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Unpopular Opinion: Killable Guards
Casterial
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Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.
This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.
Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.
One problem:
Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
Great Examples of Guards:
Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
In Comparison:
In Summary:
Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.
Edited by Casterial on May 22, 2020 7:12PM This would be fine if you couldn't accidentally steal items, or be a Necromancer and use abilities.
Guards should be killable. Sure, they don't need to be an easy encounter, but sure enough you should be able to put up a fight and fight them.
One problem:
Adding Necromancer for example and forcing them to get a bounty for using skills is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
Great Examples of Guards:
Look at games like World of Warcraft. Guards dismount, root, slow, and stun you. You can kill them, but if you fight 10+ you usually start to go down.
In Comparison:
We don't need to make it so 10+ to kill you, but we can at least make Guards have more utility and fit into the city? For example, why don't guards give you directions to things, why don't guards answer questions, why aren't the intractable unless they want to kill you?
In Summary:
Make guards killable, tune them to be like a mini boss fight, something you really should run away from, but can fight if you really want to.
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Our thieving system would be cool, but it feels more punishing than anything else with unkillable god-mode guards.
Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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27
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.
The fact is, you can steal when trying to interact with crafting writs, guild stores, or just exploring. Its pretty bad that you'll randomly steal and usually results in a guard beating you to death. Also, a class shouldn't be punished, especially for people who paid $40 for it.
Why are you opposed to guards being killable? Does it ruin your immersion? Because for me, a person not being killable means they're a Daedric Prince, and clearly.... They are not.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
Beta tester November 201327 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why are you using necro skills in towns, near guards? I have more than one necromancer. None of them have even gotten a warning from the guards, let alone insta-killed because of illegal transformations.
If you're dueling, there just might possibly be open space free of guards and problems OUTSIDE of town. Just a few miles with no restrictions or guards.....
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.Beta tester November 20137 -
MagicalLija✭✭✭✭✭
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.4 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why are you using necro skills in towns, near guards? I have more than one necromancer. None of them have even gotten a warning from the guards, let alone insta-killed because of illegal transformations.
If you're dueling, there just might possibly be open space free of guards and problems OUTSIDE of town. Just a few miles with no restrictions or guards.....
One issue is, guards will actually run from across the map to wack you sometimes randomly like its a glitch.
In Riften for example, people will duel where no guard is in sight, then a guard sprints from a bridge, across the bridge, to the tavern, wacks you, then god mods himself to speed 300% and sprints back.
I still haven't seen a clear argument as to why guards shouldn't be killable, just people going "Leave it as is"Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.Beta tester November 20133 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.
No interest, just consequence. My first thing I tell any new player "Turn off kill innocents and thieving, or else guards will roflstomp you." Which, by the way I see MULTIPLE new players suffer at the starting spot.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
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Kalik_Gold✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agreed.... these dudes should be sent on missions. BUT, no they are guarding flour sacks.Main: (PvP & PvE)PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige
PvP:
Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer
PvP: (Specialty)
Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer
PvE:
Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)
Leveling...
Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
======
Passives of another race used. (RP)
*Breton
**Imperial
__________________________Backstories:_________________________
Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.
Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.
Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...
Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.
Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.
The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.
The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.
Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.
Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)
And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.
After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.
After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...
Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.
Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.
{time moves forward through the hour-glass}
Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'5 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kalik_Gold wrote: »Agreed.... these dudes should be sent on missions. BUT, no they are guarding flour sacks.
They're like "YOU TOUCHIN MY FLOUR?!?!?!?!?!?!?!" Become 9000 Weapon damage and backhand you into Oblivion.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
Member since: August 2013
Kill Counter Developer
For the Daggerfall Covenant
The Last Chillrend Empress
Animation Cancelling7 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.
The fact is, you can steal when trying to interact with crafting writs, guild stores, or just exploring. Its pretty bad that you'll randomly steal and usually results in a guard beating you to death. Also, a class shouldn't be punished, especially for people who paid $40 for it.
Why are you opposed to guards being killable? Does it ruin your immersion? Because for me, a person not being killable means they're a Daedric Prince, and clearly.... They are not.
I don't see whether you're on PC or not, but Dolgubbins Lazy Writ Crafter has an option that keeps you from accidentally stealing while crafting and turning in writs.
It turns on when you take a writ from the board and turns back off after you've cleared your outstanding writs.
It wont solve your immersion with the rest of your points, but it WILL keep you from committing theft while just trying to do your writs.
Edited by twev on May 22, 2020 7:31PMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.1 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.
