Why don’t people pvp

Q_Q · May 2020

I’m a solo player and more times than not, like 95% of the time, when I’m out front of an ad keep five siege immediately go up and 4 snipers are on walls. Is this necessary?

This is just one example. Another would be zerging solo players and then once you get even numbers you run back to a aless from sej.

The point is, y’all shouldn’t worry about valuing your characters life more than your irl life. It’s a game. Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die. I know it’s not fun running and hiding all the time.

redspecter23 · May 2020

It may not be about dying necessarily. A player can contribute to a fight by dying, but in the same way, a death can be a massive detriment to any given fight. Running can be a valid tactic if you can keep the enemy busy by doing it.

One time, I had 2 extremely good low man pvp players after me. I ran. They chased. 10 minutes later, they did eventually catch up to me and stayed on my corpse for the entire time I was able to stay there. From their point of view they won that fight. From my point of view, I took the two best players in a small man pvp group off the map for 20 minutes while the rest of my team in coms took keeps and resources without those two players able to help stop them. I saw it as a win.

Atherakhia · May 2020

The problem is Cyrodiil has turned into a joke. It is completely unplayable for about 20 out of 24 hours of the day. Due to this, most people aren't really dedicated to getting anything real accomplished. They go in, get their tier 1 reward, and go to their next alt to do the same. Due to the game being unplayable due to poor server performance, you force players to do nothing but hang out in relative safety in large groups or on walls attacking from range.

If you want people to contribute more, you need a game that allows them to do so. That isn't ESO.

Integral1900 · May 2020

I don’t pvp because I don’t enjoy it.... it’s not that hard to understand is it? 🤨

Kadoin · May 2020

They are free to play the game how they see fit, that is why.

Sable751 · May 2020

Its simple, having read the posts from the PVP players on this forum there is no way I want to spend my free time having any kind of interaction with them.

Dojohoda · May 2020

The ones who play from the wall might not be comfortable getting down into the fight or maybe tired that evening. New people are still learning that it is normal and okay to get down there and fight.

I like jumping down off the wall and fighting, even though I am usually on a ranged magblade. I lotus fan right into it. If it doesn't work out for me, I rez and go back to it.

VaranisArano · May 2020

Well, in the first example, if I'm setting up siege its because I expect you to be the first player trickling in from the horde behind you. Depending on what keep you are dancing around in front of, its pretty easy to predict whether or not a bunch of players are coming to attack it soon. And, no offense if this isn't your strategy, but I also prefer not to get baited off the wall by solo players who are going to turn tail and run until they draw me into a protracted LOS fight around some nearby rocks and trees that, even if I disengage will leave me stuck in combat. It especially sucks to get baited off the wall into a 1v1...and then rolled over by the raid that arrives to set up siege. I call it "Schroedinger's Duelist." You might just want a straight-up duel, you might be a waste of time, or you might be a trap, and I won't know unless I engage.

In the second example, I generally see PUGs turn and run when:
A. They realized they left the siege at home and their light attacks aren't bringing down the door. We killed the easy targets, but now there's no more AP to be had, so lets go home and let them feed us AP for a while.
B. Between Alessia and Sej? Can anyone say "bridge fight"?

As a general rule of thumb, I find it helps to consider that players have a lot of different incentives in Cyrodiil and, depending on their playstyle, those incentives don't always reward stopping to fight every single player. Its especially noticeable with "Schroedinger's Duelist" as players have to weigh "Is what I want to do worth missing out on if this guy turns out to be a trap or a time-waster?"

oxygen_thief · May 2020

cyrodil is for ap farming emp selling and other stuff like that. its also way too boring and laggy. i play battlegrounds when i want to pvp. you can go to ic as well there are no walls or sieges in ic but a lot of sweaty pvp vs hardened groups in the most cheesy builds

Akinos · May 2020

Integral1900 wrote: »

I don’t pvp because I don’t enjoy it.... it’s not that hard to understand is it? 🤨

Read what the thread starter said..they are talking about the people that DO go into cyrodil for PvP, but just run away from actual PvP most of the time. I agree with them and their experience too because the same thing happens to me.

