MagSorc PVE need some love!!

jecks33 · May 2020

Magsorc is the last of mag classes in terms of dps, 8/10k far from magden, magdk and magblade, 12k from stamcro. Forced to use 2 pets (a nightmare in trials), without pets is even worse. The only class aoe (lightning flood) is useless, the class spammable is.... oh, sorcs don't have one.
I hope Zos give us a class spammable, a magicka version of bound armaments or some buff to put magsorcs (no-pet too) in line with other mag classes

John_Falstaff · May 2020

@jecks33 , care to give parses to compare? I see magsorcs parsing quite on par with other classes. Stamcro is an outlier, can't ask ZOS to tone down their P2W baby darling. MagDK is carried by asylum destro, which is going to be trashed next patch. Magblade isn't really ahead of magsorcs, and has a steep learning curve unlike them. Magden is bad on single target, and bear is a nuisance. So... give some ground for discussion?

jecks33 · May 2020

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@jecks33 , care to give parses to compare? I see magsorcs parsing quite on par with other classes.

Looking at liko's video, the only competitive magsorc build is with 2 pets but it's not viable in trial. 1 pet is meh and no-pet is too far from other classes.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Stamcro is an outlier, can't ask ZOS to tone down their P2W baby darling.

I'm not asking for stamcro (or other classes) nerf, i'm asking for some sorc buff

zvavi · May 2020

I don't feel weak on my sorc tyvm and I run 1 pet. I parsed 80k (when it was possible, lagless) with no siroria nor bash weave nor spell symmetry (I [snip] wear grandwulf), I ain't the best player, but if manage to hit those numbers it means something.
I am willing to agree with you that our class aoe is *** though. They should buff lightning flood, while nerfing pets, then buffing daedric prey to buff pets back to where they are now.

[Minor edit for censor bypass]

John_Falstaff · May 2020

jecks33 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@jecks33 , care to give parses to compare? I see magsorcs parsing quite on par with other classes.

Looking at liko's video, the only competitive magsorc build is with 2 pets but it's not viable in trial. 1 pet is meh and no-pet is too far from other classes.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Stamcro is an outlier, can't ask ZOS to tone down their P2W baby darling.

I'm not asking for stamcro (or other classes) nerf, i'm asking for some sorc buff

Why 2-pet is not viable, I wonder, any particular reason? I see two-pet sorcs being quite successful. As for stamcro, if you want buffs, then -all- classes have to be buffed to stamcro level, not just sorc.

Stamcro is an outlier, it's not that magsorc is below stamcro, all classes are below stamcro now.

WrathOfInnos · May 2020

Sorc does not combine well with Greymoor vampirism. Most classes are getting a nice boost by using Blood for Blood as a spammable, but since it does not cost Magicka it will not proc Crystal Frags on Sorc. It’s not far behind other classes if building for range, but you won’t see crazy melee parses on Sorc as long as it synergizes so poorly with Vamp.

Agree on their class AoE being the worst of any. And in addition to its low damage, Liquid and Flood are both still missing their final tick.

John_Falstaff · May 2020

@WrathOfInnos , I'm still trying to guess whether vampire and Blood for Blood will be meta in the next patch. If it'll be outperforming usual rotations in actual content without significant drawbacks... I'd say it's not healthy for the game, since we're jumping into mild vampire meta (only because of regen passive, and somewhat mitigation) to a much stronger meta where endgame PvE will be forced into vampirism. I'd rather ZOS not do such a move in first place, and that'll leave magsorcs unaffected.

NyassaV · May 2020

Force Pulse is a very very powerful spammable especially in PvP. It allows you use use Scathing mage effectively.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2020

Someone should probably point out that Liko (seems to be his only source, not that its a bad one) has NOT released his sorc build for Greymoor yet. Magden is definitley strong next patch, but comparing to mag sorc from last patch is not apples to apples. Damage is way up next patch.

Also, its worth noting that liko parses are specifically ignoring the vampire toggle. Good mageblades are gonna turn this on and never turn it off except when they need to follow mechanics.

Meta raids are probably going to be 1DK, 1Sorc, (first two are for group buffs), 3 Necros (for the ulti rotation) and 3 vampblades for for pure damage).

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2020

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Sorc does not combine well with Greymoor vampirism. Most classes are getting a nice boost by using Blood for Blood as a spammable, but since it does not cost Magicka it will not proc Crystal Frags on Sorc. It’s not far behind other classes if building for range, but you won’t see crazy melee parses on Sorc as long as it synergizes so poorly with Vamp.

Agree on their class AoE being the worst of any. And in addition to its low damage, Liquid and Flood are both still missing their final tick.

@WrathOfInnos
They really need to rework Frags so that the vamp spammable can proc it. It feels like an oversight.

But again, I think the really good players arent going to use the vamp spammable. I think they are going to use the vamp toggle, which means they need spam with self heals (Magplars and NBs for the most part).

Kind of funny. Mid tier raids will probably run the spammable and give their healers PTSD, and top year raids will run the toggle and tell their healers to take a vacation. Haha

Danksta · May 2020

It's an odd choice to compare sorc to warden then complain about the need to run pets to be effective. The bear is doing about 12k DPS in those parses.

SidraWillowsky · May 2020

jecks33 wrote: »

Magsorc is the last of mag classes in terms of dps, 8/10k far from magden, magdk and magblade, 12k from stamcro. Forced to use 2 pets (a nightmare in trials), without pets is even worse. The only class aoe (lightning flood) is useless, the class spammable is.... oh, sorcs don't have one.
I hope Zos give us a class spammable, a magicka version of bound armaments or some buff to put magsorcs (no-pet too) in line with other mag classes

I have nothing worthwhile to contribute but I love that magden is finally getting listed among classes that can pull solid DPS. People are starting to see the light!

jecks33 · May 2020

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Someone should probably point out that Liko (seems to be his only source, not that its a bad one) has NOT released his sorc build for Greymoor yet.

relased today, 84k, the worst class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCkrpoleBU

zvavi · May 2020

jecks33 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Someone should probably point out that Liko (seems to be his only source, not that its a bad one) has NOT released his sorc build for Greymoor yet.

relased today, 84k, the worst class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCkrpoleBU

It says 87.5k...for no pets.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · May 2020

jecks33 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Someone should probably point out that Liko (seems to be his only source, not that its a bad one) has NOT released his sorc build for Greymoor yet.

relased today, 84k, the worst class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FCkrpoleBU

You dont get to intentionally gimp your build (no pet) then complain it doesnt stack up. Mag Sorcs need pets to be competitive. 1/3 of their skill lines revolve around them. You may not like or agree with that, but that doesnt change it. It has been the case for years now. If you dont want to play with a pet, play another class. If you want a ranged DPS and you are very skilled, play NB. If you arent, play templar.

Don't get me wrong, sorc needs some love. It's a major issue that frags cant be proc'ed by the vamp spammable, and liquid lighting is the worst of its kind. All classes have a similar ground DOT, and this is certainly the worst one from a straight DPS perspective. But they are out of line by a few K DPS at absolute most.

My issue is that you are representing that they are much further behind than they actually are. They are also the second easiest rotation behind mag templar in my opinion. They are also generally one of the more survivable classes. I am someone that thinks that difficulty should be rewarded.