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Easy Fix for Cyrodiil. Get Rid of PvP Completely. (Support PvE Players)
Android_Archer
✭✭✭
There you go, problem solved. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of seeing all the whining from the smallest (but most vocal) minority in the game, about problems that arguably can be laid squarely at the feet of that minority and their incessant whining because, after this or that change was made to improve/benefit the majority of the game play (PvE), it changed the PvP play. And let's be honest, they are the minority. This game is 98% PvE, 2% PvP (and that's being generous I think) but, the minority PvP community appears to get all the attention.
It could be easily and rightly argued that all the problems we now have to deal with in the majority of the game (PvE), is due to tweaks and 'balance' attempts for the smallest, least played portion of the game. A portion of the game in fact, that wasn't even part of the original design. It was shoehorned in much later after release and since then, has caused nothing but problems for the rest of the game. ZOS, you need to get your priorities straight.
You know what you lose if you get rid of PvP, ZOS? You lose headaches. That's it. Let's be real. If the entirety of the dedicated PvP community just disappeared tomorrow, ZOS wouldn't even see a blip in their bottom line. But, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the majority player base (PvE) would notice a (significant) change in the game world. But, what do you gain by removing PvP altogether? Focus. A single game world to focus your engineering and development on. Clarity of direction. No more attempting to 'balance' two very different game types, only to end up creating a mediocre at best, unplayable at worst (where we nearly are now) experience for both.
So there you have it. Get rid of PvP. Turn Cyrodiil into a PvE area, which should be easy enough to do, as it's already populated with a number of quests anyway. Over time, you work on removing all the unique coding that supports PvP and you'll end up with a smaller code base to deal with. And, having a singular focus for all that coding will make planning, creating, testing and, troubleshooting newly implemented code, all that much easier.
But, if you insist on keeping PvP, I strongly suggest you make PvP less of a focus. In fact, don't make it a focus at all. Again, PvP is the smallest part of the games entirety and, the smallest dedicated player base. Focus your efforts on the 98% of the game (that's PvE). By doing that and resolving the problems in that area, you'll likely find any issues affecting that remaining 2%, resolve themselves.
It could be easily and rightly argued that all the problems we now have to deal with in the majority of the game (PvE), is due to tweaks and 'balance' attempts for the smallest, least played portion of the game. A portion of the game in fact, that wasn't even part of the original design. It was shoehorned in much later after release and since then, has caused nothing but problems for the rest of the game. ZOS, you need to get your priorities straight.
You know what you lose if you get rid of PvP, ZOS? You lose headaches. That's it. Let's be real. If the entirety of the dedicated PvP community just disappeared tomorrow, ZOS wouldn't even see a blip in their bottom line. But, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the majority player base (PvE) would notice a (significant) change in the game world. But, what do you gain by removing PvP altogether? Focus. A single game world to focus your engineering and development on. Clarity of direction. No more attempting to 'balance' two very different game types, only to end up creating a mediocre at best, unplayable at worst (where we nearly are now) experience for both.
So there you have it. Get rid of PvP. Turn Cyrodiil into a PvE area, which should be easy enough to do, as it's already populated with a number of quests anyway. Over time, you work on removing all the unique coding that supports PvP and you'll end up with a smaller code base to deal with. And, having a singular focus for all that coding will make planning, creating, testing and, troubleshooting newly implemented code, all that much easier.
But, if you insist on keeping PvP, I strongly suggest you make PvP less of a focus. In fact, don't make it a focus at all. Again, PvP is the smallest part of the games entirety and, the smallest dedicated player base. Focus your efforts on the 98% of the game (that's PvE). By doing that and resolving the problems in that area, you'll likely find any issues affecting that remaining 2%, resolve themselves.
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mustangmorgan31✭✭✭✭What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy14 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh boy...
If you think bad performance only effects pvp and cyrodiil, then I think you and I are playing a very different game.
Come do some trials on PC EU during primetime.
The term instance fishing is used for a reason.
Skill delays, lag, bugs also effect 4 man content, bgs dungeons you name it.8 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Oh boy...
If you think bad performance only effects pvp and cyrodiil, then I think you and I are playing a very different game.
Come do some trials on PC EU during primetime.
The term instance fishing is used for a reason.
Skill delays, lag, bugs also effect 4 man content, bgs dungeons you name it.
But are those people using the same exploits as PvP? E.g., Block cancellation?
