DOUBLE STANDARD. Burning light vs implosion! Class passive damage. HOW DID YOU REALLY DIE.

phoenixkungfu · May 2020

Balance, some see it as a opinion. I see it as guide lines. Passive damage is ultimately free damage based on r &g. Some may forget but once upon a time sorcerer has the passive implosion.

Implosion was

Rank II - Storm Calling Rank 36

Whenever you deal Shock Damage you have a 6% chance to instantly disintegrate enemies under 15% Health, dealing 4372 Shock Damage.

Whenever you deal Physical Damage you have a 6% chance to instantly pulverize enemies under 15% Health, dealing 4372 Physical Damage.

Implosion was unique because it end fight quickly. And if gave sorcerer identity as a lightning/physical dot builds. Of course IT GOT NERFED. The reason being it free damage.

So this is a standard, passive damage being to high is bad.

WELL TEMPLAR PASSIVE DAMAGE IS 0 DIFFERENCE AND 85% WORST.

with yet again more templar buff. power of the light hitting for critical MAKE EVERY point of damage a templar get during POWER OF THE LIGHT ON YOU, COUNT. On average jabs is processing damage for burning light. 2 times for every 1 jabs(4 hits cost of 1 jabs also broken)...THIS IS INSANITY BROKEN. the math of burning light is 2 proc is equal to over 70% of damage of 1 jabs. 1 jabs as in the cost of jabs. Jabs hit 4 times...let's go over this passive effect

Rank II - Aedric Spear Rank 36

When you deal damage with an Aedric Spear ability, you have a 25% chance to deal an additional 477 Physical Damage or 477 Magic Damage, whichever is higher. This effect can occur once every 0.5 seconds.

So a high % combo to land that is power of the light, topel charge, jabs equal death....WHY? Because if burning light hits 2times in most cases you die.. add a ultimate and your differently died.

Buring light is why to much free damage ESPECIALLY BASED on pass nerfs. Of sorcerer class identity passive implosion.

I DEMAND, fair balance across the board. Burning light shouldn't exist if IMPLOSION shouldn't exist. IT A UNBALANCE DOUBLE STANDARD.

Please bring back implosion or remove buring light.

The_Old_Goat · May 2020

Hugs not nerfs!

phoenixkungfu · May 2020

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Hugs not nerfs!

On average when you go this templar just nuke me.. what happened. It's the 2 proc of burning light. That push POWER OF THE LIGHT to kill you... its R and g just like IMPLOSION WAS. Only different is you honestly HAD TO BUILD FOR IMPLOSION...I'm talking max lightning damage over time moves. 2 pets...it was the secret to double pets...

Burning light is pretty much guarantee with 1 JABS. it's the TRUE ULTIMATE CHESSE free damage.

I DEMAND IMPLOSION BACK OR BURING LIGHT REMOVE.

A STANDARD OF EQUAL BALANCE ACROSS THE BROAD.

heaven13 · May 2020

So the 'free' damage sorcs have initially as part of their amplitude passive doesnt count, right? Must be because it's not a proc chance but a guaranteed increase.

phoenixkungfu · May 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

So the 'free' damage sorcs have initially as part of their amplitude passive doesnt count, right? Must be because it's not a proc chance but a guaranteed increase.

Nope I know the derail tactic.. this post is about BURNING LIGHT. Keep all comments in topic

I DEMAND IMPLOSION BACK OR BURING LIGHT REMOVE.

A STANDARD OF EQUAL BALANCE ACROSS THE BROAD.

grannas211 · May 2020

You’re supposed to throw the crystal frags not smoke them.

Pauls · May 2020

Another nerf sorc thread

Alienoutlaw · May 2020

here we go again, thought it was to quiet

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · May 2020

Malmai · May 2020

Also STREAK needs to be removed and SHIELDS and sorc CHEAP ulti...etc...

Alucardo · May 2020

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

Hugs not nerfs!

I'm trying my hardest to not agree with the OP because I don't like nerfs, but I'd be lying if I said burning light didn't trigger me.

Luckylancer · May 2020

Breath of life was strong back then. Now it is nerfed. Nerf matriarc heal. Why a sorcerer class heal more than divine class? Nerf it already.

