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What wasnt addressed in the 2020 furniture limit update

Zypheran
Zypheran
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Firstly, thanks to Cullen and team for the article back in February on the item limits in housing.
It was much appreciated and forthcoming communication that I did find it to be insightful. But, for me there were two key issues that the article did not address.

- 700 is the max …. so why cant we allow the option to upgrade all homes to 700 items?
- In the ESO Live episode last year with Cullen, he mentioned that the team acknowledges the request for more medium and smaller houses and they were working on that. However, since then, the majority of the houses released have been crown only, monster homes where there is no way you could decorate them with 700 slots.

So given that we accept the 700 limit, if there are to be future updates on this subject, I think it would be important to address these two points, particularly the second one. There is no point having a discussion on item limits without addressing the continued direction of ZOS to predominantly release houses that simply cant be decorated within the current constraints.
Perhaps its time to be forthcoming. Is there a commercial interest in mainly producing houses that are clearly imbalanced with the furnishing limits o the system??
Maybe very few people bought Lucky Cat or Frostvault homes compared to Potentates Retreat or other huge properties. If that is the case, then I would completely understand. Why would ZOS design more medium homes for 6000 crowns when what people really want are large flashy 14000 crown status symbols? If that is the case then I think it would actually help to know that because I think people would accept it rather than thinking that ZOS is just ignoring the request to release homes that match the item restrictions.

On a more positive note though, I noticed that a lot of the new furniture currently on the PTS has both filled and empty versions. This is a positive move that contributes to better use of the limited item count. You listened to our feedback and implemented it. Also, Proudspire was a gleaming example of where you gave a house with an item limit that comfortably matched the size of the house. Really good job on that one and again, thanks for listening to the feedback there.
All my housing builds are available on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3oJ_cxuu01HmWZJZ6KK6g?view_as=subscriber
I am happy to share the EHT save files for most of my builds.
  • Tigerseye
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    bluebird wrote: »
    Between putting fruits in a bowl individually vs. having a pre-filled fruit bowl.

    Yes, we definitely need pre-filled fruit bowls, of various styles.

    I often make a very simple wooden Dres Bowl, Serving one, for example, with a bunch of bananas, a bunch of grapes and 3 apples:

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    ...and you can also use a Murkmire Plate, Charger, using the same fruit, like this:

    svgKoiB.png

    HWLuItw.png

    I like making them, but you are painfully aware, every time you do, how wasteful of slots it is.

    Both use 6 items, so you could obviously save 5 of those slots, if they came pre-filled.

    They are quite quick and easy to make, but there are only so many ways you can fill a small fruit bowl, so they would be an ideal addition.

    They could make them in various racial styles (not just the one from the latest chapter), ideally using fruit from the appropriate areas.

    Also, they could make large versions, for large houses, and even huge versions, on equally huge platters, for palatial houses.

    For example, they could use the large gold platters, they put the first three Jubilee Cakes on, for one of the Large versions:

    MRdRgla.png

    ...and then have even larger platters for the Palatial versions.

    You would save a lot of slots (maybe over a hundred!), with the largest versions, if the fruit was piled up really high on them and they would make great centre pieces in extremely large homes.
  • kind_hero
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    bluebird wrote: »
    3) I didn't see why they don't support the instance-splitting solution, either (if they addressed that, apologies). Many houses with massive exteriors and large interiors could be split into separate loading screens via the doors. At least technically I don't see a difference between buying two houses with 500 limit for 7000 Crowns each (which we can do right now), vs. splitting a ginormous mansion into two instances (indoors and outdoors) with 500 limit for 7000 Crowns each.

    4) There is also a question as to why they don't make more cluster items. Cullen mentioned that Special collectibles are more taxing than traditional furnishings, but are cluster type furnishings more taxing than individual items? Because if not, we could really use more of those. There is a huge difference between being able to lay down a whole plate/box of vegetables versus individual potatoes. Between putting fruits in a bowl individually vs. having a pre-filled fruit bowl.
    Tree-Ferns-Cluster-1.jpg
    Because it's ridiculous that we can place 3 trees and 8 ferns in 1 cluster item, but still need to place a Quill and Inkwell separately every time. :lol:

    3) the houses do not have separate instances, but actually the interior "instance" is a space under the exterior grounds. I have tested this is several houses with blue crystals that can be seen through pools of water. When you use a door, you teleport somewhere below where they placed the cell for your interior space. That's why splitting the exterior from the interior can't be done with this engine.

    4) When you have an item such as a filled bookshelf, all the items are treated as one, because the 3d mesh is fused, so you have a single item, even though it has more polygons and textures, but for the engine it is one item. That's why the complicated structure of some houses does not count toward the item count, and it draws so fast. If you create a building from scratch, you can see its elements loading, and also you might have a performance drop near complex constructions.

