Point of view on vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism.

XomRhoK
XomRhoK
✭✭✭✭✭
Hello!
Soon Greymoor chapter will be released and PTS cycle goes to its end, we already saw direction of vampire changes and i don’t like them in terms of skills and visual effects. So i wrote my point of view on all aspects of vampirism, inspired by all feedback on this forum. This changes are more of an overhaul of vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism, more for my fun and with sliver hope, that this can be implemented as another vampire blood line in 4th quater DLC. It will be a long read, but it's structured and with pictures =) Hope you will like it, and if so, then click "agree" or "awesome", spread the word and summon ZOS devs in this thread.
Enjoy reading!

Overview
This version of vampirism allows to play with minor usage of vampire skills and feed once every 4 hours or play with full kit of thematic vampire skills (AoE, DoT, gap closer, dash) with active feeding in combat, in which vampire skills will help you to get behind the enemy. Stages of vampirism are not linear increased in strength, but shifted from magically powerful fully sated vampires with more human appearance and bodies full of blood to feral and physically powerful hungry vampires with more undeath appearance and bodies, the last 4th stage is starved vampires, alive, but weak, which encourages players to feed. One morph of the ultimate allows to transform in a different form, other morph allows to remain in regular vampire appearance but with increased power. Skills and passive, in my opinion, will suit all classes and roles(tank, healer, DD), magicka or stamina. All numbers can be tweaked and balanced, the main purpose is to give unique, thematic playstyle and feel for vampires.

Stages of vampirism

Stage 1: Vampires at this stage are fully sated, have more human appearance and bodies full of blood. At this stage their magical powers are at full potential.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +10%
- Health recovery -25%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -10%
Strengths:
- Spell damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 2: At this stage vampires start to lose their humanity and part of magical bonuses, their appearance and body become more undeath, but more physically stronger.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +20%
- Health recovery -50%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -20%
Strengths:
- Spell and weapon damage increased by 150 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while channeling
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 15% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
- Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

Stage 3: Vampires at this stage are hungry, they lose their magical bonuses, appearance and body become more undeath, but hunger make them feral, their hunting instincts are growing, they gain more physical power and speed.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +30%
- Health recovery -80%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -30%
Strengths:
- Weapon damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
Passives:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
- No speed penalty while channeling

Stage 4: Vampires at this stage are starved, their appearance and body become more undeath, all their magical and physical bonuses are outweighed by weak state of this stage, except their unstoppable hunger and ability to sense their preys.
Weaknesses:
- Flame damage taken +40%
- Health recovery -100%
- Healing taken from non vampire skills -40%
Strengths:
- None
Passives:
- Detect creatures. Can sense(see) sneaking, invisible creatures and creatures behind obstacles. (Maybe except creatures without blood: dwarven automatons, skeletons etc. Not very big radius, to prevent abusing in PvP, checking number of enemies in keeps)
- Can't be interrupted while Feeding or using Vampire Drain
Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
- Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
- No speed penalty while blocking
- Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
- Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
- Increase your movement speed by 10%
- Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
Table for stages of vampirism, for easier comparison.
wZdljzO.jpg

Health recovery weakness can be lower in shadows and inside buildings, for example by 20%, for additional roleplay element and vampiric gameplay. Don't know if this possible to achieve at ESO engine and at what cost.
Regarding appearance. There always will be players with different preferences of which vampire stage they want to play and how their vampire must look, more human or more undeath. The only good option, in my opinion, is to release more appropriate skins and polymorphs for vampires, human-like, undeath-like, with bat faces, as some vampires in Volkihar clan and so on. There is no point in strict restrictions, because if you want to hide your vampiric appearance you already can, by using skin or closed helmet.

Feeding
Feeding out of combat.
If you feed on NPC out of combat and from behind you will kill him, as it will be on Live servers, but with longer bite animation, to emphasize that you dried him for the last drop. Player can choose not to kill NPC, you can use Mesmorize skill on NPC and this will allows you to feed on him in front, with shorter bite animation and keep him alive, it will also help in small rooms with small space behind NPC. If you kill NPC by drying him out you will restore all Health, if you keep him alive you will restore some portion of Health. Player also can feed on another player, but it will not kill him, it will start fight and activate Feeding in combat mechanics.

Feeding in combat
This is crucial mechanics, which will add a lot of fun and vampiric feel to the combat, in my opinion. While in combat, you also can feed, to do so enemy must be stunned or player must be behind enemy(at melee range, no need to sneak). If at least one of the conditions fulfilled player can press "X" button and feed, animation must be very fast and precise, for example, vampire turn into the mist and instantly is behind enemy already in appropriate pose to execute the bite, all animations no longer than one second. To prevent collisions with animations of another player who can use Break Free or Dodge Roll both players, vampire and victim, can become stunned and invulnerable(covered with cloud of mist or bats) for that one second, this also will prevent setting up of burst combos, or killing victim by another players while he get bitten.

Skills

New crucial mechanics of vampire gameplay. Vampires will have Satiety bar under Magicka bar, similar to werewolves. This bar will be divided at four parts, four stages. r0ggy13.jpg
Satiety will be slowly drained and will deplete one stage at 4 hours, but usage of vampire skills will deplete Satiety bar much faster, around 10-20 skills per stage. You can replenish Satiety for a little amount by using Vampire Drain skill, but this skill can't lower vampire stage. To lower vampire stage and replenish bar for one full stage you must bite enemy in combat, feed outside of combat or use Bloody Mara(to prevent abusing of Bloody Maras it could have 3-5 minutes timer).

*) Bite. Don't need to be slotted, ability out of skill line. While in combat, if enemy is stunned or you are behind him in melee range you can Bite him, dealing X damage and heal for Y health, scales from highest stat or have fixed values, maybe in percentages. Also lowers stage of vampirism by one and replenish Satiety bar by full stage.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
Jq0u8Im.gif
Clarification: Core and very thematic element of gameplay. Allows you to heal and fuel the use of vampire skills. Animation must be fast, around 1 second.

1) First morph: Poison Talons. Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with melee attacks with the talons, each attack with talons stacks Corpse Poison, after 5 stacks slows enemy by 90% for 1 second. This slow can help you get behind enemy for Bite. Cost Stamina to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Physical damage, restore Stamina on Heavy attacks. Attacks looks like those Bloodfiend NPC have, Heavy attack looks like series of 3-4 attacks.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
eG1CgGl.gif
Second morph: Concentrated blood Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with ranged magical Light and Heavy attacks, each attack restore Health a little and increase Healing done by 1% for 8 seconds, maximum 8 stacks. Cost Magicka to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Magical damage, restore Magicka on Heavy attacks. Heavy attack is AoE, with a short charging time.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
liSTIuI.gifuSqGsxJ.gif
Additional features while in Transformed form: No cost to toggle on and don't decreases Satiety on each attack.

Clarification: Thematic vampire attacks. Replaces regular LA and HA, because of that weapon enchantments stop working while this skill is toggle on, but your LA and HA gets another properties: powerful slow or increased Healing done. Also with this toggle you can choose what type of recources you want to restore on HA, you can restore Stamina with your sword and Magicka with this toggle. At the moment of the attack, weapon disappears from the player’s hands, similar to psijic Mend Wounds skill. If you prefer vampire aesthetic in spammable attacks you can go HA build and attack primarily with claws and red magic spheres, while keeping the opportunity to use regular spammable skills.

2) First morph: Bat Swarm Dash. Dash, no target needed. Turns into swarm of bats and fly forward dealing X Magical damage to all enemies in the way, small group of bats stick to each enemy, continues to distract them and deal additional Y Magical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and apply Minor Maim. Range 15 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Looks more like Vampire NPCs dash with some magic ball inside of swarm, but bats must stick to the central ball all the way.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
Im1gxpm.gif
Second morph: Hunger Swarm. Gap closer, needs target. Turns into swarm of bats and fly to the enemy dealing X Physical damage to all enemies in the way and heal you for part of the damage done, small group of bats stick to each enemy, keep dealing additional Y Physical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and heal you for part of the damage done. You materialize behind the enemy, for easier Bite. Range 22 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Visuals without magical element.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
lesK3Wb.gif
Additional features while in Transformed form: Swarm of the bats constantly fly around player in a small radius and deal damage to nearby enemies. Damage type and additional properties depends on morph of appropriate skill.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
jsqfN0E.gif

Clarification: Canonic vampire power, have Magicka and Stamina morphs. Can be used as dash or gap closer or as a DoT ability.

