The thing that annoys me the most....it's a lazy update for grind.
Lazy wazy.

Ackwalan wrote: »

He's right. Just because you bought a 2018 car doesn't mean you get the 2020 model when it comes out.

Traditionally is a game with levels, all gear becomes worthless when a new expansion comes out. ESO does not use traditional level system, but that doesn't mean you get the new stuff handed to you.

Just that it´s not new stuff.

ZOS nerfed the old weapons to then introduce "new ones" that reintroduce the bonus that they originally patched away.

It´s like a car company selling you a car with 4 seats in 2018.
Then they steal two seats during annual checkup in 2019.
Then they reintroduce the same car you already bought with 4 seats as a "new" 2020 model and kindly tell you that you may purchase it again if you want 4 seats for the same price that you ALREADY paid in 2018.

If that isn´t a scam i don´t know what is.
I don´t know how someone can make such a statement with a straight face - which considering the various "heh" comments he was probably laughing his behind off about how stupid we customers are.

This whole thing has been thoroughly discussed by now. I am a bit sad to see that Baloo didn't represent his/our side of the argument well, but nobody can really fault him for that.

There are two different points of view on this:

"Perfected MA weapons are new gear" VS "Perfected MA weapons are a buff to vMA weapons"

The developers think that perfected vMA weapons are entirely new items but they are mistaken, even if they coded it that way, because they don't see weapons the way we do. We see these items as rewards for the content and the content did not change. Nothing about veteran maelstrom arena is different than it used to be. There is no hardmode and no justification for a higher tier gear beyond what we currently own. By completing vMA and the associated grind, we obtained the right to own veteran Maelstrom Arena weapons. We did it on the hardest difficulty, so we deserve the reward for the hardest difficulty.

People defend this by saying that it's not different than the addition of any other new gear, and they would be right for any other MMO than ESO. Because ever since the removal of leveled content and the introduction of the CP system as a replacement for veteran ranks, ESO had become the game where gear never gets outdated.
This has been a core value of the game to the point where the developers said that they would give us a headsup one year in advance if they are planning on raising the gear level again!
The decision to not give us perfected replacement weapons for the vMA weapons we currently own is in the spirit of raising the gear level again. It is artificial. Opposed to that, a natural gear progression comes from introducing new content or updating older gear to a new, more desireable state.

To put it in terms of @ZOS_RichLambert's car quote.
This is not demanding the 2020 model to replace your 2018 model when it comes out.
This is us taking our 2020 model to the workshop because it got into an accident and needs repair, but instead of repairing anything about it, the car repair man refuses and says that we could buy a whole new 2020 model in perfect conditions that we can buy if we don't like that our old 2020 model doesn't run as well as it used to before the accident. Then he goes to the back of the car where it says 2020 and slaps a sticker on it that say 2018 and starts referring to our 2020 model as a 2018 from there on.

BrownChicken wrote: »

Many players complain that it’s as if the vMA and the vDSA are very hard. Guys, these arenas are now complete with eyes closed, where even the average player has much higher dps than the players had at the time these arenas were released.
However, yes. I have been in them so many times that now I just do not want to return to them again.

Its the latter. Not the difficulty of the content, but the grind.

Many players complain as if they'd rather not farm VMA and vDSA again for X times in order to get the upgraded version of weapons, even though the content hasn't changed.

I honestly feel like this is just another move to push out endgame players, so they can have more server resources for pve quest crown shop whales.

Ackwalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

He's right. Just because you bought a 2018 car doesn't mean you get the 2020 model when it comes out.

Traditionally is a game with levels, all gear becomes worthless when a new expansion comes out. ESO does not use traditional level system, but that doesn't mean you get the new stuff handed to you.

Just that it´s not new stuff.

ZOS nerfed the old weapons to then introduce "new ones" that reintroduce the bonus that they originally patched away.

It´s like a car company selling you a car with 4 seats in 2018.
Then they steal two seats during annual checkup in 2019.
Then they reintroduce the same car you already bought with 4 seats as a "new" 2020 model and kindly tell you that you may purchase it again if you want 4 seats for the same price that you ALREADY paid in 2018.

