ZOS: Stamcros and Magblades shouldn't even exist within the same game in their current states.

Anyron · May 2020

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

That's what happens when you delete Reflective Plate. Back then the majority was laughing. Did not gave a chance for magDKs to incure added fatique cost per cast to combat the so called "ranged shut down".

StamDKs were only viable with SnB/2h BS 7th Fury, never slotting Reflective Plate.

That's what happens when you are not promoting healthy dialogue.
Enjoy the state of a washed up class now.

As for stamCro... it is the new stamDen. Nothing new.

I dont understand. What has reflective plate removal common with stamden and stamCro meta?
None of them is using reflectable skills.

[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

precambria · May 2020

Nightblade needs buff especially mag lets be clear there, Ok a big part of the problem in BG is playstyle BG is not for gank you should not be doing things alone unless forced into it which as an invisiboi should not happen, also if you are a mag toon who does not heal your team you are worthless I am sorry to be the bringer of this news flash but it's true there is literally no 0 healing builds that do better than their counterparts of equal skill.

Even if they buff them there is no way that a gank oriented class should be able to appear and reliably 1v1 a good player in a balanced game that playstyle is meant to exploit weakness like AFK people, low resource people or bad people it's not meant to take strength on head to head. As long as the expectation is that it should you will never be satisfied, the amount of times I see a nightblade on my team behind enemy line trying to engage 1v4 is basically more often that not, that's not a class needing buff issue that is a bad player sorry. When I see a good player staying with team and healing or putting their dps on the correct target rather than just choosing one randomly and they are still underperforming that is very much a class needs buff issue but that is also pretty much as rare as a unicorn for nightblade, theres less than 5 I can name who even play like that and 3 of them are supports lawl

Deathlord92 · May 2020

Draevik wrote: »

So all of you who play Nightblades die constantly to good players??? Did all of you NB mains quit your NB, what are you playing now?

I would love to see all of you NB hunters post videos of you against good NBs in BGs demonstrating how to beat them. And no I don't want to see videos from other players. I want to see them from all of you awesome NB hunters.

I do well on my stamblade and magblade both are lethal if built right and played right magblade actually very tanky with good damage when built a certain way I know the classes very well 5 years playing them 🙂 but a lot of stuff here said is right any time I fight a good player on another class I do feel my nerfs and I’m not ashamed to admit fighting a good stamcro is a horrible experience but if you want to see what I can do check my yt name Deathlord 92 🙂

Tapio75 · May 2020

Go play the game and have fun. Everything is fun to play. PVP is only thing that makes this game bad. Not because PVP is not fun, i do love playing EvE online for that, but because here PVP makes PVE players suffer from every complain they have and after that, its the meta folks who make rest to suffer because they seek something that cant really exist without making the game as bland is World of Warcraft is now.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · May 2020

fred4 wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Maybe the problem is people play the wrong play-style, I assume most Mageblades you fight are Light Armor wearers? ever fought an Immovable using Heavy Armor wearing Mageblade? that is a different ballgame when the Nightblades defenses are actually high enough that they can out-heal your damage with Swallow Soul which at the same time will deal damage to you.

This is the setup that I use and I encountered a Sorcerer in Cyrodiil who panicked and retreated when they realized their "Streak + Haunting Curse + Mage's Wrath Combo" did nothing against me because I was unable to be stunned which means they could not knock me down and thus I was able to keep up my Health Siphoning with they could not withstand.

They didn't panic. They copped on that you were a tank and left in disgust.

No they ran because I was about to kill them, it also does not change the fact a sorceor was unable to kill a nightblade who was not stealthing.

JayKwellen · May 2020

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I do well on my stamblade and magblade both are lethal if built right and played right magblade actually very tanky with good damage when built a certain way I know the classes very well 5 years playing them 🙂 but a lot of stuff here said is right any time I fight a good player on another class I do feel my nerfs and I’m not ashamed to admit fighting a good stamcro is a horrible experience but if you want to see what I can do check my yt name Deathlord 92 🙂

I finally got so tired of stealth not working properly, or working but being impossible to use due to the proliferation of AoE's and detection methods that I changed to dark cloak a bit back to see what it's like.

