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Nightblade Class Identity/Balance
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MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭RavenSworn wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Now I dont know if you'll agree with me but here's my thoughts in changing the class. I've had it posted before:-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512046/class-core-identity-suggestions-and-revamps
Simply put, I would change its core mechanic to be much like the Titanborn set. At 50% health, you'd gain either extra weapon/spell damage or penetration. At 25-30%, you'd gain critical damage and increased armor. (Could switch a few things here and there, but the fundamental is as such)
Just like your recommendation, blur and veiled strike switches places so that the shadow line is a defensive line, rather than a mix and match.
Assassin's blade will now cost health rather than resources and will deal 500% execute damage.
Malevolent Offering will become the best single target healing but will now cost 1k health over 5s.
Soul Siphon would heal tether allies around you and heal them but will cost 100 health per second for each tether.
I would even add a new one, a Dark Shades now will spawn at target, activating the skill again will make you switch places with the dark shade. Dark shades however, can be targeted and have 1k health. Activating the skill costs magicka.
The shadow barrier passive will also increase with the number of slotted shadow skills rather than heavy armor, which imo is such a crutch for it to be useful.
my two cents.
Not a bad idea with the lower health thing. I assume you mean the target has lower health? If you mean the NB, my concern would be that you need to lose health to get good damage which would suit more of a bruiser kind of build. Shadow skills slotted is a good idea for duration as it would allow medium armor builds to make the most of Shadow Line skills. I still however think that Malevolent Offering should negatively affect a target though as the world Malevolent means malicious or spiteful, which does not make sense for a healing only ability. This is why I suggested a more 'leeching life' kind of heal as it is sucking out the life force of your target to heal allies. For assassin's blade, I think the main issue is the 25% threshold, its hard to get someone low enough and then activate the skill before they heal up. Sorcerer's on the other hand can 'cook' their execute, allowing them to put it on a target and just simply have it auto fire once a target gets to 25%, then if that takes them to 15% they have a chance to be instantly killed by a passive making for a double execute. Sorcerer's are better at finishing off a target than the class that is supposed to fill that role. I suggested the dot as I imagined it like a backstab style skill that causes heavy bleeding or disease.
I posted a lot of ideas to try and spice up the class, but the 3 main things I would like reworking are Blur swapped with Veiled Strike, Assassin's Blade to be a more dependable execute (Executioner and Whirling Blades do a better job) and Cloak. If these get sorted NB's will start to feel a lot better.
And Yes I would like ZoS to double down on the Shadow caster roleplaying for NB tanks and some better heals for the Siphoning line, just as long as the heals are 'siphoning' (stealing life from a target and passing it to allies).
Thats my pain point unfortunately. Alot of the other NB players dont really agree with each other on what makes a nightblade. Some want to buff nightblades without thinking of how Tankblades or healblades do their job and some want are totally ok with some of the abilities when it clearly is not doing what its suppose to (yes, im talking about cloak). So i wanted to introduce something that might work with all aspects of the nightblade, be it the ganker, the healer, the tank or the brawler.
Here's my reason though on why i chose that lowered health mechanic to be the core mechanic of NB. An 'all in, high risk style that rewards the bold and the adventurous". It goes with the roguish playstyle that befits the NB, since its like a cornered animal that retaliates back to its aggressors. It allows a sense of comeback for a playstyle that needs 'defensive mechanism' and like some of the sports casters have said, sometimes the best defense is a great offense.
Now for the healing NB, the way you heal is to use your own health (for some of the abilities) while you use magicka to generate heals for yourself. Now, there were many requests for better self healing, or burst heals and whatnot. Let's be real here, having a no cooldown burst heal, for a high pressure, high damage ganker is signing your own death warrant. Its just not worth the salt because that's where we got ended up. Cloak becoming a heal, reduced funnel health.. etc. It might look like its jumping through hoops but the balance has to be done right in terms of numbers.
When Malevolent Offering first came into the picture, it had the best single target heal of any class. Period. But the cost was great, since casting 4-5 MOs would decimate your health to a point of no return. At that point though, there isnt any reason for your health to go down and it looked to many a players to be a skill out of nowhere.
So, if there was a passive that can compliment that, change how NBs can gain an advantage when being under distress ( half health ), then it might have gotten abit of traction.