Q_Q · May 2020

Atherakhia wrote: »

The problem is Cyrodiil has turned into a joke. It is completely unplayable for about 20 out of 24 hours of the day. Due to this, most people aren't really dedicated to getting anything real accomplished. They go in, get their tier 1 reward, and go to their next alt to do the same. Due to the game being unplayable due to poor server performance, you force players to do nothing but hang out in relative safety in large groups or on walls attacking from range.

If you want people to contribute more, you need a game that allows them to do so. That isn't ESO.

I’m dealing with the same lag if not worse since I 1vx and have to heal/buff and do damage without skills working. I still don’t run or hide.

You are right, however, Cyrodiil is a joke from the performance, to bugs, all the way to the majority of player base not wanting their virtual character to die.

Q_Q · May 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Well, in the first example, if I'm setting up siege its because I expect you to be the first player trickling in from the horde behind you. Depending on what keep you are dancing around in front of, its pretty easy to predict whether or not a bunch of players are coming to attack it soon. And, no offense if this isn't your strategy, but I also prefer not to get baited off the wall by solo players who are going to turn tail and run until they draw me into a protracted LOS fight around some nearby rocks and trees that, even if I disengage will leave me stuck in combat. It especially sucks to get baited off the wall into a 1v1...and then rolled over by the raid that arrives to set up siege. I call it "Schroedinger's Duelist." You might just want a straight-up duel, you might be a waste of time, or you might be a trap, and I won't know unless I engage.

In the second example, I generally see PUGs turn and run when:
A. They realized they left the siege at home and their light attacks aren't bringing down the door. We killed the easy targets, but now there's no more AP to be had, so lets go home and let them feed us AP for a while.
B. Between Alessia and Sej? Can anyone say "bridge fight"?

As a general rule of thumb, I find it helps to consider that players have a lot of different incentives in Cyrodiil and, depending on their playstyle, those incentives don't always reward stopping to fight every single player. Its especially noticeable with "Schroedinger's Duelist" as players have to weigh "Is what I want to do worth missing out on if this guy turns out to be a trap or a time-waster?"

Haha thanks for making me smile.
I was picturing myself kiting players around rocks at aless when you said that haha. However I only lite if I have to reposition and get a head count. Also to avoid the pesky snipers that everyone is running now.

“Light attacks not destroying door” lol

Pauls · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die. I know it’s not fun running and hiding all the time.

This is what zerglings would convince you to because they arent happy when players escape to get a chance of striking back in more suitable environment, zerglings want you dead on spot.

Tommy_The_Gun · May 2020

For me there is no reason to PvP. I have achieved max alliance rank, got all the skill points, all Cyro achievements, skyshards, won a lot of campaigns... I have a lot of Transmute crystals bags and AP banked... and nothing to spend them on...

If PvP was fun to play, then yeah, I would probably play it. But the thing is - it is not. It does not matter what build I will run if we have non-existing server performance.

geonsocal · May 2020

I enjoy not letting other players kill me...it frustrates them...

nothing better than hitting someone with a ranged knockdown or knockback skill and then slipping through a door so they can't retaliate...

or, pouring oil over a group while they try to break down the inner door, and then slipping away before they come up stairs to kill you...

lots of little pvp games within the game...

idk · May 2020

[snip]

idc if I am running solo of running with my small group guild, if we see enemy players at or near one of our keeps we will kill them regardless it being one or many enemy players. They do not belong there.

If you have an aversion to dying in PvP then I suggest you do not venture from the safe walls of your home keep.

[Edit for bait.]

Q_Q · May 2020

geonsocal wrote: »

I enjoy not letting other players kill me...it frustrates them....

lots of little pvp games within the game...

Haha you are very right about that!

