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Unpopular Opinion: Killable Guards

  • L_Nici
    L_Nici
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    Play PvP, there you can kill guards all day.
    PC|EU
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    Play PvP, there you can kill guards all day.

    Cyrodiil is not the issue being discussed here.
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  • Sephyr
    Sephyr
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    Casterial wrote: »
    notyuu wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.

    is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you

    Guards do not instantly kill you initally

    the damage the guards do starts at about a 5K wack...and goes up based on how much you hit them back EVEUTALLY reaching 1-shot levels.

    Source: I've literally ran around towns killing npcs [for bounty achievements] whit a conga line of guards hitting and chasing over the course of almost half an hour and they only did more than 5-5.7K per hit when i stopped and hit them back

    Their damage increases the longer they're in combat for, running from them sometimes makes them reset.

    ^This. I've been able to get on top of some high vantage points above guards and I've had them engaged in combat for around eight minutes or so (not attacking, just 'engaged'). Eventually, they'll pull out a crossbow and just pop a cap in you and steal your gold even when you're somewhere where they can't even physically touch you.
  • xXMeowMeowXx
    xXMeowMeowXx
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    Casterial wrote: »
    Nopes....guards should get buffed instead with increased damage. They should also be able to summon other guards to destroy the bad puppy offenders!!

    -> Syvarra's Scales
    (4 Items) Reduces your damage taken from guards by 20%. :o

    What a useless set lol

    Not really for niche builds but why should guards be killable....?

    I would like to see the justice system where a person gets something like ‘The Mark of the Thief’. This would make that player open season to other players and once they’re killed they should get penalized.

    Maybe a percentage of their gold, or a time set until they can go into any towns or cities again. Though I would really prefer a debuff where the offender can’t run in a city or town and can only walk for three days. No mount usage either for the set time too.
  • TheShadowScout
    TheShadowScout
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    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.
    ...and while that is not really all that immersive, I can understand the reasoning behind it...
    Casterial wrote: »
    This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.
    Its still fine if you know how to deal with them. In most situations anyhow.
    Casterial wrote: »
    Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
    ...but only if you are very, very bad. And I don't mean justice-wise, I mean... build wise.

    Because if you have the guard evasion skills, you DO have a more then decent chance to get away from them (unless you happen to draw their ire while in a small building)

    Just run. Pop selfheals, CC break their root, and keep running. Use the pathing system against them by jumping over whatever you can, and if there is water nearby, hop into that for a wet but pretty certain getaway. DON'T try invisibility, that sort of thing is a bad idea... but running, that has worked for me four times out of five when I messed up my crime-ing.
    Casterial wrote: »
    I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
    It is a thing so we don't have griefer guilds wipe out all the guards and then the whole toem to impede other peoples enjoyment of the game. And we both know there are some people who would do just that.

    Just like we all know that if they had made a "killable guards, spawning more response guards on death" system, -some- people would have gone and went like "Let's see if we can make enough guards spawn to crash the server..."
    Again, we know there are some like that.

    That being said..
    ...
    ...yeah, I too would have preferred a more immersive system for guards then them being immortal demigods.

    Which could have been achieved simply by making them tough, yet technically killable... but fiding off a "arrest assailant" spell that wraps anyone who tries to fight them in unbreakable "Stendarrs Chains of Justice" CC when they get hurt a bit... say, at half HP?
    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.
    Yeah, that too.
    And definitely some better consequences for all the crime as well... but... been there, posted that:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/498004/for-great-justice-ii ;)
  • xXMeowMeowXx
    xXMeowMeowXx
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    L_Nici wrote: »
    Play PvP, there you can kill guards all day.

    @L_Nici Lmao, it is always fun watching adds wipe noobs out :D
  • Miraslova
    Miraslova
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    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.

    This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.

    Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.

    One problem:
    Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you

    Great Examples of Guards:
    Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
    In Comparison:
    We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?


    In Summary:
    Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.

    I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
    Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.

    This isn't WoW and trust me that's turned into a real joke.
    "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    Miraslova wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.

    This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.

    Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.

    One problem:
    Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you

    Great Examples of Guards:
    Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
    In Comparison:
    We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?


    In Summary:
    Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.

    I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
    Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.

    This isn't WoW and trust me that's turned into a real joke.

    It hasn't though, I still play it. Yes, BFA for WoW is bad, but the game still makes almost double what ESO makes with just subscriptions.
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  • Starlock
    Starlock
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    Casterial wrote: »
    twev wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    AlnilamE wrote: »
    No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
    I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.