Cheese beam was strong and undodgeable and it got nerfed. I want sorc execute to be nerfed. Sorcs can PASSIVE KILL STEAL with their execute. You click it, someone else hits the target and you get the kill.

I was using light armor shields in pvp and they got nerfed. Nerf sorc shield too. All of them use shiled, if everyone uses it it means it is OP.

Firstmep · May 2020

Sure remove burning light, I'll take an instant teleport that does high damage and also is an unblockable/undodgeable stun.
Or the myraid of free meatshield pets, one of which heals for more than the games original healing class' main burst heal(and 2 targets).
Balance doesn't mean same.
Burning light is there specifically to synergise with aedric spear.
I'll be honest I'm getting tired of all these new players that don't know how to counter jabs coming to these forums crying.

Mortiis13 · May 2020

Played a magplar because I wanted to see if it's fit my playstyle (I don't like the visual effects and class fantasy) and it's not as op as it sounds. But I really don't like it on a mechanic side.

Jabs(+ passive) is fine in pve. It carrys a lot of low apm or simply bad players, we shouldn't nerf it in any way.

In pvp it's easy to avoid. With a short sidestep u will miss 2 of 4 hits and the passiv is drastically reduced to proc with zero double proc chance.
Even on a magblade I have no trouble to sidestep, cloak, get behind templar, cause he will try to jab u out of stealth in the direction u sidesteped(good ones still get me sometimes ^^)
(btw u must proc it with the first hit to get a second proc with the last one cause CD)

So this is now a nerf sorc thread.

mairwen85 · May 2020

Implosion was replaced with: Amplitude
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/amplitude

Amplitude is non-proc chance and guaranteed damage to any enemy by 1% for every 10% health they have.
100% = 10% damage buff, 90% = 9%, 80% = 8%, 70% = 7%, and so on. How much passive/free damage do you think this results in over the course of a single target fight?

Implosion was only applicable to targets with <15% health (at 6% chance), so not applicable for 85% of the time. It was weak and often times enemies were dead before it even kicked in (enemy has 20k health, 15% = 3k, then 6% chance to proc insta-death when 1 skill will already insta-kill), thus ZOS replaced it with the inverse passive 'Amplitude'. The loss of implosion and subsequent adding of Amplitude, was a buff not a nerf.

Look, by all means have an opinion, but at least try to inform yourself first before making wild claims. I know you're going to say this is a derailment, like you do regards any post that disagrees with you, but you are making the comparison here with the statement that burning light should be removed because implosion was removed, and if burning light stays then implosion should be given back... reverting amplitude to implosion is a nerf,

-- the entire basis of your attack on templar is that you are demanding a nerf for sorcs to justify it; hopefully you can see how ridiculous that stance is. Alternatively, why not demand instead that templar get a version of amplitude, and effectively buff templar.

Your argument is moot, and only results in the exact opposite of what you want because you don't understand it yourself.

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

The math is facts

Apart from when the person doing the maths can't count.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

*sigh* what class has not killed you? A sorc has had to, probably every class....

So maybe you might want help with your build. Just a thought to help you out.

In PvP peeps characters die no matter how good you are.

phoenixkungfu · May 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

Implosion was replaced with: Amplitude
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/amplitude

Amplitude is non-proc chance and guaranteed damage to any enemy by 1% for every 10% health they have.
100% = 10% damage buff, 90% = 9%, 80% = 8%, 70% = 7%, and so on. How much passive/free damage do you think this results in over the course of a single target fight?

Implosion was only applicable to targets with <15% health (at 6% chance), so not applicable for 85% of the time. It was weak and often times enemies were dead before it even kicked in, thus ZOS replaced it with the inverse passive 'Amplitude'. The loss of implosion and subsequent adding of Amplitude, was a buff not a nerf.

Look, by all means have an opinion, but at least try to inform yourself first before making wild claims. I know you're going to say this is a derailment, like you do regards any post that disagrees with you, but you are making the comparison here with the statement that burning light should be removed because implosion was removed, and if burning light stays then implosion should be given back... reverting amplitude to implosion is a nerf, -- the entire basis of your attack on templar is that you are demanding a nerf for sorcs to justify it; hopefully you can see how ridiculous that stance is. Alternatively, why not demand instead that templar get a version of amplitude, and effectively buff templar.