No interest, just consequence. My first thing I tell any new player "Turn off kill innocents and thieving, or else guards will roflstomp you." Which, by the way I see MULTIPLE new players suffer at the starting spot.
Thats your opinion.. I would be rather boring if I could steal whatever I wanted where ever I wanted and kill NPCs everywhere without getting a bounty or someone taking notice.
As for new players. I see new players get roflstomped by world bosses, dungeon bosses, regular mobs all the time.
Should we make the game even more easier so people dont have to be bothered to learn how to play it?
Its called a learning curve that you need to go through to learn how to play this game.
Now I would definitely agree that objects at merchants, banks, writ turn areas should not be steal able in the first place to avoid accidental bounties. Ive accidentally stolen things at writ turn ins and at merchants many times. Ive even hit my skills when rushing to pick up writs that resulted in hitting a guard and getting chased out of town. I learned to be more careful and not rush when interacting with them.Beta tester November 20135 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.
No interest, just consequence. My first thing I tell any new player "Turn off kill innocents and thieving, or else guards will roflstomp you." Which, by the way I see MULTIPLE new players suffer at the starting spot.
Thats your opinion.. I would be rather boring if I could steal whatever I wanted where ever I wanted and kill NPCs everywhere without getting a bounty or someone taking notice.
As for new players. I see new players get roflstomped by world bosses, dungeon bosses, regular mobs all the time.
Should we make the game even more easier so people dont have to be bothered to learn how to play it?
Its called a learning curve that you need to go through to learn how to play this game.
Now I would definitely agree that objects at merchants, banks, writ turn areas should not be steal able in the first place to avoid accidental bounties. Ive accidentally stolen things at writ turn ins and at merchants many times. Ive even hit my skills when rushing to pick up writs that resulted in hitting a guard and getting chased out of town. I learned to be more careful and not rush when interacting with them.
I'm not saying guards shouldn't kill you. I'm saying you should be able to kill them, you should be able to defend, put up a fight, and if skilled enough kill them.
You steal, a guard comes to you "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" and they give you the option to pay, or fight. If you fight as said above, its like fighting a mini boss / world boss. I didn't say remove, or make guards so dang easy.
Games already easy (bolded part) So, yes, it was already toned down for them.
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. Just don't steal and don't use illegal abilities in town.
I say that as someone who often steals coins from the banker without meaning to.
The fact is, you can steal when trying to interact with crafting writs, guild stores, or just exploring. Its pretty bad that you'll randomly steal and usually results in a guard beating you to death. Also, a class shouldn't be punished, especially for people who paid $40 for it.
Why are you opposed to guards being killable? Does it ruin your immersion? Because for me, a person not being killable means they're a Daedric Prince, and clearly.... They are not.
I don't see whether you're on PC or not, but Dolgubbins Lazy Writ Crafter has an option that keeps you from accidentally stealing while crafting and turning in writs.
It turns on when you take a writ from the board and turns back off after you've cleared your outstanding writs.
It wont solve your immersion with the rest of your points, but it WILL keep you from committing theft while just trying to do your writs.
Aye, I use this. But in general its just a weird thing for a game thats selling point is immersion and story telling....And then we have guards that just shatter that immersion
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Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.
No interest, just consequence. My first thing I tell any new player "Turn off kill innocents and thieving, or else guards will roflstomp you." Which, by the way I see MULTIPLE new players suffer at the starting spot.
Thats your opinion.. I would be rather boring if I could steal whatever I wanted where ever I wanted and kill NPCs everywhere without getting a bounty or someone taking notice.
As for new players. I see new players get roflstomped by world bosses, dungeon bosses, regular mobs all the time.
Should we make the game even more easier so people dont have to be bothered to learn how to play it?
Its called a learning curve that you need to go through to learn how to play this game.
Now I would definitely agree that objects at merchants, banks, writ turn areas should not be steal able in the first place to avoid accidental bounties. Ive accidentally stolen things at writ turn ins and at merchants many times. Ive even hit my skills when rushing to pick up writs that resulted in hitting a guard and getting chased out of town. I learned to be more careful and not rush when interacting with them.
I'm not saying guards shouldn't kill you. I'm saying you should be able to kill them, you should be able to defend, put up a fight, and if skilled enough kill them.
You steal, a guard comes to you "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" and they give you the option to pay, or fight. If you fight as said above, its like fighting a mini boss / world boss. I didn't say remove, or make guards so dang easy.