But it cant just be MO that have changes, it has to be a proper all out identity switch. Like, how does the devs want magblade to play? Melee magicka? Then why then Impale ranged? Ranged magicka? Then why is sap essence, the only way to gain a needed buff and concealed weapon, melee?
Agree, on the lack of identity for Magblades being ranged or melee, but it's not bad that both options are present, I think it just needs to be managed better. Personally, I feel that melee Magblades feel a bit weird anyway as they are still running a staff which is a ranged weapon. There are a number of options they could try to make melee magic builds more of a things potentially for all classes (spellblade skill line, new trait, new arena weapons etc)1 -
RavenSworn✭✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »RavenSworn wrote: »Now I dont know if you'll agree with me but here's my thoughts in changing the class. I've had it posted before:-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/512046/class-core-identity-suggestions-and-revamps
Simply put, I would change its core mechanic to be much like the Titanborn set. At 50% health, you'd gain either extra weapon/spell damage or penetration. At 25-30%, you'd gain critical damage and increased armor. (Could switch a few things here and there, but the fundamental is as such)
Just like your recommendation, blur and veiled strike switches places so that the shadow line is a defensive line, rather than a mix and match.
Assassin's blade will now cost health rather than resources and will deal 500% execute damage.
Malevolent Offering will become the best single target healing but will now cost 1k health over 5s.
Soul Siphon would heal tether allies around you and heal them but will cost 100 health per second for each tether.
I would even add a new one, a Dark Shades now will spawn at target, activating the skill again will make you switch places with the dark shade. Dark shades however, can be targeted and have 1k health. Activating the skill costs magicka.
The shadow barrier passive will also increase with the number of slotted shadow skills rather than heavy armor, which imo is such a crutch for it to be useful.
my two cents.
Not a bad idea with the lower health thing. I assume you mean the target has lower health? If you mean the NB, my concern would be that you need to lose health to get good damage which would suit more of a bruiser kind of build. Shadow skills slotted is a good idea for duration as it would allow medium armor builds to make the most of Shadow Line skills. I still however think that Malevolent Offering should negatively affect a target though as the world Malevolent means malicious or spiteful, which does not make sense for a healing only ability. This is why I suggested a more 'leeching life' kind of heal as it is sucking out the life force of your target to heal allies. For assassin's blade, I think the main issue is the 25% threshold, its hard to get someone low enough and then activate the skill before they heal up. Sorcerer's on the other hand can 'cook' their execute, allowing them to put it on a target and just simply have it auto fire once a target gets to 25%, then if that takes them to 15% they have a chance to be instantly killed by a passive making for a double execute. Sorcerer's are better at finishing off a target than the class that is supposed to fill that role. I suggested the dot as I imagined it like a backstab style skill that causes heavy bleeding or disease.
I posted a lot of ideas to try and spice up the class, but the 3 main things I would like reworking are Blur swapped with Veiled Strike, Assassin's Blade to be a more dependable execute (Executioner and Whirling Blades do a better job) and Cloak. If these get sorted NB's will start to feel a lot better.
And Yes I would like ZoS to double down on the Shadow caster roleplaying for NB tanks and some better heals for the Siphoning line, just as long as the heals are 'siphoning' (stealing life from a target and passing it to allies).
Thats my pain point unfortunately. Alot of the other NB players dont really agree with each other on what makes a nightblade. Some want to buff nightblades without thinking of how Tankblades or healblades do their job and some want are totally ok with some of the abilities when it clearly is not doing what its suppose to (yes, im talking about cloak). So i wanted to introduce something that might work with all aspects of the nightblade, be it the ganker, the healer, the tank or the brawler.
Here's my reason though on why i chose that lowered health mechanic to be the core mechanic of NB. An 'all in, high risk style that rewards the bold and the adventurous". It goes with the roguish playstyle that befits the NB, since its like a cornered animal that retaliates back to its aggressors. It allows a sense of comeback for a playstyle that needs 'defensive mechanism' and like some of the sports casters have said, sometimes the best defense is a great offense.