For example, a lot of the fixes and mandatory changes were in part due to block cancellation. They wanted to fix health desync by moving the processing of block to server side. And people noted that that caused more and other problems.
Or are server stressing issues in Cyrodiil leaking over because of overall server load? Are your primetime trials glitched because it's also PvP primetime?
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xxthir13enxx✭✭✭✭✭
✭1. Cyrodiil is center of map
2. There are 3 Alliances
3. Entire PvE storyline based around idea of 3 banner war...
Yup...PvP was Totally an afterthought...
Ya I won’t even bother with the rest...14 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭Oh boy...
If you think bad performance only effects pvp and cyrodiil, then I think you and I are playing a very different game.
Come do some trials on PC EU during primetime.
The term instance fishing is used for a reason.
Skill delays, lag, bugs also effect 4 man content, bgs dungeons you name it.
Oh no. I don't think that at all. I know full well how bad overall game performance is right now and how it's been degrading for years. I've been in game since release. I've been here through all the growing pains. And, it's never been worse than it is right now.
I'm not a young buck and the memory might not be what it once was but, I'll lay odds that it still serves me well enough that I'd be right in saying the great majority of problems really began after PvP was introduced, and the nigh unending attempts to 'balance' these two very different types of game play is perhaps the root cause of most (if not all) of our current problems.0 -
justaquickword✭✭✭✭I thought so....
Modding on this forum seems rather "selective"...
The title of this thread cannot be classed as anything else but baiting.5 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭justaquickword wrote: »I thought so....
Modding on this forum seems rather "selective"...
The title of this thread cannot be classed as anything else but baiting.
QFT if this was a PvPer bashing PVE it would have been locked within 30 seconds and the culprit sent straight to The Wailing Prison, do not pass Coldharbour, do not collect 200 crowns.
TBH the OP is so short sighted here, the amount of population that does even a small part of PvP is bigger than you think.
Be Safe12 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭mustangmorgan31 wrote: »What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy
When you play through a game to its end, do you harass the creators to add something else to it? Something it was never designed with in the first place? No, you move on to another game. If PvP is your thing, that's fine. There are lots of games out there that focus wholly on PvP and play very well for it. If this game (re)focused on being the best PvE game that it could be, I posit it wouldn't find itself the horridly bastardized, hot mess of an MMO it is now.2 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Easy Fix for the Forums. Get Rid of baiting Completely
(Support Forum Players) Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince6 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »mustangmorgan31 wrote: »What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy
When you play through a game to its end, do you harass the creators to add something else to it? Something it was never designed with in the first place? No, you move on to another game. If PvP is your thing, that's fine. There are lots of games out there that focus wholly on PvP and play very well for it. If this game (re)focused on being the best PvE game that it could be, I posit it wouldn't find itself the horridly bastardized, hot mess of an MMO it is now.
The game was actually designed with PVP being its main endgame at launch.
Trials weren't added until Craglorn.18 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭xxthir13enxx wrote: »1. Cyrodiil is center of map
2. There are 3 Alliances
3. Entire PvE storyline based around idea of 3 banner war...
Yup...PvP was Totally an afterthought...
Ya I won’t even bother with the rest...
None of that requires PvP game play. That area could simply remain a segmented (hostile to other alliance players) area where questing and game play is an unending struggle. Ya, I won't even bother with the rest...1 -
red_emu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2% of players are Pvp? Have you been to Cyrodill? Ever? At prime time there is probably more people sieging one keep than all the players outside of Cyro put together.
The truth is. Some of us play this game for Cyrodill only. Some for both PvE and PvP.
There is no other game that has done mass PvP like this and it's what keeps us playing.
I honestly think the split is more like 50/25/25 (PvE, PvP, PvP+PvE)PC - EU:
Falathren Noctis - AD MagNecro
Falathren - AD StamSorc
Falathren Eryndaer - AD StamDen
Falathren Irimion - AD MagPlar
Talagan Falathren - AD StamDK
Falathren Infernis - AD MagDK
Your-Ex - AD MagBlade6 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭Android_Archer wrote: »xxthir13enxx wrote: »1. Cyrodiil is center of map
2. There are 3 Alliances
3. Entire PvE storyline based around idea of 3 banner war...
Yup...PvP was Totally an afterthought...
Ya I won’t even bother with the rest...
None of that requires PvP game play. That area could simply remain a segmented (hostile to other alliance players) area where questing and game play is an unending struggle. Ya, I won't even bother with the rest...
