So, is everyone going to ignore Battle Spirit changes which is uncalled for?

Muskrap · April 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

Adjusting battle spirit is not the solution lol Healing pre scalebreaker was fine. The only problems were when you came across groups and the amount of cross healing that happened. Which is where they should start nerfing. Otherwise, The players that get hit the most are solo players and No CP players. But nerfing all healing recieved by 20% is definitely a bad call

Kadoin · April 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Can someone explain to me why all of healing needed to be nerfed when only these places healing was op:

1. HoTs
2. Sets that also ironically provide HoTs
3. HP% healing that will remain less affected than heals that required stat investment.

Really ZOS lost the plot...

So you’re saying they should have nerfed rapid regen and vigor instead?

Wasn't that what they buffed

Now, nightblade healing will be even more of a joke, Honor the Dead that wasn't buffed getting another nerf, obsidian shard, etc...

It's literally nerfing every heal because they changed two skills and won't nerf heal sets like Bogdan, Hist, Hiti, etc.

Then again, it won't matter because all players will do is stack even more damage reduction and use more damage avoidance to make the disparity between healing and no-healing even greater since self-healing will be even less useful. All the while pushing power even more towards HP% heals -- you cannot make up how bad the change is, not just on paper, even in reality.

technohic · April 2020

Iskiab wrote: »

What I like about this change is it might mean there’s no need to transmute a pvp set. A mag class could wear mother’s sorrow and NMA and do okay.. maybe. Devil’s in the details.

Glad that works out for them, but again they are going to screw PVPers who have all impen by nerfing the trait. Going to nerf crit resist sets as well.

Beardimus · April 2020

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Defence is too strong right now, heal bot templars bursting back up. Let's try it and see before we comment as I don't think it's a bad thing.

@Beardimus
*scratches head*
I don't see how resistance/defence is too strong atm. Please enlighten me.
Also, is the heal bot templar in a group/pug/zerg ball? If so, it is essentially a group vs group matter. 'Templar heal bots' are only capable of healing, I'm sure their dmg isn't too strong either since most good endgame Templar healers I know use any % buff (that includes major and minor buffs) to heals and resistances wherever that may come from.
Also, you're a Sorc pet healer. Your heals are definitely huge to start with so 20% healing nerf will definitely affect you adversely.

If anything, CP should be looked at. Or maybe the Alliance War heal buff passive as a start. Not a mindless blanket nerf to heals across the board.

Defence is strong right now. As individual players it's easy to burst back to an almost full bar. Agreed they can be trolling players that are better off ignored, but honnestly it's a good thing on that front.

And yes am a pet sorc healer when in a group, again I think the nerf is manageable.

Personally I think this is better approach, reduce the impact to OP self heals, reduce the ball groups.

The only oddity is the base crit resist. Whilst I relish that and despise running full Impen on a sorc (needed since the ward nerf) it does take the edge of burst as many players underspec on court resist particular in noCP.

Now following on from that point, it means more crit resist thus less burst. And burst is what kills and out paces heals.

Honnestly I think heals needed nerfing and I'm happy with how they gone about it. Happy enough to wait and see.

technohic · April 2020

Everyone heals themselves so how is a nerf across the board affect anything? The person who heals themselves more will still come out ahead. Meanwhile; they all fall behind to groups criss healing as they are already overhealing.

Suligost · April 2020

I support further healing nerf, it wont be much of a change for people relying on multiple healing abilities but it will hurt player that get full hp from one. About Crit res, Im not that shure... does rly crits are so absurd in no CP? I dont think so, but if you get lucky they make a change.

SigmarusWyrmborn · April 2020

I welcome these changes for it will be a gankers paradise :-) I have learned to deal with this tanky high weapon BRP healing meta

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Muskrap wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

Adjusting battle spirit is not the solution lol Healing pre scalebreaker was fine. The only problems were when you came across groups and the amount of cross healing that happened. Which is where they should start nerfing. Otherwise, The players that get hit the most are solo players and No CP players. But nerfing all healing recieved by 20% is definitely a bad call

@Muskrap
Fully agree with you. Players with weak heals will be affected the most and they're easily the majority of the players in the game. They'll definitely complain for more nerfs in the future.

