Critique this Stamplar No CP Build

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

I’m thinking of converting my Magplar (which I quite like but have played to death recently) into a Stamplar to run a specific build, and am wondering if anyone has any thoughts about it before I bother respeccing and trying to get the gear for it. Please bear in mind that, in terms of PvP, I play essentially exclusively no-CP (mostly BGs). Note that I have some questions at the bottom of this post.

Here’s the build I’m thinking of.

Race: Wood Elf

Mundus Stone: Serpent (Stamina Recovery)

Food: Dubious Cameran Throne (OR Artaeum Takeaway Broth)

Potion: Tri-Stat

Gear:

5x New Moon Acolyte
5x Knightmare
2x Bloodspawn OR 1x Pirate Skeleton & 1x Lord Warden
2x BRP DW

In an ideal world, I’d have one Knightmare armor piece on a big piece, the rest of the armor be medium NMA, and the monster set pieces would be 1 medium and 1 light.

The gear would all be impenetrable, though I probably wouldn’t bother transmuting a well-fitted piece. Ideally, everything would have tri-stat glyphs on it, but that’d take some time, and I’d start with the big pieces.

The jewelry glyphs would be 2x weapon damage and 1x stamina recovery OR stamina cost reduction (I think there’s a named Knightmare ring that has stamina cost reduction, which I wouldn’t bother switching). The jewelry will all be Robust (though I believe that will require transmutes for all of them).

The front bar would be a 2H. Ideally, probably a Maul, but I think a Greatsword would actually be similarly good, depending on what skills I run. Either way, the 2H would be Nirnhoned, with a weapon damage enchant. The back bar would ideally be daggers. The main hand would be infused with a shock damage enchant, and the off hand would be defending or powered. The enchant on the off hand weapon wouldn’t really matter.

I think it probably makes sense to front bar the Knightmare set, since you won’t be triggering the 5-piece when you’re on the back bar. But it might also be nice to avoid NMA’s cost increases on the back bar, so I could go either way on which one is front-barred.

Skills:

Front Bar:

Biting Jabs
Critical Rush
Rally
Camouflaged Hunter
Binding Javelin OR Turn Evil
Onslaught OR Crescent Sweep OR Dawnbreaker of Smiting

Back Bar:

Restoring Focus
Extended Ritual
Resolving Vigor
Quick Cloak
Repentance OR Power of the Light
Remembrance OR Reviving Barrier OR Temporal Guard OR Solar Prison

Concept:

The idea is basically that this should strike a good balance between damage, tankiness, sustain, mobility, and team utility.

NMA + Stamplar should naturally be quite a lot of damage. You’re looking at about 4600 weapon damage permanently in no-CP, along with 26-27k stamina, and between Critical Rush and Jabs, I believe the minor berserk from Camo Hunter should be up a ton. There are glass cannon builds with more damage, of course, but this should still be a lot.

Meanwhile, this build should be very tanky. With Bloodspawn triggered, it should have just over 27k spell resistance and just over 24k physical resistance, in no-CP. But the biggest thing would be the various sources of damage reduction. You’d get minor protection from Jabs, major protection from Quick Cloak and Remembrance, major evasion from Quick Cloak, and I believe Jabs will proc minor maim essentially constantly on everyone near you because of the Knightmare set. If all of those damage reductions are up at once, you’re looking at 59% additional damage reduction of AOE damage and 45% damage reduction for everything else. And that’s on top of 27k and 24k resistances. Meanwhile, Vigor, Rally, Extended Ritual, and Repentance should be a decent bit of healing.

The sustain should be good too, even despite the NMA cost increase. With Bloodspawn, the buffed up no-CP Stam recovery should be over 2,400 (even higher if I kept this character as a Vampire), and I’ve got Restoring Focus and will be using tri-stat potion. Repentance would provide even more sustain if I used it.

The mobility should be good. I’d have access to major expedition, an additional 10% extra movement speed after roll dodging, and a gap closer.

The team utility should also be good. Extended Ritual by itself is great team utility and healing, but also Knightmare will put minor maim on tons of people in BGs, which would be a big help to the entire team. If I used Repentance, there’d be some situational additional team healing, while if I used PotL instead then I’d be providing minor fracture/breach and minor sorcery. Unless I went for Temporal Guard, the back bar ultimate would also either be a fight reset for teammates or provide a powerful damage synergy and major maim.