    The fact is, you can steal when trying to interact with crafting writs, guild stores, or just exploring. Its pretty bad that you'll randomly steal and usually results in a guard beating you to death. Also, a class shouldn't be punished, especially for people who paid $40 for it.

    Why are you opposed to guards being killable? Does it ruin your immersion? Because for me, a person not being killable means they're a Daedric Prince, and clearly.... They are not.

    I don't see whether you're on PC or not, but Dolgubbins Lazy Writ Crafter has an option that keeps you from accidentally stealing while crafting and turning in writs.
    It turns on when you take a writ from the board and turns back off after you've cleared your outstanding writs.

    It wont solve your immersion with the rest of your points, but it WILL keep you from committing theft while just trying to do your writs.


    Aye, I use this. But in general its just a weird thing for a game thats selling point is immersion and story telling....And then we have guards that just shatter that immersion :/

    Know what’s more immersion breaking? Other players. Just in general. But especially what other players would inevitably do if guards were killable.
  • Miraslova
    Miraslova
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    Casterial wrote: »
    Miraslova wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.

    This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.

    Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.

    One problem:
    Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you

    Great Examples of Guards:
    Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
    In Comparison:
    We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?


    In Summary:
    Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.

    I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
    Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.

    This isn't WoW and trust me that's turned into a real joke.

    It hasn't though, I still play it. Yes, BFA for WoW is bad, but the game still makes almost double what ESO makes with just subscriptions.

    God I don't play it at all, it bores the hell out of me, sure as hell wouldn't pay for that crap.
    "An it harm none, do what thou wilt"
  • TX12001rwb17_ESO
    TX12001rwb17_ESO
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    Why not make them killable but the higher your bounty the less damage you do to guards and the more you take?
  • Scion_of_Yggdrasil
    Scion_of_Yggdrasil
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    1. As far as necromancers go, I like how skills will give you a bounty. I have not made a necromancer yet, but plan to next once I finish my warden. My first ES game was ES3: Morrowind, so I love the reference to the... moral view of necromancy, as its been a recurring theme across all ES games, including ES5: Skyrim (its not forbidden, but the college eludes to the old beliefs and basically scoff at those who find it evil).
    2. I wouldn't want guards killable for one reason... I don't want to constantly see people fighting/killing guards every time I come to town. The true conflict in Tamriel is the war between factions, not the rampant crime rate. lol I could see guard killing getting out of hand if it was treated like a world boss, not to mention how easy it would be to accidentally get attacked by a guard if, say, a group decided to try and take one on in the middle of town while I'm just passing through
    3. I see mention of fixing accidental theft. Totally agree. I turned off "friendly fire" because I kept accidentally attacking merchants with an ability while exiting the menus. It would be nice to turn off accidental theft similarly.
    4. IF guards were made killable... I'd want it to be because they can take you to prison. Then you'd have the option to escape (stealthily or otherwise). Or serve time (you could simply log out and log back in, or wait a few real time minutes before they release you). Or try to persuade/bribe a guard for a lower fee than your bounty, but then still have to sneak out or be attacked by the other guards. The higher the bounty, the longer the wait time before being release from jail (you could simply play another character if, say, you slaughtered a town and have to wait 2 hours before being released from jail, or.... break out/pay the bounty)? Then you escape through a sewer or cave. IN THIS CASE, only guards within the prison are killable.
  • Sange13
    Sange13
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    It's only an unpopular on this forum where the fanboys stand in a circular firing squad making stupid arguments about things that don't make sense and asking for changes that would utterly ruin the game whilst simultaneously dog-piling anyone that says anything that makes even the slightest bit of sense.
    IGN: Sange-13
  • Tammany
    Tammany
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    Allow to kill these people who kill guards and iam up.
  • Knightpanther
    Knightpanther
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    Its unpopular for a reason, it would be bloody stupid just like it was in WOW.

    Be Safe
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    Its unpopular for a reason, it would be bloody stupid just like it was in WOW.

    Be Safe

    Killing guards in WoW wasn't stupid, you had sieges for cities, achievements in enemy cities, guards dropped almost nothing, rooted, slowed, stunned, dismounted, and called other guards to your location. Enemy players could see their guards/announcements and find the area and clear it out.
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  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    Miraslova wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Miraslova wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.

    This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.

    Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.

    One problem:
    Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you

    Great Examples of Guards:
    Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
    In Comparison:
    We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?


    In Summary:
    Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.

    I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
    Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.

    This isn't WoW and trust me that's turned into a real joke.

