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Racial passives, yay or nay?

Avrael
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Racial passives got already changed a few times since release of the game, each time with positive but also negative feedback. I personally always thought theyre pretty irrelevant and you better play with wichever race you want, but... in endgame content, it matters a whole lot which race you are. Youre a tank as a high elf? A dd as Argonian? Youre very likely to not get chosen for high level activities, just because the race you like/choose isnt meta for your role. And i find that pretty sad.

If we wanted to be political correct, all races should be treated the same, cause theyre all worth the same and should have equal rights. But theres a lot of racism and even slavery in TES Lore and ESO, so i guess a few diffrences per race are acceptable for this game. Also the point that this is only a game. For instance it makes total sense for Argonians to swim faster then others, or Khajiits to sneak better (others on the other hand make no sense at all, Orcs have more sprint speed then others? They should be pretty much the slowest race imo, just because of their bodies, no matter how strong they are. Just tell a weightlifter to sprint a 100m, see how that goes).

So ill just throw an idea out here, i just thought a bit about it, its not perfect, its not yet meant as a suggestion, its just an idea up for discussion, right here.

How about keeping the special passives that all races already have, also change some a little bit, but no stat-passives? So for instance, Argonians keep their swimspeed, but dont get more magicka and health by default, and same for all others. As for changes you could make, probably something like giving sprint speed to Woodelves or something, and Orcs... something that makes more sense, idk.

Id just think making all races equaly good in any role would be fairer to people who just choose their race after what they liked the most, as it should be imo. Ill never make an Argonian stamina Nightblade, even tho it would fit with the Shadowscales and all, but their passives just dont fit, so i could play solo with it, low level content, but thats it. Noone would take me into a raid. In PvP i would be at a noticable disadvantage. Also i would never play an Orc, because i dont like them (not racist lol), even if it is the best race for some builds.

So, but what about the stat-passives then, i hear you say? Just removing them would take quite a bit of rebalancing other things, and youre right. Heres the second part:

Put all those passives into the World-Skilltree (or a new one, idk), so we can freely choose any we need for our role, at that moment. BUT, let us only be able to pick 3 passives at a time. So ofc you couldnt just take everything and be a god [even tho you pretty much are already, but nvm that), no you still would have to choose whats most important for you atm. For a magicka dd, maybe max magicka and magicka regen, for a tank max health and stamina regen etc. So just what you do atm already, but not bound to specific classes.

And last but not least, we already are heavily restricted by our classes for which roles we can play effective, ofc you can play anything as any class and race, but you cant argue everything is just as effective as anything else. And we cant change classes, probably never will be. Also, now with the vampire changes, we have some more freedoms in some places, but were also even more restricted in others. So at least some more freedom in as what we WANT to play would be appreciated, by me at least. It just doesnt scream variety when almost every tank is a Redguard, and most healers are Argonians or Bretons etc...
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  • orion_1981usub17_ESO
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    No, thank you. I want my races to be identifiably different and to be uniquely good at various roles should you choose to utilize them in such a manner.
  • JayKwellen
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    Uhh, in PvP some of the most savage nightblades I've seen, both mag and stam, have been argonians.

    6% increased healing done? 1k more health and mag? Immune to poisoned effect? All useful for PvP already, but the resourceful passive is seriously awesome. 4K health/mag/stam with every potion? On a class that already has a very high need for their off-stat and weak healing? It's ridiculously useful.

    Sorry, kinda missed the overall topic there but I couldn't just stand by and let the lizards get defamed like that.

    Just so this isn't entirely a tangent, I'll say that I also personally disagree with taking away the rest of the passives and moving them to a collective skill line too. This game is already homogenized enough, and as it is all the classes are slowly morphing into each other as every unique ability gets nerfed, taken away and given to other classes, or just taken away completely. If anything this game needs more uniqueness, not less.
  • Nord_Raseri
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    Races aren't all the same. In any tes games or in reallity. That's the beauty of nature. Equality has nothing to do with it, as in equality is about rights, not racial/genetic/regional evolution and the differences between all living creatures.
    Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.
  • Taloros
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    Remove them. It's the easiest way to remove all the balancing issues.

