[Suggestion] the "craft bag" should be a product of the shop!

5cript · April 2020

What I read in the title: "You should kill your steady income."

Khatou · April 2020

Like, because you think the subscription is their main breadwinner? You can't even imagine how much people can spend on boxes in a single purchase, as if the subscription is more profitable than a LOL box, in only 1 day some people spend without any trouble what some people pay for a subscription in 1, 2, 3 or 4 years (and no, it's not a joke!).

The subscription just serves to keep people on a leash to push them to be addicted to the game effect still multiplied by daily rewards forcing to be connected every day and then one has the right to the moral of addiction, but the games do everything for...

And here your words are the proof and result of all this, wanting to keep the bag of crafts under the pretext that you are a subscriber.

I don't know if you've noticed, but the more we live on subscription...

Elsonso · April 2020

Khatou wrote: »

Like, because you think the subscription is their main breadwinner? You can't even imagine how much people can spend on boxes in a single purchase, as if the subscription is more profitable than a LOL box, in only 1 day some people spend without any trouble what some people pay for a subscription in 1, 2, 3 or 4 years (and no, it's not a joke!).

The subscription just serves to keep people on a leash

If that is the purpose for the subscription, my take is that it is working quite well. There may be whales, and large dolphins, out there going crazy with buying Crowns so that they can buy everything that is in the store, including Crown Crates by the semi-truck load. I would not doubt this, but don't downplay how many subscriptions there are. I think it is more likely that you will come across a player in the game with an ESO Plus subscription than without. Which is on top is something only Bethesda/ZOS knows for sure.

spartaxoxo · April 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

The cost would have to be astronomical for this to make financial sense for ZoS. We know there is a decent percentage of players that keep their subscriptions up just for the crafting bag. That is a steady stream of revenue. If the crafting bag were ever put in the crown store I would expect the price to be at least as much as a years subscription.

Personally I think they should add a subscription that's crafting bag only. No DLC. No Crowns. Make it cost more than you would if you got the bag in the sub, but less than cost of the sub + dlc.

spartaxoxo · April 2020

It gives perks to subscribers that are enough to entice them to subscribe, while not being so extremely good that people who don't subscribe feel restricted in what they can do.

@Twilanthe

Unpaid players actually do feel limited by the lack of a crafting bag and ZOS has even gone on record as saying inventory management is taking up too much time and were working on solutions way back when. That's the reason for the housing chests.

It's why this keeps coming up while other perks aren't complained about.

robertthebard · April 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It gives perks to subscribers that are enough to entice them to subscribe, while not being so extremely good that people who don't subscribe feel restricted in what they can do.

@Twilanthe

Unpaid players actually do feel limited by the lack of a crafting bag and ZOS has even gone on record as saying inventory management is taking up too much time and were working on solutions way back when. That's the reason for the housing chests.

It's why this keeps coming up while other perks aren't complained about.

Maybe it's more because they know they have a better chance of getting this than say free coins for the shop every month, or double bank space, or free access to the DLCs? Not much left to ask for after those, other than advancement boosts? So they aim for the "low hanging fruit".

spartaxoxo · April 2020

thissocalledflower wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This thread will go the same way as the others before it. Those who don't subscribe will feel that they should be able to get the crafting bag without subscribing, while those who have subscribed for several years in order to get the crafting bag will oppose it being available to those who choose not to subscribe.

That's not entirely true. I sub to the eso+ and i get the craft bag and i feel that there should be a basic craftbag for everyone. A bag that holds a maximum of 10 of every craft item so that people can do the dailies but not enough so that people cant hoard items and there is still an incentive to subbing. Please dont presume to speak for me. I am able to speak for myself after all.

This also seems like a fair solution. I have a 1 year subscription to ESO, but I think free users should get an inferior version so that the excessive amount of time spent inventory managaing is reduced. It shouldn't be so good it's not an incentive to sub, but it also shouldn't be Elder Bags online. Perhaps one stack of each mat would be enough.

spartaxoxo · April 2020

robertthebard wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It gives perks to subscribers that are enough to entice them to subscribe, while not being so extremely good that people who don't subscribe feel restricted in what they can do.

@Twilanthe

Unpaid players actually do feel limited by the lack of a crafting bag and ZOS has even gone on record as saying inventory management is taking up too much time and were working on solutions way back when. That's the reason for the housing chests.

It's why this keeps coming up while other perks aren't complained about.

Maybe it's more because they know they have a better chance of getting this than say free coins for the shop every month, or double bank space, or free access to the DLCs? Not much left to ask for after those, other than advancement boosts? So they aim for the "low hanging fruit".

