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Story arc out of context for new players
Everest_Lionheart
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I’m seeing tons of threads here from veteran players regarding bugs and changes but here is one for the new players to ESO.
I started playing the game two weeks ago, preordered greymoor digital collectors edition bought and ESO+ sub and got off and running.
The first zone they dropped me in was Northern Elsweyr. You wake up learn a couple of basics and then off you go. Following the quests as they come up, taking side quests if that’s your thing somewhere along the line meeting a bunch of main NPC along the way and generally getting immersed in the story. So I finished the zone, got a sweet house and then wondered what to do next. No literally there is no real marker pointing you anywhere as a new player. I still had a few unresolved quests in my log including “The Demon Weapon” (more on this later)
So I spent tons of time reading online to understand mechanics because the game literally says here is how to block and how to swing your sword and sends you on your merry way. So I figured I would check out where to go next. Naturally I searched for ESO main quest and read through several posts here and other forums to figure out how to actually start it. As a new player getting defaulted into Elsweyr content you have no idea if this is the way the game itself starts or not.
So anyway after jumping through a few hoops I was on the main quest finally with some sweet new toys plus a solid leg up that I basically face rolled most of that starting content including the beginner island and beginner city. I smashed through several quests in the Harborage meeting NPC’s I had already met who had no idea who I was? Say what? Context anyone?
So basically I played the end before the beginning, fair enough I’ve seen this movie before, but wait it gets better and by better I mean worse. So as I said I rolled through a bunch of main content when it suddenly stopped. Now being an experienced RPG veteran I understand that things can be gated, so I completed the first zone story, nothing unlocks in the main line so I get into the second zone. Knocked out the second zone, no change in main quest. So started the third zone sitting on 8/13 and still nothing directing me back to main quest.
So I came online to see if maybe it’s also level gated. Reading through post after post and seeing the main quest is bugged going back to 2019 (and still bugged apparently, not cool but I digress.) Found the solution and it related to “The Demon Weapon” quest which locks Abnar Tharn from the main quest line. So not only is the main quest out of context for players starting with the expansion it is also bugged to boot.
So new players be warned the Elsweyr expansion I basically a massive out of context spoiler for what is to come later (or is that before, it’s so confusing!) Even more bizarre is that it essentially plays out in reverse. You start in Elsweyr, along the way you get the prologue quest to Elsweyr, and when you are finished Elsweyr you need to go elsewhere to start your main quest and you better drop that prologue quest or else you have no idea where to go later in the main story.
It’s an riddle, wrapped in an enigma, shrouded in mystery.
I started playing the game two weeks ago, preordered greymoor digital collectors edition bought and ESO+ sub and got off and running.
The first zone they dropped me in was Northern Elsweyr. You wake up learn a couple of basics and then off you go. Following the quests as they come up, taking side quests if that’s your thing somewhere along the line meeting a bunch of main NPC along the way and generally getting immersed in the story. So I finished the zone, got a sweet house and then wondered what to do next. No literally there is no real marker pointing you anywhere as a new player. I still had a few unresolved quests in my log including “The Demon Weapon” (more on this later)
So I spent tons of time reading online to understand mechanics because the game literally says here is how to block and how to swing your sword and sends you on your merry way. So I figured I would check out where to go next. Naturally I searched for ESO main quest and read through several posts here and other forums to figure out how to actually start it. As a new player getting defaulted into Elsweyr content you have no idea if this is the way the game itself starts or not.
So anyway after jumping through a few hoops I was on the main quest finally with some sweet new toys plus a solid leg up that I basically face rolled most of that starting content including the beginner island and beginner city. I smashed through several quests in the Harborage meeting NPC’s I had already met who had no idea who I was? Say what? Context anyone?
So basically I played the end before the beginning, fair enough I’ve seen this movie before, but wait it gets better and by better I mean worse. So as I said I rolled through a bunch of main content when it suddenly stopped. Now being an experienced RPG veteran I understand that things can be gated, so I completed the first zone story, nothing unlocks in the main line so I get into the second zone. Knocked out the second zone, no change in main quest. So started the third zone sitting on 8/13 and still nothing directing me back to main quest.
So I came online to see if maybe it’s also level gated. Reading through post after post and seeing the main quest is bugged going back to 2019 (and still bugged apparently, not cool but I digress.) Found the solution and it related to “The Demon Weapon” quest which locks Abnar Tharn from the main quest line. So not only is the main quest out of context for players starting with the expansion it is also bugged to boot.
So new players be warned the Elsweyr expansion I basically a massive out of context spoiler for what is to come later (or is that before, it’s so confusing!) Even more bizarre is that it essentially plays out in reverse. You start in Elsweyr, along the way you get the prologue quest to Elsweyr, and when you are finished Elsweyr you need to go elsewhere to start your main quest and you better drop that prologue quest or else you have no idea where to go later in the main story.
