ESO - a masterpiece we will never forget, despite all bugs, errors and lag

BRogueNZ · April 2020

if you say so, they got stuck with an engine they can't fix, looks good I'll give them that much credit to their art team.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · April 2020

Elsonso wrote: »

Quelios wrote: »

I just want to remind all of you that this is one of the best game ever so we will still play it many years and we will still buy any new chapter. So ZOS, we need you to improve this game, to fix all claimed errors and bugs, because I don't see other better MMORPG to come in the near future. ESO is our escaping world .. now and after "#stay home" time...
And ... not last ... Thank You ZOS for all your hard work and dedication !

ESO requires a lot of patience. Like any successful business, I think they want to do well and they want to continue to succeed, but they have to live within the budget. There are only so many people who can work on things, and only so much time to do it. ESO is a massive game, and far too large for a development team of a reasonable size to keep an eye on all of it.

The ESO devs come off as people who like doing what they are doing, like doing it well, and like watching us run around playing what they create. They deserve the thanks that you have given them.

Lysette wrote: »

TES6 is several years out still - won't be out in a little while.

This is likely accurate. On top of that, I am wondering if Starfield and TES 6 were impacted by the need to go back to the drawing board with FO76 and add what should have always been there from launch. The rest of the game. I expect that ESO will get a lot closer to 10 years old before TES 6 comes out.

I have been keeping up on BGS leaks and news. TES VI is just now starting production. The employment page for Bethesda/Zenimax has reflected that. So prob good 3+ years on that. Starfield was supposed to come out this year, but with E3 canceling and silence from Todd and Pete, it anyone's guess there..

Quelios · April 2020

I didn't notice production starting for TES VI. It would be great to have an official announcement from Bethesda. ESO is still open for new chapters on map. There is an important improvement in this game since the beginning and ZOS is giving us hope for new improvement to come. I am sure this game will be better and better in time. Some of players will leave, some will stay, new players will join. I've met many returned players here, after 1 year or more.... There is hope...

eso_lags · April 2020

terrasight wrote: »

I just want to remind all of you that this is one of the best game ever

It "was" long time ago...

and we will still buy any new chapter

No...

This^ Sadly. They had something so awesome but they have lost it because they want to focus on a more casual audience and push out updates, and add all the new things that come with it, without fixing the major problems of the past.

Sure western skyrim is awesome and nostalgic but its just a shiny outside with a really messed up inside. Nostalgia, for me, is when pvp was populated and I could play with people without all these issues. With my skills and bar swap working when I used them, and with some lag but nothing like we have today.

Chicharron · April 2020

There are only 2 games that I consider masterpieces.

Super mario 64

Ocarina of Time

Relladen · April 2020

Indeed, a masterpiece in the sense that it's one of the most unique, lore-rich, immersive games ever created. However, a disaster in terms of performance.

That's honestly why we're so frustrated. Because they have such a beautiful masterpiece of a game on their hands and we can't even play it properly. And it's been happening for so long that it's not even possible to make excuses for them anymore, even if we wanted to.

tuxon · April 2020

I'm not buying Skyrim (again) lol. Only for gold next year.

WhyMustItBe · April 2020

ESO still has a lot going for it. The voice acting and exploration alone is totally worth it. There is great art and much fun to be had, if one is willing to work around the imperfections and make the effort to seek it out.

It doesn't hurt to voice critical feedback constructively and likewise, it doesn't hurt to reaffirm the positive.

The world is a scary and negative place in many ways today. One might be forgiven for getting the impression it is outright HOSTILE (and sometimes, it can be exactly that!).

However, sometimes it helps to just take a step back and realize, not EVERYTHING has to be a fight ALL the time.

It might feel like we are fighting for everything, all we hold dear, even our very lives. Because we ARE.

But, we don't ALWAYS have to fight each other on top of it.

Sometimes it is OK to just take a moment to appreciate what we have while we have it.

I feel this is true in life as it is in ESO.

Game on my friends.

LedJack · April 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

LedJack wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

LedJack wrote: »

The devs may have dedication, I'm still not too sure about that, but the fat cats just want to milk it.
That's why can't really play during primetime and most likely never will, because improving performance would mess with their bottom line.

Edit: and of course, TES VI is coming in a little while, so they are just making sure they squeeze every penny they can out of this, you know, just in case... No more investment on ESO...