Now for the healing NB, the way you heal is to use your own health (for some of the abilities) while you use magicka to generate heals for yourself. Now, there were many requests for better self healing, or burst heals and whatnot. Let's be real here, having a no cooldown burst heal, for a high pressure, high damage ganker is signing your own death warrant. Its just not worth the salt because that's where we got ended up. Cloak becoming a heal, reduced funnel health.. etc. It might look like its jumping through hoops but the balance has to be done right in terms of numbers.
When Malevolent Offering first came into the picture, it had the best single target heal of any class. Period. But the cost was great, since casting 4-5 MOs would decimate your health to a point of no return. At that point though, there isnt any reason for your health to go down and it looked to many a players to be a skill out of nowhere.
So, if there was a passive that can compliment that, change how NBs can gain an advantage when being under distress ( half health ), then it might have gotten abit of traction.
But it cant just be MO that have changes, it has to be a proper all out identity switch. Like, how does the devs want magblade to play? Melee magicka? Then why then Impale ranged? Ranged magicka? Then why is sap essence, the only way to gain a needed buff and concealed weapon, melee?
Agree, on the lack of identity for Magblades being ranged or melee, but it's not bad that both options are present, I think it just needs to be managed better. Personally, I feel that melee Magblades feel a bit weird anyway as they are still running a staff which is a ranged weapon. There are a number of options they could try to make melee magic builds more of a things potentially for all classes (spellblade skill line, new trait, new arena weapons etc)
Aha but there is a way without needing to have a huge addition like a new weapon or skill line.
Siphoning Strikes - increase the magicka return per light attack / heavy attack. But reduced the amount of magicka return at end of the duration to balance it out.
Include minor fracture for Surprise attack and minor breach for concealed weapon.
Or exchange the reave mechanic from Incap and add it to veiled strike instead. Have the minor fracture and breach added to Incap.
While the changes to light heavy attacks might not be coming, it gives a different dimension if it does come about.Ingame: RavenSworn, Pc / NA.
Of Wolf and Raven
Solo / Casual guild for beginners and new players wanting to join the game. Pst me for invite!3 -
blkjag✭✭✭✭✭Deathlord92 wrote: »
But it’s ok for biting jabs to give major savagery be an aoe and snare this isn’t overloaded or what about blighted blast bones aoe very hard hitting and causes major defile this balanced? 🤣Deathlord92 wrote: »I love your ideas especially with the assassin skills as for SA giving it back major fracture is something a lot of us nb have asked for a long time. My hope is nb gets a buff during the pts could happen towards the end.
SA cannot have major fracture because you already have major ward and major resolve on shadow barrier.. Thats why they remove fracture.. Having major buff and major debuff on one skill is too much
100%^^^^^^
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MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Deathlord92 wrote: »
But it’s ok for biting jabs to give major savagery be an aoe and snare this isn’t overloaded or what about blighted blast bones aoe very hard hitting and causes major defile this balanced? 🤣Deathlord92 wrote: »I love your ideas especially with the assassin skills as for SA giving it back major fracture is something a lot of us nb have asked for a long time. My hope is nb gets a buff during the pts could happen towards the end.
SA cannot have major fracture because you already have major ward and major resolve on shadow barrier.. Thats why they remove fracture.. Having major buff and major debuff on one skill is too much
100%^^^^^^
Major Defile should only be on specific sets and maybe an Ultimate or 2. When we getting our third morphs? give me a Disease version of Soul Tether that instead pumps Disease foulness into enemies instead of healing any day.2 -
csparks1✭✭✭RavenSworn wrote: »There were so many things that can be done with the NB but ultimately, many of its 'gimmicks' or tricks were given to other classes or forms.
So WHAT IS THE NB IDENTITY?
ghost minion summon? thats taken up by Necro.
fast action, extreme movement combat? thats Sorc streak and channelled acceleration.
heal using DoTs? thats warden
heal using burst? thats Templar
heal using tethers? thats necro
Fear? theres already a skill in Fighter's guild that is better than the fear we have.
So WHAT IS A NIGHTBLADE?
Guess that about sums it up. So sad about my nb...
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I like your idea this would actually be really cool I mean look at power extractionMindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »
But it’s ok for biting jabs to give major savagery be an aoe and snare this isn’t overloaded or what about blighted blast bones aoe very hard hitting and causes major defile this balanced? 🤣Deathlord92 wrote: »I love your ideas especially with the assassin skills as for SA giving it back major fracture is something a lot of us nb have asked for a long time. My hope is nb gets a buff during the pts could happen towards the end.