3) First morph: Vampiric Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy dealing X Magic damage, healing you for Y Health and generating 5 Ultimate every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. Visuals looks like the flow of blood. Old Invigorating Drain skill had very good visuals and sound, perhaps, flow could be a little wider.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
3PqsAlk.gif
Second morph: Relentless Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy decreasing his Health for X% of his maximum Health and healing you for Y% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, have damage cap, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. This morph also looks like the flow of blood, difference in visuals can be achieved by slightly different color, speed of flow, particles near hand.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
6nEVsQm.gif
Additional features while in Transformed form: Can lower stage of vampirism, additionally restores small portions of Magicka and Stamina

Clarification: Important spell in vampire kit. This ability allows you to deal average damage, restore Health and Satiety. Its range increases to 22 meters on the first stage of vampirism due to passive skill. It can't lower stage of vampirism, so if you use vampire skills a lot and don't use Bite for some reason, you must use Vampiric Drain more often to fuel your vampiric power.

4) Unmorphed: Mesmerize. Single target stun. Mesmerizes target for 4 seconds by putting hypnotic effect around his head. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
qnrkFuz.gif
First morph: Nightmare. Single target stun. Creates a hypnotic effect around the head of the enemy, fearing him for 4 seonds. The enemy begins to see nightmare visions, which afflicting him with Minor Vulnerability and dealing X Magic damage each 1 second for 10 seconds. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
xouqaRa.gif
Second morph: Dizziness. Single target stun. Quickly turns the opponent with his back to himself by putting hypnotic effect around his head, stuns him for 4 seconds and set Off Balance. This make him easy target to Bite. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
lkZWBHM.gif
Additional features while in Transformed form: Increases range to 22 meters. Pulls an enemy to you, deals X Physical damage, based on your highest offensive stat and and after use on of the skill morphs. Works similar to Fiery Grip skills. Overall animation and visuals similar to Vampiric Grip from TES: Skyrim.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
sdl7rE9.gif

Clarification: When used against peaceful NPCs always works unmorphed Mesmerize skill.

5) First morph: Poison mist. Invisability + Mist form + Ground AoE DoT ability. Dissolve into a mist form for 4 seconds and create cloud of poison mist around you in a large area which deals X Poison damage to all enemies in the area every 1 second for 10 seconds. Entering this form grants you invisibility, Major Expedition, reducing your damage taken by 75%, removes and grants immunity to all disabling and immobilization effects, but you cannot be healed. If you leave area of the mist cloud you will become visible. Invisibility and increased movement speed allows you to avoid damage and get behind enemy to Bite him. Radius 8 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
s4FwsVq.gif
First morph: Blood mist. Ranged ground AoE ability. Launch mist projectile on the groud to the targeted location which deals damage to all enemies in the way for X Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. When projectile hit targeted location it creates cloud of blood mist which deals damage to all enemies in the area for Y Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. While you stays inside the mist heal from this ability is doubled. Range 22 meters, radius 6 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Heal from the mist cloud looks like small parts of the Blood mist returns to the player.
Direction of visual effects(gif):
VPmZS7r.gif
Additional features while in Transformed form: While you stays inside the mist damage of this ability is doubled.

Clarification: Melee and ranged options for ground AoE. First morph looks like you instantly disappear in the mist cloud and can be used to avoid, mitigate damage or get behind enemy to Bite him.

6) Ultimate. First morph: Transformed form. Transforms into more powerful form. All vampire skills receive additional features (described above). In this form you attack with your claws and can't use weapon skills, but can alter your Light and Heavy attacks to ranged by Concentrated blood toggle skill. After the first 15 seconds in this form, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. Transformed form, first of all, looks like vampire, without horns, not very tall, have more predator stance, movements agile, have sharp claws. Not very important with or without wing stumps if the final look is good.
Direction of visual effects(jpg):
L2jJpNb.jpg
Ultimate. First morph: Ancient blood. While use this ability you combine strengths of all stages of vampirism and keep the minimum weaknesses of stage 1(see the table above). This ultimate keeps your regular appearance, you can use all skills. After the first 15 seconds of using this ultimate, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. To highlight that the player activated this Ultimate visual effects should be added to his model. Not very bright, maybe some smoke or mist coming from the surface of the body and falls to the ground, when player moves, mist can leave a small trail.
Direction of visual effects(jpg):
rijeHm5.jpg

Clarification: Both morphs can be tweaked, more buffs can be added according to balance. In fact, both ultimate morphs can be without transformation, if there will be enough options to customise your vampire character with appropriate skins and polymorphs.

Thank you for reading!

EDITS:
- Forgot to mention in original post, that Mesmerize and it morphs are Single target stun.


Summoning ritual: @Noxavian @Sephyr @Thevampirenight @TX12001rwb17_ESO @ShadowHvo @Vevvev @Lord-Otto @Cameron991 @Paradisius @navystylz_ESO @ApostateHobo @Darkstride @wild_kmacdb16_ESO @Alexium @Tessitura @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
Kj4jDNt.gif
Edited by XomRhoK on May 25, 2020 12:06PM
  • Lord-Otto
    Lord-Otto
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    A couple interesting ideas you have.
    Hm, the heal debuff might be a bit too harsh, the vampie heals and resistance don't really compensate. I think 30% should be the upper threshold.
    Mesmerize should not deal damage and debuff and be unmitigatable, that's too much. The vulnerability debuff is interesting, if suboptimal for nightblades.
    So basically, advancing stages makes vampires more tanky (fire aside), at the cost of offense. Hm. That is an original concept. I like it!
  • Cameron991
    Cameron991
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    I really love your transform idea! The only negative I would say would be it seems to harsh at stage 4, I like the vision but I would like some sort of vampire cost reduction as well as maybe some sort of extra damage with all abilities from stealth to show the visceral beast trying to take out his target faster to feed. This way they have great benefits and weaknesses. But I really love the idea of making the stages so different that each suits a better playstyle super cool!
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    Wait, I complain enough on these forums to be noticed and summoned by summoning rituals?!?!?!?

    Well, first thing I notice is the fact one of these ideas includes the second magicka bar. I actually made a thread I think before the PTS came out trying to get a similar idea on paper for others to see. It only made sense that a 2nd magicka bar could be used to track our (vampire stage/blood meter) to make life easier. Like how in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines where you had this blood meter on the right hand side of the screen that let you know how much power you had.

    As I continue to read this though I kind of like it. So when well fed your mind is keen and your magical potential is great, but as you starve your mind degrades and your physical strength increases.... well until you get to stage 4 and you've just lost it. I like it and I also like the fact each stage has a purpose. Stage 1 is pure mag, stage 2 is a blend of mag and stam, stage 3 is pure stam, and stage 4 is pure vampire. ((If I got that wrong correct me))

    The abilities also look like a lot of fun and I love the fact there are stam and mag options. It fulfills that statement the devs gave us when they said the new rework would allow us to fulfill all the vampire fantasies we were looking for. I do agree with Lord-Otto though that mind magic shouldn't have that many effects all at the same time. Tone it down a bit for balance reasons ((Of course keep the things that make sense. Just a stun is so boring even if its cheap.)) and I can totally see myself using it.

    I think my favorite part of this post is the fact you included an ultimate morph that lets the player opt out of the ugly beast morph and use something more... refined.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • MartiniDaniels
    MartiniDaniels
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    Interesting in concept, but numbers look unplayable tbh. Who wants to have -30% healing received and 30% fire susceptibility for 300 WD to few vampire abilities.

    If vampire will be like suggested in OP there will be less then 1% of players using it.
  • ShadowHvo
    ShadowHvo
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    I love you.