If that isn´t a scam i don´t know what is.
I don´t know how someone can make such a statement with a straight face - which considering the various "heh" comments he was probably laughing his behind off about how stupid we customers are.

Well it's more of taking out a cup holder then 2 full seats. The perfected version isn't a Jesus staff.

Cup holder makes it seem irrelevant - which it is not.
It´s worth 80% of a setbonus

Considering 5p bonuses are aimed to be between 2 and 3 normal bonuses (and monstersets/ability altering weapons should be comparable in power to those) i could settle for taking 1 seat away.
That would roughly be comparable in terms of value taken away.
Ability altering bonus = 2.5 bonuses worth
Statbonus = 0.8 bonuses worth
Removes roughly 1/4 of the items value.

So yeah. Just replace 2 seats with 1 seat.
That´s roughly what it translates to in terms of power when we look at zos design goals.

Elsonso wrote: »

Jacozilla wrote: »

NavalOffisah wrote: »

That car logic would make sense if this was a brand new arena and people wanted the weapons from that for free. But this is like taking that 2018 car that you own, rebadging it as 2020, then saying guys you can't just have the 2020 for free when its actually the 2018 you already owned the whole time.

Agreed. But an even better reply to the analogy needs to include that for many of us, we once owned the original VMA weapons pre-original nerf.

So using this car analogy, it would be I had 2018 model w/600 hp engine, had the car forcibly confiscated and given back a 2019 model with 400hp engine, then had that same 2019 model with 400hp engine rebadged as "2020" model and told I need to rebuy my own car with weaker features than the 2018 I originally owned.

We love our car analogies in here!

Yours is a little incorrect. When they removed the enchantments, they added in a set bonus. We can quibble about whether the set bonus is the same as the enchantment, but with the new set bonus model, you can add your own enchantment on top of the set bonus.

Given that, it is like you have a 2018 model with a 600 hp engine, which they forcibly confiscated and replace with a 2019 model that also has a 600 hp engine, but includes provisions for a turbo charger. Then, in 2020, they introduce a new car that has an 800 hp engine and provisions for a turbo charger.

Still not an accurate analogy, but a little closer.

I mean - it could also be worse.

Atleast most weapons don´t get completely trashed like asylum perfected destro and asylum bow.

But it when it comes to my freetime i have this approach:

This is what happens when you introduce a semblance of vertical progression in a casual horizontal progression game.

HankTwo wrote: »

@virtus753

Just check my post #10 on the first page or check out the official eso discord (https://discord.gg/elderscrollsonline) yourself to confirm Slashlurk's identity. I definitely agree, that the devs should have given the players an official statement, and the fact that they didn't was the main reason why I posted this here.

Yes, and thank you very much for posting it!

idk wrote: »

I agree with Rich that we have not earned the new weapons as they have never been in-game before. We earned the existing weapons that will still be available.

We asked for perfected vMA and Master weapons and I am glad we got them. I will gladly do the time to get the new weapons.

Not really, VMA weapons had 1pc bonuses before, and were removed.

Now bonuses are added back to these weapons, and come from the very difficulty/mode we have already farmed.

I wonder how people would feel if they removed the stat bonuses from Perf Lokke for example, and than later added them back, but not to existing items, so you would have to re-farm them

Beacuse thats basically whats happening, and thats why so many people are upset.

Or imagine ZOS decided to remove 50% of your gold from your account, and told you to regrind it.

tmbrinks wrote: »

For everybody saying they "nerfed" the original weapons (and I used to say this too)

They changed it from an enchantment, to a set bonus.

Once they made it a set bonus, and you could re-enchant the staff with a berserker glyph. IT WAS A BUFF!!! to the damage that was done while equipping the staff/bow

So this analogy of them "removing two seats" is patently false and incorrect.

Am I upset that they won't be upgraded automatically, yeah. But to use a false argument isn't fair either.

Yet BRP weapons were given those set bonuses from the get-go, and you could enchant them. Hmmm

When it comes to blackrose items, the correct analogy would be to make the current perfected weapons drop in normal mode and then release an even better 'super-perfected' version in veteran after the patch.