Your argument is moot, and only results in the exact opposite of what you want because you don't understand it yourself.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

What this does show is value of more nerfs to sorcerer abilities..

D SWING (SPAMABLE SMH)
Slam enemy with an upward swing, dealing 1143 Physical Damage, setting them off balance for 7 seconds.

Also sets the enemy off balance

Vs
crystal frags
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing 1112 Magic Damage. Casting any other Magicka Ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, deal 33% more damage, and cost 50% less Magicka.

D swing vs crystal fragments both are at 1112 ish but as the sorcerer is nerf with AMPLITUDE. YOU LOSE UP TO 10% DAMAGE.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. DUMMY IT A NERF What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF D SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another NERF overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

High_Solar · May 2020

Templar is easy mode, i have one of each class(non dlc) at max and let me tell you, spamming nothing but jabs and power of the light gives you easy kills. Compared to the other classes, this class is way too easy.

mairwen85 · May 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Implosion was replaced with: Amplitude
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/amplitude

Amplitude is non-proc chance and guaranteed damage to any enemy by 1% for every 10% health they have.
100% = 10% damage buff, 90% = 9%, 80% = 8%, 70% = 7%, and so on. How much passive/free damage do you think this results in over the course of a single target fight?

Implosion was only applicable to targets with <15% health (at 6% chance), so not applicable for 85% of the time. It was weak and often times enemies were dead before it even kicked in, thus ZOS replaced it with the inverse passive 'Amplitude'. The loss of implosion and subsequent adding of Amplitude, was a buff not a nerf.

Look, by all means have an opinion, but at least try to inform yourself first before making wild claims. I know you're going to say this is a derailment, like you do regards any post that disagrees with you, but you are making the comparison here with the statement that burning light should be removed because implosion was removed, and if burning light stays then implosion should be given back... reverting amplitude to implosion is a nerf, -- the entire basis of your attack on templar is that you are demanding a nerf for sorcs to justify it; hopefully you can see how ridiculous that stance is. Alternatively, why not demand instead that templar get a version of amplitude, and effectively buff templar.

Your argument is moot, and only results in the exact opposite of what you want because you don't understand it yourself.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. Aka rotation bunny jumping petless sorcerer. What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF DE SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another nerd overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

Why the caps? Drop the caps and, please, give me a reasoned and well thought out breakdown to why amplitude is a nerf? Your counter point here has no detail or factual information to it. There have been massive nerfs to sorc over the years, trust me. Sorc currently is but a shell of its former self, so please explain why, specifically, amplitude is the worst.

phoenixkungfu · May 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Implosion was replaced with: Amplitude
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/amplitude

Amplitude is non-proc chance and guaranteed damage to any enemy by 1% for every 10% health they have.
100% = 10% damage buff, 90% = 9%, 80% = 8%, 70% = 7%, and so on. How much passive/free damage do you think this results in over the course of a single target fight?

Implosion was only applicable to targets with <15% health (at 6% chance), so not applicable for 85% of the time. It was weak and often times enemies were dead before it even kicked in, thus ZOS replaced it with the inverse passive 'Amplitude'. The loss of implosion and subsequent adding of Amplitude, was a buff not a nerf.

Look, by all means have an opinion, but at least try to inform yourself first before making wild claims. I know you're going to say this is a derailment, like you do regards any post that disagrees with you, but you are making the comparison here with the statement that burning light should be removed because implosion was removed, and if burning light stays then implosion should be given back... reverting amplitude to implosion is a nerf, -- the entire basis of your attack on templar is that you are demanding a nerf for sorcs to justify it; hopefully you can see how ridiculous that stance is. Alternatively, why not demand instead that templar get a version of amplitude, and effectively buff templar.