Personally I like fighting and if it’s a warden/necro or 35k+ perma blocker I hop away and their damage never hurts me

Q_Q · May 2020

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

For me there is no reason to PvP. I have achieved max alliance rank, got all the skill points, all Cyro achievements, skyshards, won a lot of campaigns... I have a lot of Transmute crystals bags and AP banked... and nothing to spend them on...

If PvP was fun to play, then yeah, I would probably play it. But the thing is - it is not. It does not matter what build I will run if we have non-existing server performance.

Agree. Personally idc bout any of that stuff you mentioned I’m only after good fights. Which is few and far between anymore.

newtinmpls · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

It’s a game. Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die. I know it’s not fun running and hiding all the time.

It's a game.

Dying a LOT, which is what happens to me in PvP, is not fun for me.

So I don't do it.

fred4 · May 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

It may not be about dying necessarily. A player can contribute to a fight by dying, but in the same way, a death can be a massive detriment to any given fight. Running can be a valid tactic if you can keep the enemy busy by doing it.

One time, I had 2 extremely good low man pvp players after me. I ran. They chased. 10 minutes later, they did eventually catch up to me and stayed on my corpse for the entire time I was able to stay there. From their point of view they won that fight. From my point of view, I took the two best players in a small man pvp group off the map for 20 minutes while the rest of my team in coms took keeps and resources without those two players able to help stop them. I saw it as a win.

That's a valid point of view, but those two players were likely not into sieging or defending keeps anyway. Still, they didn't give your faction any hassle, I suppose.

fred4 · May 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

I call it "Schroedinger's Duelist." You might just want a straight-up duel, you might be a waste of time, or you might be a trap, and I won't know unless I engage.

That's both clever and apt. I like it.

idk · May 2020

redspecter23 wrote: »

It may not be about dying necessarily. A player can contribute to a fight by dying, but in the same way, a death can be a massive detriment to any given fight. Running can be a valid tactic if you can keep the enemy busy by doing it.

One time, I had 2 extremely good low man pvp players after me. I ran. They chased. 10 minutes later, they did eventually catch up to me and stayed on my corpse for the entire time I was able to stay there. From their point of view they won that fight. From my point of view, I took the two best players in a small man pvp group off the map for 20 minutes while the rest of my team in coms took keeps and resources without those two players able to help stop them. I saw it as a win.

This is a good point. Even with running, it can be more effective. I like trolling a group and drawing them across the map. Sometimes killing them one at a time and other times getting them to follow me into a group from my alliance. It is like they see a shiny and lose all ability to think.

fred4 · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

I’m a solo player and more times than not, like 95% of the time, when I’m out front of an ad keep five siege immediately go up and 4 snipers are on walls. Is this necessary?

This is just one example. Another would be zerging solo players and then once you get even numbers you run back to a aless from sej.

The point is, y’all shouldn’t worry about valuing your characters life more than your irl life. It’s a game. Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die. I know it’s not fun running and hiding all the time.

[snip] Lots of people aren't that good. They do what they can and they know it. They may still enjoy the game.

Not dying is an accomplishment when you first enter Cyrodiil. You could argue that players should progress beyond that, but that's ultimately their choice. If they merely aim to stay alive, the reasons no doubt vary from "I can't do any better" to "I don't want to die right now, because of X". That may include giving players like you the middle finger. The fact that you created this thread kind of proves the point.

When you progress to becoming an elite player, capable of 1vXing, you tend to garner respect from your peers. This can, in some cases, lead to other elite players standing by while you do your thing. Unfortunately that reinforces elite vs zerg divisions. "Zerglings" know they can only take you on with superior numbers from their own social group. Withdrawing when there are even numbers merely reflects their self-awareness, just as you might withdraw (to rocks at least) when you judge a situation as too dangerous.

On the other hand they may simply be told on Discord to move on to the next keep, rather than wasting more time with hard to kill small-scalers. In the case of the 4 snipers on the wall, you are simply a goldmine to them. I've gotten sizeable defensive ticks (5K) by merely repairing a wall while there was a duel going on outside. In the absence of wall repair, getting some damage in on you is probably worth it. Very good, for example, on characters that only want the 25K AP for a geode and are possibly underleveled.

