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Wrath-spamming pet sorcs are a plague in BGs right now — change my mind.
Langeston
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Mag sorcs hiding behind their Matriarchs/Familiars/Engine Guardians while spamming Mages Wrath are an infestation.
I can't go into a BG anymore without there being at least four of these abominations, and frequently have to deal with six to eight of them. I was in a BG just a few days ago where it was just me and one other nightblade, with ten mag sorcs. So not only was the targeting completely destroyed by the 20+ pets flying/crawling/rolling around, even if I was able to burst down one of these sorcs through their overtuned burst heals the kill was stolen by one of the other Wrath-spamming sorcs. It's gotten to the point that they all just treat Mages Wrath as if it's just a buff they keep up, hoping someone else comes around and does the work of actually getting kills so they will be rewarded.
Not only does this completely ruin the scoring, (and the targeting) but they're also stealing ultimate from people that have actually earned it. This is especially frustrating as a magblade since I lose 19 ultimate for every kill stolen. As if it's not already difficult enough to play this class in high MMR BGs as it is.
Something needs to be done about Mages Wrath. Either alter the skill so the sorc casting it also has to be the one to proc it, or remove the 4 second window and treat it like any other execute. (If the window is removed, than a damage buff would probably be in order.)
I'm sure the ESO Sorc Brigade is going to descend upon this post like a swarm of locusts, and every other post will have "L2P" somewhere in it, but deep down inside you know that I speak the truth.
I can't go into a BG anymore without there being at least four of these abominations, and frequently have to deal with six to eight of them. I was in a BG just a few days ago where it was just me and one other nightblade, with ten mag sorcs. So not only was the targeting completely destroyed by the 20+ pets flying/crawling/rolling around, even if I was able to burst down one of these sorcs through their overtuned burst heals the kill was stolen by one of the other Wrath-spamming sorcs. It's gotten to the point that they all just treat Mages Wrath as if it's just a buff they keep up, hoping someone else comes around and does the work of actually getting kills so they will be rewarded.
Not only does this completely ruin the scoring, (and the targeting) but they're also stealing ultimate from people that have actually earned it. This is especially frustrating as a magblade since I lose 19 ultimate for every kill stolen. As if it's not already difficult enough to play this class in high MMR BGs as it is.
Something needs to be done about Mages Wrath. Either alter the skill so the sorc casting it also has to be the one to proc it, or remove the 4 second window and treat it like any other execute. (If the window is removed, than a damage buff would probably be in order.)
I'm sure the ESO Sorc Brigade is going to descend upon this post like a swarm of locusts, and every other post will have "L2P" somewhere in it, but deep down inside you know that I speak the truth.
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clocksstoppe✭✭✭✭✭
✭Could you please post the sorc skill that provides "overtuned burst heals"? Just curious.17 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvP should be eliminated entirely. To stop these insane balancing swings and constant complaints over what is OP.
Imagine no complaints about snipe, cloak, sorcs, healing, tank builds...
Change MY mind.26 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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No clue.clocksstoppe wrote: »Could you please post the sorc skill that provides "overtuned burst heals"? Just curious.
Adjust Wrath for PVP like they have with other skills in the past. Problem solved.PvP should be eliminated entirely. To stop these insane balancing swings and constant complaints over what is OP.
Imagine no complaints about snipe, cloak, sorcs, healing, tank builds...
Change MY mind.
I notice that neither of you dispute my premise. It's a start.3 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ten magsorcs with pets in a BG? That's gross.
Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--1 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭So you have no idea about Sorcerers healing or lack of?
And have no clue how little damage Wrath has unless you are near death?
[snip]
Be Safe
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on May 6, 2020 5:18PM13 -
Phreeki✭✭✭PvP should be eliminated entirely. To stop these insane balancing swings and constant complaints over what is OP.
Imagine no complaints about snipe, cloak, sorcs, healing, tank builds...
Change MY mind.
You make a statement like this but just as many abilities have been change due to trial guilds bypassing the game mechanics and just bursting down raid bosses.
Blaming pvp for all "the bad things" in this game is just your bias. I agree that the sorc execute is a bit much but so is the heavy armor unkillable builds you see in pvp.
You can not have true balance in a game with so many abilities and classes, one will always have the advantage over another.....that's just the way it is.8 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭Meh. I've seen cloaked snipe/poison arrow users and necros spamming the ricochet skull steal more kills than sorcs do. And maybe it's just the people I get matched with, but more often than not, sorcs Wrath people who aren't even low health, so it's wasted as an execute; there's so much movement and so many targeting issues, unless you Wrath someone you're directly engaged with, there's no point in trying to killsteal.PvP should be eliminated entirely. To stop these insane balancing swings and constant complaints over what is OP.