    It hasn't though, I still play it. Yes, BFA for WoW is bad, but the game still makes almost double what ESO makes with just subscriptions.

    God I don't play it at all, it bores the hell out of me, sure as hell wouldn't pay for that crap.

    To each their own, personally I find WoW better in most aspects, except PVP.
    Sange13 wrote: »
    It's only an unpopular on this forum where the fanboys stand in a circular firing squad making stupid arguments about things that don't make sense and asking for changes that would utterly ruin the game whilst simultaneously dog-piling anyone that says anything that makes even the slightest bit of sense.

    Forums here usually chew everyone out, I had to change it to unpopular so people would stop with the first few post and understand its an opinion/suggestion.

    in some form or way i think justice system needs a revamp, its already locked behind a pay wall (not rlly, but TG/DBH)
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  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.

    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.

    It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.

    In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.

    I don't see the point. Basically you are saying let us kill guards but make the penalty so bad nobody will kill guards.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.

    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.

    It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.

    In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.

    I don't see the point. Basically you are saying let us kill guards but make the penalty so bad nobody will kill guards.

    Yes, so instead of running or just forcing yourself to die to guards, you kill it and move on. Due to how bizarre guard behavior is with chasing / attacking, this would be fine.
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  • TropicsDelight
    TropicsDelight
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    notyuu wrote: »
    but that aside what your proposing isn't the most...feasible idea as it would result in a group getting together with a trial tier tank...and just...basically taking over an entire town..and before you even think of saying "that wouldn't happen" it would...people are *** like that.

    In every MMORPG I have played previously it was the things like that which players got together to do in an effort to make some brief game world change that I remember the most looking back on things.

    Those kinds of player driven events are what make a true sandbox MMORPG a sandbox. The efforts to remove any ability to do anything like this creates a dry and boring game world that plays on rails and allows the players to do nothing off the narrow path developers try to strictly enforce.

    The level with which ZOS managed to limit the ability to interact in the ESO game world outside of a very limited planned course/path is an engineering marvel, and in many ways created a far less interactive and alive game world than MMORPG's of the past that did not work as hard to restrict players doing things outside the box.
  • Sange13
    Sange13
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    notyuu wrote: »
    but that aside what your proposing isn't the most...feasible idea as it would result in a group getting together with a trial tier tank...and just...basically taking over an entire town..and before you even think of saying "that wouldn't happen" it would...people are *** like that.

    In every MMORPG I have played previously it was the things like that which players got together to do in an effort to make some brief game world change that I remember the most looking back on things.

    Those kinds of player driven events are what make a true sandbox MMORPG a sandbox. The efforts to remove any ability to do anything like this creates a dry and boring game world that plays on rails and allows the players to do nothing off the narrow path developers try to strictly enforce.

    The level with which ZOS managed to limit the ability to interact in the ESO game world outside of a very limited planned course/path is an engineering marvel, and in many ways created a far less interactive and alive game world than MMORPG's of the past that did not work as hard to restrict players doing things outside the box.

    Absolutely.
    IGN: Sange-13
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    I remember leveling on guards a few times in Everquest. Using an enchanter to have a guard fight another guard - or - killing them myself in the high elven city. (Kunark era).

    It was a sign of oh he is a bad ass as the newbies were running to guards for defense, yet I’m killing them inside the city.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
    Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'
  • OneForSorrow
    OneForSorrow
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    I am fine with unkillable guards. What there needs to be is
    • A more obvious indicator of when they can see you. Sometimes I kill an assassination target with a nearly closed eye but the eye seems to indicate that my target cannot see me...not that the guard 20 yards away can't.
    • Related to above: Sometimes they, and other NPCs, can spot you through solid objects like stacks of crates if they are approaching from certain angles. I would love a cone of vision for these guys Metal Gear style. Dark Brotherhood or Thieves Guild ability maybe?
    • More ways of getting away from them, especially indoors. Right now if you aggro one in a small building and do not have an invisibility pot all you can do is die. Let us dive out windows or give one of the skill lines a smoke bomb that temporarily lets you interact with doors.
    Edited by OneForSorrow on May 24, 2020 7:35AM
    PC NA. Various alts, trying to find a main, I have no idea what I'm doing.
  • EmEm_Oh
    EmEm_Oh
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    Put a 50.8 million hp stat on a guard. Problem solved. If people want to help...great. But this would then attract other guards to help.

    Would be kinda fun.
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Casterial wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.

    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.

    It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.

    In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.