Beardimus wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Defence is too strong right now, heal bot templars bursting back up. Let's try it and see before we comment as I don't think it's a bad thing.

@Beardimus
*scratches head*
I don't see how resistance/defence is too strong atm. Please enlighten me.
Also, is the heal bot templar in a group/pug/zerg ball? If so, it is essentially a group vs group matter. 'Templar heal bots' are only capable of healing, I'm sure their dmg isn't too strong either since most good endgame Templar healers I know use any % buff (that includes major and minor buffs) to heals and resistances wherever that may come from.
Also, you're a Sorc pet healer. Your heals are definitely huge to start with so 20% healing nerf will definitely affect you adversely.

If anything, CP should be looked at. Or maybe the Alliance War heal buff passive as a start. Not a mindless blanket nerf to heals across the board.

Defence is strong right now. As individual players it's easy to burst back to an almost full bar. Agreed they can be trolling players that are better off ignored, but honnestly it's a good thing on that front.

And yes am a pet sorc healer when in a group, again I think the nerf is manageable.

Personally I think this is better approach, reduce the impact to OP self heals, reduce the ball groups.

The only oddity is the base crit resist. Whilst I relish that and despise running full Impen on a sorc (needed since the ward nerf) it does take the edge of burst as many players underspec on court resist particular in noCP.

Now following on from that point, it means more crit resist thus less burst. And burst is what kills and out paces heals.

Honnestly I think heals needed nerfing and I'm happy with how they gone about it. Happy enough to wait and see.

@Beardimus
All due respect to you, dear Emperor. But I still fail to see how defence is strong now just because heals are strong. Sometimes, players just need to get worn down before they can be killed. And these type of players make up a small section of the PvP community. The overwhelming majority however don't even have the firepower to have large heals to begin with.

Also, when you're in a group, the healing nerfs are obviously going to go unnoticed. I'm talking about solo and small scale situations especially in No CP environment.

Beardimus · April 2020

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

Adjusting battle spirit is not the solution lol Healing pre scalebreaker was fine. The only problems were when you came across groups and the amount of cross healing that happened. Which is where they should start nerfing. Otherwise, The players that get hit the most are solo players and No CP players. But nerfing all healing recieved by 20% is definitely a bad call

@Muskrap
Fully agree with you. Players with weak heals will be affected the most and they're easily the majority of the players in the game. They'll definitely complain for more nerfs in the future.

Beardimus wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Defence is too strong right now, heal bot templars bursting back up. Let's try it and see before we comment as I don't think it's a bad thing.

@Beardimus
*scratches head*
I don't see how resistance/defence is too strong atm. Please enlighten me.
Also, is the heal bot templar in a group/pug/zerg ball? If so, it is essentially a group vs group matter. 'Templar heal bots' are only capable of healing, I'm sure their dmg isn't too strong either since most good endgame Templar healers I know use any % buff (that includes major and minor buffs) to heals and resistances wherever that may come from.
Also, you're a Sorc pet healer. Your heals are definitely huge to start with so 20% healing nerf will definitely affect you adversely.

If anything, CP should be looked at. Or maybe the Alliance War heal buff passive as a start. Not a mindless blanket nerf to heals across the board.

Defence is strong right now. As individual players it's easy to burst back to an almost full bar. Agreed they can be trolling players that are better off ignored, but honnestly it's a good thing on that front.

And yes am a pet sorc healer when in a group, again I think the nerf is manageable.

Personally I think this is better approach, reduce the impact to OP self heals, reduce the ball groups.

The only oddity is the base crit resist. Whilst I relish that and despise running full Impen on a sorc (needed since the ward nerf) it does take the edge of burst as many players underspec on court resist particular in noCP.