[Minor edit for bait.]

Gilvoth · May 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

They are free to play the game how they see fit, that is why.

well said.

Q_Q wrote: »

I’m a solo player and more times than not, like 95% of the time, when I’m out front of an ad keep five siege immediately go up and 4 snipers are on walls.

the main idea is to play how you like, and ignore other people insulting you for playing differently then you.
if you like using a bow or shield or an axe, thats the freedom we have, and i pray that never changes in eso.

AmoralOne · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

The point is, y’all shouldn’t worry about valuing your characters life more than your irl life. It’s a game. Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die.

I do what I must to not die simply because I do not want to sit in a loading screen for 20 mins, or crash selecting a respawn point (Xbox NA)

kylewwefan · May 2020

I got a bunch of toons I can take in to get tier rewards. Maybe 2 of them have decent PvP builds on. Uhm, people that get into PvP have actual builds. They are much more enjoyable to play there I’d have to admit.

Once I hit 25k AP I’m good. Fastest way to get there is Zerg surfing. (It doesn’t matter how great you are, we’re just PvDooring)

And then you run across the gankers and tanks. Pffffff. I just swap toons. Have no interest in fighting you.

You know what. On my PvP toons, they don’t want to fight me either. I can’t kill them, they can’t kill me; it’s a moot point. Maybe it’s fun for a minute, but quickly becomes lame. And then the trash talking starts. The angry whisper. I got no time for that.

Just get your 25k and get out. Swap toons. Rinse and repeat.

You want some fast paced PvP action? Go to battlegrounds. Go Duel the PvE players around the undaunted area. Any PvP build is gonna wreck the typical Dungeon glass cannon.

There is a secret I should let you know. (It’s the Under 50) under 50 campaign, dueling, battlegrounds are so much better than CP, No Cp, whatever PvP style the game has. The leveled effect down here is far more enjoyable and engaging combat than max level.

I should delete all the other stuff and just leave this here. Under 50 is where it’s at.

StarOfElyon · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

I’m a solo player and more times than not, like 95% of the time, when I’m out front of an ad keep five siege immediately go up and 4 snipers are on walls. Is this necessary?

This is just one example. Another would be zerging solo players and then once you get even numbers you run back to a aless from sej.

The point is, y’all shouldn’t worry about valuing your characters life more than your irl life. It’s a game. Fight and play. No need to run 2000m to not die. I know it’s not fun running and hiding all the time.

I do PVP in BG and IC. Cyrodiil is pointless because of lag. IC can be fun if I have the motivation to be there but lately I simply don't feel like there's any reward for being there. I've almost completed the zone (still need to fish and find some skyshards). The daily quests are boring and not worth repeating. If I could buy transmute stones with telvar that would be motivating.

I agree that many people are too afraid to die and I see that manifest in people only wanting to gang up on solo players. Is it the telvar that they're afraid to lose? I rarely carry more than 2k so I don't care if you take that from me. Afraid to get tea bagged by an honor-less player? Oh well, you'll get used to it and eventually just pity them. Dying only makes you learn how not to die, and that's the point of games really. XD

ZOS_GregoryV · May 2020

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Fur_like_snow · May 2020

You don’t earn AP if you’re dead and most players stop into Cyrodiil long enough for that sweet sweet tier one award before going back to housing. If the game was actually playable maybe people would be more interested in a fight rather than just transmute stones.

AlAbaster · May 2020

Q_Q wrote: »

I’m a solo player and more times than not, like 95% of the time, when I’m out front of an ad keep five siege immediately go up and 4 snipers are on walls. Is this necessary?

You are a solo player. The majority of folks who go in for large scale siege warfare are not looking to duel, which should be pretty clear. As Sun Tsu would inform us, superior numbers is the wise approach.

And if I were playing my bowman, I would stand on the wall and snipe you. Because that's what he does.