Imagine no complaints about snipe, cloak, sorcs, healing, tank builds...
Change MY mind.
PvP doesn't usually work anyway, and Cyrodiil is so laggy the terrain may as well be made of quicksand, so they might as well. 200 or so people will leave and everyone else can take it as a QoL improvement."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.4 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Um, click the link?Knightpanther wrote: »So you have no idea about Sorcerers healing or lack of?
And have no clue how little damage Wrath has unless you are near death?
[snip]
Be Safe
[edit] If anything you just said were remotely true, pet sorcs spamming Wrath wouldn't be so over-represented in BGs. [snip]
[edit 2] Oh, and of course I know how little damage Wrath does unless the target is near death. With a four second window [for someone else to burst for you] it is irrelevant to my point.
[edited for baiting]Edited by Langeston on May 6, 2020 5:49PM0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »Could you please post the sorc skill that provides "overtuned burst heals"? Just curious.
You must be new. Matriarch heals for more than breath of life these days.
Honestly just reduce the duration on fury/wrath to 2 seconds, it will still ffit into the curse frag spammable combo, but yu won't get free kills on ppl from across the map anymore.8 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP should be eliminated entirely. To stop these insane balancing swings and constant complaints over what is OP.
Imagine no complaints about snipe, cloak, sorcs, healing, tank builds...
Change MY mind.
You make a statement like this but just as many abilities have been change due to trial guilds bypassing the game mechanics and just bursting down raid bosses.
Blaming pvp for all "the bad things" in this game is just your bias. I agree that the sorc execute is a bit much but so is the heavy armor unkillable builds you see in pvp.
You can not have true balance in a game with so many abilities and classes, one will always have the advantage over another.....that's just the way it is.
And this is why in PvP there IS true balance, because of the diversity.
There isnt a single Class/Build/Setup i cannot kill or work out how to kill BUT there is a *** load of players who i struggle to kill, its not the class - there is nobody that has an advantage (especially us Sorcerers) - do the maths and its obvious.
As for Tank builds, don't get me started its the biggest red herring out there, sure you will find it hard to break those defenses but chances are they have sacrificed so much offense they will hit like a wet lettuce.
Be Safe4 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are quite a few factors that play into the prevalence of mag sorcs in BGs.
1) the mmr reset and subsequent disinterest in solo queue bgs has gutted the skilled population of bgs. This leads to
2) Without sufficient numbers of skilled players making fair games is all but impossible. Bgs have devolved into a race between which former high mmr player can farm the cp 100s quicker. Mag sorc is king at this
3) Without a way to so much as duo queue, you cant guarantee any sort of decent teammate. You cannot carry a team by yourself on a stam necro or dk, despite both classes being far superior to sorc. Sorc is much friendlier as a solo class
4) All of this leads to this, there is only 1 ranged class in eso that is currently viable. Bgs in their current state heavily favor ranged gameplay.
This is not a balance issue. This is a consequence of zos neglecting the pvp population and listening to the lowest common denominator.
2 solutions immediately stand out as a long time sorc main. First, buff wings on mag dks, second, buff the healing of nightblades. Both classes were traditional hard counters to mag sorcs.
The current state of sorc utility should be a baseline for other class toolkits.13 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You put an imperative in the title. But be both know you won't change your stance. You even made that clear in your OP's final paragraph. So really, that title's unnecessary.
*shrugs*7 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
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Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
Edited by iCaliban on May 6, 2020 4:33PM9 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow. So that plus the NB nerfs must have been quite a balance swing. Would have been interesting to have been around 2 years ago.
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@TammanyEdited by Langeston on May 6, 2020 4:49PM0 -
Noctus✭✭✭✭✭u should have put this post on pvp section u just invited alot unexperienced ppl to talk about things they dont understand. noone wants the class to be nerfed which they main so u will get here alot of biased opinions. in pvp section ppl will be more open to ideas of buffs and nerfs for the balance of the game.
most pve players -not all ofc- want their class to oneshot every obstacle so they can have their power fantasies fullfilled.1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
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Wow. So that plus the NB nerfs must have been quite a balance swing. Would have been interesting to have been around 2 years ago.
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
You know me langeston. You have seen me *** about NB in guild chat plenty I bet lol.
This is the reason for that. Prior to getting a truly great self heal in matriarch dying to a NB was at least half or more of my pvp deaths.