It’s an riddle, wrapped in an enigma, shrouded in mystery.
19
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Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh, yes. It's a puzzle. The way it should be working is that every new player (that is, one who has never played any tutorial) should go straight to the original game MQ (the first Coldharbour situation with Lyris and the Prophet). Unfortunately, ZOS (being known for the "money-hungry" sort of thing) wants everyone to start in the newest content - presumably so as to get the most money up front.
That's stupid and short-sighted in the extreme of course. Because starting in Elsweyr leaves a new player with no context at all. And while I was perfectly happy to google how to get to the real MQ (after getting dropped into Morrowind since almost 2 years ago I didn't get ZOS's stupidity in this area), some people will not either A: understand that they need to use an online search engine to figure out what's going on in a game; or B: WANT to go there due to just wanting to "start at the beginning".
ZOS has seriously deflated the ball, not just dropped it, on this particular thing. And for some reason (money most likely) they are not at all interested in making it possible for new players to choose where to start. Highly annoying, especially for someone like me who is one of those "start at the BEGINNING goddamit" people. Which is how I write, and it's VERY irritating that a major game company can't get it anywhere close to right.8 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tbh we had many threads already open trying to get them to let us chose the freaking tutorial we want. No official answer yet.3 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tbh we had many threads already open trying to get them to let us chose the freaking tutorial we want. No official answer yet.
I did read some but I didn’t want to necro them. But I did point to this one also because it’s the latest content and also has a huge bug that has been known about for a long time that still hasn’t been resolved. Also their is new content coming out that will only likely further complicate the issue even more.
Also with what seems to be a huge influx of players (on XB1 anyway) I want anyone that comes to the forums to get some info to have a chance to see the issue up front and choose the appropriate path before they invest in out of context content.0 -
vivisectvib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Is there any word on if this is on the table to fix? As stated, the story is all out of whack. ie: when you run into "Greymoor Prequel Lyris" after having just left her in the Wailing Prison...4 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a new player getting defaulted into Elsweyr content you have no idea if this is the way the game itself starts or not.
The devs made this intentional as a way to satisfy the new players that purchased the game because of the hyped current Chapter content. When ESO: Elsweyr released, everyone who saw the trailers and hype bought the game because of Elsweyr, so ZOS creates a new tutorial zone that places new characters straight into Elsweyr. If a player bought ESO because of Elsweyr, but then has their character placed into The Wailing Prison, and then after that gets dumped into the starter zone for their Alliance, they're gonna immediately ask where Elsweyr is. It's unfortunate, and with how discovering the main story questline works now, a new player, exactly like yourself, has no idea how to find the main story questline short of researching it.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!1 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_SarahHecker Is there any word on if this is on the table to fix? As stated, the story is all out of whack. ie: when you run into "Greymoor Prequel Lyris" after having just left her in the Wailing Prison...
Could be worse like doing Southern Elsweyr before the main quest, then you go Sacrifice Sai Sahan only to find him later in the Dragonguard Sancturary like nothing is wrong.2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS' general idea, and they aren't entirely incorrect, is that its better marketing to make it obvious that new players can just straight into the new content they bought without having to play/grind through hours of other stories first.
Does that mean the story is out of order?
Yes. Elsweyr is a particularly appalling example.
Could ZOS give us a choice about where to start and still preserve that "you can start in the new content" feeling?
I think they could, giving everyone the option to start in Coldharbor or reexperience the old chapter tutorials according to their roleplaying desires.0 -
vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭This has been a problem ever since the first chapter, Morrowind, but it's been made an even worse problem since they started introducing Main Quest characters in the newer content, so since Elsweyr. Nobody liked it when Morrowind launched, and nobody likes it especially now. Unfortunately, it's going to keep being a problem until ZOS gets it that it's irritating, disruptive, and confusing to new players.
The game is complex enough as it is, and getting more complex with each expansion. Does ZOS really want to pile up on top of that with questing conundrums? Especially since quest content is (probably) their biggest money maker. Why else would they dump a third of their budget on voice acting?
And honestly, even giving people a choice on where to start as a new player is troublesome, because how could a new player know the effects of starting in the "original tutorial" vs. the new chapter? They should just make everyone start in the Wailing Prison, problem solved.