Games already easy (bolded part) So, yes, it was already toned down for them.
Well we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I see no reason they should be killable and I do see potential problems with them being killable which is probably the reasons they are the way they are. In case you didnt know, this has been brought up many many times since the guards were made the way they are. They have not been changed so whatever the reasons are, its intentional and most likely not changing.
Respectfully, Have a nice weekend!Edited by Katahdin on May 22, 2020 7:48PMBeta tester November 20133 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭MagicAndrej wrote: »
I've seen a guard get zerged down by 15 players, get to 0% hp, do a mass AOE hit them all for 90k and instantly kill all 15 players... Why is this a thing?
Lag/Latency in major city holds is horrible enough. Extra effects, damages, AOEs, deaths, are just going to add to it. So best off to just leave them be unkillable.
As for the interactions and stuff, I would like to see more "tutorial" dialogue with the Guards, might help out a few players.
Two good suggestions, tutorilization of guards and lag being reason enough.NO, you just need to be more careful.
I havent died to a guard in literally years because Im careful and even when I do accidentally steal something, they are easy to avoid and run away from. Always have a path out in mind in case you get caught.
Watching a group try to kill a guard only to get blown up at the end is hilarious, so no lets not remove that!
I mean, I don't die to guards. But I find it stupid as hell that this game implemented guards this way. There is no Open World PVP, Guards should be gods if there is open world pvp. So, thus, lets add Open World PVP since they're already a god
I fail to see how Open world PVP and the lack there of has any relevance at all.
They are fine as they are, just avoid them and dont use illlegal skills in town EZPZ.
Original intent was bounty hunting which is why guards were god mode.
The original intent was to provide interest and consequences to the stealing and murder.
Guards were made as they are before they were going to implement a bounty system which as we all know was scrapped.
If the intent was only for bounty hunting, they would have changed the guards.
No interest, just consequence. My first thing I tell any new player "Turn off kill innocents and thieving, or else guards will roflstomp you." Which, by the way I see MULTIPLE new players suffer at the starting spot.
Thats your opinion.. I would be rather boring if I could steal whatever I wanted where ever I wanted and kill NPCs everywhere without getting a bounty or someone taking notice.
As for new players. I see new players get roflstomped by world bosses, dungeon bosses, regular mobs all the time.
Should we make the game even more easier so people dont have to be bothered to learn how to play it?
Its called a learning curve that you need to go through to learn how to play this game.
Now I would definitely agree that objects at merchants, banks, writ turn areas should not be steal able in the first place to avoid accidental bounties. Ive accidentally stolen things at writ turn ins and at merchants many times. Ive even hit my skills when rushing to pick up writs that resulted in hitting a guard and getting chased out of town. I learned to be more careful and not rush when interacting with them.
I'm not saying guards shouldn't kill you. I'm saying you should be able to kill them, you should be able to defend, put up a fight, and if skilled enough kill them.
You steal, a guard comes to you "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM" and they give you the option to pay, or fight. If you fight as said above, its like fighting a mini boss / world boss. I didn't say remove, or make guards so dang easy.
Games already easy (bolded part) So, yes, it was already toned down for them.
Well we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I see no reason they should be killable and I do see potential problems with them being killable which is probably the reasons they are the way they are. In case you didnt know, this has been brought up many many times since the guards were made the way they are. They have not been changed so whatever the reasons are, its intentional and most likely not changing.
Respectfully, Have a nice weekend!
Have a good weekend, and truthfully, ZOS wont change anything in any old content or vanilla zones...Part of the reason everything in older zones feels so dated and bad at times :PDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo11 -
TropicsDelight✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.
You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.
It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.
In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.8 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭TropicsDelight wrote: »AcadianPaladin wrote: »I fear that killable guards would become 'training dummies who hit back'. That is, killing guards would become a 'fun challenge' for some. I find duels in crowded areas rude/disruptive and, since that is where guards hang out, there would be plenty of rude/disruptive guard fights, adding to the problem.
You would still take a huge bounty for attacking and killing a guard. The actual bounty you get tacked on should be far higher once the guard actually dies. It is one thing to attack a guard, it would be another thing to actually kill one.
It is hugely unimmersive to have unkillable guards and TBH there is no point to actually doing it. You can make them fairly fast respawns, you can make them drop no loot, you can make the bounty excessive, you can create a faction system that makes doing it extremely detrimental far beyond the temporary bounty.