Mate Questing is already an unending struggle in there
And your missing the point a three banners war without an actual war? come on lol
Be Safe3 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »xxthir13enxx wrote: »1. Cyrodiil is center of map
2. There are 3 Alliances
3. Entire PvE storyline based around idea of 3 banner war...
Yup...PvP was Totally an afterthought...
Ya I won’t even bother with the rest...
None of that requires PvP game play. That area could simply remain a segmented (hostile to other alliance players) area where questing and game play is an unending struggle. Ya, I won't even bother with the rest...
Your attempt at rationalization is refreshing.
Hoping they don’t lock the thread so I can keep my Sunday entertainment going ...2 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭Knightpanther wrote: »justaquickword wrote: »I thought so....
Modding on this forum seems rather "selective"...
The title of this thread cannot be classed as anything else but baiting.
QFT if this was a PvPer bashing PVE it would have been locked within 30 seconds and the culprit sent straight to The Wailing Prison, do not pass Coldharbour, do not collect 200 crowns.
TBH the OP is so short sighted here, the amount of population that does even a small part of PvP is bigger than you think.
Be Safe
Oh, I have no delusions that many PvE players dip into Cyrodiil for varied reasons. But, I'd bet dollars to donuts the vast majority do so only because they must, in order to unlock PvP specific skills for use in PvE, as some of those skill do prove very useful in PvE play. Of course, those skill lines could be kept intact and their unlocking/advancing remain exclusive to participating in a modified PvE Cyrodiil experience. One perhaps where the taking of keeps, resources, even scrolls is still an objective. The big difference being that you're doing this against significantly stronger (think world, even trial boss and minion type) PvE opponents.
Control of these keeps and resources would automatically return to control of the appropriate faction NPCs after a period of time with no opposing factions presence to maintain it. This would have the same effect you have now, with the map constantly reverting to a 'default' state, only to have to be fought and won again and again to complete certain objectives.0 -
daemonor✭✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »mustangmorgan31 wrote: »What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy
When you play through a game to its end, do you harass the creators to add something else to it? Something it was never designed with in the first place? No, you move on to another game. If PvP is your thing, that's fine. There are lots of games out there that focus wholly on PvP and play very well for it. If this game (re)focused on being the best PvE game that it could be, I posit it wouldn't find itself the horridly bastardized, hot mess of an MMO it is now.
Can you name one besides guild wars? All the other alleged pvp mmos have this wierd oriental, anime, manga or scifi futuristic whatever you wanna call it style that just makes it very unappealing to me. The only mmos that hit the mark for me during ~12 years of playing were world of warcraft, warhammer 40k and elder scrolls online and I would definitely move on to something that feels along those lines and has decent performance, because the past 2 months were nothnig but frustration.
I'm pretty sure most of the playerbase that was looking for a pvp game already moved on. What all of these 3mmos have in common is franchise. I'm not an rts or turn based strategy fan fan but i played both warcraft 2 and 3, warhammer 40k 1&2. I'm not a huge roleplaying fan either, but I was stuck in morrowind , oblivion and skyrim for at least half a year each. What all these games have in common is the franchise and story behind them. I play those games for them being warcraft,warhammer or elder scrolls, what type of game it is besides the point. Some of the alleged pvp mmos like aion, black desert online or guild wars just don't have all that magic behind them. And if it so happens that there's a pvp option in those games it should work like it's supposed to. Fighting AI just gets boring eventually no matter what and if you're craving for the same game you need something to spice things up - fighting other players. I'm not craving fighting other players in any game, I'm craving elder scrolls online in which i can fight other players.Edited by daemonor on May 3, 2020 8:51PM0 -
Dojohoda✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Please sir, if you have time, see this video that was published 2012 which is about this beautiful game. PVP is described starting at time stamp 7:21.Android_Archer wrote: »Oh boy...
If you think bad performance only effects pvp and cyrodiil, then I think you and I are playing a very different game.
Come do some trials on PC EU during primetime.
The term instance fishing is used for a reason.
Skill delays, lag, bugs also effect 4 man content, bgs dungeons you name it.
Oh no. I don't think that at all. I know full well how bad overall game performance is right now and how it's been degrading for years. I've been in game since release. I've been here through all the growing pains. And, it's never been worse than it is right now.
I'm not a young buck and the memory might not be what it once was but, I'll lay odds that it still serves me well enough that I'd be right in saying the great majority of problems really began after PvP was introduced, and the nigh unending attempts to 'balance' these two very different types of game play is perhaps the root cause of most (if not all) of our current problems.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEipFtHw7o Fan of playing magblade since 2015. (PC NA)
Might be joking in comments.