Questions:

1. Is about 26-27k or so stamina too low?

I’m not super experienced with stamina builds, and magicka builds tend to have higher max magicka than stamina builds have stamina, so it’s hard to really compare. Obviously, the stamina would be higher in CP, but in no-CP it’d be 26-27k. Is that too low, even with over 2,400 stamina recovery, Restoring Focus, tri-stat potions, and possibly Repentance?

2. How do Stamplar players feel about Executioner?

I know Executioner is very strong. I die to it enough to know that. But it’s hard to find bar space for it, and I know that on a Magplar, I actually don’t really feel the need to have an execute, because Sweeps finishes people off just fine—at least in no-CP. And the only times on a Magplar I kind of wish I was running an execute is when people start dodge rolling constantly—because Jesus Beam can actually finish them—but Executioner is dodgeable. By analogy, it seems like I wouldn’t necessarily feel like I needed an execute on a Stamplar either, particularly as I’d also potentially have Onslaught to break down tanky people.

3. Would Selene’s work well on a Stamplar?

One other option is to scrap the defensive monster set, and run an offensive one. Grothdarr would be a decent option, but I am intrigued by Selene’s. I’ve never used it, but my understanding is that it procs on Jabs (and if so, then Jabs would proc it very quickly). Personally, I don’t really get hit by Selene’s that much, but I’m wondering if it maybe works well in conjunction with the snare on Jabs.

MartiniDaniels · April 2020

I played similar build a lot, it was pretty nice to fight outnumbered and quickly focus down players with weaker builds by onslaught burst, but against typical nord-nma-fury you will be heavily sitting on defense side, thus losing advantage of knightmare..

Solution to get more WD and fitting to bosmer - is to go with master's bow but unfortunately meta classes - warden and necro will just auto-purge it, so it's good only against DKs and magsorcs.

Using jabs as executioner - works good if target tries to block heal your onslaught, but if target is more mobile you will lose many kills, just because opponent dodged away on 5% HP...

Turn evil is best to land onslaught of course, but when game lags like hell it's hardly reliable stun. Also there are magsorcs. After juggling jav/toppling/turn evil, I think that TC is overall best choice. Yes, it is blocked very often and it locks you in weird animation and it will be much harder to land onslaught. But at least you can keep up on target jabbing it and without running out of stamina in process (like will happen if you spam crit rush).

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I played similar build a lot, it was pretty nice to fight outnumbered and quickly focus down players with weaker builds by onslaught burst, but against typical nord-nma-fury you will be heavily sitting on defense side, thus losing advantage of knightmare..

Solution to get more WD and fitting to bosmer - is to go with master's bow but unfortunately meta classes - warden and necro will just auto-purge it, so it's good only against DKs and magsorcs.

Using jabs as executioner - works good if target tries to block heal your onslaught, but if target is more mobile you will lose many kills, just because opponent dodged away on 5% HP...

Turn evil is best to land onslaught of course, but when game lags like hell it's hardly reliable stun. Also there are magsorcs. After juggling jav/toppling/turn evil, I think that TC is overall best choice. Yes, it is blocked very often and it locks you in weird animation and it will be much harder to land onslaught. But at least you can keep up on target jabbing it and without running out of stamina in process (like will happen if you spam crit rush).

Thanks very much for input! I appreciate it, particularly since it sounds like you’ve tried something similar!

A few responses to some things you said:

1. I thought about the Master’s Bow. It’d up my weapon damage a good bit, and I like the major expedition on roll dodge from bows. That said, I don’t actually have a Master’s Bow, and I suspect the BRP DW will be easier for me to obtain, just because it doesn’t require completing the relevant arena on veteran and I don’t really have a group to run these arenas with. A couple other big factors are: (1) I don’t know that I have the bar space for Master’s Bow. I’d obviously drop Quick Cloak, but probably want Shuffle/Elude in its place and so Poison Injection would need to replace something else—probably Repetence/PotL; (2) obviously BRP DW is just super strong. One potential alternative, though, might be to rely on the defense provided by BRP DW a bit more and drop Bloodspawn for a purely offensive monster set. This could be Balorgh, Selene’s, Grothdarr, or Skoria (not sure whether Skoria works on Jabs though). This could maybe help against tankier targets, though I’d have to test if it’s worth it.