    That's why, my plea for the developers is to add more prefabs in game! From filled fruit bowls to building parts, housing could be much more interesting in this game. We already know that the devs love to see our creations, and I think these creations can rekindle the interest for the game in veteran players or casuals, because I have seen this many times touring houses with people. Housing is very beneficial to the game, if done right!

    TBH, I am not so excited anymore about low item count houses, such as 200 or 400. If 700 is the "universal constant" then fine, we can work with that, especially if the devs give us more grouped items. What I don't like is when the "house" is way to large that it is very hard to decorate.

    I agree, Proudspire is a great example of a very balanced house, however it is 99% based on an existing model from Skyrim.
    [PC/EU] Tamriel Hero, Stormproof, Grand Master Crafter
  • bluebird
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    kind_hero wrote: »
    bluebird wrote: »
    3) I didn't see why they don't support the instance-splitting solution, either (if they addressed that, apologies). Many houses with massive exteriors and large interiors could be split into separate loading screens via the doors. At least technically I don't see a difference between buying two houses with 500 limit for 7000 Crowns each (which we can do right now), vs. splitting a ginormous mansion into two instances (indoors and outdoors) with 500 limit for 7000 Crowns each.

    4) There is also a question as to why they don't make more cluster items. Cullen mentioned that Special collectibles are more taxing than traditional furnishings, but are cluster type furnishings more taxing than individual items? Because if not, we could really use more of those. There is a huge difference between being able to lay down a whole plate/box of vegetables versus individual potatoes. Between putting fruits in a bowl individually vs. having a pre-filled fruit bowl.
    Tree-Ferns-Cluster-1.jpg
    Because it's ridiculous that we can place 3 trees and 8 ferns in 1 cluster item, but still need to place a Quill and Inkwell separately every time. :lol:
    3) the houses do not have separate instances, but actually the interior "instance" is a space under the exterior grounds. I have tested this is several houses with blue crystals that can be seen through pools of water. When you use a door, you teleport somewhere below where they placed the cell for your interior space. That's why splitting the exterior from the interior can't be done with this engine.
    I know that's currently the case (on my old PC I could sometimes see the furnished rooms underground before the terrain and the house loaded lol), but that doesn't address the potential for splitting houses into instances.

    Like, currently Moonsugar Meadow (an exterior standalone home) is a separate instance with a separate loading screen from Cliffshade (an interior standalone house). They could do the same for ginormous mansions, release an exterior home and an interior home separately, except the door would load you into the other house. (I believe AddOns already did this, if you placed a portal into your homes it could load you into another of your homes without having to navigate to the Collections menu.)

    I'm not sure if I explained it well. :sweat_smile: But imagine that the interior of Grand Psijic Villa wouldn't be under the garden of Grand Psijic Villa (thus sharing item limits and contributing to performance issues), but instead it would be located in a separate instance with separate items limits just like many interior-only houses are currently. They could still charge the same for it (e.g. 7,5k Crowns for Psijic Gardens and 7,5k for Psijc Villa which is the same as the current whole for 15k), and it's basically the same as them releasing 2 unrelated houses as they regularly do, but this way they can keep their grand designs while also giving players the chance to furnish all areas properly.
  • MattVH
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    Makes a lot of sense to me that every house would get the same amount. Yes please give 700 to all. Housing might just be my favorite feature in ESO, but I can't enjoy it. The current cap to every house is making sure we don't get to really decorate whatever place properly.

    Nothing is stopping us from placing 700 candles on a pile at a large home, like we would be able to in a smaller home. So I'm not gonna really buy the possible reason that it's because of performance lol

    I truly believe their statements about not being able to improve the 700 cap. But surely making more 'smaller' houses having a cap of 700 wouldn't hurt?
    Edited by MattVH on April 28, 2020 11:05AM
  • Zypheran
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    Up until the poltergeist bug kicked in at Proudspire I was really enjoying decorating this house.
    Its amazing how enjoyable it is to decorate a home where the size matches the item limit. Its like having so much creative freedom to do things like use 20 ( :o gasp, yes 20... how extravagant!) items to create a piano.
    Having spent time over the last week on a medium sized home with 600 slots, I now think it is so important for ZOS to go back and revisit other small and medium homes and give the option to upgrade these to 700 slots. Surely it would be a win win for everybody?!
    ZOS says they want to support the creative endeavors of the housing community, well this is one very straight forward way to allow us more creative freedom while staying within the almost Einsteinian Universal Limits that is 700 items. It would be a major step forward and would inject a lot of new energy into the system to be able to go back and visit old homes and builds and see what way they can be imagines with 700 items.
    Edited by Zypheran on April 28, 2020 11:30AM
    All my housing builds are available on YouTube
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf3oJ_cxuu01HmWZJZ6KK6g?view_as=subscriber
    I am happy to share the EHT save files for most of my builds.
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