The vampire cost increase is good because....

Nemesis7884 · April 2020

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

SickleCider · April 2020

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sold on the way they're going about things. The vampire skills don't represent a complete toolkit, to me, which I think is a major problem if there are going to be such severe penalties against using your other skills. You might be able to mitigate this at Stage 1, but I don't know why anyone would rank up any further.

Neoealth · April 2020

I have no opinion on it yet. Will just wait and see how it feels when I play the new vampire.

Lintashi · April 2020

That just means, that you cannot play as vampire healer or vampire tank. If you can take non-vamp, why you would take gimp with 20% cost increase and+ increased fire damage anywhere?

Kel · April 2020

Lintashi wrote: »

That just means, that you cannot play as vampire healer or vampire tank. If you can take non-vamp, why you would take gimp with 20% cost increase and+ increased fire damage anywhere?

You wouldn't.
Tanking as a vampire is definitely over if these changes go live.

They really didn't think things all the way through.

They need to choose either extra fire damage, OR, extra cost increase....not BOTH. If they want both, those numbers definitely need toned down. Vampire is definitely not so OP that either of those heavy drawbacks are justified.

XomRhoK · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Versispellis wrote: »

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sold on the way they're going about things. The vampire skills don't represent a complete toolkit, to me, which I think is a major problem if there are going to be such severe penalties against using your other skills. You might be able to mitigate this at Stage 1, but I don't know why anyone would rank up any further.

At the beginning I thought as Nemesis, but after they introduced 3D model for Blood Scion and seems have no intention to change it i started to change my mind, at least regarding ultimates. 40% for ultimate is alot, so you play as cow on steroids or you suffer.
And agree with Versispellis, now vampire skill line is so bad, they reduced damage of old skills by 50%, so now vampires have one heal, one heal/escape, mass stun, buff and only one skill to do damage, no real AoE, no DoT. Werewolfs have all what they need in their skill line, vampires don't. In current state of skill line, cost increase for other skill lines is more and more doubtful for me.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2020

Vampirism is a BIG deal, you cannot just become one and ignore it.

It is punishing but at least it will force Vampires to play as Vampires, now if only they did something for Werewolves, maybe have something which would force them into Beast Form, maybe have a chance to transform at night or have some Werewolf Hunter enemies use magic to force you into Beast Form against your will kind of like that quest in Glenumbra.

Also I was on the PTS with a stage 4 Vampire and I had no issue with sustaining, maybe you just don't know how to play the game properly

Belyar · April 2020

People tend to ignore the fact that your ultimate mitigates all the downsides you get while it also gives a massive boost to your dps and tankyness, resources as well.

emilyhyoyeon · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

The increased nonvamp ability cost isn't lore friendly in itself though, either. There should be drawbacks, and vamp should not used for minmaxing, but increased nonvamp ability cost is not appropriate

RedReign · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Forcing players to dedicate themselves to only being a vampire is objectively bad. Its a support set with only 1 direct damage attack.

Nemesis7884 · April 2020

Lintashi wrote: »

That just means, that you cannot play as vampire healer or vampire tank. If you can take non-vamp, why you would take gimp with 20% cost increase and+ increased fire damage anywhere?

you also dont play a werewolf healer or tank i dont see anyone complaining

Nemesis7884 · April 2020

RedReign wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Forcing players to dedicate themselves to only being a vampire is objectively bad. Its a support set with only 1 direct damage attack.

what is objectively bad bland and boring is everyone can just be everything all the time and just using the best of anything without ever dedicating to one theme with no drawbacks... bland boring and not creative

RedReign · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

RedReign wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Forcing players to dedicate themselves to only being a vampire is objectively bad. Its a support set with only 1 direct damage attack.

what is objectively bad bland and boring is everyone can just be everything all the time and just using the best of anything without ever dedicating to one theme with no drawbacks... bland boring and not creative

You wanting to screw people over if they don't play the way you do doesn't make it a good idea

TX12001rwb17_ESO · April 2020

RedReign wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Forcing players to dedicate themselves to only being a vampire is objectively bad. Its a support set with only 1 direct damage attack.

Forcing players to play a specific role in a Role-Playing Game is bad you say...

RedReign · April 2020

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

RedReign wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

(to normal skills on stage 4) it forces people to either dedicate themselves to being a vampire or not - same as with werewolves... no just slapping on some passive benefits without truly being living as a vampire and also dedicating a character / rping to it and that is GOOD

less non lore friendly shallow min maxing and more dedication to a theme that comes with benefits and drawbacks

Forcing players to dedicate themselves to only being a vampire is objectively bad. Its a support set with only 1 direct damage attack.