Most players coming from other MMOs are probably, like OP, used to gated content and perfectly ok with it. And TES fans won't know the difference anyway and won't mind. ZOS is pandering to a non-existent audience.Edited by vestahls on May 13, 2020 10:36AM“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
simple as3 -
logarifmik✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here we go again. I said it before, I'll say it again, "fractured but whole" approach to the narrative must go. We at very least need an in-game guide through the story and ability to choose where to start. Played starting from Morrowind on my second character and it feels wrong, despite the fact that Morrowind chapter story is great.EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
Dimitri Frernis | Breton Sorcerer | Damage Dealer | Daggerfall Covenant
Scales-of-Ice | Argonian Warden | Tank / Healer | Daggerfall Covenant1 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed!Sylvermynx wrote: »Eh, yes. It's a puzzle. The way it should be working is that every new player (that is, one who has never played any tutorial) should go straight to the original game MQ (the first Coldharbour situation with Lyris and the Prophet).
It would have been so easy... it still could be.
All they really need to do is start everyone in the coldharbour tutorial, maybe even upgrade that one to make it more nifty...
...and redo all the other turorials to "Chapter Intros" that play for -everyone- (just minus the "collect basic gear" and "learn to fight" parts) who starts those chapters.
And then... let all people go to their normal mainstory start, but with the -OPTION- to just skip ahead to some chapter prologue IF they so choose in the first city after the starter isle. (which would also fix the "Abner Tharn" issue)
I always assumed to "wow" them with the latest scenery... but... that created certain issues...Sylvermynx wrote: »Unfortunately, ZOS (being known for the "money-hungry" sort of thing) wants everyone to start in the newest content - presumably so as to get the most money up front.
...yeah, that. Exactly that.Sylvermynx wrote: »That's stupid and short-sighted in the extreme of course. Because starting in Elsweyr leaves a new player with no context at all.
Not nice for new players.
Not nice at all -points to OP-
It would be better for them to add more glimpses of things to come to the basic game... show off in the coldharbour tutorial and the starter isles, then let people pick their own pace as to which way they wanna go. With the "classic story progression" as the baseline, but all the -OPTIONS- to skip ahead (or sideways in some cases) as the player chooses.
They could do so much with this... completely rework the "coldharbour escape" into the best tutorial they can imagine, heck, perhaps even picking up another old idea and removing both alliance and class selection from chargen and letting people pick their classes during the tutorial in a "make your choice" scene which would be far more immersive...
Like, just add another room where Molag Bal tortures some poor damned souls, and there is an overseer to defeat (combat tutorial) that drops a single keystone... and whoever the player picks to release will imbue their characters with their class.
Heck, they could even have mutliple "archetypes" for each class... like... free either the deadra, or the archmage, or the maormer storm caller, and you go sorc; free the dryad, or the wyress, or the treeminder, and go warden, free the assassin, or the vampire, or the illusionist, go nightblade, free the crusader, the priest or the golden saint, go templar, free the dragonguard, the pyromancer or the knight, and go DK, free the lich, cultist or draugr for necromancer... something like that.
And at the final escape vortex, those who have "ARAA" or an imperial character even get a choice as to where (aka, which alliance) they want to pop out...
So, yeah, they could refit this if they so choose.
I wish they did...1 -
lethality_ESO✭✭✭I've had the opposite experience.
I started in March, and began with Elsweyr. I followed only the main story arc quests (no side quests) and believe that its the most cohesive storytelling in any MMO I've played.
I did look on the official ESO website just to make sure I followed the correct next step in content:
Wrathstone DLC (2 dungeons) ->
Elseweyr Prologue ->
Elsweyr Chapter (Northern Elseweyr) ->
Scalebreaker DLC (2 Dungeons) ->
Dragonhold Prologue ->
Dragonhold DLC (Southern Elsweyr)
I've not done the main quest, and have only gone back to do some Elseweyr side quests while I wait for Greymoor.
It has been pretty much perfect for me.
That said, without making one a necessarily "hard prerequisite" for the other, it's just something that comes with the territory of an episodic MMO. Can't work like a single player game.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭New players (i.e. players without a Champion-level char) that want to play the quest should start in the starting zone. They should give that option instead of dropping you into the latest DLC/Chapter without any context.
Ideally you should have a choice. But if your choice is to be locked in for you, then for a new player it makes more sense to be locked into the starting zone then the latest chapter. Otherwise it just breaks continuity and immersion massively.EU | PC | AD2 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
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...and that is exactly the problem. When you have to look it up to follow the next step...lethality_ESO wrote: »I did look on the official ESO website just to make sure I followed the correct next step in content...
Like I always say, make the "classic" storyline progression the baseline, BUT add options to allow experienced players to skip ahead as they please if they so choose. Problem solved.
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KaGaOri✭✭✭✭New players (i.e. players without a Champion-level char) that want to play the quest should start in the starting zone. They should give that option instead of dropping you into the latest DLC/Chapter without any context.