    The literal only thing that I would change, (IF anything at all) is the Stage 4, as I would personally prefer if that was the pinnacle of the vampires physical ferocity. Though with that said, I understand your reasoning for suggesting it to be at stage 3.

    I still love you though, this entire concept is far cooler than what we're about to receive.
    Nighren - The Shadow Striker
    Leader of Bloodlines
    -- EU --


    Want to roleplay in elder scrolls online? Check out eso-rp.com
  • Noxavian
    Noxavian
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    XomRhoK wrote: »
    Hello!
    Soon Greymoor chapter will be released and PTS cycle goes to its end, we already saw direction of vampire changes and i don’t like them in terms of skills and visual effects. So i wrote my point of view on all aspects of vampirism, inspired by all feedback on this forum. This changes are more of an overhaul of vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism, more for my fun and with sliver hope, that this can be implemented as another vampire blood line in 4th quater DLC. It will be a long read, but it's structured and with pictures =) Hope you will like it, and if so, then click "agree" or "awesome", spread the word and summon ZOS devs in this thread.
    Enjoy reading!

    Overview
    This version of vampirism allows to play with minor usage of vampire skills and feed once every 4 hours or play with full kit of thematic vampire skills (AoE, DoT, gap closer, dash) with active feeding in combat, in which vampire skills will help you to get behind the enemy. Stages of vampirism are not linear increased in strength, but shifted from magically powerful fully sated vampires with more human appearance and bodies full of blood to feral and physically powerful hungry vampires with more undeath appearance and bodies, the last 4th stage is starved vampires, alive, but weak, which encourages players to feed. One morph of the ultimate allows to transform in a different form, other morph allows to remain in regular vampire appearance but with increased power. Skills and passive, in my opinion, will suit all classes and roles(tank, healer, DD), magicka or stamina. All numbers can be tweaked and balanced, the main purpose is to give unique, thematic playstyle and feel for vampires.

    Stages of vampirism

    Stage 1: Vampires at this stage are fully sated, have more human appearance and bodies full of blood. At this stage their magical powers are at full potential.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +10%
    - Health recovery -25%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -10%
    Strengths:
    - Spell damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while channeling
    - Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

    Stage 2: At this stage vampires start to lose their humanity and part of magical bonuses, their appearance and body become more undeath, but more physically stronger.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +20%
    - Health recovery -50%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -20%
    Strengths:
    - Spell and weapon damage increased by 150 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while channeling
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 15% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

    Stage 3: Vampires at this stage are hungry, they lose their magical bonuses, appearance and body become more undeath, but hunger make them feral, their hunting instincts are growing, they gain more physical power and speed.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +30%
    - Health recovery -80%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -30%
    Strengths:
    - Weapon damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    - Increase your movement speed by 10%
    - Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - No speed penalty while channeling

    Stage 4: Vampires at this stage are starved, their appearance and body become more undeath, all their magical and physical bonuses are outweighed by weak state of this stage, except their unstoppable hunger and ability to sense their preys.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +40%
    - Health recovery -100%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -40%
    Strengths:
    - None
    Passives:
    - Detect creatures. Can sense(see) sneaking, invisible creatures and creatures behind obstacles. (Maybe except creatures without blood: dwarven automatons, skeletons etc. Not very big radius, to prevent abusing in PvP, checking number of enemies in keeps)
    - Can't be interrupted while Feeding or using Vampire Drain
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    - Increase your movement speed by 10%
    - Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
    Table for stages of vampirism, for easier comparison.
    wZdljzO.jpg

    Health recovery weakness can be lower in shadows and inside buildings, for example by 20%, for additional roleplay element and vampiric gameplay. Don't know if this possible to achieve at ESO engine and at what cost.
    Regarding appearance. There always will be players with different preferences of which vampire stage they want to play and how their vampire must look, more human or more undeath. The only good option, in my opinion, is to release more appropriate skins and polymorphs for vampires, human-like, undeath-like, with bat faces, as some vampires in Volkihar clan and so on. There is no point in strict restrictions, because if you want to hide your vampiric appearance you already can, by using skin or closed helmet.

    Feeding
    Feeding out of combat.
    If you feed on NPC out of combat and from behind you will kill him, as it will be on Live servers, but with longer bite animation, to emphasize that you dried him for the last drop. Player can choose not to kill NPC, you can use Mesmorize skill on NPC and this will allows you to feed on him in front, with shorter bite animation and keep him alive, it will also help in small rooms with small space behind NPC. If you kill NPC by drying him out you will restore all Health, if you keep him alive you will restore some portion of Health. Player also can feed on another player, but it will not kill him, it will start fight and activate Feeding in combat mechanics.

    Feeding in combat
    This is crucial mechanics, which will add a lot of fun and vampiric feel to the combat, in my opinion. While in combat, you also can feed, to do so enemy must be stunned or player must be behind enemy(at melee range, no need to sneak). If at least one of the conditions fulfilled player can press "X" button and feed, animation must be very fast and precise, for example, vampire turn into the mist and instantly is behind enemy already in appropriate pose to execute the bite, all animations no longer than one second. To prevent collisions with animations of another player who can use Break Free or Dodge Roll both players, vampire and victim, can become stunned and invulnerable(covered with cloud of mist or bats) for that one second, this also will prevent setting up of burst combos, or killing victim by another players while he get bitten.

    Skills

    New crucial mechanics of vampire gameplay. Vampires will have Satiety bar under Magicka bar, similar to werewolves. This bar will be divided at four parts, four stages. r0ggy13.jpg
    Satiety will be slowly drained and will deplete one stage at 4 hours, but usage of vampire skills will deplete Satiety bar much faster, around 10-20 skills per stage. You can replenish Satiety for a little amount by using Vampire Drain skill, but this skill can't lower vampire stage. To lower vampire stage and replenish bar for one full stage you must bite enemy in combat, feed outside of combat or use Bloody Mara(to prevent abusing of Bloody Maras it could have 3-5 minutes timer).

    *) Bite. Don't need to be slotted, ability out of skill line. While in combat, if enemy is stunned or you are behind him in melee range you can Bite him, dealing X damage and heal for Y health, scales from highest stat or have fixed values, maybe in percentages. Also lowers stage of vampirism by one and replenish Satiety bar by full stage.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    Jq0u8Im.gif
    Clarification: Core and very thematic element of gameplay. Allows you to heal and fuel the use of vampire skills. Animation must be fast, around 1 second.

    1) First morph: Poison Talons. Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with melee attacks with the talons, each attack with talons stacks Corpse Poison, after 5 stacks slows enemy by 90% for 1 second. This slow can help you get behind enemy for Bite. Cost Stamina to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Physical damage, restore Stamina on Heavy attacks. Attacks looks like those Bloodfiend NPC have, Heavy attack looks like series of 3-4 attacks.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    eG1CgGl.gif
    Second morph: Concentrated blood Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with ranged magical Light and Heavy attacks, each attack restore Health a little and increase Healing done by 1% for 8 seconds, maximum 8 stacks. Cost Magicka to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Magical damage, restore Magicka on Heavy attacks. Heavy attack is AoE, with a short charging time.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    liSTIuI.gifuSqGsxJ.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: No cost to toggle on and don't decreases Satiety on each attack.

    Clarification: Thematic vampire attacks. Replaces regular LA and HA, because of that weapon enchantments stop working while this skill is toggle on, but your LA and HA gets another properties: powerful slow or increased Healing done. Also with this toggle you can choose what type of recources you want to restore on HA, you can restore Stamina with your sword and Magicka with this toggle. At the moment of the attack, weapon disappears from the player’s hands, similar to psijic Mend Wounds skill. If you prefer vampire aesthetic in spammable attacks you can go HA build and attack primarily with claws and red magic spheres, while keeping the opportunity to use regular spammable skills.