In a limited environment such as 4v4v4 sorc really does shine. The solution isnt to nerf sorcs. The class toolkit really isnt overtuned.
Nightblades and mag dks are simply in a very poor spot. Mag dk sustain wise and the fact that they have to choose between burst and being able to heal. Nb for a host of reasons. If stam dk could afford to run wings, I would wager you would never see another mag sorc in bgs again5 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
actual you can spam streak i can spam it 10+ times before running out of magicMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭It wouldn't bother me except I can't tell if mages wrath will proc on me or not, because my health bar is so out of synch with the server.
My death recaps are missing skills that I saw hit me as I die, and there's other skills in it that I never saw hit.
It's hard to synch up such fast combat in an mmo, though, so I'll live with it as long as skills fire.Edited by worrallj on May 6, 2020 4:51PM0 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭the bare bones of this is clear sorc's are the most popular class along side nb, they both take up or over 60% of the player base, make of anything out of that, if you have all sorc's spamming 1 skill it does become a problem, i call them 1 skill warriors, but they are pewpewer's from range, if not a dk just use silver leash and drag them to youMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0
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iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
actual you can spam streak i can spam it 10+ times before running out of magic
In cp sure. With no one around, building for sustain and having absolutely no other skill uses in between such as healing or doing damage.
I'm sure dedicated streak bots exist in zergs but that has nothing to do with this topic. This is a bg focused thread which is no cp.3 -
alainjbrennanb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
actual you can spam streak i can spam it 10+ times before running out of magic
In cp sure. With no one around, building for sustain and having absolutely no other skill uses in between such as healing or doing damage.
I'm sure dedicated streak bots exist in zergs but that has nothing to do with this topic. This is a bg focused thread which is no cp.
nope i do it in none cp when on herMain character dk - Vanikifar whitestrike0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I just love working for a kill on pretty much any class, but a magsorc across the map gets the KB, beacuse they put Fury on my opponent 5 minutes ago.
Absolute joke. Matriarch heal is ***, i dont even run annulment on my magsorc, and often dont even put on hardened.
Why? The second i get pressured/bursted its 1 click back to full hp, then press streak everyone around me stunned, now im behind los i can heal with dark exchange. Best part is i often dont even see how much dmg my matriarch soaks up for, and if for whatever reason it takes dmg i can just streak twice and it teleports to me full hp.2 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Even if they straight up delete Mage's Fury, I doubt people would stop complaining about the zoo, the matriach heal or streak.
Skill by skill would be the next target for the chopping block.2 -
Langeston✭✭✭✭✭
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I'm now beginning to understand why you classify me and my kind as "subhuman," lol. I wish ZOS hadn't been so heavy handed with the nerfs, it'd be nice if NBs instilled fear in at least one class.
Wow. So that plus the NB nerfs must have been quite a balance swing. Would have been interesting to have been around 2 years ago.
Prior to matriarch changes sorcs had no burst self heal. Nightblade had major defile on its cheap ult. Defile + 20% damage boost would tear through sorc shields and kept them from healing at all. On top of that, streak had a 50% scaling increase that prevented it from being spammed to take nb out of cloak.
@Tammany
You know me langeston. You have seen me *** about NB in guild chat plenty I bet lol.
This is the reason for that. Prior to getting a truly great self heal in matriarch dying to a NB was at least half or more of my pvp deaths.
In a limited environment such as 4v4v4 sorc really does shine. The solution isnt to nerf sorcs. The class toolkit really isnt overtuned.
Nightblades and mag dks are simply in a very poor spot. Mag dk sustain wise and the fact that they have to choose between burst and being able to heal. Nb for a host of reasons. If stam dk could afford to run wings, I would wager you would never see another mag sorc in bgs again
And I agree with the following from your previous post:
I do still think something needs to be done with Wrath though, even if it's just a change in how BGs are scored. Just yesterday I was in a mid-MMR BG on a team with 3 magsorcs and my teammates stole nearly 20 of my kills (give or take) because of that skill. The only 2 kills I got were from when they were all dead and I was on my own, lol. So not only did I have the lowest score when I should have been at or near the top, (not a huge deal, but annoying) I also lost out on about 380 ultimate — or about five and a half Soul Harvests. That's a tough pill to swallow.The current state of sorc utility should be a baseline for other class toolkits.Edited by Langeston on May 6, 2020 5:00PM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I really think they should allow sorcs to put small/moderate shields on allies, instead of having a huge burst heal on twilight.
That would be way more flavour for sorcs, then copy paste aoe breath of life pet bs.0
This discussion has been closed.