-->(((Cyrodiil)))<--4 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭2% of players are Pvp? Have you been to Cyrodill? Ever? At prime time there is probably more people sieging one keep than all the players outside of Cyro put together.
The truth is. Some of us play this game for Cyrodill only. Some for both PvE and PvP.
There is no other game that has done mass PvP like this and it's what keeps us playing.
I honestly think the split is more like 50/25/25 (PvE, PvP, PvP+PvE)
Yes, I've been in PvP many times in fact. Do I make a point of going there, only when I must. Have I been in their during 'prime time', absolutely. And even then, I would argue the number of PvP to PvE active players, would at best be at 25/75 split. I think that likely because, there's a hard cap for the number of participants in a given campaign (single instance), while there is no cap (multi-instanced) for PvE except operational load.0 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »2% of players are Pvp? Have you been to Cyrodill? Ever? At prime time there is probably more people sieging one keep than all the players outside of Cyro put together.
The truth is. Some of us play this game for Cyrodill only. Some for both PvE and PvP.
There is no other game that has done mass PvP like this and it's what keeps us playing.
I honestly think the split is more like 50/25/25 (PvE, PvP, PvP+PvE)
Yes, I've been in PvP many times in fact. Do I make a point of going there, only when I must. Have I been in their during 'prime time', absolutely. And even then, I would argue the number of PvP to PvE active players, would at best be at 25/75 split. I think that likely because, there's a hard cap for the number of participants in a given campaign (single instance), while there is no cap (multi-instanced) for PvE except operational load.
What you suggest here is equivalent to someone suggesting to get rid of Group Dungeons...
It doesn't seem logical or constructive...Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince2 -
thatESOdude✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »There you go, problem solved. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of seeing all the whining from the smallest (but most vocal) minority in the game, about problems that arguably can be laid squarely at the feet of that minority and their incessant whining because, after this or that change was made to improve/benefit the majority of the game play (PvE), it changed the PvP play. And let's be honest, they are the minority. This game is 98% PvE, 2% PvP (and that's being generous I think) but, the minority PvP community appears to get all the attention.
It could be easily and rightly argued that all the problems we now have to deal with in the majority of the game (PvE), is due to tweaks and 'balance' attempts for the smallest, least played portion of the game. A portion of the game in fact, that wasn't even part of the original design. It was shoehorned in much later after release and since then, has caused nothing but problems for the rest of the game. ZOS, you need to get your priorities straight.
You know what you lose if you get rid of PvP, ZOS? You lose headaches. That's it. Let's be real. If the entirety of the dedicated PvP community just disappeared tomorrow, ZOS wouldn't even see a blip in their bottom line. But, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the majority player base (PvE) would notice a (significant) change in the game world. But, what do you gain by removing PvP altogether? Focus. A single game world to focus your engineering and development on. Clarity of direction. No more attempting to 'balance' two very different game types, only to end up creating a mediocre at best, unplayable at worst (where we nearly are now) experience for both.
So there you have it. Get rid of PvP. Turn Cyrodiil into a PvE area, which should be easy enough to do, as it's already populated with a number of quests anyway. Over time, you work on removing all the unique coding that supports PvP and you'll end up with a smaller code base to deal with. And, having a singular focus for all that coding will make planning, creating, testing and, troubleshooting newly implemented code, all that much easier.
But, if you insist on keeping PvP, I strongly suggest you make PvP less of a focus. In fact, don't make it a focus at all. Again, PvP is the smallest part of the games entirety and, the smallest dedicated player base. Focus your efforts on the 98% of the game (that's PvE). By doing that and resolving the problems in that area, you'll likely find any issues affecting that remaining 2%, resolve themselves.
All you do is kill NPCs, noone cares!0 -
TineaCruris✭✭✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »mustangmorgan31 wrote: »What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy
When you play through a game to its end, do you harass the creators to add something else to it? Something it was never designed with in the first place? No, you move on to another game. If PvP is your thing, that's fine. There are lots of games out there that focus wholly on PvP and play very well for it. If this game (re)focused on being the best PvE game that it could be, I posit it wouldn't find itself the horridly bastardized, hot mess of an MMO it is now.