Forcing players to play a specific role in a Role-Playing Game is bad you say...

Forcing players to play as a support class with no damage abilities is bad, yes. Especially a game where the tag line for marketing is "Play how you want" and has been for 6 years.

MartiniDaniels · April 2020

I agree. All my competitive characters became vampires eventually and in those cases when there is too much fire damage you can always drop to stage 1 by few bloody maras. It was wrong that in PVE de-facto you MUST be a vampire, or you will be in disadvantage. For PVP downsides were bigger and more noticeable, but still being a vampire were given more benefits then downsides, especially if you avoided stage 4.

Paradisius · April 2020

While I agree that it does do the intended job that the devs seem to want (Vampire detriments that could not be ignored) I will not pretend its current iteration is perfect, just that it works. Such suggestions for work arounds I've both seen and thought about is to either: change the progression to 0/5/10/15 as to ensure those who just want to stay stage 1 vampire will do so at no normal ability cost, but will only have access to Dark Stalker passive and will have higher cost vampiric abilities (which makes sense as a stage 1 vampire). Other more lore friendly options is to kick up the flame damage, something akin to 10%/20%/30%/40%. This makes sense for a vampire, and is a noticeable detriment that is hard to ignore, it would make the player think twice before going to stage 4 and keeping it there. Or a rather interesting one Ive seen said by @ShadowHvo is to change the ability cost increase to a reduction of healing recieved. I would think to pin the values at 10/15/20/25% But we'll see what they settle on as the PTS continues

SickleCider · April 2020

Paradisius wrote: »

While I agree that it does do the intended job that the devs seem to want (Vampire detriments that could not be ignored) I will not pretend its current iteration is perfect, just that it works. Such suggestions for work arounds I've both seen and thought about is to either: change the progression to 0/5/10/15 as to ensure those who just want to stay stage 1 vampire will do so at no normal ability cost, but will only have access to Dark Stalker passive and will have higher cost vampiric abilities (which makes sense as a stage 1 vampire). Other more lore friendly options is to kick up the flame damage, something akin to 10%/20%/30%/40%. This makes sense for a vampire, and is a noticeable detriment that is hard to ignore, it would make the player think twice before going to stage 4 and keeping it there. Or a rather interesting one Ive seen said by @ShadowHvo is to change the ability cost increase to a reduction of healing recieved. I would think to pin the values at 10/15/20/25% But we'll see what they settle on as the PTS continues

I like all of these ideas. They're still noticeable detriments but functionally workable.

Kel · April 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

That just means, that you cannot play as vampire healer or vampire tank. If you can take non-vamp, why you would take gimp with 20% cost increase and+ increased fire damage anywhere?

you also dont play a werewolf healer or tank i dont see anyone complaining

You also can ONLY use werewolf skills as a werewolf. It's not like you can use a taunt as a werewolf, but you CAN as a vampire.

Your argument makes zero sense. They aren't even equivalent skill lines.😒

Nemesis7884 · April 2020

Kel wrote: »

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Lintashi wrote: »

That just means, that you cannot play as vampire healer or vampire tank. If you can take non-vamp, why you would take gimp with 20% cost increase and+ increased fire damage anywhere?

you also dont play a werewolf healer or tank i dont see anyone complaining

You also can ONLY use werewolf skills as a werewolf. It's not like you can use a taunt as a werewolf, but you CAN as a vampire.

Your argument makes zero sense. They aren't even equivalent skill lines.😒

to say my argumentation makes 0 sense is simply non acceptance not because it makes 0 sense

you can also slot a tank skill as a healer if you want, are you going to do that?

LeHarrt91 · April 2020

Sure but a werewolf can still go into Human form and have not drawbacks. 20% increase 100% of the time is not good gameplay or build diversity.

Thevampirenight · April 2020

I think it would best if they reduced it to 10% at Stage 4 instead of 20% and reduce the cost weakness.
Maybe reducing the Vampire ability cost decrease to 20% at Stage four.
To Balance it out better and to make it not as bad. As its clear they intend this weakness to stay but it shouldn't be as great of a weakness as it is and I do think they should reduce it that way players will still be able to run vampire abilties or other abilties if they choose.

darthgummibear_ESO · April 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I think it would best if they reduced it to 10% at Stage 4 instead of 20% and reduce the cost weakness.
Maybe reducing the Vampire ability cost decrease to 20% at Stage four.
To Balance it out better and to make it not as bad. As its clear they intend this weakness to stay but it shouldn't be as great of a weakness as it is and I do think they should reduce it that way players will still be able to run vampire abilties or other abilties if they choose.