SA cannot have major fracture because you already have major ward and major resolve on shadow barrier.. Thats why they remove fracture.. Having major buff and major debuff on one skill is too much
100%^^^^^^
Major Defile should only be on specific sets and maybe an Ultimate or 2. When we getting our third morphs? give me a Disease version of Soul Tether that instead pumps Disease foulness into enemies instead of healing any day.
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MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Deathlord92 wrote: »
I like your idea this would actually be really cool I mean look at power extractionMindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »
But it’s ok for biting jabs to give major savagery be an aoe and snare this isn’t overloaded or what about blighted blast bones aoe very hard hitting and causes major defile this balanced? 🤣Deathlord92 wrote: »I love your ideas especially with the assassin skills as for SA giving it back major fracture is something a lot of us nb have asked for a long time. My hope is nb gets a buff during the pts could happen towards the end.
SA cannot have major fracture because you already have major ward and major resolve on shadow barrier.. Thats why they remove fracture.. Having major buff and major debuff on one skill is too much
100%^^^^^^
Major Defile should only be on specific sets and maybe an Ultimate or 2. When we getting our third morphs? give me a Disease version of Soul Tether that instead pumps Disease foulness into enemies instead of healing any day.
Well Disease Damage in general is under represented. I did make a bruiser with Plague Slinger, Thorvukan and Night Terror as kind of a don't hit me or else build. Annoys the hell out of enemy players in PvP as after a while I suddenly get all the aggro lol.1 -
Suligost✭✭✭Rework NB, delete cloak and we might have something decent (devs will never buff class that can go invisible - which correctly would be very stupid thing).Edited by Suligost on May 9, 2020 2:13PM0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rework NB, delete cloak and we might have something decent (devs will never buff class that can go invisible - which correctly would be very stupid thing).
Or just rework the cloak. Make it permanent but give it a short CD once cloak is broken, this would give it tactical value without its current spammy nature.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rework NB, delete cloak and we might have something decent (devs will never buff class that can go invisible - which correctly would be very stupid thing).
Don't forget every class can now go permanently invisible with Vampire. Yes they have to run, but this is better than NB's current cloak.3 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
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That is actually scary, as we might will see for sure more "nerf stealth" threads. Also this will lead to more tools to counter stealth / invisibility... and looking at the amount of those we have in game, even if they somehow buff NB to the point it will be competitive, class will still rely heavily on invisibility...MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Rework NB, delete cloak and we might have something decent (devs will never buff class that can go invisible - which correctly would be very stupid thing).
Don't forget every class can now go permanently invisible with Vampire. Yes they have to run, but this is better than NB's current cloak.Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on May 9, 2020 8:05PM1 -
Suligost✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Rework NB, delete cloak and we might have something decent (devs will never buff class that can go invisible - which correctly would be very stupid thing).
Don't forget every class can now go permanently invisible with Vampire. Yes they have to run, but this is better than NB's current cloak.
Its not better but it add something that wasnt ment for them. You know what could also be easier? If penalty for using non-vampiric skills as NB would be lower then other classes (20% everyone, NB 14 or 10%).0 -
HyyydraSoul ShrivenDear @ZOS_GinaBruno ,
we can get feedback from the development team about Nightblade?? It would be nice to have your position on this
I care about my main character that I built, and it's a Nightblade. I think many others like me care about and want to go back to being competitive and having fun with their favorite class.
We support this game, we want to have fun here, but I find it would be really nice what you have in mind for this class.
What future awaits us?
Thanks in advance
Edited by Hyyydra on May 10, 2020 6:37PM6 -
csparks1✭✭✭Dear @ZOS_GinaBruno ,
we can get feedback from the development team about Nightblade?? It would be nice to have your position on this
I care about my main character that I built, and it's a Nightblade. I think many others like me care about and want to go back to being competitive and having fun with their favorite class.
We support this game, we want to have fun here, but I find it would be really nice what you have in mind for this class.
What future awaits us?
Thanks in advance
This ^^0 -
Foefaller✭✭✭I'm fairly new to the game, and even newer to playing Nightblade, but I have some thoughts about the class, at least from a thematic/uniqueness standpoint.