Your argument is moot, and only results in the exact opposite of what you want because you don't understand it yourself.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. (KINDA LIKE SOCAL SOCIETY, UNEMPLOYMENT OR CAR INSURANCE) But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. Aka rotation bunny jumping petless sorcerer. What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF DE SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another nerd overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

Why the caps? Drop the caps and, please, give me a reasoned and well thought out breakdown to why amplitude is a nerf? Your counter point here has no detail or factual information to it. There have been massive nerfs to sorc over the years, trust me. Sorc currently is but a shell of its former self, so please explain why, specifically, amplitude is the worst.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

What this does show is value of more nerfs to sorcerer abilities..

D SWING (SPAMABLE SMH)
Slam enemy with an upward swing, dealing 1143 Physical Damage, setting them off balance for 7 seconds.

Also sets the enemy off balance

Vs
crystal frags
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing 1112 Magic Damage. Casting any other Magicka Ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, deal 33% more damage, and cost 50% less Magicka.

D swing vs crystal fragments both are at 1112 ish but as the sorcerer is nerf with AMPLITUDE. YOU LOSE UP TO 10% DAMAGE.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. DUMMY IT A NERF What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF D SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another NERF overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

mairwen85 · May 2020

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

phoenixkungfu wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

Implosion was replaced with: Amplitude
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/amplitude

Amplitude is non-proc chance and guaranteed damage to any enemy by 1% for every 10% health they have.
100% = 10% damage buff, 90% = 9%, 80% = 8%, 70% = 7%, and so on. How much passive/free damage do you think this results in over the course of a single target fight?

Implosion was only applicable to targets with <15% health (at 6% chance), so not applicable for 85% of the time. It was weak and often times enemies were dead before it even kicked in, thus ZOS replaced it with the inverse passive 'Amplitude'. The loss of implosion and subsequent adding of Amplitude, was a buff not a nerf.

Look, by all means have an opinion, but at least try to inform yourself first before making wild claims. I know you're going to say this is a derailment, like you do regards any post that disagrees with you, but you are making the comparison here with the statement that burning light should be removed because implosion was removed, and if burning light stays then implosion should be given back... reverting amplitude to implosion is a nerf, -- the entire basis of your attack on templar is that you are demanding a nerf for sorcs to justify it; hopefully you can see how ridiculous that stance is. Alternatively, why not demand instead that templar get a version of amplitude, and effectively buff templar.

Your argument is moot, and only results in the exact opposite of what you want because you don't understand it yourself.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. Aka rotation bunny jumping petless sorcerer. What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF DE SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another nerd overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

Why the caps? Drop the caps and, please, give me a reasoned and well thought out breakdown to why amplitude is a nerf? Your counter point here has no detail or factual information to it. There have been massive nerfs to sorc over the years, trust me. Sorc currently is but a shell of its former self, so please explain why, specifically, amplitude is the worst.

Amplitude

Increases your damage done against enemies by 1% for every 10% current Health they have

What this does show is value of more nerfs to sorcerer abilities..

D SWING (SPAMABLE SMH)
Slam enemy with an upward swing, dealing 1143 Physical Damage, setting them off balance for 7 seconds.

Also sets the enemy off balance

Vs
crystal frags
Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing 1112 Magic Damage. Casting any other Magicka Ability has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, deal 33% more damage, and cost 50% less Magicka.

D swing vs crystal fragments both are at 1112 ish but as the sorcerer is nerf with AMPLITUDE. YOU LOSE UP TO 10% DAMAGE.

THIS IS THE BIGGEST NERF IN SORCERER HISTORY. It was so cleverly done to this day people don't understand it took away way more then it gave. But because no one spoke up for DOT DAMAGE BUILD aka pet sorcerer.. IT WAS a feel good for spam sorcerer. DUMMY IT A NERF What they dont realize is the tooltip you see. IS ALWAYS GETTING NERF DOWN TO DO LESS DAMAGE TO THE POINT TEMPLAR CAN OUT TANK YOUR ENDLESS. IF D SWING ON AVERAGE IS DOING THE SAME DAMAGE AS A ULTIMATE. Then sorcerer damage SHOULD BE SET AS IS.. WITHOUT Amplitude.
Another NERF overall by alot.