2. I guess my plan with people dodging away would largely be to just use Critical Rush and/or Javelin to either get to them or stun them. Obviously, they could still dodge those, so this is potentially one reason to use Turn Evil instead of Javelin. But they can dodge Executioner too, so it’s not clear to me how it’d be much more helpful in this kind of scenario. On Magplar, I basically just Toppling Charge after those people and usually am able to finish them off, even if they dodge it once or twice. Sure, the gap closing costs a lot, but so does their roll dodging—at least in no-CP. Also, practically speaking, the ability that I’d need to replace to put Executioner on my bar is probably Critical Rush. And without a gap closer, I don’t think I’d be better at finishing off the dodge rollers. I guess I could replace Camo Hunter too, though that’d obviously sacrifice damage. I’d have to think about that.

3. I agree about Toppling Charge. I absolutely love it on my Magplar, and needing two abilities to gap close and stun is definitely not as strong. That said, I just don’t know that Toppling Charge would be feasible on a Stamplar without a lot of investment in magicka recovery (which would make the build weaker in some other way of course). I’ll be using Extended Ritual too, and neither of those abilities are cheap. If you’ve successfully run Toppling Charge and Extended Ritual on a Stamplar, I’d be curious to know how much magicka recovery you think is necessary to do that.

MartiniDaniels · April 2020

1. Don't worry about lack of master's bow. As I said it is decent against sorcs and DKs, but useless against wardens and necros, while other backbars (BRP DW or potentates S&B) are good against anybody. Main issue here is that we are losing bosmer's synergy with bow roll-dodge. I tried potentates bow.. it's meh.
2. Executioner vs jabs - yes, tooltip is almost the same, but executioner does all damage instantly while jabs over 1 second... and too often that last 1-2k damage was not enough to finish opponent. Of course executioner can be dodged but it's harder to avoid executioner then jabs. I played without executioner for a while and even now sometimes play without it, but I can't count how many times my 100% frag was lost due to those 5% of HP left.
3. Magicka recovery - I don't invest anything in it but I use bewitched skulls food. I use ATB too sometimes and yes you will use all your magicka instantly if you will spam ER with ATB... so it is all tricky, you either use ER only once in 18 seconds and run stam regen food or have ability to spam ER/TC but use bewitched skulls.

Overall, as you can see from lack of responses in this and other bosmers threads, everybody race changed to nord already

I play 95% of the time as bosmer DK and templar and I can say race is in real disadvantage to nords-orcs. Not that racials are bad, it is simply that bow backbar is bad now. So you need perfectly tweaked and sometimes non-meta build to make bosmer good.. I had some good builds but ZOS already nerfed them and I decided to rest in U25.

But as you can see there will be a lot of changes soon, so maybe new meta will be better for us.

Luckylancer · April 2020

1. It should be enough. You have a lot of regen. You may get 3rd weapon damage jewel when you get used to it.
2. Executioner is good skill
3. Selene is thrash

You dont have any pen. Therefore maul will be better than sword in every scenario for you.

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

Luckylancer wrote: »

1. It should be enough. You have a lot of regen. You may get 3rd weapon damage jewel when you get used to it.
2. Executioner is good skill
3. Selene is thrash

You dont have any pen. Therefore maul will be better than sword in every scenario for you.

Thanks for the response!

I do have some penetration. I’ll have NMA’s penetration bonus and the wood elf penetration bonus after roll dodging, as well as the penetration from PotL if I use it. It’s not a ton of penetration, but it is a little. Of course, if that were all I had then a maul would definitely be better. The reason I suggested a Greatsword could work, though, is that I’m planning to run Onslaught and Binding Javelin. This makes penetration irrelevant to a decent portion of my damage output.

That said, maul STILL might be better, and it’d give me more flexibility in what ultimate I use. And perhaps more importantly, I had a Knightmare 2H maul actually drop for me, so I’ll be sticking with that.

MartiniDaniels · April 2020

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

1. It should be enough. You have a lot of regen. You may get 3rd weapon damage jewel when you get used to it.
2. Executioner is good skill
3. Selene is thrash

You dont have any pen. Therefore maul will be better than sword in every scenario for you.

Thanks for the response!