Now following on from that point, it means more crit resist thus less burst. And burst is what kills and out paces heals.

Honnestly I think heals needed nerfing and I'm happy with how they gone about it. Happy enough to wait and see.

@Beardimus
All due respect to you, dear Emperor. But I still fail to see how defence is strong now just because heals are strong. Sometimes, players just need to get worn down before they can be killed. And these type of players make up a small section of the PvP community. The overwhelming majority however don't even have the firepower to have large heals to begin with.

Also, when you're in a group, the healing nerfs are obviously going to go unnoticed. I'm talking about solo and small scale situations especially in No CP environment.

Interesting, as I play small scale, and in noCP (clearly you spotted that to make the Emperor joke.

Each to their own, where I'm at heals taking a nerf is not a bad thing (that's from a DD small scaler with regards to targets, and I'm happy with it as a healer on balance) I'm also happy with how they've done it.

Let's wait an see. Burst kills in noCP, remember base crit resist is being added...

What's your personal problem? Think you aren't going to survive? Or are you a healer? Templar by any chance or vigor spammer?

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Beardimus wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Muskrap wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

Adjusting battle spirit is not the solution lol Healing pre scalebreaker was fine. The only problems were when you came across groups and the amount of cross healing that happened. Which is where they should start nerfing. Otherwise, The players that get hit the most are solo players and No CP players. But nerfing all healing recieved by 20% is definitely a bad call

@Muskrap
Fully agree with you. Players with weak heals will be affected the most and they're easily the majority of the players in the game. They'll definitely complain for more nerfs in the future.

Beardimus wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Defence is too strong right now, heal bot templars bursting back up. Let's try it and see before we comment as I don't think it's a bad thing.

@Beardimus
*scratches head*
I don't see how resistance/defence is too strong atm. Please enlighten me.
Also, is the heal bot templar in a group/pug/zerg ball? If so, it is essentially a group vs group matter. 'Templar heal bots' are only capable of healing, I'm sure their dmg isn't too strong either since most good endgame Templar healers I know use any % buff (that includes major and minor buffs) to heals and resistances wherever that may come from.
Also, you're a Sorc pet healer. Your heals are definitely huge to start with so 20% healing nerf will definitely affect you adversely.

If anything, CP should be looked at. Or maybe the Alliance War heal buff passive as a start. Not a mindless blanket nerf to heals across the board.

Defence is strong right now. As individual players it's easy to burst back to an almost full bar. Agreed they can be trolling players that are better off ignored, but honnestly it's a good thing on that front.

And yes am a pet sorc healer when in a group, again I think the nerf is manageable.

Personally I think this is better approach, reduce the impact to OP self heals, reduce the ball groups.

The only oddity is the base crit resist. Whilst I relish that and despise running full Impen on a sorc (needed since the ward nerf) it does take the edge of burst as many players underspec on court resist particular in noCP.

Now following on from that point, it means more crit resist thus less burst. And burst is what kills and out paces heals.

Honnestly I think heals needed nerfing and I'm happy with how they gone about it. Happy enough to wait and see.

@Beardimus
All due respect to you, dear Emperor. But I still fail to see how defence is strong now just because heals are strong. Sometimes, players just need to get worn down before they can be killed. And these type of players make up a small section of the PvP community. The overwhelming majority however don't even have the firepower to have large heals to begin with.

Also, when you're in a group, the healing nerfs are obviously going to go unnoticed. I'm talking about solo and small scale situations especially in No CP environment.

Interesting, as I play small scale, and in noCP (clearly you spotted that to make the Emperor joke.

Each to their own, where I'm at heals taking a nerf is not a bad thing (that's from a DD small scaler with regards to targets, and I'm happy with it as a healer on balance) I'm also happy with how they've done it.

Let's wait an see. Burst kills in noCP, remember base crit resist is being added...