No. The other stuff doesn't have as a large impact on playing the game. That's because a lot of people's income is writs and writs throw large amounts of mats at you.

robertthebard · April 2020

spartaxoxo wrote: »

robertthebard wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

It gives perks to subscribers that are enough to entice them to subscribe, while not being so extremely good that people who don't subscribe feel restricted in what they can do.

@Twilanthe

Unpaid players actually do feel limited by the lack of a crafting bag and ZOS has even gone on record as saying inventory management is taking up too much time and were working on solutions way back when. That's the reason for the housing chests.

It's why this keeps coming up while other perks aren't complained about.

Maybe it's more because they know they have a better chance of getting this than say free coins for the shop every month, or double bank space, or free access to the DLCs? Not much left to ask for after those, other than advancement boosts? So they aim for the "low hanging fruit".

No. The other stuff doesn't have as a large impact on playing the game

Really? I'd think that, if I didn't buy it, being able to play the Dark Brotherhood quest line to get the Blade of Woe has a significant impact on the game. There are a lot of mobs that I can now sneak up on and one shot with it, including Dremora in endgame Cold Harbor. I know, I just got done doing a lot of that. Had a guy whisper me the other day about how they hadn't thought about being able to do that in the library there. What about gear sets that come from the DLCs that subs don't have to pay for to play? Those only matter when it's a character build discussion? 10% boosts aren't as impactful as a bag? What about double bank space?

No, they ask for the bag because they know they'd get shouted down asking for anything else, and rightfully so. It's also pretty spot on to say "If you want the bag bad enough that you're willing to buy it, spend that money on a month sub, and get it that way", along with all the other goodies you dismiss out of hand as not having as large an impact on the game. For 14.99 you can add all the mats you have to the bag, and you can cancel it right after you pay it to make sure you only pay once, or wait for the free trial, which seems to happen quarterly?

GenjiraX · April 2020

Without removing the craft bag from the ESO+ subscription, they could offer a monthly rental of the craft bag alone via the crown store for a smidge under the cost of ESO+.

Everest_Lionheart · April 2020

I’ve got other expensive hobbies. ESO+ sub is cheap by comparison and several more hours of entertainment.

First hobby I have is ice hockey $20-$25 per game 2 games per week. 1.5 hours per game. 3 hours for $40 minimum but factor in zambo time and actual ice times plus my Gatorade, beers after, gas to get to games hockey equipment that need to be replaced periodically, regular skate sharpening... It’s not cheap.

Now to pay for my hockey I referee the sport, year round in Quebec, 5-10 games per week depending on season. $50 to ref an hour and a half. Also has equipment, food, drink and travel expenses but more than offsets my player cost. Gives me enough play money to throw at a game like this and at my second hobby, Golf.

Now golf you are paying greens fees sometimes as low as $25 at a really crappy course but if you want to play anywhere decent with quality fairways, greens and course amenities you are looking at laying out $40 minimum upwards of $100 for some semi private clubs which comes with lots of extra stuff like club cleaning, valet parking, access to showers, breakfast, carts, range balls. Pay more get more, 100 is my top end budget but you can go triple that or more at the most elite country clubs. Also expensss like clubs, balls, tees, gloves, beers at the turn, a hotdog or two, maybe a hat or sun screen because your forgot yours at home. So 4 hours of entertainment at minimum $40 though likely much more.

Now ESO+ sub, for me $200 Canadian for the year. That’s 5 rounds of golf or 10 hockey games for the same cost. I’m at 322 hours logged so far after 6.5 weeks. I’m getting some serious bang for my buck here with the craft bag, exp boosts, crowns and DLC access. Back in my days hanging with the boys I could drop a $200 bar tab on Friday night and go back for more on Saturday.

Bottom line: The ESO+ sub is definitely an entertainment value.

Bucky_13 · April 2020

Nah, if they do that, they will lose 90% of their subscribers. Never gonna happen.

Khatou · April 2020

-1650 Crowns to be used in the In-Game Crown Shop at the beginning of each membership period. (You can use Crowns for convenience and customization items, such as mounts, pets, and costumes).
-Access all downloadable content available in the Crown Shop during the term of membership.
-Exclusive character progression bonuses during the term of membership:
A 10% bonus to EXP earnings
A 10% bonus for looking for crafts
A 10% bonus to the Crafting Inspiration Earning Bonus
A 10% bonus on the acquisition of gold
-2x the number of pieces of furniture and collectibles in the players' houses as a bonus.
- 2x bonus bank space.
-2x the number of transmutation crystals.
-Dyeing of disguises available at the dyeing workshops.

Because that's not enough to release the craft bag?