Yes, after changing to dark cloak and modifying my build a bit I'm definitely way more tanky. It's not even close actually. However I can still feel the huge difference and weaknesses of my magblade against many other classes that are simply balanced/made better.

Fighting against good players is still far more difficult than it was on my other characters. You can only see someone break free from fear and dodge your incap or bow so many times before you just start to feel sad. Or try to wear them down to execute range with light attacks and swallow souls, only to see their health bar not move (or simply fill back up despite your attacks) before you feel discouraged. Seeing a 21k tool tip bow and a 18k tool tip soul harvest only take maybe 1/4 of a stamcros health before you get hit by a blast ones and dizzy combo which takes half your life in an instant is just disheartening.

With dark cloak I can survive against good players at least, but the difference is instead of dying a lot of these fights now just end with us looking at each other, waving, and going our separate ways. Not really much better.

Sure, I can easily pick off zerglings, and do well against averageish players, but who cares about that? I want to fight and have a chance to succeed against people better than me, that's where the fun is at, and it hard to do when the deck is stacked against you from the outset.

I know part of this is still my own skill too and I've got a lot of L2Ping to do, plus I've seen top tier magblades tear up people before so I know it's possible, but damn if the learning curve ain't so high it's basically in the heliosphere at this point. By comparison my DK, templar, and sorc were absolute cake.

MarzAttakz · May 2020

JayKwellen wrote: »

You can only see someone break free from fear and dodge your incap or bow so many times before you just start to feel sad. Or try to wear them down to execute range with light attacks and swallow souls, only to see their health bar not move (or simply fill back up despite your attacks) before you feel discouraged. Seeing a 21k tool tip bow and a 18k tool tip soul harvest only take maybe 1/4 of a stamcros health before you get hit by a blast ones and dizzy combo which takes half your life in an instant is just disheartening.

So much this that I bought the "Melancholy" personality and now my MagBlade can at least show how I feel inside.

fred4 · May 2020

I take back what I said about no CP as I've now played there a little longer and attempted to go for a little more of a standup playstyle. After all I am using Siphoning Attacks and an infused Restore Health enchant. Furthermore some people will say my build is cheesy, wearing Caluurion and Zaan. If you say that makes the class easier to play, you get no argument from me there, but I am now quite sure this is by no means OP on a magblade, not even in no CP.

How do I know? I ganked a magplar, I got the Caluurion proc, I got the Zaan proc, I pursued him with Swallow Soul, I got him in execute range, I spammed Impale, I got another Caluu proc while doing that, I got everything right, everything lined up, and he still healed through it all. He didn't even purge Zaan. Fair enough. Maybe the guy was built tanky? Nope. He dropped a Meteor on me, he wore Grothdarr, he spammed Sweeps and there was nothing I could do. Nothing. I could spam shields and prolong the agony for 2 or 3 seconds, then I was dead and got t-bagged by someone who was basically just OP in that matchup. There was nothing clever about how he defended when he was under attack. He didn't even use Mist Form, he just flat out outhealed my damage in no CP. There was nothing clever about his counterattack either.

And so it goes. This is not unique. It's just one example. You can barely do enough damage. You kill noobs, of course, but at best you trouble the better players, yet you can't kill them. Situations are always different, but that's the general gist of things. Yet when the tables turn, you had better be out of there. Use the shade or disengage some other way, because you cannot defend against the onslaught of not merely people's burst combos, but their spammables. This guy hit me with one Meteor, which I mostly outshielded, then he just spammed Sweeps. If you get caught in that and it's a "properly" specced player, it's already too late. Purifying Light? Who needs it.