So, I've noticed that a lot of the buffs/debuffs are standardized, i.e. Major Brutality, minor Defile, burning/chilled/poisoned/etc., and so on. This is probably/obviously done to prevent most cases of stacking buffs and debuffs well beyond ZOE's intentions while still giving multiple classes and builds access to those effects.
However, outside of Destruction Staff, it seems that there are very few skills that take this the other way, where a skill might have a new or more powerful effect if used on someone that has a specific buff or debuff beyond just the effects of the (de)buff itself, which could be applied by several sources and becoming another way for skills between party members to build off each other.
Maybe Nightblades could get abilities like this? They already have an ult that lets them generate resources attacking targets that are debuffed, so there is already some precedent, and I'd argue another theme of the assassin-type character is the setup and planning that leads to that quick execution. Like maybe there is a Siphon passive that increases the healing done for abilities that target an enemy if the target has a Defile debuff, or have an Assassination morph that deals more damage if the target is under the Poisoned status effect.
I know that showing most buffs/debuffs on a target is not a default thing, and if ZOE did something like this they might limit it to those effects that actually have a visual effect already, but I think even just those could really give the NB a unique feel compared to other classes. Just a thought.Edited by Foefaller on May 11, 2020 3:35PM0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭I would be happy if they stopped deleting my playstyle every couple of patches.
I miss expedition on cripple.4 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭While I disagree with some and agree with some of your finer details, the truth is that nightblades need looking at. There are some skills like cloak that just don't work. While some skills like soul-siphon and incapacitating strike that have cast times that COMPLETELY destroy the identity of a fast paced, hard to play, but rewarding class."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"2 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moose_Scout wrote: »While I disagree with some and agree with some of your finer details, the truth is that nightblades need looking at. There are some skills like cloak that just don't work. While some skills like soul-siphon and incapacitating strike that have cast times that COMPLETELY destroy the identity of a fast paced, hard to play, but rewarding class.
Yes, I agree cast times are a bit of an issue with the class. A long time ago, Nightblades used to have Haste which increased their attack speed, but it did not work well with weaving and was very powerful and so was changed to Grim Focus. I have been thinking long and hard about what people have been saying with regards to this post and in other Nightblade posts, and it seems that the general consensus is the lack of identity. Cloak is a major point of contention. Some ask for it to be buffed whereas others ask for its removal completely. I personally think that cloak is not a bad ability 'per se' it just needs to synergise more with skills to give it a unique role.
As far as Magicka builds go, I now think they should stick with the Siphoning style and ditch the melee style altogether. Maybe, go for a shadowy curse style build that uses traps and bombs.
I understand the whole poison thing that others have mentioned but I would not want them to step on the toes of DK's and so they would have to be careful. My opinion is that they need more Disease morphs with at least one of them being a DoT (hence my suggestion to make one of the path morphs deal Disease Damage).
Personally, (and this is my prejudice opinion) I think NB identity should fulfil the following:
Stamina DPS:
Assassin Physical Damage Burst Style or Plague Disease Damage AoE sustained Style.
Magicka DPS
Siphoning Magic Damage DoT Style or Shadowy Traps and Bombs Burst Style.
Tanking:
Shadow Tank is cool.
Healing:
Lifedraining and Life Steal style and portion of damage dealt heals you and allies.
Despite all of this, I think pretty much everyone in the community is in agreement that at the very least Blur and Veiled Strike need to swap skill lines and cooldowns need to be reduced or gone completely. These changes alone would be a welcome one that has been waited on for years as others have mentioned in this post and others.1 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »Moose_Scout wrote: »While I disagree with some and agree with some of your finer details, the truth is that nightblades need looking at. There are some skills like cloak that just don't work. While some skills like soul-siphon and incapacitating strike that have cast times that COMPLETELY destroy the identity of a fast paced, hard to play, but rewarding class.
Yes, I agree cast times are a bit of an issue with the class. A long time ago, Nightblades used to have Haste which increased their attack speed, but it did not work well with weaving and was very powerful and so was changed to Grim Focus. I have been thinking long and hard about what people have been saying with regards to this post and in other Nightblade posts, and it seems that the general consensus is the lack of identity. Cloak is a major point of contention. Some ask for it to be buffed whereas others ask for its removal completely. I personally think that cloak is not a bad ability 'per se' it just needs to synergise more with skills to give it a unique role.