TES6 is several years out still - won't be out in a little while.

It's a little while in gaming years, and investment too.

You assume Zenimax Online cant have their own game running alongside Bethesda Studios.

I don't mean to start this whole conversation over, but just to clarify.

I'm not implying they can't or won't run this game, I'm simply saying they don't care to have any more resources dumped in ESO. Not least due to the fact they have big projects elsewhere.

This is clearly evidenced by the fact they've been pulling resources and cutting costs for years now, so it's hard to imagine they'll suddenly have a change of heart and make the significant investment it would now take to make performance acceptable, even, let alone good.

Lysette · April 2020

LedJack wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

LedJack wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

LedJack wrote: »

The devs may have dedication, I'm still not too sure about that, but the fat cats just want to milk it.
That's why can't really play during primetime and most likely never will, because improving performance would mess with their bottom line.

Edit: and of course, TES VI is coming in a little while, so they are just making sure they squeeze every penny they can out of this, you know, just in case... No more investment on ESO...

TES6 is several years out still - won't be out in a little while.

It's a little while in gaming years, and investment too.

You assume Zenimax Online cant have their own game running alongside Bethesda Studios.

I don't mean to start this whole conversation over, but just to clarify.

I'm not implying they can't or won't run this game, I'm simply saying they don't care to have any more resources dumped in ESO. Not least due to the fact they have big projects elsewhere.

This is clearly evidenced by the fact they've been pulling resources and cutting costs for years now, so it's hard to imagine they'll suddenly have a change of heart and make the significant investment it would now take to make performance acceptable, even, let alone good.

Well, it is never good to run down an established game before the new one is established - so far it is just in production and could well fail, so it wouldn't be clever to kill the golden goose ESO currently is. There are enough examples of companies who did it like that and had to paddle back later on, because the new product didn't work out like expected. Then given the current situation in the real world, the next few years might not be the best time to sell games - so they better stick to ESO.

Eifleber · April 2020

Agree with OP.

GreenhaloX · April 2020

True.. ESO is a commendable game, and kudos to the devs and ZOS for all their efforts in developing and maintaining such an immersive and expansive game; though, I wouldn't refer it to such a masterpiece. A masterpiece, really, is something that is truly flawless in nature. ESO just has too many flaws; however, definitely will consider it as a high end game. Game has awesome details, depth and texture, the toons or characters looks great and details of scenery and surrounding are phenomenal. However, yes, endless and reoccurring bugs, glitches, lags, crashes and other tech issues plaguing the game for years are too noticeable to equate the game to a masterpiece. Plus, combat sequence in both PvE and PvP are really terrible.

Overall, despite all the headaches and frustrations from nerfing and changes with every and each updates, patch, dlcs and chapters, ESO is one of the best games of all time. Surely, have to give credits and praises to the devs and ZOS team (when due)

ha ha.

UGotBenched91 · April 2020

Quelios wrote: »

I just want to remind all of you that this is one of the best game ever so we will still play it many years and we will still buy any new chapter. So ZOS, we need you to improve this game, to fix all claimed errors and bugs, because I don't see other better MMORPG to come in the near future. ESO is our escaping world .. now and after "#stay home" time...
And ... not last ... Thank You ZOS for all your hard work and dedication !

I have thoroughly enjoyed the game. It’s the best MMO I’ve played in quite sometime ( although your guild market thing sucks). I haven’t experienced these game breaking bugs everyone talks about so I don’t know if my computer is better or I just haven’t done that specific content.

Elsonso · April 2020

LedJack wrote: »

This is clearly evidenced by the fact they've been pulling resources and cutting costs for years now, so it's hard to imagine they'll suddenly have a change of heart and make the significant investment it would now take to make performance acceptable, even, let alone good.

We obviously do not know what they funding level is for ESO. Half the time it looks like most of their staff is on furlough, and this has always been the case. When you consider that they do 3 major updates and a chapter per year, you have to realize that we only see a fraction of their resources applied to any given update. Everyone else is off working on something else. A lot of the team that did Greymoor is already off working on another project, and we won't even see it until next year.

The only objective reasoning for them cutting costs would be due to funding splits between three games, one released and two in development. I do think that they are diverting some resources from ESO to Game 3, but not for the same reasons that people seem to think here in the forum. This does not mean that ESO is being picked clean by the vultures.