Look, I'm not complaing here, I'm just taking score. This is how it is. You die not merely to people's burst, but also to some players' spammables. Jabs, Sweeps, Sorc Overload + their spammable or 1x Frags, sometimes Werewolf light attacks. All of that has killed me and when I look at combat logs, their spammables do 2x to 3x the damage I can do to them with mine. In some cases my Caluurion proc is less than other people's crit spammables. They're able to build tankier than me, they heal better than me and they're still dishing out obscene damage, if they can get a hold of me.

You have to be insanely circumspect as a nightblade. There is a stamblade running around in PC EU no CP IC. Seen him a few times. He's running Zaan and Bombard, a pretty cheesy combination. I got away once. He got me the second time, but at least that felt like he was operating on the same power level as me. That guy was good. He wasn't just using those skills. He used Assassin's Scourge, he used the Shade. He used everything at his disposal. The Bombard root was nasty af, but it still felt like an even matchup. He had to dodge roll a lot to deal with my damage. This other stuff, though, a templar flat out outhealing everything I can throw at them when my procs and my rotation all line up, only for them to turn around and have the damage to basically spam me to death with Sweeps, that is utter BS.

I'll say it again: I'm just stating facts. I'm well aware of the counter-argument, which goes something like: NB has Cloak and Shadow Image. The NB should be out of there and not put itself in that position. Also, as soon as there is group play, not in BGs but in open world, a Caluurion NB can be devastating when she jumps into a fight from Cloak and you didn't see her coming.

Next patch is going to be another general upheaval. I'm not going to ask for balance changes until the game is more settled, if it ever does, and until they have made some inroads into performance, if they ever do. I will, however, say to anyone who thinks magblade, and specifically Cloak, is OP: This is what the reality is like.

fred4 · May 2020

I want to add: Shielding is a pretty dumb thing to do on a build that's not properly specced for it, especially in no CP. Yet what options do you have? One option: Shadow Image. If that's not in place, I have found shielding the next best thing in CP, so I did what I was used to. I sometimes outmaneuvre players by going through them, but in this case I was trying to stay in the templars face. Yet when they do more damage in one GCD than your shield, you end up spamming and doomed. Shields work, if they free up a GCD for you or if they protect you from burst. They do not work if someone can just spam through them.

I have worn Eternal Hunt in the past and dodge rolled only to be still in reach of werewolf attacks. Casting RAT or Cloak in a players' face is not an option either, because they still hit you and kill you, while using Fear defensively is very hit and miss. Not only because they can have immunity, but because it's actually quite short range and the positioning of player characters on the server frequently doesn't match exactly what you see on screen.

Again, this is not meant as a complaint. This is meant to illustrate how circumspect and proactive you have to be. Of course that can be said for PvP in general, however it's hard to overstate how unforgiving nightblade is compared to other classes in this regard.

JusticeSouldier · May 2020

Draevik wrote: »

So all these magblades I see dominating BGs is just my imagination??? Weird I am not in the lowest of the low. You guys must not fight any good ones.

Magblades and Magsorcs are most usually tops on PS4 BGs. 2nd runner ups are DKs and Stamcros.

it means u play at low MMR.
At high MMR, it's one of the worst classes for battlegrounds.
Detection potions make cloak useless.
Without this - nothing to counter debuffs and dots.
Glass cannon class with very predictable burst ano nothing usefull for group.
Best definition for magblade is - noobkiller.

There sometimes happends overhealing tanky nightblades, hard to kill like ones.
And they can't kill almost anyone because to get this u must sacrifice damn huge amount of damage potential.

Noobkiller, very weak vs esperienced players, especially magplars, magsorcs and stamcros

Moose_Scout · May 2020

fred4 wrote: »

I take back what I said about no CP as I've now played there a little longer and attempted to go for a little more of a standup playstyle. After all I am using Siphoning Attacks and an infused Restore Health enchant. Furthermore some people will say my build is cheesy, wearing Caluurion and Zaan. If you say that makes the class easier to play, you get no argument from me there, but I am now quite sure this is by no means OP on a magblade, not even in no CP.