Let me laugh at your egocentricity!

Alinhbo_Tyaka · April 2020

You have the option to use the free ESO+ periods to fill up the crafting bag for the between free ESO+ trials. You could also subscribe for a month to fill up the bag to use when you are not subscribed. Even if you aren't subscribed you can still access materials in the bag you just can't add to it.

Nestor · April 2020

Khatou wrote: »

-1650 Crowns to be used in the In-Game Crown Shop at the beginning of each membership period. (You can use Crowns for convenience and customization items, such as mounts, pets, and costumes).
-Access all downloadable content available in the Crown Shop during the term of membership.
-Exclusive character progression bonuses during the term of membership:
A 10% bonus to EXP earnings
A 10% bonus for looking for crafts
A 10% bonus to the Crafting Inspiration Earning Bonus
A 10% bonus on the acquisition of gold
-2x the number of pieces of furniture and collectibles in the players' houses as a bonus.
- 2x bonus bank space.
-2x the number of transmutation crystals.
-Dyeing of disguises available at the dyeing workshops.

Because that's not enough to release the craft bag?

Let me laugh at your egocentricity!

Free Crowns worth more than what the Sub Costs and Double the Storage to boot.

Just subscribe already, the reasons for it are listed above. In a post I quoted from you.

Sylvermynx · April 2020

Khatou wrote: »

-1650 Crowns to be used in the In-Game Crown Shop at the beginning of each membership period. (You can use Crowns for convenience and customization items, such as mounts, pets, and costumes).
-Access all downloadable content available in the Crown Shop during the term of membership.
-Exclusive character progression bonuses during the term of membership:
A 10% bonus to EXP earnings
A 10% bonus for looking for crafts
A 10% bonus to the Crafting Inspiration Earning Bonus
A 10% bonus on the acquisition of gold
-2x the number of pieces of furniture and collectibles in the players' houses as a bonus.
- 2x bonus bank space.
-2x the number of transmutation crystals.
-Dyeing of disguises available at the dyeing workshops.

Because that's not enough to release the craft bag?

Let me laugh at your egocentricity!

Well.... look at all that. YOU are the one whining about subbing, right?

JEEZ.

robertthebard · April 2020

Khatou wrote: »

-1650 Crowns to be used in the In-Game Crown Shop at the beginning of each membership period. (You can use Crowns for convenience and customization items, such as mounts, pets, and costumes).
-Access all downloadable content available in the Crown Shop during the term of membership.
-Exclusive character progression bonuses during the term of membership:
A 10% bonus to EXP earnings
A 10% bonus for looking for crafts
A 10% bonus to the Crafting Inspiration Earning Bonus
A 10% bonus on the acquisition of gold
-2x the number of pieces of furniture and collectibles in the players' houses as a bonus.
- 2x bonus bank space.
-2x the number of transmutation crystals.
-Dyeing of disguises available at the dyeing workshops.

Because that's not enough to release the craft bag?

Let me laugh at your egocentricity!

Yeah, because none of that stuff is desirable in any way, shape or form, it's just all about that crafting bag.

To be fair, there are players that have stated that it's a deciding factor, but really, if you want it, sub. Look at all the other benefits you'll be picking up along with it.

idk · April 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Every time someone asks "why can't we buy the craft bag without subscribing" the accounting department has to buy marketing a beer.

Crafting Bag = most valuable incentive to subscribe. ZOS ain't gonna change that.

This is so true. It is the second-best incentive to sub that Zos has ever provided. The best incentive was when it was a requirement for playing the game. So in reality, those complaining about not being able to have the crafting back without a ESO+ are forgetting that small little change made that allows them to play without a subscription, the most reliable revenue source Zos has.

But yes. Every time someone creates a thread like this they are merely telling Zos' business people what an amazing decision they made to make the crafting bag an incentive exclusive to ESO+

Bradyfjord · April 2020

For me, it's not just the crafting mats.
I just never know when some random set is going to be something I want to use. I can't let them go.

Tigerseye · April 2020

I think they should add a limited size craft bag (one stack per item), for non-subscribers, which you can then add to by buying upgrades in the shop.

Also think you should be able to buy more inv and bank storage, from the shop, too.

It's ridiculous that you can't even collect a few mats, without overloading your inventory, if you don't sub.

If giving people a stack of storage space, for each material, stops people subbing, they should make subbing more attractive in other ways.

Give away some more unmissable rewards with it.

Loyalty rewards etc..

But, not time gated ones - ones that are linked to how long you sub, in total, starting from when you started subbing (or when the loyalty rewards began).