    2) First morph: Bat Swarm Dash. Dash, no target needed. Turns into swarm of bats and fly forward dealing X Magical damage to all enemies in the way, small group of bats stick to each enemy, continues to distract them and deal additional Y Magical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and apply Minor Maim. Range 15 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Looks more like Vampire NPCs dash with some magic ball inside of swarm, but bats must stick to the central ball all the way.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    Im1gxpm.gif
    Second morph: Hunger Swarm. Gap closer, needs target. Turns into swarm of bats and fly to the enemy dealing X Physical damage to all enemies in the way and heal you for part of the damage done, small group of bats stick to each enemy, keep dealing additional Y Physical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and heal you for part of the damage done. You materialize behind the enemy, for easier Bite. Range 22 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Visuals without magical element.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    lesK3Wb.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Swarm of the bats constantly fly around player in a small radius and deal damage to nearby enemies. Damage type and additional properties depends on morph of appropriate skill.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    jsqfN0E.gif

    Clarification: Canonic vampire power, have Magicka and Stamina morphs. Can be used as dash or gap closer or as a DoT ability.

    3) First morph: Vampiric Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy dealing X Magic damage, healing you for Y Health and generating 5 Ultimate every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. Visuals looks like the flow of blood. Old Invigorating Drain skill had very good visuals and sound, perhaps, flow could be a little wider.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    3PqsAlk.gif
    Second morph: Relentless Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy decreasing his Health for X% of his maximum Health and healing you for Y% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, have damage cap, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. This morph also looks like the flow of blood, difference in visuals can be achieved by slightly different color, speed of flow, particles near hand.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    6nEVsQm.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Can lower stage of vampirism, additionally restores small portions of Magicka and Stamina

    Clarification: Important spell in vampire kit. This ability allows you to deal average damage, restore Health and Satiety. Its range increases to 22 meters on the first stage of vampirism due to passive skill. It can't lower stage of vampirism, so if you use vampire skills a lot and don't use Bite for some reason, you must use Vampiric Drain more often to fuel your vampiric power.

    4) Unmorphed: Mesmerize. Stun. Mesmerizes target for 4 seconds by putting hypnotic effect around his head. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    qnrkFuz.gif
    First morph: Nightmare. Stun. Creates a hypnotic effect around the head of the enemy, fearing him for 4 seonds. The enemy begins to see nightmare visions, which afflicting him with Minor Vulnerability and dealing X Magic damage each 1 second for 10 seconds. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    xouqaRa.gif
    Second morph: Dizziness. Stun. Quickly turns the opponent with his back to himself by putting hypnotic effect around his head, stuns him for 4 seconds and set Off Balance. This make him easy target to Bite. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    lkZWBHM.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Increases range to 22 meters. Pulls an enemy to you, deals X Physical damage, based on your highest offensive stat and and after use on of the skill morphs. Works similar to Fiery Grip skills. Overall animation and visuals similar to Vampiric Grip from TES: Skyrim.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    sdl7rE9.gif

    Clarification: When used against peaceful NPCs always works unmorphed Mesmerize skill.

    5) First morph: Poison mist. Invisability + Mist form + Ground AoE DoT ability. Dissolve into a mist form for 4 seconds and create cloud of poison mist around you in a large area which deals X Poison damage to all enemies in the area every 1 second for 10 seconds. Entering this form grants you invisibility, Major Expedition, reducing your damage taken by 75%, removes and grants immunity to all disabling and immobilization effects, but you cannot be healed. If you leave area of the mist cloud you will become visible. Invisibility and increased movement speed allows you to avoid damage and get behind enemy to Bite him. Radius 8 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    s4FwsVq.gif
    First morph: Blood mist. Ranged ground AoE ability. Launch mist projectile on the groud to the targeted location which deals damage to all enemies in the way for X Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. When projectile hit targeted location it creates cloud of blood mist which deals damage to all enemies in the area for Y Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. While you stays inside the mist heal from this ability is doubled. Range 22 meters, radius 6 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Heal from the mist cloud looks like small parts of the Blood mist returns to the player.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    VPmZS7r.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: While you stays inside the mist damage of this ability is doubled.

    Clarification: Melee and ranged options for ground AoE. First morph looks like you instantly disappear in the mist cloud and can be used to avoid, mitigate damage or get behind enemy to Bite him.

    6) Ultimate. First morph: Transformed form. Transforms into more powerful form. All vampire skills receive additional features (described above). In this form you attack with your claws and can't use weapon skills, but can alter your Light and Heavy attacks to ranged by Concentrated blood toggle skill. After the first 15 seconds in this form, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. Transformed form, first of all, looks like vampire, without horns, not very tall, have more predator stance, movements agile, have sharp claws. Not very important with or without wing stumps if the final look is good.
    Direction of visual effects(jpg):
    L2jJpNb.jpg
    Ultimate. First morph: Ancient blood. While use this ability you combine strengths of all stages of vampirism and keep the minimum weaknesses of stage 1(see the table above). This ultimate keeps your regular appearance, you can use all skills. After the first 15 seconds of using this ultimate, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. To highlight that the player activated this Ultimate visual effects should be added to his model. Not very bright, maybe some smoke or mist coming from the surface of the body and falls to the ground, when player moves, mist can leave a small trail.
    Direction of visual effects(jpg):
    rijeHm5.jpg

    Clarification: Both morphs can be tweaked, more buffs can be added according to balance. In fact, both ultimate morphs can be without transformation, if there will be enough options to customise your vampire character with appropriate skins and polymorphs.

    Thank you for reading!


    Summoning ritual: @Noxavian @Sephyr @Thevampirenight @TX12001rwb17_ESO @ShadowHvo @Vevvev @Lord-Otto @Cameron991 @Paradisius @navystylz_ESO @ApostateHobo @Darkstride @wild_kmacdb16_ESO @Alexium @Tessitura @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    Kj4jDNt.gif

    THIS is a vampire rework!

    THIS is what we were wanting. Not this current trash.

    I see so many ways to play this....Really love the bat swarm gapcloser and new ultimates. Also love how there is now a normal bite ability and vampiric drain extends the ultimate.

  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    Well if the people here are liking it then its a good idea and it has my support.
    However Mist form I would love to see remain a toggle like they are doing it with Greymoor but maybe with the old look instead of this newer one they are giving it.
    I love the idea of being able to feed in combat. That is very well something I want to see.
    Instead of Nightmare Morph for Memerozie I got a better one.
    Enthrall
    For ten seconds turns a non boss humanoid enemy into an ally. Causing them to attack their allies for the duration.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire
    It says on the Online Vampire page on the uesp( they have not upgraded it for Greymoor yet)
    At some point in development, a player vampire would have unlocked the ability to turn a low-level NPC into a thrall who would fight for them. This was cut for unknown reasons.[1].

    That is a feature I think could be put into the ability and I mean it would be a cool thing to do. Turn your evil enemies into your temp allies.

    Also would like to see the Mesmerize animation look like this when you do it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTeZZznIxUM
    Your hand going in that animation and bam enthralled. A lot like seen in the movie scene right there. Though just a couple second animation of doing that with the fingers.
    Would make it look cooler and make you feel more like a vampire when doing it.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on May 25, 2020 4:04AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • XomRhoK
    XomRhoK
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Cameron991 wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    Thank you all for reading.

    Don't focus much on numbers, i tried to avoid numbers in skills, but need them in passives to show progression. I can't test this numbers and i don't know power budget formula which devs in ZOS use. All numbers are approximate, there is no point to fine tune them if this concept will never get to the game. I wanted to show mechanics, interactions and base idea.

    About stage 4 vampirism. It intentionally have more weaknesses, no strengths and almost no passives, it supposed to be the stage where the player would not want to be. It stimulates to always feed, and to avoid situations where you can easily stay at certain stage of vampirism and never feed at all. Currently in Live and PTS servers some roles or playstyles have most benefits at most starved stage of vampirism, and they have no reason to feed. In this version vampires at most starved stage of vampirism are intentionally weak, and even if you find most benefits at stage 3 you will don't want to starve to stage 4 and will feed. In general player can starved to stage 4 if he used ultimate to long or if enemy player in PvP prevent his attempts to feed.
    Well if the people here are liking it then its a good idea and it has my support.
    However Mist form I would love to see remain a toggle like they are doing it with Greymoor but maybe with the old look instead of this newer one they are giving it.
    I love the idea of being able to feed in combat. That is very well something I want to see.
    Instead of Nightmare Morph for Memerozie I got a better one.
    Enthrall
    For ten seconds turns a non boss humanoid enemy into an ally. Causing them to attack their allies for the duration.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire
    It says on the Online Vampire page on the uesp( they have not upgraded it for Greymoor yet)
    At some point in development, a player vampire would have unlocked the ability to turn a low-level NPC into a thrall who would fight for them. This was cut for unknown reasons.[1].