What's your personal problem? Think you aren't going to survive? Or are you a healer? Templar by any chance or vigor spammer?

@Beardimus
This is the reason why the community is so toxic.
Do you not realise I'm not even being sarcastic or condescending towards you? You're an EP, I'm an EP. I have a sense of pride and respect whenever I come across an EP Emp (yes I'm a little bit of a nerd when it comes to the Alliance War). So that was not in any way trying to be demeaning. Apologies if it didn't give you that impression.

However back to the topic. I, again, genuinely don't see how defence is strong just because heals are. People use a different combination of % mitigation and resist buffs to effectively soak up your incoming dmg while they heal themselves on their defensive rotation. It's not unheard of.

I agree, we can wait and see how the PTS turns out. But I am hoping that those proposed changes won't go to Live because the future will only spell "more nerfs" if you let it since an overwhelming majority of players are low APM players (again, aka bad players). After this healing nerf, they'll look to cry more nerfs on the damage front because 'damage is too strong and my healing (nerfed) is too low'.
It's a never ending cycle which we have seen before, as I'm sure you have, when Battle Spirit debuff to healing/dmg etc was only 25% back then all those years back. The nerf cycle was damning.

robpr · April 2020

Templar standing in his circle and spamming sweeps/jabs +/- vigor/regen will not be affected that much. Only classes that will suffer will be those with high cost direct burst heals, like DK Coag.

Also why heal decrease from 50 to 60% results in 20% healing reduction you are speaking of?

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

robpr wrote: »

Templar standing in his circle and spamming sweeps/jabs +/- vigor/regen will not be affected that much. Only classes that will suffer will be those with high cost direct burst heals, like DK Coag.

Also why heal decrease from 50 to 60% results in 20% healing reduction you are speaking of?

@robpr
While I agree with your statement about DK Coag, Templars will also feel it. A magplar's BoL is just as expensive as DK magicka-cost-wise factoring in all the passives just as an example.

So heals are reduced effectively by 20% by the following:
Suppose your heal tooltip is 10k in PVE, then:
50% reduction (current Battle Spirit debuff) = 5k
60% reduction (proposed Battle Spirit debuff) = 4k

4/5=0.8, an effective reduction of 20%.

Tolino · April 2020

robpr wrote: »

Templar standing in his circle and spamming sweeps/jabs +/- vigor/regen will not be affected that much. Only classes that will suffer will be those with high cost direct burst heals, like DK Coag.

Also why heal decrease from 50 to 60% results in 20% healing reduction you are speaking of?

Whitout battelspirit: 10k heal
Battelspirit(50%): 5k heal
Battelspirit(60%): 4k heal
4k heal is 20% less than 5k

5cript · April 2020

As a battleground player, I am confused about all the hate about this change.
I suggested something like this a long time ago.

But then I changed my mind to make it more of a heal from ally nerf, not self heal nerf.
but flag games filled with self healing tanks is a disease.
Blockcasting self heal templer annoys the *** out of me.
A templar heal ult that makes the entire team almost unkillable...

BGs with healer in the team get auto win.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

@5cript
Actually, there's not been any single instance in high MMR BG where those tanks are unkillable. Yes, it is super damn hard to take them down but they have built themselves for that role (heals & tank durability) and in no way are they lethal, and definitely killable. I say the tank has built it well for that sole purpose. The beauty with no-CP is that no one is unkillable.

5cript wrote: »

(...)
BGs with healer in the team get auto win.

That's the crux right there. In light of that, why don't we nerf healing received from others as suggested in the 1st post instead of the blanket nerf to heals outright? At least it preserves solo play while effectively hurting zergs and ball groups by a respectable amount. Small scale no-CP Cyro and BGs will have their healing powers toned down too and that'll take care of your concerns in BG for teams that run with healers.