Ideally you should have a choice. But if your choice is to be locked in for you, then for a new player it makes more sense to be locked into the starting zone then the latest chapter. Otherwise it just breaks continuity and immersion massively.
Agreed. And if they're set on not allowing us to choose the tutorial, then there should be big arrow at the end of it, pointing into appropriate starting zone, labeled: "Are you new player? Then start HERE, buddy." We shouldn't have to google it. Suppose some folks won't mind doing Elsweyr chapter first, but some of us want to start at the beginning. Why isn't Zenimax getting it?0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lethality_ESO wrote: »I've had the opposite experience.
I started in March, and began with Elsweyr. I followed only the main story arc quests (no side quests) and believe that its the most cohesive storytelling in any MMO I've played.
I did look on the official ESO website just to make sure I followed the correct next step in content:
Wrathstone DLC (2 dungeons) ->
Elseweyr Prologue ->
Elsweyr Chapter (Northern Elseweyr) ->
Scalebreaker DLC (2 Dungeons) ->
Dragonhold Prologue ->
Dragonhold DLC (Southern Elsweyr)
I've not done the main quest, and have only gone back to do some Elseweyr side quests while I wait for Greymoor.
It has been pretty much perfect for me.
That said, without making one a necessarily "hard prerequisite" for the other, it's just something that comes with the territory of an episodic MMO. Can't work like a single player game.
Each 'story arc', such as the Year of the Dragon, is fairly cohesive within its own storyline. Elsweyr fails a bit if you start in the tutorial with dragons and later do the Elsweyr Prologue where you release the dragons, but otherwise it isn't so bad.
Where we run into storytelling problems is where the arcs intersect. Elsweyr borrows a lot of NPCs from the Main Quest, which happens chronologically before Elsweyr. So players who do Elsweyr first will later do the MQ and be like "Abnur? Sai? Cadwell? Remember me? Nope?"
Also, not to spoiler the MQ, but Abnur and Sai are quite literally not available for adventuring until you do certain quests.
It all depends on how much you care about NPC interactions making sense when you meet them in other content that takes place in the "past", if the developers acknowledged that there is still a chronology to the zones from how they were designed as level-locked zones at launch. For example, the six AD zones tell a very cohesive story you do them in order. Mix them around, as you now can thanks to One Tamriel, and the story no longer makes sense. YMMV on the pros and cons of that choice.0 -
indigorune✭✭✭Yes, I feel your pain. I started playing when Summerset first came out, but I didn't want to spend that much on a game I wasn't sure I'd like, so I just got the base game, which at that time had Morrowind bundled in. I made my way all through Morrowind and completed the whole zone never even knowing about the main story line. It was confusing and I hated how NPCs I had met acted like I never met them.
It's cool that each new chapter has a new tutorial offered, but as many MANY others have said--we should be given the option to chose!!Edited by indigorune on May 13, 2020 5:01PMPC-NA | EP
PvE main --> K'hira - Khajiiti stamblade
Trade Guild: Free Marketers0 -
Cellentel✭✭✭✭This problem persists in Greymoor. The Hooded Figure for starting the base game main quest shows up in Solitude (I don’t think he shows up in any of the other chapter zones), meaning new players can get pulled into the Wailing Prison and meet an alternate reality version of a key Greymoor character mid-quest in the Greymoor main quest.
Fortunately, since this is Elder Scrolls, we can just throw up our hands and say “Dragon Break” and everything becomes lore-friendly again.0 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭OP here again. Reviewing this since I posted quite a while ago in my ESO journey.
I would say my two biggest issues here are what to do after you have completed the DLC chapter if you are a new player. The quest pointers are all over the place. I remember having the quest to meet the hooded figure (main story starter) and from within Northern Elsweyr I took a carriage from Rimmen to the next marker which took me to Grahtwood. That’s not where the quest starts either as I found out after wandering around for nearly an hour. Eventually I made my way to Vulkhel Guard where the actual quest begins after I googled it. That’s a huge flaw jumping from Elsweyr back to the main story.
Now not knowing a few of the characters and meeting them for the first time in Elsweyr was no big deal, but meeting them on the main quest they had no idea who I was, I found that weird. That kills context and immersion a bit but the stories if you can separate them in your mind are still good.
My third issue as mentioned was main quest line being locked behind a prequel quest. Again I had to search for this and learn how to undo it to progress the main story. That’s not just immersion breaking it’s also game breaking if you don’t actively search for the solution yourself.
The game could do a better job of giving you a roadmap of where to go to follow the game in order should you choose. I am all for 100% open world but the stories and characters that cross over need to be better meshed in or gated to make full sense.
Still love the game though!0
