichLambert is going to be participating in an AMA tomorrow at 4pm EST on Twitch, so I intend to ask him about this very topic.6 -
virtus753✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Well, that’s been a fair bit of entirely unnecessary damage done at an enormously tenuous moment.
It might not have been the communication we were promised, but what Rich did say and how he said it speaks volumes. And the company seems content to let him speak for them.
On the bright side, at least now we know the devs’ vision of the game and how open they are to honest feedback, straight from the horse’s mouth. As it were.3
This discussion has been closed.