This. Even without the 20% cost deficit everything already costs more because vamps lost the 10% resource regen passive...adding a 20% cost increase on top of that is complete overkill.

Thevampirenight · April 2020

The vampire cost increase is bad because....
Fixed the title for you.

Its to much, and like someone just posted, with another thread. Health recovery and fire is more then enough of a draw back not to mention fighters guild and prismatic.
As it is being a vampire does have a lot of weaknesses to it and this just adds to them. So while some might like that change but given the way players do thinks it will just be like it is on live if they do play vampire they won't feed. They won't because there is no point because the ability cost weakness is just to much to be of much benefit. So Stage one becomes the new Stage Four.

People won't use all that cool feeding, its like whats the point in playing as a vampire when doing so is to costly and not worth it. I do think this might happen if they allow it to go like it is. They need to reduce that weakness or remove it.
That is how I feel about this.
Its just to punishing with all the other drawbacks they have.

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

I think it would best if they reduced it to 10% at Stage 4 instead of 20% and reduce the cost weakness.
Maybe reducing the Vampire ability cost decrease to 20% at Stage four.
To Balance it out better and to make it not as bad. As its clear they intend this weakness to stay but it shouldn't be as great of a weakness as it is and I do think they should reduce it that way players will still be able to run vampire abilties or other abilties if they choose.

This. Even without the 20% cost deficit everything already costs more because vamps lost the 10% resource regen passive...adding a 20% cost increase on top of that is complete overkill.

Yep its exactly what it is basically.

xxthir13enxx · April 2020

Only ESO can release new vampire content that leads to vast amount of players hitting the Undo button on vampirism they’ve had for years...

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · April 2020

Its not the same as werewolf. Werewolf can choose when and where they want to take on the penalties and perks of being a werewolf, they just need to tap a button.

Vampires are stuck with their drawbacks enabled 100% of the time.

ZOS_Volpe · April 2020

Greetings,

We've had to remove a few non-constructive and baiting comments. Please remember that while it’s alright to disagree or even debate with each other, provoking conflict, baiting, inciting, mocking, etc. is never acceptable on our forums.

LeHarrt91 · April 2020

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Its not the same as werewolf. Werewolf can choose when and where they want to take on the penalties and perks of being a werewolf, they just need to tap a button.

Vampires are stuck with their drawbacks enabled 100% of the time.

Hmm, add the non vamp penalty only to the Ulti 'while transformed'?

wild_kmacdb16_ESO · April 2020

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

wild_kmacdb16_ESO wrote: »

Its not the same as werewolf. Werewolf can choose when and where they want to take on the penalties and perks of being a werewolf, they just need to tap a button.

Vampires are stuck with their drawbacks enabled 100% of the time.

Hmm, add the non vamp penalty only to the Ulti 'while transformed'?

If their goal is to emulate the werewolf, perhaps have it so you need to have a vampire ability slotted before any of the vampire skill line's passives & penalties take effect. No vampire abilities on your toolbar means you are temporarily 'repressing' your vampire nature or something.

Or put that aside for a minute and instead, have it so vampires start with a 0% non-vamp penalty and each use of a non-vamp skill increases it by 1%, maxing out at the 20% now - using a vampire ability resets or significantly reduces it.

This is me just spitballing; im sure ZOS can do better?

Deathlord92 · April 2020

I’m going to have to disagree I don’t see anything good about the 20% cost increase. What about us stamina mains I love pvp but i am also a role player I love playing as a vampire in previous elder scrolls games I have always played a vampire cutthroat and it’s not just stamina mains who will suffer what about tanks healers who like being a vampire and as many have mentioned there isn’t enough in the toolkit to go full vampire so even mag dps will struggle.

Canned_Apples · April 2020

20% increase wouldn’t be so bad if vampires had everything in their kit that WWs have.
As it stands now, Unlike WWs, Vampires do not get a burst heal, they do not get a fracture, they do not get brutality, they do not get courage, they do not get major prophecy, etc. etc. etc.

Guess you can try to perma block until you can use your bone Goliath.

Cost increase is ridiculous.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they added one of those new p2w items to offset the cost increase.