We would not be where we are today if ZOS was pulling resources and cutting costs "for years now". Why? We have an ability desync problem. On a path of pulling resources and cutting costs, I would not expect to have this as a problem because the work that lead up to it would have never seen the light of day. There is obvious work going on behind the scenes to actually rebuild basic client and server functions, and that is why we are seeing the problems we are seeing. That is a lot of work, and it is very technical and very complicated, with major impacts for any slip-ups. That is a sign of investment, not the opposite.

I don't want to sound too optimistic, or too critical, since I think that ZOS has problems that they need to think about, and we are only observers making guesses. I do make comments about the bean counters getting in the way, and that is something that every software project has to deal with. Software is almost always more expensive than the budget allows, and successful businesses have to live within budgets. Schedules are almost always shorter than they should be. There is almost always more work than there are people to do it. We see that with every Update, and it looks like Greymoor took a hit due to the performance work that is being done.

Just observing, what I am seeing is that the game seems to be growing faster than the investment, and it does look like they are investing in ESO. I do think they are a little slow on adding server capacity for more players and QA resources for making sure that the ever-expanding game is adequately tested. It is also obvious that they are not spending enough money on communications with the players, but that is an entirely different subject.

Quelios · April 2020

WhyMustItBe wrote: »

ESO still has a lot going for it. The voice acting and exploration alone is totally worth it. There is great art and much fun to be had, if one is willing to work around the imperfections and make the effort to seek it out.

It doesn't hurt to voice critical feedback constructively and likewise, it doesn't hurt to reaffirm the positive.

The world is a scary and negative place in many ways today. One might be forgiven for getting the impression it is outright HOSTILE (and sometimes, it can be exactly that!).

However, sometimes it helps to just take a step back and realize, not EVERYTHING has to be a fight ALL the time.

It might feel like we are fighting for everything, all we hold dear, even our very lives. Because we ARE.

But, we don't ALWAYS have to fight each other on top of it.

Sometimes it is OK to just take a moment to appreciate what we have while we have it.

I feel this is true in life as it is in ESO.

Game on my friends.

yeah ... that's the point ...

Malprave · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

ESO has GROWN into a masterpiece and ZOS becomes better every year at writing, quest- and area design, art direction etc. etc... it reads better, it looks better etc... they only have to get a grip on balancing and performance issues!

but ESO was a MESS when it originally launched it was horrible - but its fantastic how much it has grown and is improving

You haven’t seen anything yet unless you’ve been to Greymoor on the PTS. Amazing! They nailed it. This is going to be a big year for ESO.

Thechuckage · April 2020

Considering I cant complete the initial time breach quest without getting D/C'd, going to have to disagree with how well its working right now

rpa · April 2020

It's the best MMO we currently have available. Too bad.

Loves_guars · April 2020

Even when I take breaks from ESO like now I miss it! I have such good memories exploring, questing and having fun with friends or total strangers cause the community is great too.

Quelios · April 2020

Loves_guars wrote: »

Even when I take breaks from ESO like now I miss it! I have such good memories exploring, questing and having fun with friends or total strangers cause the community is great too.

Yes, I love it ... I am just concerned about the behavior of so many people.... it looks like a new generation is born... too much frustration and aggressive attitude ... This forum is a good picture ... Maybe I'm too old ...

Lysette · April 2020

Quelios wrote: »

Loves_guars wrote: »

Even when I take breaks from ESO like now I miss it! I have such good memories exploring, questing and having fun with friends or total strangers cause the community is great too.

Yes, I love it ... I am just concerned about the behavior of so many people.... it looks like a new generation is born... too much frustration and aggressive attitude ... This forum is a good picture ... Maybe I'm too old ...

Well, if they cannot play the game in their preferred play style, but should be able to, because it was advertised like it, then it is understandable, that they are not happy with the situation, especially because that is an ongoing issue for years. i think they have a reason to complain loudly - it will not help in the end, but they still have a point, the game should work like advertised.

Dusk_Coven · April 2020

ESO is the game where the devs let players exploit everything they don't want to fix. And let exploiters demand that they play style be accommodated.
Nothing they've done is at all innovative -- in fact their various missteps show they didn't do their research and just make the mistakes other games made before. All they have is story and lore. If they flub that they're finished. It's too bad they don't focus on that core competency.