I do have some penetration. I’ll have NMA’s penetration bonus and the wood elf penetration bonus after roll dodging, as well as the penetration from PotL if I use it. It’s not a ton of penetration, but it is a little. Of course, if that were all I had then a maul would definitely be better. The reason I suggested a Greatsword could work, though, is that I’m planning to run Onslaught and Binding Javelin. This makes penetration irrelevant to a decent portion of my damage output.

That said, maul STILL might be better, and it’d give me more flexibility in what ultimate I use. And perhaps more importantly, I had a Knightmare 2H maul actually drop for me, so I’ll be sticking with that.

You can use NMA maul. ER will be much cheaper on brp dw bar as well as all other back bar abilities. And Maul is better choice. Though on paper it may look like difference is not that big (maul roughly 4-5k pen / 660 = raw 6-7% vs greatsword 6% which are more like 5% due to how formula works), in practice it is much bigger. You may try jabbing dummy with nma maul and greatsword and even given relatively low dummy resistance, maul numbers will be better.

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

1. It should be enough. You have a lot of regen. You may get 3rd weapon damage jewel when you get used to it.
2. Executioner is good skill
3. Selene is thrash

You dont have any pen. Therefore maul will be better than sword in every scenario for you.

Thanks for the response!

I do have some penetration. I’ll have NMA’s penetration bonus and the wood elf penetration bonus after roll dodging, as well as the penetration from PotL if I use it. It’s not a ton of penetration, but it is a little. Of course, if that were all I had then a maul would definitely be better. The reason I suggested a Greatsword could work, though, is that I’m planning to run Onslaught and Binding Javelin. This makes penetration irrelevant to a decent portion of my damage output.

That said, maul STILL might be better, and it’d give me more flexibility in what ultimate I use. And perhaps more importantly, I had a Knightmare 2H maul actually drop for me, so I’ll be sticking with that.

You can use NMA maul. ER will be much cheaper on brp dw bar as well as all other back bar abilities. And Maul is better choice. Though on paper it may look like difference is not that big (maul roughly 4-5k pen / 660 = raw 6-7% vs greatsword 6% which are more like 5% due to how formula works), in practice it is much bigger. You may try jabbing dummy with nma maul and greatsword and even given relatively low dummy resistance, maul numbers will be better.

Yeah and the thing I like about Maul is that it basically scales up with the tankiness of the opponent. Greatsword probably would kill squishier opponents quicker, but I very much doubt this build would have trouble taking down squishier opponents anyways. My Magplar gets lower damage numbers on its Sweeps than this build would on Jabs and still melts squishy people. It’s the tankier ones that are the issue, and 20% penetration on someone with like 30k resistance is massive.

In any event, I farmed Spindleclutch a while last night and got a 2H Maul, so I’ll stick with that. If a Greatsword dropped and I had all the other pieces I need, I’d probably have not bothered farming more for a maul, but I actually got the maul. Still need all the Knightmare jewelry pieces though. I believe Spindleclutch II has two named Knightmare ring drops that are Robust—so that should make the grind a fair bit quicker—but I didn’t get them in my 5-6 runs last night.

MurderMostFoul · April 2020

I've mained a BG stamplar for years, and could go down a deep rabbit hole in this discussion. To refrain from doing so I'll focus on my main input. You're putting to much into stam recovery. You can go a long way by focusing on damage, getting kills, and Repenting. Plus there are always dead players around for more free Repents.

Change to warrior mundus, and consider changing race. One way to bump up your damage without losing to much sustain is by running Lava Foot food.

http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lava_Foot_Soup-And-Saltrice

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I've mained a BG stamplar for years, and could go down a deep rabbit hole in this discussion. To refrain from doing so I'll focus on my main input. You're putting to much into stam recovery. You can go a long way by focusing on damage, getting kills, and Repenting. Plus there are always dead players around for more free Repents.

Change to warrior mundus, and consider changing race. One way to bump up your damage without losing to much sustain is by running Lava Foot food.

http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lava_Foot_Soup-And-Saltrice

Interesting. I’m coming at it from a perspective as a Magplar player, so I’ve not used Repentance and am not really familiar with exactly how good it is as a sustain tool in BGs. Sounds like it’s actually quite good? I’m also just not super familiar with exactly how much sustain I’d need on a Stam character in general, since you need to do your dodging/breaking free/blocking on the same resource as your abilities, and I’m not used to that. So my instinct is to try to make stam recovery super high so that it can take care of my ability usage and my defensive stuff. That said, if I oversustain, it wouldn’t be too difficult to switch mundus stones and add a third weapon damage glyph on the jewelry.