    That is a feature I think could be put into the ability and I mean it would be a cool thing to do. Turn your evil enemies into your temp allies.

    Also would like to see the Mesmerize animation look like this when you do it.
    Your hand going in that animation and bam enthralled. A lot like seen in the movie scene right there. Though just a couple second animation of doing that with the fingers.
    Would make it look cooler and make you feel more like a vampire when doing it.

    I think toggleable Mist form will bring a lot of headache to balancing team, it's to cheap, for 800 Magicka you can cleans all snares and roots and block burst hit. The only way i see to balance this is to add initial cost, for example, 2000 Magicka to become mist and 800 Magicka for each next second in this form.
    And not toggable version allows to introduce AoE DoT ability in vampire kit.

    I also thought about something similar to Enthrall, at some point, but it has no implementation in PvP.

    I am not totally pleased with colors of Mesmerize skill and his morphs, but have no better picture examples to put.
    Edited by XomRhoK on May 25, 2020 4:18AM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    XomRhoK wrote: »

    About stage 4 vampirism. It intentionally have more weaknesses, no strengths and almost no passives, it supposed to be the stage where the player would not want to be. It stimulates to always feed, and to avoid situations where you can easily stay at certain stage of vampirism and never feed at all. Currently in Live and PTS servers some roles or playstyles have most benefits at most starved stage of vampirism, and they have no reason to feed. In this version vampires at most starved stage of vampirism are intentionally weak, and even if you find most benefits at stage 3 you will don't want to starve to stage 4 and will feed. In general player can starved to stage 4 if he used ultimate to long or if enemy player in PvP prevent his attempts to feed.

    Makes sense for a system like this to work when combat feeding is a thing. The biggest complaint I've seen people have who were against my ideas is the fact you can't feed reliably in dungeons and trials. I like how you addressed that in your OP and I wish you wrote this up back when the PTS was fresh. I hope ZOS implements at least half of the things you have posted here because it is really well thought out. Oblivion, If just the Concentrated Blood and Poison talons ability alone got implemented I'd be as happy as can be.
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • XomRhoK
    XomRhoK
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vevvev wrote: »
    XomRhoK wrote: »

    About stage 4 vampirism. It intentionally have more weaknesses, no strengths and almost no passives, it supposed to be the stage where the player would not want to be. It stimulates to always feed, and to avoid situations where you can easily stay at certain stage of vampirism and never feed at all. Currently in Live and PTS servers some roles or playstyles have most benefits at most starved stage of vampirism, and they have no reason to feed. In this version vampires at most starved stage of vampirism are intentionally weak, and even if you find most benefits at stage 3 you will don't want to starve to stage 4 and will feed. In general player can starved to stage 4 if he used ultimate to long or if enemy player in PvP prevent his attempts to feed.

    Makes sense for a system like this to work when combat feeding is a thing. The biggest complaint I've seen people have who were against my ideas is the fact you can't feed reliably in dungeons and trials. I like how you addressed that in your OP and I wish you wrote this up back when the PTS was fresh. I hope ZOS implements at least half of the things you have posted here because it is really well thought out. Oblivion, If just the Concentrated Blood and Poison talons ability alone got implemented I'd be as happy as can be.

    I started posted feedback when pre PTS youtube videos came out, half of this ideas i posted at feedback thread at the second day of PTS. They were not 100% thought out, there were no such a goal for me. But at the end of PTS i don't wanted to all my ideas and all ideas that players, including you posted on PTS forum just gone, so i decided to put part of them in one concept of gameplay that i want to see, maybe someone will find it usefull or at least fun to read and discuss =)
    Edited by XomRhoK on May 25, 2020 4:31AM
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    XomRhoK wrote: »

    I started posted feedback when pre PTS youtube videos came out, half of this ideas i posted at feedback thread at the second day of PTS. They were not 100% thought out, there were no such a goal for me. But at the end of PTS i don't wanted to all my ideas and all ideas that players, including you posted on PTS forum just gone, so i decided to put part of them in one concept of gameplay that i want to see, maybe someone will find it usefull or at least fun to read and discuss =)

    Oh, well that's depressing to think about. Then again that feedback thread is so massive now you can get lost in it and miss a lot. They really did ignore all feedback, didn't they?
    PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    ✭✭
    XomRhoK wrote: »
    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Cameron991 wrote: »
    Vevvev wrote: »
    ShadowHvo wrote: »
    Noxavian wrote: »

    Thank you all for reading.

    Don't focus much on numbers, i tried to avoid numbers in skills, but need them in passives to show progression. I can't test this numbers and i don't know power budget formula which devs in ZOS use. All numbers are approximate, there is no point to fine tune them if this concept will never get to the game. I wanted to show mechanics, interactions and base idea.

    About stage 4 vampirism. It intentionally have more weaknesses, no strengths and almost no passives, it supposed to be the stage where the player would not want to be. It stimulates to always feed, and to avoid situations where you can easily stay at certain stage of vampirism and never feed at all. Currently in Live and PTS servers some roles or playstyles have most benefits at most starved stage of vampirism, and they have no reason to feed. In this version vampires at most starved stage of vampirism are intentionally weak, and even if you find most benefits at stage 3 you will don't want to starve to stage 4 and will feed. In general player can starved to stage 4 if he used ultimate to long or if enemy player in PvP prevent his attempts to feed.
    Well if the people here are liking it then its a good idea and it has my support.
    However Mist form I would love to see remain a toggle like they are doing it with Greymoor but maybe with the old look instead of this newer one they are giving it.
    I love the idea of being able to feed in combat. That is very well something I want to see.
    Instead of Nightmare Morph for Memerozie I got a better one.
    Enthrall
    For ten seconds turns a non boss humanoid enemy into an ally. Causing them to attack their allies for the duration.
    https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vampire
    It says on the Online Vampire page on the uesp( they have not upgraded it for Greymoor yet)
    At some point in development, a player vampire would have unlocked the ability to turn a low-level NPC into a thrall who would fight for them. This was cut for unknown reasons.[1].

    That is a feature I think could be put into the ability and I mean it would be a cool thing to do. Turn your evil enemies into your temp allies.

    Also would like to see the Mesmerize animation look like this when you do it.
    Your hand going in that animation and bam enthralled. A lot like seen in the movie scene right there. Though just a couple second animation of doing that with the fingers.
    Would make it look cooler and make you feel more like a vampire when doing it.

    I think toggleable Mist form will bring a lot of headache to balancing team, it's to cheap, for 800 Magicka you can cleans all snares and roots and block burst hit. The only way i see to balance this is to add initial cost, for example, 2000 Magicka to become mist and 800 Magicka for each next second in this form.
    And not toggable version allows to introduce AoE DoT ability in vampire kit.

    I also thought about something similar to Enthrall, at some point, but it has no implementation in PvP.

    I am not totally pleased with colors of Mesmerize skill and his morphs, but have no better picture examples to put.

    Well they can nerf the block burst hit thing with Mist Form However would still like it to be a toggle. A;sp they could put something in where Enthrall does damage to players but Enthralls npcs/

    Could even say while in Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds or when Dueling, Sheogorath alters the Enthrall ability to become Hysteria for whatever reason and the victim becomes temporarily incapacitated with laughter or some other maddening effect which is random.
    Hysteria was a power in Vtm that the Malkavians were able to use.
    Would totally dig some Malkavian like vampiric powers.
    So Enthrall/Hysteria
    Would love something like that.