In most MMORPG's where the guards are killable the actual killing of the guards is not an issue and you are not seeing players running around killing guards at all hours of the day, in most games they knew enough to make it reward very little and cost quite a lot. In those MMORPG's where it is possible though, it feels more immersive, the world feels more real and you do not have that artificial wall of reality smacking you in the face in the game world like that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS!Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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TropicsDelight✭✭✭Have a good weekend, and truthfully, ZOS wont change anything in any old content or vanilla zones...Part of the reason everything in older zones feels so dated and bad at times :P
This would be a very easy fix and patch. It is a very minor change to the coding that is an effective cut and paste across each NPC that is coded as a guard. It would take a minimal amount of time to change every guard in the world and would be a minor change that would simply be a footnote in a patch.0 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭TropicsDelight wrote: »Have a good weekend, and truthfully, ZOS wont change anything in any old content or vanilla zones...Part of the reason everything in older zones feels so dated and bad at times :P
This would be a very easy fix and patch. It is a very minor change to the coding that is an effective cut and paste across each NPC that is coded as a guard. It would take a minimal amount of time to change every guard in the world and would be a minor change that would simply be a footnote in a patch.
My worry is they hard coded each type of guard in each area differently....Much like Wrecking Blow / Dizzy Swing on NPC...custom hard coded different than each one which is why they wont change it... Instead of ZOS having NPC pick from a skill table, they hard coded skills into themDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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Sephyr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I vote yes. And before the descending naysayers get their sweetrolls in a twist, it's not because it's 'not being careful'. It's about how BORING it is to engage with the Justice System. Seriously, it's one of the most easiest systems to exploit, there's no challenge with it even if you steal one single damn tomato. It's literally so boring that I literally have to work my arse off just to get a bounty over 100k.
Give us a big bounty for killing a guard. Give us some really strong and tanky guards. None of this boring arse oneshot mechanics and then stealing your gold. Make it more engaging. Allow a sneak thief crime syndicate to pass special items, let us have a damn skooma den. Have guards hire these new 'vampire hunters' to stake the crap out of us.
What do we have?
Boring, unkillable guards without any modicum of flavor, taste, and drama. It's as boring as the content they're passing off as 'vet endgame content' now.3 -
wild_kmacdb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Players should be able to defeat guards but it should be risky - as in a couple missed blocks or dodges = death
At the very least, they should make it so you can interact with doors while being chased by guards. If you are in most buildings and pursued, you have no chance of escape.5 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nopes....guards should get buffed instead with increased damage. They should also be able to summon other guards to destroy the bad puppy offenders!!
-> Syvarra's Scales
(4 Items) Reduces your damage taken from guards by 20%.
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Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »Nopes....guards should get buffed instead with increased damage. They should also be able to summon other guards to destroy the bad puppy offenders!!
-> Syvarra's Scales
(4 Items) Reduces your damage taken from guards by 20%.
What a useless set lolDaggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.
is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
Guards do not instantly kill you initally
the damage the guards do starts at about a 5K wack...and goes up based on how much you hit them back EVEUTALLY reaching 1-shot levels.
Source: I've literally ran around towns killing npcs [for bounty achievements] whit a conga line of guards hitting and chasing over the course of almost half an hour and they only did more than 5-5.7K per hit when i stopped and hit them back
but that aside what your proposing isn't the most...feasible idea as it would result in a group getting together with a trial tier tank...and just...basically taking over an entire town..and before you even think of saying "that wouldn't happen" it would...people are *** like that.
meaning there would be two options
1: the guards get stronger in every area based on time AND how many guards you've killed....but that would chug the server out the ass
2: unkillable guards
and the second option has a much reduced impact on the server...so yes, it sucks, but it's that or nothing.Edited by notyuu on May 22, 2020 8:37PM10 -
Casterial✭✭✭✭✭
✭Elder Scrolls Online is one of the few mmos out there where guards are not killable.
is not that great since Guards just walk up and wack you and usually instantly kill you
Guards do not instantly kill you initally
the damage the guards do starts at about a 5K wack...and goes up based on how much you hit them back EVEUTALLY reaching 1-shot levels.
Source: I've literally ran around towns killing npcs [for bounty achievements] whit a conga line of guards hitting and chasing over the course of almost half an hour and they only did more than 5-5.7K per hit when i stopped and hit them back
Their damage increases the longer they're in combat for, running from them sometimes makes them reset.Daggerfall Covenant:Casterial Stamplar || Casterial DK || Availed NB || Castyrial Sorc || Spooky Casterial Necro
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