Also think they should add more inv and bank storage space - for everyone, but especially for subscribers - each time there is more content added (so, each chapter and DLC - assuming you have access to them/have bought them).

As it is, you can sub to ESO+ and still not have enough inv/bank space, without logging alts all day and/or employing other workarounds (free alt accounts, free [fake] guild banks)

That is, clearly, not right.

The storage you sub for/pay Crowns for should be the primary and most convenient way to get more storage.

As it is, there are better ways, that get you more space, don't involve you paying any money and (in one case) involve you, basically, misleading new players.

How can that be right?

Tigerseye · April 2020

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

....well, you probably could, you'd just need to have a couple more mules.

...and/or alt accounts and/or free (fake) guild banks.

Therein lies the problem.

Tigerseye · April 2020

Tandor wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

This thread will go the same way as the others before it. Those who don't subscribe will feel that they should be able to get the crafting bag without subscribing, while those who have subscribed for several years in order to get the crafting bag will oppose it being available to those who choose not to subscribe.

ok, but for those who have bought collector's editions and those who used to be reserved for this one is now/sometimes accessible in shops, we're talking about it?

I think it's completely idiotic to oppose this idea out of pure selfishness, because X has been paying a subscription for x amount of time, when nobody forces you to do it.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

It all seems fair to me. If you like the game and enjoy playing it regularly, buy a darn subscription. If you play the game sporadically or bounce among many games, then don't fret the craftibag and perks.

The problem is that I don't enjoy the game as much anymore because of all the problems it can have and this company doesn't do anything about it and even the current plan doesn't change any more and a big part of the players feel the opposite effect more than the expected effect.

It's because of this that I decided to stop subscribing to this game and it's also because of this that we can end up understanding non-subscribed players, contrary to people blinded by the comfort of their subscription!!!!

There's nothing selfish about wanting something that was always stated to be exclusive to subscribers being kept exclusive to subscribers. It's certainly no more selfish than someone coming along and saying that because they're not enjoying the game so much any more they should be entitled to things they haven't paid for.

That was in reply to the second paragraph of your reply, I've no idea what the first paragraph means. Similarly, I've no idea what the current performance issues and their impact on your enjoyment of the game have to do with reversing the original decision that crafting bags would be for subscribers only.

There is something selfish about it.

You want it to remain a certain way, for you and don't care about someone else's perspective.

That is, technically, selfish.

DaveMoeDee · April 2020

Tandor wrote: »

This thread will go the same way as the others before it. Those who don't subscribe will feel that they should be able to get the crafting bag without subscribing, while those who have subscribed for several years in order to get the crafting bag will oppose it being available to those who choose not to subscribe.

It isn't that straightforward. Not everyone thinks of every issue as if the earth revolves around them.

I hate inventory management. I also find the sub very overpriced for the amount of content released annually (excluding chapter that requires additional payment). But I can't imagine crafting bag being sold in the store. I would save so much money though. I currently have 28,710 crowns from past subbing with nothing to spend them on. If I could buy the crafting bag for 25k crowns, I would probably never sub again. I honestly feel that 25k crowns is too low a price to charge considering how many subs they will lose and how many have stored up crowns from past subs.

Since the cost of a sub is steep for repeating content over and over again, I just regularly take extended breaks so I don't have to deal with the horrible inventory management.

Tigerseye · April 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

There is no upside for ZoS to take that enticement away.

Actually, there is.

If a lot of very new players are leaving, after a short amount of time, at least partly because they have found the game too frustrating to play, due at least in part to their first impressions of inv management, that is not good news for ZOS.

There should be advantages to subbing, of course - otherwise, why would anyone do it?

However, if first impressions of the game are too frustrating, people may leave before they even understand how they could improve that experience for themselves, by subbing (or whatever else).

Also, if the solutions are too inexorably tied to a commitment, like subbing, they may not be ready for that commitment, yet.

Or, alternatively, if they do stay long enough to realise there are workarounds, that can provide more storage than subbing, they may just take those workarounds and never sub, at all (outside of free ESO+ trials).

So, from a purely financial perspective, what ZOS need to do, is: a) find a way of making sure people don't leave the game too soon, b) make sure there is enough (partially buyable) extra storage available and c) make sure there are flexible ways people can pay for that extra (buyable) storage, rather than just allowing them to find superior and free (or nearly free) workarounds.

Tigerseye · April 2020

Hippie4927 wrote: »

No!

I have read your posts with interest, Hippie and all I can assume is that your name applies to your hips, or something else hip-related, because you are definitely not one.