    I don't see the point. Basically you are saying let us kill guards but make the penalty so bad nobody will kill guards.

    Yes, so instead of running or just forcing yourself to die to guards, you kill it and move on. Due to how bizarre guard behavior is with chasing / attacking, this would be fine.

    Again, what is the point? Fighting the guard would take longer than running away. If you kill the guard the penalty you receive as proposed would be huge. Who is going to want to waste time just to later either log out until the penalty wears off or pay a huge huge fine?
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • Casterial
    Casterial
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    kargen27 wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.

    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.

    It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.

    In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.

    I don't see the point. Basically you are saying let us kill guards but make the penalty so bad nobody will kill guards.

    Yes, so instead of running or just forcing yourself to die to guards, you kill it and move on. Due to how bizarre guard behavior is with chasing / attacking, this would be fine.

    Again, what is the point? Fighting the guard would take longer than running away. If you kill the guard the penalty you receive as proposed would be huge. Who is going to want to waste time just to later either log out until the penalty wears off or pay a huge huge fine?

    Accomplishments, stuck in doors, fun challenge, or just dont really feel like fleeing across the map. Immersion
    Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
    The Order of Magnus
    Filthy Faction Hoppers

    Combat Is Clunky | Cyordiil Fixes

    Member since: August 2013
    Kill Counter Developer
    For the Daggerfall Covenant
    The Last Chillrend Empress
    Animation Cancelling
  • Dusk_Coven
    Dusk_Coven
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    Dusk_Coven wrote: »
    Swap "guards" with "players" and you have the situation guards face when players are in town. Maybe now you know what it feels like when people meet "unkillable players" in PvP https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/526107/ok-enough-is-enough-unkilable-players-is-getting-worse/p1 and why that's irritating.

    If you're lousy at the justice system, you deserve even harsher penalties than having to run away from a guard.

    How about if you refuse to pay your bounty, the guard's partner does a Blade of Woe on you from behind? Keep your eyes open and don't let a guard sneak up on you!

    And the bigger your bounty, the further Guards can detect and run to accost you.

    Edited by Dusk_Coven on May 23, 2020 5:39AM
  • VoxAdActa
    VoxAdActa
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    I don't understand the immature desire to go around murderhoboing whole towns, and I've never seen a compelling argument for ZoS to make it trivially easy.

    You realize that with killable guards, high CP characters can murder, steal, and loot for basically free money in town with no risk just by getting a good group together? Talk about the meta for gold earning! Get six guys in Daggerfall to keep the guards down and everyone can just strip all the NPCs naked and all the safeboxes bare with no consequence.

    Yes, definitely allow this, because some [snip] by bragging about killing guards.

    [Edited to remove Baiting/Inappropriate Language]
    Edited by ZOS_ConnorG on May 23, 2020 11:58AM
  • kargen27
    kargen27
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    Casterial wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    Casterial wrote: »
    kargen27 wrote: »
    I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.

    You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.

    It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.

    In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.

    I don't see the point. Basically you are saying let us kill guards but make the penalty so bad nobody will kill guards.

    Yes, so instead of running or just forcing yourself to die to guards, you kill it and move on. Due to how bizarre guard behavior is with chasing / attacking, this would be fine.

    Again, what is the point? Fighting the guard would take longer than running away. If you kill the guard the penalty you receive as proposed would be huge. Who is going to want to waste time just to later either log out until the penalty wears off or pay a huge huge fine?

    Accomplishments, stuck in doors, fun challenge, or just dont really feel like fleeing across the map. Immersion

    I can see the fun maybe once just to see if you can. But if we go with what was suggested the bounty would be so high you wouldn't want to do it more than a couple of times and to that end you might as well just go fight a world boss. If they added an accomplishment for killing a guard sure, why not. But once ya got the accomplishment why bother so back to what is the point. I don't buy the immersion thing. If we went that route the first time you got caught killing an NPC you would be hunted down forever until dead even if you did manage to get away the first time. They wouldn't just forgive a crime because you killed a guard and/or crossed a river.
    and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."
  • willjones1122
    willjones1122
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    I am all for immersion, but unkillable guards is one the least of immersion breaking things in this game. For example you save numerous kings/queens/dukes/peasants etc. And you get a reward of 175 to 300 gold (and maybe a junk item you'll never use) for the quest. Go grocery shopping in daggerfall sometime. 150 gold for a tomato. Yup, a kings life is worth as much as a tomato or two. Save an entire village or 3 and maybe you can make a decent soup.
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