    Edited by Thevampirenight on May 25, 2020 5:02AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Paradisius
    Paradisius
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    I dont know whether I should be flattered or not to be pinged as part of the Vampire summoning circle! lol

    As for your ideas, this is quite amazing. Biting in combat gives me Vampyr vibes and that is always welcome. The stage benefits/detriments are good ideas but as some others have stated the values and effects should be tweaked, but the overall goal for your idea is amazing, and it is something I would much rather have. It really is an amazing write up and goes to show just how many people have really interesting ideas for a Vampire rework. Shows how much passion people can have for something like Vampirism!
  • Cameron991
    Cameron991
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    I love it all tbh the more I read it the more I want it lol. I want to feel like a vampire not like a berserker we have now
  • Tessitura
    Tessitura
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    I don't hate everything here, I am a little surprised to be mentioned, I appreciate that my opinion is valued at all for any reason.

    I am still not sold on the healing reduction as a alternative for the cost increase. I mean, it's not like I don't think it fits more thematically. I just think in pvp settings it would be way too difficult to over come, especially with the reduction thats already in place on top of the major defile we get hit with. The vampire heals need to be super strong for me to accept that, even in pve it can be rough.

    But this is a much more involved system which for sure seems a lot cooler, like I said I don't hate it and for sure like the idea of a gap closer and even the bite being worked into the combat. To be fair some of your ideas are a little over tuned, Nightmare stands out to me as that. And the passives might be too stacked, but then drop to underwhelming at stage four.I get that you want it to make you powerful, but that might be too powerful. Also poison mist is too stacked, and I feel like you are targeting the wrong crowd with it, since mistform is often used more by magicka builds then stamina builds. I guess I think most of the skills here are too stacked, but that doesn't make the premise of them a bad idea.

    I really like the idea of the abilities effects changing when you transform, I think thats a neat idea, and I even thought of something like that once, it for sure makes vamp more synergetic with it's own skills. It's honestly one of the best things you have going here. Its a idea I could see actually being taken and implemented in the game as a unique and fun mechanic.

    Your Bite ability is a interesting idea, I do like the idea of light and heavy attack replacing toggles too, its something that ZoS came up with for one ability and it feels like they are wasting potential by not ever using it for other skills and skill lines. Vampire and WW both are kind of perfect examples of skill lines that could make decent thematic use of that type of skill.

    Satiety is a interesting mechanic idea I like too. It could be a fun addition from a gameplay perspective, and ZoS as shown an interest in doing things like that with their corpse mechanic they put on necromancer. I consider it a positive suggestion and idea.

    I don't like down the middle split between mag and stamina you have for the morphs. But thats a fundamental disagreement I have with the way ZoS choose to handle the stamina magicka split. They could put two year between dev time and actually bother to develop two fully thought out skill lines, one for stamina builds, one for magicka, and then release them together, but thats a lot of work and I understand they don't want to do it. It just shafts us, we could of had two bloodlines, one magicka focused, one stam focused. we could have multiple weapon lines for both stam and magicka, we could have the world, and instead we get housing we have to share.

  • Sephyr
    Sephyr
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    Paradisius wrote: »
    I dont know whether I should be flattered or not to be pinged as part of the Vampire summoning circle! lol

    As for your ideas, this is quite amazing. Biting in combat gives me Vampyr vibes and that is always welcome. The stage benefits/detriments are good ideas but as some others have stated the values and effects should be tweaked, but the overall goal for your idea is amazing, and it is something I would much rather have. It really is an amazing write up and goes to show just how many people have really interesting ideas for a Vampire rework. Shows how much passion people can have for something like Vampirism!

    I was LITERALLY about to type the same thing. I'm glad I read through the thread before commenting on that. Hahaha!


    I do agree though. While the values need to be tweaked the rest is certainly a better idea toward a legitimate rework than what's currently about to go live. I can see a few things that would synergize really well with some sets I've been putting together in regards to thematics (that also kind of enhance the visuals of being a vampire), so that's also nice.

    I will stress that the bite mechanic is an opportunity missed as that's something that I was really hopeful for. I personally love giving people a scare in PvP with my vampire from stealth and I hate the fact that I'm being punished on Live for doing it as well as the soon to be implemented iteration on the PTS. It's absolutely bonkers to have that kind of restriction on someone who's willing to engage with the line. It's a shame that we could've had something like this, which is relatively EASY to implement. But what we got was literally just a lazily slopped together 'revamp'. It's a shame ZoS ignored the feedback thread. A daaaaaaaamn shame. Especially with that bite mechanic.
  • Aelorin
    Aelorin
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    Are these changes on the PTS yet? Would love to try them out :wink:
    And so the Elder Scrolls foretold.You will be shy, and I will be bold.
  • XomRhoK
    XomRhoK
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    Lord-Otto wrote: »
    Mesmerize should not deal damage and debuff and be unmitigatable, that's too much. The vulnerability debuff is interesting, if suboptimal for nightblades.
    Vevvev wrote: »
    I do agree with Lord-Otto though that mind magic shouldn't have that many effects all at the same time. Tone it down a bit for balance reasons ((Of course keep the things that make sense. Just a stun is so boring even if its cheap.)) and I can totally see myself using it.
    Tessitura wrote: »
    To be fair some of your ideas are a little over tuned, Nightmare stands out to me as that.

    I forgot to mention in original post(already edited) that Mesmerize and it morphs are single target skills. It were made to synergies with Vampiric Grip type skill in transformed form, because it's hard to pull several enemies and you as a player hardly will want to do so. So maybe now it will not look so overpowerd for you =)
    Edited by XomRhoK on May 25, 2020 12:19PM
  • Spectral_Force
    Spectral_Force
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    XomRhoK wrote: »
    Hello!
    Soon Greymoor chapter will be released and PTS cycle goes to its end, we already saw direction of vampire changes and i don’t like them in terms of skills and visual effects. So i wrote my point of view on all aspects of vampirism, inspired by all feedback on this forum. This changes are more of an overhaul of vampire skills, mechanics and stages of vampirism, more for my fun and with sliver hope, that this can be implemented as another vampire blood line in 4th quater DLC. It will be a long read, but it's structured and with pictures =) Hope you will like it, and if so, then click "agree" or "awesome", spread the word and summon ZOS devs in this thread.
    Enjoy reading!

    Overview
    This version of vampirism allows to play with minor usage of vampire skills and feed once every 4 hours or play with full kit of thematic vampire skills (AoE, DoT, gap closer, dash) with active feeding in combat, in which vampire skills will help you to get behind the enemy. Stages of vampirism are not linear increased in strength, but shifted from magically powerful fully sated vampires with more human appearance and bodies full of blood to feral and physically powerful hungry vampires with more undeath appearance and bodies, the last 4th stage is starved vampires, alive, but weak, which encourages players to feed. One morph of the ultimate allows to transform in a different form, other morph allows to remain in regular vampire appearance but with increased power. Skills and passive, in my opinion, will suit all classes and roles(tank, healer, DD), magicka or stamina. All numbers can be tweaked and balanced, the main purpose is to give unique, thematic playstyle and feel for vampires.