Tigerseye · April 2020

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

And why would they want to make it easier for the non-subscriber - that is really funny to even read such a suggestion. The whole hassle with the inventory system is intentionally in the game, in order to raise the number of subscribers. The last ZOS would want to do is to give subscribers a reason to eventually unsubscribe by making the gap smaller.

This is like firemen setting fire to houses to make sure they have a job.

There is a lot of that about...

Tigerseye · April 2020

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

I’ve got other expensive hobbies. ESO+ sub is cheap by comparison and several more hours of entertainment.

First hobby I have is ice hockey $20-$25 per game 2 games per week. 1.5 hours per game. 3 hours for $40 minimum but factor in zambo time and actual ice times plus my Gatorade, beers after, gas to get to games hockey equipment that need to be replaced periodically, regular skate sharpening... It’s not cheap.

Now to pay for my hockey I referee the sport, year round in Quebec, 5-10 games per week depending on season. $50 to ref an hour and a half. Also has equipment, food, drink and travel expenses but more than offsets my player cost. Gives me enough play money to throw at a game like this and at my second hobby, Golf.

Now golf you are paying greens fees sometimes as low as $25 at a really crappy course but if you want to play anywhere decent with quality fairways, greens and course amenities you are looking at laying out $40 minimum upwards of $100 for some semi private clubs which comes with lots of extra stuff like club cleaning, valet parking, access to showers, breakfast, carts, range balls. Pay more get more, 100 is my top end budget but you can go triple that or more at the most elite country clubs. Also expensss like clubs, balls, tees, gloves, beers at the turn, a hotdog or two, maybe a hat or sun screen because your forgot yours at home. So 4 hours of entertainment at minimum $40 though likely much more.

Now ESO+ sub, for me $200 Canadian for the year. That’s 5 rounds of golf or 10 hockey games for the same cost. I’m at 322 hours logged so far after 6.5 weeks. I’m getting some serious bang for my buck here with the craft bag, exp boosts, crowns and DLC access. Back in my days hanging with the boys I could drop a $200 bar tab on Friday night and go back for more on Saturday.

Bottom line: The ESO+ sub is definitely an entertainment value.

Your hobby schedule sounds more exhausting than most people's jobs...

robertthebard · April 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

There is no upside for ZoS to take that enticement away.

Actually, there is.

If a lot of very new players are leaving, after a short amount of time, at least partly because they have found the game too frustrating to play, due at least in part to their first impressions of inv management, that is not good news for ZOS.

There should be advantages to subbing, of course - otherwise, why would anyone do it?

However, if first impressions of the game are too frustrating, people may leave before they even understand how they could improve that experience for themselves, by subbing (or whatever else).

Also, if the solutions are too inexorably tied to a commitment, like subbing, they may not be ready for that commitment, yet.

Or, alternatively, if they do stay long enough to realise there are workarounds, that can provide more storage than subbing, they may just take those workarounds and never sub, at all (outside of free ESO+ trials).

So, from a purely financial perspective, what ZOS need to do, is: a) find a way of making sure people don't leave the game too soon, b) make sure there is enough (partially buyable) extra storage available and c) make sure there are flexible ways people can pay for that extra (buyable) storage, rather than just allowing them to find superior and free (or nearly free) workarounds.

Yes, because inventory management in an RPG has always been crystal smooth, let alone an MMO...

Nope, not buying it. Allow me to break down another version of selfish for ya': Wanting something that you don't meet the qualifications for, but claiming it's "for the new players". Let me tell you how I dealt with it as a new player. I decided whether or not I was having a good time playing. I then looked at what + offered, and decided to sub. I didn't come to the forums and rant about how inventory management in an MMORPG was going to be the final nail in the coffin for the game, however. Why? Because I play enough RPGs, MMO and otherwise, to know that inventory management is generally a thing I'm going to have to deal with. In some games it's number of slots, in other games it's weight, but it's there, needing to be dealt with. I'm willing to bet that while this may indeed be someone's first MMO, it's likely not their first RPG.

Michae · April 2020

I managed without craft bag when I wast first playing the game in 2016 and then 2017. I was short on cash then and I didn't reallly have money for sub. Right now I craft a lot and without craft bag it would be hard. Luckily I have steady job so paying for ESO+ is not a big deal. I understand the sentiment here but craft bag in Crown Store is not going to happen. TBH I'd prefer for ESO to be sub only now since this mix between f2p and sub can get a bit tedious. But yeah, as always I'm amazed that those alarmists that say the game is dying stick around. If I didn't enjoy playing ESO I wouldn't play it. I value my time.

Lannharr · April 2020

Subscription is relatively cheap compared to other games. I remember playing Dungeons and Dragons Online and you had to pay for everything apart the free to play maps and stuff.