Iluvrien · April 2020

Will I always remember it? Yes, probably. Most of that may even be positive.

Does that make ESO a masterpiece? Nope.

ESO is generally (performance issues aside) pretty good at what it sets out to do for me. I am PvE only, non-competitive. So that means that mostly what I am hear for is story/lorey aspects of the game. ESO has some excellent stories, some great characters, and some stunning locales. However, the best examples of these shine out because, sadly, there are some items in each category that are either either not well thought out, or just plain dull.

The stories are great. But there are stories that no longer make sense if you approach a village from a different direction (finding a certain shrine in Bangkorai before entering the village it pertains to, for example) or if you are certain that your character wouldn't just go along with certain NPC actions but aren't given any choices. If you agree with the flow of a particular story, then everything feels fine. If not? It tends to feel railroady. This is even more the case since One Tamriel.

Some of the characters are genuinely interesting. Some of them are amusing. Some of them are characters that are caricatures of fantasy tropes... and are self-aware enough to tip a wink, and some humour, towards that. But most feel... shallow, whether it is because they are store NPCs that nobody though to add a real background to, or to quest NPCs that run out of dialogue as soon as you don't need them anymore, there is a depth that could have been added here. And in many cases it wasn't.

Some of the locales are just, plain, great. I am consistently taken aback when I come to new areas and see new things. The area design teams have definitely upped their game as the game matured and more fantastic assets were added. So much so that sometimes I do wish a second pass could be taken to places I am especially fond of (Deshaan I am looking at you). However, even in comparatively recent chapters there is, again, a sense of missing depth. Balmora and Ald'ruhn are iconic locations that loved, the more I interacted with them in TES III. It was a joy to see them back in game in Morrowind (the chapter).

A quick look at the Balmora map on UESP lists 42 possible interactable (mostly enterable) locations.
In ESO I estimate about 14 interactable locations (some outside, not including guild stores) and 6 locked doors. 2 locations are locked after quests.

... and I say this as someone who loves how Balmora looks in ESO, it is one of my favourite locations in the whole game.

What about Ald'ruhn... another location I love, even down to the Ashy miasma that gives it atmosphere. TES III: 28 interactable locations, and that is counting Skar as a single item. In ESO, about 14. And that is counting each tent as a different building. 2 of which are locked after quest completion. Including Skar. Again, an amazing place that makes me so happy to visit, that I think the designers did a really good job on.

But in both of these cases, and many others, there is depth that is missing. Does that have something to do with the over 700 years between the time of ESO (2E 583) and the time of Morrowind (3E 427)? Absolutely. The developers even integrate these changes (e.g. Ashland camp to Great House settlement for Ald'ruhn). Should those developments be mirrored in the depth of interaction and storytelling available in these areas? I really don't think so.

All of the above was my opinion. As is all that is to follow.

ESO is combat-centric. "Play as you want" always had the rider that you were doing so as one character out of thousands, in a setting that imported as many of the classic MMO components was would make it saleable to consumers. I avidly read interviews with most of the (at that time) senior design staff. I couldn't wait for ESO to come. I loved what I saw about the sub-only model, the lack of pay-gates and crass monetisation, impactful crafting, and play as you want...

... so on the first day of PC early access I logged in. My first character intended to be a bookish Dunmer enchanter who made his living through his craft and made his way through the world by travelling between settlements, learning his trade and occasionally exploring a ruin to seek the secrets therein. What did I get? Kill all of these things. If you are lucky they will drop runes. Each one will give you a tiny amount of crafting XP when deconned. Or, collected these 3 different kinds of rune harvesting locations which show up in random locations in the world. Make runes. After the first time you translate a rune, all future uses will give you similarly miniscule amounts of crafting XP. Since then we've gotten writs, simplified harvesting, lowered xp requirements, devalued crafting... and jewelry crafting and furnishings.

I've had fun with a lot of ESO over the last 6 years. I still enjoy it. I play it every day. But let's not kid ourselves, as good as it sometimes is, it is not a masterpiece. It has been hamstrung by all sorts of factors. Many, if not most, are not the fault of individual devs. However, this place could absolutely be so much more than it is.