    Stages of vampirism

    Stage 1: Vampires at this stage are fully sated, have more human appearance and bodies full of blood. At this stage their magical powers are at full potential.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +10%
    - Health recovery -25%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -10%
    Strengths:
    - Spell damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while channeling
    - Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

    Stage 2: At this stage vampires start to lose their humanity and part of magical bonuses, their appearance and body become more undeath, but more physically stronger.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +20%
    - Health recovery -50%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -20%
    Strengths:
    - Spell and weapon damage increased by 150 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while channeling
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 15% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - Increase range of Vampiric Drain by 10 meters

    Stage 3: Vampires at this stage are hungry, they lose their magical bonuses, appearance and body become more undeath, but hunger make them feral, their hunting instincts are growing, they gain more physical power and speed.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +30%
    - Health recovery -80%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -30%
    Strengths:
    - Weapon damage increased by 300 for vampire skills
    Passives:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    - Increase your movement speed by 10%
    - Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - No speed penalty while channeling

    Stage 4: Vampires at this stage are starved, their appearance and body become more undeath, all their magical and physical bonuses are outweighed by weak state of this stage, except their unstoppable hunger and ability to sense their preys.
    Weaknesses:
    - Flame damage taken +40%
    - Health recovery -100%
    - Healing taken from non vampire skills -40%
    Strengths:
    - None
    Passives:
    - Detect creatures. Can sense(see) sneaking, invisible creatures and creatures behind obstacles. (Maybe except creatures without blood: dwarven automatons, skeletons etc. Not very big radius, to prevent abusing in PvP, checking number of enemies in keeps)
    - Can't be interrupted while Feeding or using Vampire Drain
    Lost passives compared to the previous stage:
    - Decrease the time it takes to enter Sneak by 50%
    - No speed penalty while blocking
    - Reduce your damage taken by up to 25% based on your missing Health (from 100%)
    - Decrease your fall damage taken by 25%
    - Increase your movement speed by 10%
    - Sneak don't cost resources. Allows you to sprint in Sneak
    Table for stages of vampirism, for easier comparison.
    wZdljzO.jpg

    Health recovery weakness can be lower in shadows and inside buildings, for example by 20%, for additional roleplay element and vampiric gameplay. Don't know if this possible to achieve at ESO engine and at what cost.
    Regarding appearance. There always will be players with different preferences of which vampire stage they want to play and how their vampire must look, more human or more undeath. The only good option, in my opinion, is to release more appropriate skins and polymorphs for vampires, human-like, undeath-like, with bat faces, as some vampires in Volkihar clan and so on. There is no point in strict restrictions, because if you want to hide your vampiric appearance you already can, by using skin or closed helmet.

    Feeding
    Feeding out of combat.
    If you feed on NPC out of combat and from behind you will kill him, as it will be on Live servers, but with longer bite animation, to emphasize that you dried him for the last drop. Player can choose not to kill NPC, you can use Mesmorize skill on NPC and this will allows you to feed on him in front, with shorter bite animation and keep him alive, it will also help in small rooms with small space behind NPC. If you kill NPC by drying him out you will restore all Health, if you keep him alive you will restore some portion of Health. Player also can feed on another player, but it will not kill him, it will start fight and activate Feeding in combat mechanics.

    Feeding in combat
    This is crucial mechanics, which will add a lot of fun and vampiric feel to the combat, in my opinion. While in combat, you also can feed, to do so enemy must be stunned or player must be behind enemy(at melee range, no need to sneak). If at least one of the conditions fulfilled player can press "X" button and feed, animation must be very fast and precise, for example, vampire turn into the mist and instantly is behind enemy already in appropriate pose to execute the bite, all animations no longer than one second. To prevent collisions with animations of another player who can use Break Free or Dodge Roll both players, vampire and victim, can become stunned and invulnerable(covered with cloud of mist or bats) for that one second, this also will prevent setting up of burst combos, or killing victim by another players while he get bitten.

    Skills

    New crucial mechanics of vampire gameplay. Vampires will have Satiety bar under Magicka bar, similar to werewolves. This bar will be divided at four parts, four stages. r0ggy13.jpg
    Satiety will be slowly drained and will deplete one stage at 4 hours, but usage of vampire skills will deplete Satiety bar much faster, around 10-20 skills per stage. You can replenish Satiety for a little amount by using Vampire Drain skill, but this skill can't lower vampire stage. To lower vampire stage and replenish bar for one full stage you must bite enemy in combat, feed outside of combat or use Bloody Mara(to prevent abusing of Bloody Maras it could have 3-5 minutes timer).

    *) Bite. Don't need to be slotted, ability out of skill line. While in combat, if enemy is stunned or you are behind him in melee range you can Bite him, dealing X damage and heal for Y health, scales from highest stat or have fixed values, maybe in percentages. Also lowers stage of vampirism by one and replenish Satiety bar by full stage.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    Jq0u8Im.gif
    Clarification: Core and very thematic element of gameplay. Allows you to heal and fuel the use of vampire skills. Animation must be fast, around 1 second.

    1) First morph: Poison Talons. Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with melee attacks with the talons, each attack with talons stacks Corpse Poison, after 5 stacks slows enemy by 90% for 1 second. This slow can help you get behind enemy for Bite. Cost Stamina to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Physical damage, restore Stamina on Heavy attacks. Attacks looks like those Bloodfiend NPC have, Heavy attack looks like series of 3-4 attacks.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    eG1CgGl.gif
    Second morph: Concentrated blood Toggle skill. Replaces your regular Light and Heavy attacks with ranged magical Light and Heavy attacks, each attack restore Health a little and increase Healing done by 1% for 8 seconds, maximum 8 stacks. Cost Magicka to activate, slightly decreases Satiety on each attack, Magical damage, restore Magicka on Heavy attacks. Heavy attack is AoE, with a short charging time.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    liSTIuI.gifuSqGsxJ.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: No cost to toggle on and don't decreases Satiety on each attack.

    Clarification: Thematic vampire attacks. Replaces regular LA and HA, because of that weapon enchantments stop working while this skill is toggle on, but your LA and HA gets another properties: powerful slow or increased Healing done. Also with this toggle you can choose what type of recources you want to restore on HA, you can restore Stamina with your sword and Magicka with this toggle. At the moment of the attack, weapon disappears from the player’s hands, similar to psijic Mend Wounds skill. If you prefer vampire aesthetic in spammable attacks you can go HA build and attack primarily with claws and red magic spheres, while keeping the opportunity to use regular spammable skills.

    2) First morph: Bat Swarm Dash. Dash, no target needed. Turns into swarm of bats and fly forward dealing X Magical damage to all enemies in the way, small group of bats stick to each enemy, continues to distract them and deal additional Y Magical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and apply Minor Maim. Range 15 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Looks more like Vampire NPCs dash with some magic ball inside of swarm, but bats must stick to the central ball all the way.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    Im1gxpm.gif
    Second morph: Hunger Swarm. Gap closer, needs target. Turns into swarm of bats and fly to the enemy dealing X Physical damage to all enemies in the way and heal you for part of the damage done, small group of bats stick to each enemy, keep dealing additional Y Physical damage every 1 second for 10 seconds and heal you for part of the damage done. You materialize behind the enemy, for easier Bite. Range 22 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Visuals without magical element.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    lesK3Wb.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Swarm of the bats constantly fly around player in a small radius and deal damage to nearby enemies. Damage type and additional properties depends on morph of appropriate skill.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    jsqfN0E.gif

    Clarification: Canonic vampire power, have Magicka and Stamina morphs. Can be used as dash or gap closer or as a DoT ability.

    3) First morph: Vampiric Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy dealing X Magic damage, healing you for Y Health and generating 5 Ultimate every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. Visuals looks like the flow of blood. Old Invigorating Drain skill had very good visuals and sound, perhaps, flow could be a little wider.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    3PqsAlk.gif
    Second morph: Relentless Drain. Ranged, channeling ability. Draws a stream of blood from enemy decreasing his Health for X% of his maximum Health and healing you for Y% of your missing Health every 1 second for 3 seconds. Range 12 meters, cost Magicka, have damage cap, don't decreases Satiety, on the contrary moderately replenish Satiety bar. This morph also looks like the flow of blood, difference in visuals can be achieved by slightly different color, speed of flow, particles near hand.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    6nEVsQm.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Can lower stage of vampirism, additionally restores small portions of Magicka and Stamina

    Clarification: Important spell in vampire kit. This ability allows you to deal average damage, restore Health and Satiety. Its range increases to 22 meters on the first stage of vampirism due to passive skill. It can't lower stage of vampirism, so if you use vampire skills a lot and don't use Bite for some reason, you must use Vampiric Drain more often to fuel your vampiric power.