As far as Magicka builds go, I now think they should stick with the Siphoning style and ditch the melee style altogether. Maybe, go for a shadowy curse style build that uses traps and bombs.
I understand the whole poison thing that others have mentioned but I would not want them to step on the toes of DK's and so they would have to be careful. My opinion is that they need more Disease morphs with at least one of them being a DoT (hence my suggestion to make one of the path morphs deal Disease Damage).
Personally, (and this is my prejudice opinion) I think NB identity should fulfil the following:
Stamina DPS:
Assassin Physical Damage Burst Style or Plague Disease Damage AoE sustained Style.
Magicka DPS
Siphoning Magic Damage DoT Style or Shadowy Traps and Bombs Burst Style.
Tanking:
Shadow Tank is cool.
Healing:
Lifedraining and Life Steal style and portion of damage dealt heals you and allies.
Despite all of this, I think pretty much everyone in the community is in agreement that at the very least Blur and Veiled Strike need to swap skill lines and cooldowns need to be reduced or gone completely. These changes alone would be a welcome one that has been waited on for years as others have mentioned in this post and others.
I agree with you for the most part, though i think thematically it would make more sense for stamblades to do poison damage, and im not sure why we dont have passives encouraging the use of poisons, what being assassins and all. I think disease damage thematically pairs better with stam dks, though that mostly has to do with the themes and precedents established in scallecaller.0 -
OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
I actually really like minor vulnerabilty on lotus. Makes for a very good combo opener and one of the few NB changes in the last year and a half that I actually approve of. Though if you were to move it i think replacing expedition on path would be the way. Mark in my opinion just needs a complete rethink. Its not good at anything it does. Id hate to have minor vulnerability on it too because then id feel like im forced to use a skill that gives away my position.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
I actually really like minor vulnerabilty on lotus. Makes for a very good combo opener and one of the few NB changes in the last year and a half that I actually approve of. Though if you were to move it i think replacing expedition on path would be the way. Mark in my opinion just needs a complete rethink. Its not good at anything it does. Id hate to have minor vulnerability on it too because then id feel like im forced to use a skill that gives away my position.
Hmm, that's a point about revealing position. But does it really? It might reveal that 'a Nightblade is eyeing me' but I like that. It adds a psychological element to the skill. However, I would like it if only the NB and the target could see the mark. That would add a real cat and mouse aspect to it. Maybe it could have its own 'personal' damage taken debuff that only increases the damage a target takes from the NB that applied the mark. Then again, maybe not as it would not help teams out in PVE. Not sure what to do with Mark to be honest. I just think that being a generic Major Fracture, Breach debuff is a bit boring and not special. I even thought that it could operate like Power of the Light but then you are taking away the uniqueness of that skill, so... yeah its a tough one.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
I actually really like minor vulnerabilty on lotus. Makes for a very good combo opener and one of the few NB changes in the last year and a half that I actually approve of. Though if you were to move it i think replacing expedition on path would be the way. Mark in my opinion just needs a complete rethink. Its not good at anything it does. Id hate to have minor vulnerability on it too because then id feel like im forced to use a skill that gives away my position.
Hmm, that's a point about revealing position. But does it really? It might reveal that 'a Nightblade is eyeing me' but I like that. It adds a psychological element to the skill. However, I would like it if only the NB and the target could see the mark. That would add a real cat and mouse aspect to it. Maybe it could have its own 'personal' damage taken debuff that only increases the damage a target takes from the NB that applied the mark. Then again, maybe not as it would not help teams out in PVE. Not sure what to do with Mark to be honest. I just think that being a generic Major Fracture, Breach debuff is a bit boring and not special. I even thought that it could operate like Power of the Light but then you are taking away the uniqueness of that skill, so... yeah its a tough one.
Maybe, it should have a simple resistance debuff that is independent from Fracture and Breach. Similar to Alkosh and new Tremorscale. I think it would then see more use in PVE and be quite scary in PVP.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »
I actually really like minor vulnerabilty on lotus. Makes for a very good combo opener and one of the few NB changes in the last year and a half that I actually approve of. Though if you were to move it i think replacing expedition on path would be the way. Mark in my opinion just needs a complete rethink. Its not good at anything it does. Id hate to have minor vulnerability on it too because then id feel like im forced to use a skill that gives away my position.