D3N7157 · April 2020

I hope they will nerf some healing skills further along that change especially honor the dead and rememberance, 15% less healing done would be super healthy for the game with new battle spirit changes

D3N7157 · April 2020

Also cap amount of radiating regenerations you can have active at a time to two, that would end mutagen stacking zergs career

iTzStevey · April 2020

I think this was meant to target classes like Necro and warden specifically. However it will do the EXACT opposite, you may aswell level a stamden or stamcro now if you plan to carry on playing this pile of lag. They're the only one that'll be able to heal properly(and magplar ofc).

Luckylancer · April 2020

If I were devs that want to promote casual gameplay, I would laugh at OPs solution. It is soo funy. LoL. I am getting paid for promoting casuals and OP tell me how to nerf casual healing while keep elite healing untouched.

I like shorter combats so I like this idea of nerf. But I need to see it in practice for my final desicions.

All magtoon may drift to shields. Stam>mag so this will close the gap. I will use shield breaker.

Impen nerf and baseline crit resist wont change anything significantly if final number is same for impen users. New non-impen users will cause a slight rise in crit builds. So impen users will have even more midigation!

Fengrush says: having a healer in BG is big advantage in team. Look, I dealth this much damsge and it is healed right away. healing nerf was asked for in this game

Raudgrani · April 2020

It could be fun. For once I'm not all negative. Giving us basically a Impregnable Armor for free as we enter Cyrodiil is a nice way to make a little more diverse builds possible, most of all it will let the casual Relequen/Lokkestiiz wearing weekend PVE'ers survive more than one hit.

But I don't know if you realize how insanely powerful builds you will be able to get if this comes through. Problems with "volatile healing" will soon be forgotten. With the new vampire berserker kind of toggle more, sets like Titanborn and Balorgh - say hi to tanky bomber and sniper builds in Divines gear.

Daffen · April 2020

This change is going to reduce the effectiveness of some of the pvp troll tanks that are almost unkillable. I have a permablock tank build and it basiacally consists of stacking as much healing as possible, it is also possible to stack as much mitigation as possible but its not as effective as stacking healing. (stacking healing beeing using battalion defender + hist sap, mitigation beeing ironblood + hist sap)

xXMeowMeowXx · April 2020

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Excerpt from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/update-26-combat-preview/p1

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

I don't know about you guys/gals but the above looks, smells and sounds like ZOS again catering to players with low APM a.k.a bad players, who don't even want to spend miniscule amount of time to theorycraft gearsets to better their stats by improving on their weaknesses (simple SWOT analysis anyone?)? Do you realise that it's a 20% HEALING NERF in PvP compared to what we have now? I play in no-CP and the heals are already not too 'volatile' to start with. If you're arguing about ball groups, then large heals are to be expected and players must do well to counter groups with organised play.

Let's suppose if these changes to Battle Spirit go into Live. Do you think it's going to solve the 'volatility' of heals (I call BS for @ZOS_BrianWheeler's reasoning) players have ie. well-geared players (WG) vs. poorly-geared players (PG)? Answer is a definite NO. What it will do is nerf everyone's heals to a large degree (20% nerf!) till those PG players can't even cope to go around Cyro/BGs with at least a fighting chance to survive.

Just please @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert, do not go through with the Battle Spirit changes, please reconsider. It will not serve the whole PvP community well especially new and PG PvP-centric players. Feeling the brunt of the nerf, I'm sure the uninstall button/New World MMO is going to sound more appealing to them. Do not mess this up, ZOS.

EDIT:
Potential alternatives to the healing nerfs:
1. Limiting the number of cross heals or reduce the amount of heals by x% a player can receive from 'foreign' heal sources (ie. anything other than self-initiated heals) as others have mentioned in this thread. Maybe a limit to how many can be stacked on a player too. That will nerf zergs and ball groups effectively since there's only so much heals a player can receive.

2. CP adjustments - Disable CP PvP. Make PvP strictly a No-CP affair. That way, a huge aspect of PvE will be left separately to that of PvP.