How do I know? I ganked a magplar, I got the Caluurion proc, I got the Zaan proc, I pursued him with Swallow Soul, I got him in execute range, I spammed Impale, I got another Caluu proc while doing that, I got everything right, everything lined up, and he still healed through it all. He didn't even purge Zaan. Fair enough. Maybe the guy was built tanky? Nope. He dropped a Meteor on me, he wore Grothdarr, he spammed Sweeps and there was nothing I could do. Nothing. I could spam shields and prolong the agony for 2 or 3 seconds, then I was dead and got t-bagged by someone who was basically just OP in that matchup. There was nothing clever about how he defended when he was under attack. He didn't even use Mist Form, he just flat out outhealed my damage in no CP. There was nothing clever about his counterattack either.

And so it goes. This is not unique. It's just one example. You can barely do enough damage. You kill noobs, of course, but at best you trouble the better players, yet you can't kill them. Situations are always different, but that's the general gist of things. Yet when the tables turn, you had better be out of there. Use the shade or disengage some other way, because you cannot defend against the onslaught of not merely people's burst combos, but their spammables. This guy hit me with one Meteor, which I mostly outshielded, then he just spammed Sweeps. If you get caught in that and it's a "properly" specced player, it's already too late. Purifying Light? Who needs it.

Look, I'm not complaing here, I'm just taking score. This is how it is. You die not merely to people's burst, but also to some players' spammables. Jabs, Sweeps, Sorc Overload + their spammable or 1x Frags, sometimes Werewolf light attacks. All of that has killed me and when I look at combat logs, their spammables do 2x to 3x the damage I can do to them with mine. In some cases my Caluurion proc is less than other people's crit spammables. They're able to build tankier than me, they heal better than me and they're still dishing out obscene damage, if they can get a hold of me.

You have to be insanely circumspect as a nightblade. There is a stamblade running around in PC EU no CP IC. Seen him a few times. He's running Zaan and Bombard, a pretty cheesy combination. I got away once. He got me the second time, but at least that felt like he was operating on the same power level as me. That guy was good. He wasn't just using those skills. He used Assassin's Scourge, he used the Shade. He used everything at his disposal. The Bombard root was nasty af, but it still felt like an even matchup. He had to dodge roll a lot to deal with my damage. This other stuff, though, a templar flat out outhealing everything I can throw at them when my procs and my rotation all line up, only for them to turn around and have the damage to basically spam me to death with Sweeps, that is utter BS.

I'll say it again: I'm just stating facts. I'm well aware of the counter-argument, which goes something like: NB has Cloak and Shadow Image. The NB should be out of there and not put itself in that position. Also, as soon as there is group play, not in BGs but in open world, a Caluurion NB can be devastating when she jumps into a fight from Cloak and you didn't see her coming.

Next patch is going to be another general upheaval. I'm not going to ask for balance changes until the game is more settled, if it ever does, and until they have made some inroads into performance, if they ever do. I will, however, say to anyone who thinks magblade, and specifically Cloak, is OP: This is what the reality is like.

Agree. The only good battles my NB has in Cyro right now are with other nightblades because it is the only fair match.

fred4 · May 2020

One more thing. If you haven't figured out how to deal with NBs yet, I'm not putting you down as a noob. It is a specific skill. I had an ad hoc duelling session in Vivec City the other day and defeated all the players there on my open world NB, who were maybe CP600 on average (hey, they all queued up to duel me

). To the best of my recollection this included a necro and a magsorc who hated NBs and cursed me, which is really ironic. Those guys were not beginners. They had done some duelling. They didn't go down quickly. You can be mid-level and not have figured out nightblades. You're going to figure it out. For example, for all the crap I talked about the above templar he did the right thing. He used Meteor just to make me block / shield and get me off his back for a second, then he spammed Sweeps. I can recommend that. Sweeps counters Cloak and that can be more important than getting Purifying Light up on the nightblade. Dumbing down your gameplay is something that can work well against them. You will figure out a strategy for your build too.