Hmm, that's a point about revealing position. But does it really? It might reveal that 'a Nightblade is eyeing me' but I like that. It adds a psychological element to the skill. However, I would like it if only the NB and the target could see the mark. That would add a real cat and mouse aspect to it. Maybe it could have its own 'personal' damage taken debuff that only increases the damage a target takes from the NB that applied the mark. Then again, maybe not as it would not help teams out in PVE. Not sure what to do with Mark to be honest. I just think that being a generic Major Fracture, Breach debuff is a bit boring and not special. I even thought that it could operate like Power of the Light but then you are taking away the uniqueness of that skill, so... yeah its a tough one.
Maybe, it should have a simple resistance debuff that is independent from Fracture and Breach. Similar to Alkosh and new Tremorscale. I think it would then see more use in PVE and be quite scary in PVP.
Actually, this would not be a bad idea as currently Penetration is king in both PvE and PvP. By implementing a change like this NB's could not worry about penetration as much and instead focus on Crit which lets face it, suits them perfectly.
I think this point can translate into a greater discussion regarding all classes. In PVE there are meta sets that all classes end up running, I would like to see some in class changes that make room for more variety in endgame. I have always wanted more synergy between the classes in group content with each class bringing something unique, beneficial and desired that other classes do not bring. For Example:
Nightblades could (as in my suggesting) bring flat resistance debuffs through Mark.
Templars could bring flat Critical Chance to the group while an enemy is affected by shards or another ability.
Dragonknights could provide an 'inspired' group buff that gives flat Weapon and Spell Damage to the group temporarily.
Sorcerers could bring a 'power surge' group buff that increases their max stats temporarily.
Wardens could have a 'frostbitten' debuff that causes enemies to take additional damage while affected by their Winter's Revenge or Gripping Shards. Simply have one morph scale with highest stat, this would also allow Stamden's to make use of the Crit Damage on Chilled target's a bit easier.
Necromancers could have some kind of 'spirit essence' group buff that increase resource regen.
These would be on skills as opposed to passives and for the sake of balance and more interactive play, operate as an activated synergy... or not. I just think that outside of class identity we could also use more synergy when in groups, instead of every class having access to pretty much the same stuff.
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OWLTHEMAD✭✭✭✭I think mark should either frontload the major berserk or give the major berserk on kill to multiple people. I think the revealing one is fine as is.
As far as class unique damage buffs, i think nightblades really should improve group crit damage.0 -
MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think mark should either frontload the major berserk or give the major berserk on kill to multiple people. I think the revealing one is fine as is.
As far as class unique damage buffs, i think nightblades really should improve group crit damage.
That was my initial instinct, but I changed it to resistance debuff so they could then go for Crit sets and champion passives. Group wide crit damage would be nice too though, maybe Templars could have the resistance debuff.0 -
Moose_Scout✭✭✭Some of the skills are fine in principle...I doubt we will see any revolutionary re-working because they can't make money off something we already bought... Numbers wise ZOS just needs to make the nightblade skills better than the weapon/armor/guild skills. It is a general principle that class skills are very slightly better or different than the skills available to everyone. Right now, nightblade skills are weaker than than almost every other skill. As a result, my nightblade doesn't really serve a purpose. If those numbers are slightly tuned up, they would make sense."What a Grand and Intoxicating Innocence"1
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MindOfTheSwarm✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moose_Scout wrote: »Some of the skills are fine in principle...I doubt we will see any revolutionary re-working because they can't make money off something we already bought... Numbers wise ZOS just needs to make the nightblade skills better than the weapon/armor/guild skills. It is a general principle that class skills are very slightly better or different than the skills available to everyone. Right now, nightblade skills are weaker than than almost every other skill. As a result, my nightblade doesn't really serve a purpose. If those numbers are slightly tuned up, they would make sense.
Good point about the financial incentive. I wonder if they could counter that with some new highly desirable costumes, mounts and maybe a dungeon DLC and time it with a NB rework. Maybe the dungeon could have sets that are themed around NB's. That would help alleviate the financial concern a little bit.0