Yh he could of said, “Hey Gang !! We don’t care about the servers and the games performance issues that have affected PvP over the years. Our plan is to keep the money rolling in, rather than fixing the game.

Which is why we decided to cater to the nerflings and push away more long term players and top end players too....”

Bah Bah Boop~

xaraan · April 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

I think the issue is that sometimes we see these movements to change something based on some streamers and therefor fans of streamers calling for it constantly. It reminds me stuff like in the real world like the tea part movement or current back to work movement that are made to look community driven, but actually driven by wealthy individuals. Weird comparison I know, but just saying I don't think it's a true community driven request, I think it's driven by a few individuals that can get more attention behind their view than others.

I do not think the game is in need of a blanket nerf like this. Personally I think battle spirit should be used to create a minor version of soft caps. Not like they used to be at launch, but minor version. If you queue into Cyro with a 20K health build, then you get the max health bonus, if I come in on a 50K health tank, then I'd get no health bonus by the time it was that high. Same for healing and shielding. Battle spirit has made some heals and shield totally irrelevant to even try and use in pvp and now we are seeing that debuff cranked up more because of a handful of other heals that are still strong, which will just add the problem. When I think again a sliding scale to change heals and shields could deal with strong versions of those abilities without making weak versions completely useless in pvp.

And let's not forget a lot of complaints in pvp are from players that don't know any better fighting players that do. There will always be players that will beat you in pvp no matter what you do to their build or class. Some can't accept that. But we can't let it influence balance more than we should.

This was a lot of my blabbing to end up not really disagreeing with you. But I just wanted to point out some of what I see in the bigger picture sometimes.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka · April 2020

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts as it violated our rules around baiting. Please be sure to keep discussions civil and constructive. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Luckylancer wrote: »

If I were devs that want to promote casual gameplay, I would laugh at OPs solution. It is soo funy. LoL. I am getting paid for promoting casuals and OP tell me how to nerf casual healing while keep elite healing untouched.

I like shorter combats so I like this idea of nerf. But I need to see it in practice for my final desicions.

All magtoon may drift to shields. Stam>mag so this will close the gap. I will use shield breaker.

Impen nerf and baseline crit resist wont change anything significantly if final number is same for impen users. New non-impen users will cause a slight rise in crit builds. So impen users will have even more midigation!

Fengrush says: having a healer in BG is big advantage in team. Look, I dealth this much damsge and it is healed right away. healing nerf was asked for in this game

@Luckylancer
I see you are a firm believer of an internet personality.
But how is self-heal 'elite healing'? News flash for you, everyone can do the same self-heal abilities, buffs etc as those 'elite healing'. It just takes attention to find those heals and buffs that compliment each other, anyone can do it. Even you. It's just a matter of doing it or not.
I'm only advocating protecting solo/small scale plays and hurting zergs and group ball plays. That's the reasoning behind my suggestion of reducing healing received from allies by a large amount since heals can be stacked from allies.

Here comes the contradiction in your statements though, you imply that self-heals are Elite/OP/overtuned etc and need some toning down but then you used Feng's statement about having healers in BG, which means you are receiving heals from your allies. Doesn't that mean healing received from allies are significantly more powerful than self-elite heals? What are you even on about?

Daffen wrote: »

This change is going to reduce the effectiveness of some of the pvp troll tanks that are almost unkillable. I have a permablock tank build and it basiacally consists of stacking as much healing as possible, it is also possible to stack as much mitigation as possible but its not as effective as stacking healing. (stacking healing beeing using battalion defender + hist sap, mitigation beeing ironblood + hist sap)

@Daffen
I have a strong feeling that you play PvP exclusively on CP. There has been no instance where there is an unkillable tank/healer in no-CP. Everyone is killable; especially in BG.
Even if your concern is troll tank builds, that actually poses a non-issue to the dynamics of PvP. Those unkillable tanks you mentioned deal absolutely 0 damage. And permablock in no-CP is unheard of these days since you absolutely can run out of resources. Period. Yes you'll be an extremely hard target to kill but it's absolutely and 100% not impossible to kill you off once you're worn down.