But sure I would be happy to see something like that for templar. Anything even Steven to sorcerer

In that same scenario, you would have 0% extra damage from Implosion. But continuously receive the passive increase from Amplitude. Unless you had lightning flood running at the same time, in which case it would only have effect at the very last minute (and likely the frag would forgo it anyway), but Amplitude is on every tick, plus your frag. Again, I don't see a nerf here.

However... what are we discussing here now? Dizzying Swing (weapon ability) vs Crystal Frags (sorc ability), or Burning Light (templar passive) vs Implosion (former sorc passive)? We can't really debate your OP if you can't keep the discussion within the boundaries of your own argument.

Somebody offered you build advice as a suggestion further up the thread. I think that might be better for you than progressing this discussion that you have hardly any grip on to be fair.

Ryath_Waylander · May 2020

Kids shouting and "DEMAND"ing in capslock. Chance of being taken seriously in a reasoned debate.. not much.

mairwen85 · May 2020

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

Kids shouting and "DEMAND"ing in capslock. Chance of being taken seriously in a reasoned debate.. not much.

Every time I see a thread title with random caps, I think 'here we go again'

notyuu · May 2020

Implosion works with ANY shock damage
i.e.

lighting staff light attack
lighting staff heavy attack
Any weapon with a shock damage glyph
overload
mages fury
lighting form
lighting splash
streak
auroran's thunder
mad tinkerer
overwhelming surge
storm master
storm knight's plate
thunderbug's carapace
Stormfist

and ANY physical damage
i.e.

Unarmed light/heavy
Bow light/heavy
two handed light/heavy
shield and one handed light/heavy
single blade light/heavy
Hurricane
Bound Armaments
Berserk strike
uppercut
critical charge
cleave
reverse slash
Rapid fire
snipe
volley
scatter shot
arrow spray
Puncture
Low slash
Shield charge
Power bash
Lacerate
Flurry
Twin slashs
whirlwind
blade cloak
Hidden blade
Bashing
Caltrops
Silver Bolts
Dawnbreaker
Werewolf..everything

And that's not even mentioning the physical damage sets that could proc the damn thing.
By comparison burning light can be set off by

Radial sweep
Puncturing strikes
Piercing javelin
Focused charge
Spear shards
Sunsheild

so given that implosion allows for a MUCH greater level of versatility I don't really see any reason to tweak or nerf it, as for burning light, maybe a 5-10% damage decrease due to it hitting stupid hard at times.

zvavi · May 2020

The real reason implosion (which I miss too, since it gave sorc more lightning identity) was gone is that in PvP it was not consistent enough and made low hp enemy's death an rng instead of skill. The real debate should be if it was a real problem or not...

Alienoutlaw · May 2020

D swing vs crystal fragments both are at 1112 ish but as the sorcerer is nerf with AMPLITUDE. YOU LOSE UP TO 10% DAMAGE.

My frag's proc for 40-50k don't see an issue at all

Nevasca · May 2020

Implosion was nerfed because it was unfun and unreliable.

I played a lot of StamSorc in PvP at the time, and let me tell you, killing someone with Implosion felt like I got carried by RNG. Same when I got killed with Mage's Wrath + Implosion. Just not a fun mechanic at all. I'd rather have consistent damage output (Burning Light or Amplitude) than that.

technohic · May 2020

Poor sorcs.

BRB. Going to go make a thread about my necromancer complaining NB too tanky.

mairwen85 · May 2020

zvavi wrote: »

The real reason implosion (which I miss too, since it gave sorc more lightning identity) was gone is that in PvP it was not consistent enough and made low hp enemy's death an rng instead of skill. The real debate should be if it was a real problem or not...

I think it's a fair point that the loss of Implosion meant the loss of identity for sorc. It could have been reworked to be more consistent instead of being outright replaced. However, that isn't the basis of OP's argument; within the context of what they're stating, Amplitude is still a buff over Implosion because it applies to all skills, not just those that are of the shock damage type.

zvavi · May 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

Amplitude is still a buff over Implosion because it applies to all skills, not just those that are of the shock damage type.

But inturn makes some skills useless in pve.

#execute that I run in trials only for sustain

laksikus · May 2020

What r&g?