ESO is now and always has been advertised as a PvP MMO with PvE content. You have it backwards.4 -
justaquickword✭✭✭✭TineaCruris wrote: »Android_Archer wrote: »mustangmorgan31 wrote: »What? lol Some people actually may want a challenge and want to PVP. 90% of PVE is faceroll easy
When you play through a game to its end, do you harass the creators to add something else to it? Something it was never designed with in the first place? No, you move on to another game. If PvP is your thing, that's fine. There are lots of games out there that focus wholly on PvP and play very well for it. If this game (re)focused on being the best PvE game that it could be, I posit it wouldn't find itself the horridly bastardized, hot mess of an MMO it is now.
ESO is now and always has been advertised as a PvP MMO with PvE content. You have it backwards.
It was PvP that kept this game alive early doors when your precious PvE was an unmitigated car crash.
Imperial City is still hands down the best designed zone on the entire map.
It's about time it got shown some respect by the developers and some of the dummy humping number crunchers on this forum.3 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Android_Archer wrote: »2% of players are Pvp? Have you been to Cyrodill? Ever? At prime time there is probably more people sieging one keep than all the players outside of Cyro put together.
The truth is. Some of us play this game for Cyrodill only. Some for both PvE and PvP.
There is no other game that has done mass PvP like this and it's what keeps us playing.
I honestly think the split is more like 50/25/25 (PvE, PvP, PvP+PvE)
Yes, I've been in PvP many times in fact. Do I make a point of going there, only when I must. Have I been in their during 'prime time', absolutely. And even then, I would argue the number of PvP to PvE active players, would at best be at 25/75 split. I think that likely because, there's a hard cap for the number of participants in a given campaign (single instance), while there is no cap (multi-instanced) for PvE except operational load.
So you went from 2% PVP-ers in original post to 25% within 1 hour..?
It removes any credibility from original post4 -
justaquickword✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »Android_Archer wrote: »2% of players are Pvp? Have you been to Cyrodill? Ever? At prime time there is probably more people sieging one keep than all the players outside of Cyro put together.
The truth is. Some of us play this game for Cyrodill only. Some for both PvE and PvP.
There is no other game that has done mass PvP like this and it's what keeps us playing.
I honestly think the split is more like 50/25/25 (PvE, PvP, PvP+PvE)
Yes, I've been in PvP many times in fact. Do I make a point of going there, only when I must. Have I been in their during 'prime time', absolutely. And even then, I would argue the number of PvP to PvE active players, would at best be at 25/75 split. I think that likely because, there's a hard cap for the number of participants in a given campaign (single instance), while there is no cap (multi-instanced) for PvE except operational load.
So you went from 2% PVP-ers in original post to 25% within 1 hour..?
It removes any credibility from original post
That would imply it had any credibility in the first place...4 -
Android_Archer✭✭✭
Please sir, if you have time, see this video that was published 2012 which is about this beautiful game. PVP is described starting at time stamp 7:21.Android_Archer wrote: »Oh boy...
If you think bad performance only effects pvp and cyrodiil, then I think you and I are playing a very different game.
Come do some trials on PC EU during primetime.
The term instance fishing is used for a reason.
Skill delays, lag, bugs also effect 4 man content, bgs dungeons you name it.
Oh no. I don't think that at all. I know full well how bad overall game performance is right now and how it's been degrading for years. I've been in game since release. I've been here through all the growing pains. And, it's never been worse than it is right now.
I'm not a young buck and the memory might not be what it once was but, I'll lay odds that it still serves me well enough that I'd be right in saying the great majority of problems really began after PvP was introduced, and the nigh unending attempts to 'balance' these two very different types of game play is perhaps the root cause of most (if not all) of our current problems.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEipFtHw7o
A great video and thank you for the memory refresher. So, yes. PvP was originally a concept. But, I know for sure, it was not in game at launch. As I think back on it more, I believe that (launch w/o PvP) was quite the brewhaha at the time. This video however, and the lack of PvP at launch, only supports my assertion that PvP was shoehorned in later and again, it was after that point I argue, that the quality of game play began its decline into the current state of affairs we're dealing with now.
The fastest, easiest way I see to correct course from where we are now, is to simply remove what does not work well. Then focus on cleaning up what issues (few I believe) remain and carry on smartly. Perhaps, after a fashion, the more problematic aspects of game play could be re-introduced. Better yet, if their appears to be enough interest in the community for that particular slice of game play mechanic, turn it into it's own game entirely. This allows each to remain its own focus, without the contamination of the other.1
https://youtu.be/IKudILvqniU
This discussion has been closed.