If you find those builds a concern still, then walk away from them since they're wet noodle anyways and they gain little to no AP doing so.

D3N7157 · April 2020

Healing in PVP is out of control (especially Magicka cross healing with radiating regeneration) the battle spirit adjustment is a good start to begin the nerfing of healing.

ArcVelarian · April 2020

The great thing about nerfing Healing through Battle Spirit is that tuning down or reverting the nerf would be fairly simple. Though it's my personal opinion that slightly buffing the DPS of Class Abilities could just as easily be a good solution.

Daffen · April 2020

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I have a strong feeling that you play PvP exclusively on CP. There has been no instance where there is an unkillable tank/healer in no-CP. Everyone is killable; especially in BG.
Even if your concern is troll tank builds, that actually poses a non-issue to the dynamics of PvP. Those unkillable tanks you mentioned deal absolutely 0 damage. And permablock in no-CP is unheard of these days since you absolutely can run out of resources. Period. Yes you'll be an extremely hard target to kill but it's absolutely and 100% not impossible to kill you off once you're worn down.

If you find those builds a concern still, then walk away from them since they're wet noodle anyways and they gain little to no AP doing so.

I do mostly play my tank in cp pvp, but i was also playing my tank in bg to see how it would perform. Yes i deal 0 damage, but when i queued for bg i picked a suitable gamemode. (capture the relic, chaosball) playing in these gamemodes gave my team almost a guaranteed win as in capture the relic i could stand and protect our relic or capture relic until they ran out of stamina to bash me. Chaosball went a bit different but i am able to hold the ball for quite a while before dying from the dot damage.

All i am saying is that these troll tank build will become less effective as they rely on quite alot of hps abilities and passives.

Sneaky-Snurr · April 2020

Daffen wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I have a strong feeling that you play PvP exclusively on CP. There has been no instance where there is an unkillable tank/healer in no-CP. Everyone is killable; especially in BG.
Even if your concern is troll tank builds, that actually poses a non-issue to the dynamics of PvP. Those unkillable tanks you mentioned deal absolutely 0 damage. And permablock in no-CP is unheard of these days since you absolutely can run out of resources. Period. Yes you'll be an extremely hard target to kill but it's absolutely and 100% not impossible to kill you off once you're worn down.

If you find those builds a concern still, then walk away from them since they're wet noodle anyways and they gain little to no AP doing so.

I do mostly play my tank in cp pvp, but i was also playing my tank in bg to see how it would perform. Yes i deal 0 damage, but when i queued for bg i picked a suitable gamemode. (capture the relic, chaosball) playing in these gamemodes gave my team almost a guaranteed win as in capture the relic i could stand and protect our relic or capture relic until they ran out of stamina to bash me. Chaosball went a bit different but i am able to hold the ball for quite a while before dying from the dot damage.

All i am saying is that these troll tank build will become less effective as they rely on quite alot of hps abilities and passives.

@Daffen
Noted. But to me, that sounds like a very well-built setup for a specific purpose. There's a reason why you said "suitable gamemode" which I agree with. People can build a char to suit a playstyle that serves its purpose in that environment (capture the relic in your case). However, something tells me that you're not up against mid/high-ranked BG players since you only play BG once in a while. Because if you are not dying in there, you are most likely matched up with lower ranked BG players/players who just want to get their dailies done.

But given any case, isn't that a successful build for that game mode? Hence, why the call for nerfs?
That's why I'm disagreeing with Brian's preliminary change with the healing nerf. At least your build is effectively trading dmg for very hardy tank setup which is perfectly fine. Everything has its opportunity costs right?

Starlight_Knight · April 2020

Healing in pvp is a joke, this is a much needed change, although its a really lazy one.