    4) Unmorphed: Mesmerize. Single target stun. Mesmerizes target for 4 seconds by putting hypnotic effect around his head. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    qnrkFuz.gif
    First morph: Nightmare. Single target stun. Creates a hypnotic effect around the head of the enemy, fearing him for 4 seonds. The enemy begins to see nightmare visions, which afflicting him with Minor Vulnerability and dealing X Magic damage each 1 second for 10 seconds. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    xouqaRa.gif
    Second morph: Dizziness. Single target stun. Quickly turns the opponent with his back to himself by putting hypnotic effect around his head, stuns him for 4 seconds and set Off Balance. This make him easy target to Bite. Don't needs eye contact, can't be blocked. Range 10 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    lkZWBHM.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: Increases range to 22 meters. Pulls an enemy to you, deals X Physical damage, based on your highest offensive stat and and after use on of the skill morphs. Works similar to Fiery Grip skills. Overall animation and visuals similar to Vampiric Grip from TES: Skyrim.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    sdl7rE9.gif

    Clarification: When used against peaceful NPCs always works unmorphed Mesmerize skill.

    5) First morph: Poison mist. Invisability + Mist form + Ground AoE DoT ability. Dissolve into a mist form for 4 seconds and create cloud of poison mist around you in a large area which deals X Poison damage to all enemies in the area every 1 second for 10 seconds. Entering this form grants you invisibility, Major Expedition, reducing your damage taken by 75%, removes and grants immunity to all disabling and immobilization effects, but you cannot be healed. If you leave area of the mist cloud you will become visible. Invisibility and increased movement speed allows you to avoid damage and get behind enemy to Bite him. Radius 8 meters, cost Stamina, moderately decreases Satiety on each use.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    s4FwsVq.gif
    First morph: Blood mist. Ranged ground AoE ability. Launch mist projectile on the groud to the targeted location which deals damage to all enemies in the way for X Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. When projectile hit targeted location it creates cloud of blood mist which deals damage to all enemies in the area for Y Magic damage and heals you for part of the damage dealt. While you stays inside the mist heal from this ability is doubled. Range 22 meters, radius 6 meters, cost Magicka, moderately decreases Satiety on each use. Heal from the mist cloud looks like small parts of the Blood mist returns to the player.
    Direction of visual effects(gif):
    VPmZS7r.gif
    Additional features while in Transformed form: While you stays inside the mist damage of this ability is doubled.

    Clarification: Melee and ranged options for ground AoE. First morph looks like you instantly disappear in the mist cloud and can be used to avoid, mitigate damage or get behind enemy to Bite him.

    6) Ultimate. First morph: Transformed form. Transforms into more powerful form. All vampire skills receive additional features (described above). In this form you attack with your claws and can't use weapon skills, but can alter your Light and Heavy attacks to ranged by Concentrated blood toggle skill. After the first 15 seconds in this form, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. Transformed form, first of all, looks like vampire, without horns, not very tall, have more predator stance, movements agile, have sharp claws. Not very important with or without wing stumps if the final look is good.
    Direction of visual effects(jpg):
    L2jJpNb.jpg
    Ultimate. First morph: Ancient blood. While use this ability you combine strengths of all stages of vampirism and keep the minimum weaknesses of stage 1(see the table above). This ultimate keeps your regular appearance, you can use all skills. After the first 15 seconds of using this ultimate, your Satiety begins to decrease, you can replenish Satiety by Vampiric Drain skill or by Bite. Ultimate ends when player wants or when Satiety decrease to zero. To highlight that the player activated this Ultimate visual effects should be added to his model. Not very bright, maybe some smoke or mist coming from the surface of the body and falls to the ground, when player moves, mist can leave a small trail.
    Direction of visual effects(jpg):
    rijeHm5.jpg

    Clarification: Both morphs can be tweaked, more buffs can be added according to balance. In fact, both ultimate morphs can be without transformation, if there will be enough options to customise your vampire character with appropriate skins and polymorphs.

    Thank you for reading!

    EDITS:
    - Forgot to mention in original post, that Mesmerize and it morphs are Single target stun.


    Summoning ritual: @Noxavian @Sephyr @Thevampirenight @TX12001rwb17_ESO @ShadowHvo @Vevvev @Lord-Otto @Cameron991 @Paradisius @navystylz_ESO @ApostateHobo @Darkstride @wild_kmacdb16_ESO @Alexium @Tessitura @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
    Kj4jDNt.gif

    Wow. Just... wow.

    Words cannot express how amazed I am after reading this post, and at the same time how utterly devastated I am that this is highly unlikely to make it into the game at all, and if it did, it would probably be a sad stump of the original idea and would be delivered five years from now.

    You, sir stroke madam, are the Vampire Jesus (Caine? Or is that Vampire Daddy?). You've obviously put a lot of time and effort into researching all our ideas and suggestions on the PTS forum, and have shown unrestrained passion for the Vampire skill line. Reading through this, you seem to have addressed most issues we've raised in a way that feels very unique, while at the same time keeping it reasonably grounded in what we know the engine can achieve. Naturally the values would need tweaking and testing, but your proposed system has immense potential.

    If this was a $50 DLC, I'd buy it twice over.
    I've unearthed the Legendary Antiquity of Mêlée Island and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sounds like it would be good but lets face it...

    ZOS would never do it, best you can hope for is a slight alteration of the existing abilities..

    Put all the weaknesses at stage 1

    - 20% weakness to fire
    - 0% cheaper Vampire abilities
    - 12% more expensive abilities
    - 100% slower Health regeneration

    Put all the strengths at stage 4

    - 3% weakness to fire
    - 24% cheaper Vampire abilities
    - 0% more expensive abilities
    - 0% slower Health Regeneration

    And change the features around so you look healthy when you are at your strongest and now you would have an incentive to feed, at stage 1 you would have many weaknesses and few strengths and would effectively be weaker then a mortal but at stage 4 you would have few weaknesses and many strengths and would be stronger then a mortal but you would need to feed to sustain it.
    Edited by TX12001rwb17_ESO on May 25, 2020 1:35PM
  • IARTOI
    IARTOI
    ✭✭✭
    At least just put some stamina morphs to vampire skills.

    Blood for blood (Eviscerate morph) should be scaled with the highest stats. And deal magical or physical damage like soul trap, alternate spammable for stamina classes.

    Drain vigor (Vampire Drain morph) can be a stamina morph and deals physical damage over time.

    %90 of stamina classes are using dizzing swing without alternate at least give us some options. It shouldnt be that hard to implement these features into game before you release it tomorrow.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert
  • XomRhoK
    XomRhoK
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    Sounds like it would be good but lets face it...

    ZOS would never do it, best you can hope for is a slight alteration of the existing abilities..

    Yep. As i said at the original post i wrote this more for my fun and with slender hope to implementation.
    Saddest part for me that they redone visuals and sounds for all old abilities, and i don't like how they did this. New vampire skills not impressed me either. If i have inscription "Vampire" in character window it doesn't make me feel that i play as one, i need some immersion, and with new visuals and sounds i almost have none. Numbers can be tweaked, but this visuals and sounds will stay for a long time =(
    Edited by XomRhoK on May 26, 2020 1:48AM
  • Darkstride
    Darkstride
    ✭✭
    Just realized I was summoned.

    Hi.

    This was very well thought out. I was willing to at least settle for a functional Blood Frenzy (even though it makes no sense as all vampire) and more impactful visuals on Eviscerate.

    So sad to see game development that completely disregards genuinely constructive feedback.
  • XomRhoK
    XomRhoK
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    In Greymoor intro cutscene vampires have gap closer =) (at 1:18)
    https://youtu.be/JK5t5RWUB5w?t=78
  • Tammany
    Tammany
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    Some crazy grandpa ideas.
  • ApostateHobo
    ApostateHobo
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    Oohhh interesting ideas me likey, sadly zos will probably never look at this and will continue to ignore all the negative feedback for the new vamp skills. I just wish they'd make us at least as cool as the npc enemy vampires. Give us some of those skills dang it, and take away the cost increase because it makes absolutely zero sense. "Oh I became a vampire suddenly I no longer remember how to cast spells or swing a sword oh no" like seriously what? Nonsensical.
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