    Instead, give new characters a bonus to skills according to race, e. g. level 10 in bows for Bosmer, pickpocket for Khajit, staffs for Altmer and so on. That transforms the dubious racial differences to of cultural differences: A Bosmer learns to use a bow as a child, but an Altmer can become just as good in it if he/she puts the effort in.
  • Chilly-McFreeze
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    Taloros wrote: »
    Remove them. It's the easiest way to remove all the balancing issues.

    Remove every layer of building that doesn't fit my fantasy. It's easier for balancing isses as well if everything is one and the same. /s
    Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on May 18, 2020 6:40AM
  • Aelorin
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    If you think Argonians have it bad now, then you are lucky to not have played Morrowind: They could not wear armor at hands and feet, which was a major drawback. Ofcourse that was a single player game, and you could cheat your way out of it.

    I currently like the fact that there are racial differences. If you take them away, then race has no more meaning anymore. Also The Elder Scrolls have allways had racial differences.

    Some races are subpar. Maybe they could buff them a bit to make them better and compete with other races. I think Imperials are worst off, they do not seem to excell at anything.
    And so the Elder Scrolls foretold.You will be shy, and I will be bold.
  • Stx
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    No thank you. TES races have always had unique passives and different stats to show each races strengths and weaknesses.

    Plus, racial stats adds another layer of choice to the game, which is nice when making a build. If you make every race the same, that's removing options and choices from making a character build.

    If you are into min-maxing then roll the race with the best stats, but if you are into RP, then roll whatever race you want and realise you can still complete all the content in the game just fine.

    Personally, I play Imperials for all my main characters, including magicka. I dont care of it's not meta.

    I also have an argonian solo character that has a 75% uptime on major vitality and his resourceful passive is amazing even on a stamina build.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Seriously, Argonian are OK... that was a battle won.

    Comparing what it is now to it was used to be... now it's a race that can be played.
    Edited by Xvorg on May 18, 2020 3:45PM
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  • zvavi
    zvavi
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    If racial passives become cosmetics only imo it will harm the lore. Then again some of them are bullcrap.
    Edited by zvavi on May 18, 2020 8:35PM
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    No, thank you. I want my races to be identifiably different and to be uniquely good at various roles should you choose to utilize them in such a manner.

    Their identity is completely and fundamentally changed every 2 years.

    For example, Bosmer were initially the "stealth" race. That was taken away in the latest racial rebalancing patch.
  • MLGProPlayer
    MLGProPlayer
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    zvavi wrote: »
    If racial passives become cosmetics only imo it will harm the lore. Then again some of them are bullcrap.

    The racial passives in the single player games are almost completely irrelevant. If we're talking about lore, that's what ZOS should be emulating.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on May 19, 2020 2:48AM
  • Deathlord92
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    I love this idea I would love the wood elf racial passives for my Breton stamblade but then again my Breton racial passives are useful especially in outnumbered situations I literally have 100% uptime on cloak and shade 🙂
  • Ajaks
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    To your point about "equal rights". Equality of opportunity does not necessarily mean equality of outcome. The first notion is something that you already have - you can pick any race you want and play in any style that you desire. And if you are a good player you will actually turn those disadvantages in your favor - no matter of the meta. [snip] As for the game - it would just make the game more boring as one aspect of unique versatility in the player-base builds will be destroyed.

    [edited for discussing inappropriate topic]
    Edited by ZOS_FalcoYamaoka on May 21, 2020 4:38PM
  • luen79rwb17_ESO
    luen79rwb17_ESO
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    IMO they should stay but with minimal, marginal, TINY impact on stats. Last racial rework as a step on the right direction for almost all races but definately some races are still a walking meme where others are universally accepted as lead race for X role, which is not nice.
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  • BlueRaven
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    Since the combat team seems unable to balance them correctly, nor follow the lore associated with the races, diminish the passives.
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Avrael wrote: »
    in endgame content, it matters a whole lot which race you are. Youre a tank as a high elf? A dd as Argonian? Youre very likely to not get chosen for high level activities, just because the race you like/choose isnt meta for your role. And i find that pretty sad.
    Uh no it does not and literally no one is holding you back from finishing any veteran trials unless you're pushing for score. No one asks for meta unless you're wanting to play with elitists and even then you yourself would chose the most optimized race over fun because nothing is fun when taking the game (especially ESO) that serious.

    I honestly never look at the leaderboards.. like ever.
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