On the Lava Foot thing, don’t you just need to put attribute points into health to make up for the health you’re no longer getting from food/drink? I have actually thought about Lava Foot, but it seems like in order to get the minimum baseline of health that I’d want, I’d need to fiddle around with attribute points (which either costs a decent bit of gold or some crown store points) and would not really end up stronger. But I’m open to being persuaded on this.

I find it interesting in general that you think this wouldn’t be enough damage. It’s definitely quite a bit more damage than my Magplar on paper. Though I guess the self-healing on Sweeps mean you don’t have to spend global cooldowns casting Vigor, and the lack of a gap closer that stuns also means less Jabs usage, so perhaps those are big factors.

RiskyChalice863 · April 2020

As an update, I’ve had a really tough time farming Knightmare jewelry. It shouldn’t actually be that hard, since there’s a couple named Knightmare rings that drop in Spindleclutch II, but they just won’t drop for me. Since it felt like getting all three jewelry pieces would take forever, I spent some time trying instead to go for Bone Pirate—which I already had two rings and a couple impen armor pieces for. But even there I still needed a necklace, and I spent hours farming Blackheart Haven and didn’t get it to drop.

I still want to try it with those sets, but in the shorter term, I’ve got Spriggans jewelry and a couple Spriggans impen pieces that I could use instead. Spriggans adds lots of damage, but loses a lot of defense that Knightmare added. So I’m thinking I may switch to the resistance mundus stone to add more tankiness, and then make up for losing the stam recovery mundus by not putting weapon damage enchants on the jewelry (and then if there’s too much sustain I can obviously add weapon damage enchants as appropriate).

Since I’m using the Dubious drink anyways, I think Bone Pirate is actually probably better than Spriggans, and I like the tankiness and team utility that Knightmare would provide. So I really do want to try those sets out, but I think I need something to start out with so that I’m not just stuck interminably farming Blackheart Haven and Spindleclutch before I can even try the Stamplar out.

I also don’t have the BRP DW yet, but in the meantime I do have two Potentates daggers.

So, for now, I’ll be trying out NMA + Spriggans + Bloodspawn + Potentates backbar.

MurderMostFoul · April 2020

RiskyChalice863 wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

I've mained a BG stamplar for years, and could go down a deep rabbit hole in this discussion. To refrain from doing so I'll focus on my main input. You're putting to much into stam recovery. You can go a long way by focusing on damage, getting kills, and Repenting. Plus there are always dead players around for more free Repents.

Change to warrior mundus, and consider changing race. One way to bump up your damage without losing to much sustain is by running Lava Foot food.

http://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Lava_Foot_Soup-And-Saltrice

Interesting. I’m coming at it from a perspective as a Magplar player, so I’ve not used Repentance and am not really familiar with exactly how good it is as a sustain tool in BGs. Sounds like it’s actually quite good? I’m also just not super familiar with exactly how much sustain I’d need on a Stam character in general, since you need to do your dodging/breaking free/blocking on the same resource as your abilities, and I’m not used to that. So my instinct is to try to make stam recovery super high so that it can take care of my ability usage and my defensive stuff. That said, if I oversustain, it wouldn’t be too difficult to switch mundus stones and add a third weapon damage glyph on the jewelry.

On the Lava Foot thing, don’t you just need to put attribute points into health to make up for the health you’re no longer getting from food/drink? I have actually thought about Lava Foot, but it seems like in order to get the minimum baseline of health that I’d want, I’d need to fiddle around with attribute points (which either costs a decent bit of gold or some crown store points) and would not really end up stronger. But I’m open to being persuaded on this.

I find it interesting in general that you think this wouldn’t be enough damage. It’s definitely quite a bit more damage than my Magplar on paper. Though I guess the self-healing on Sweeps mean you don’t have to spend global cooldowns casting Vigor, and the lack of a gap closer that stuns also means less Jabs usage, so perhaps those are big factors.

The thing with lava foot is, there are more sources for weapon damage then there are stam recovery. You can't get weapon damage from your food, so maximizing the amount of recovery you can get from food is an efficient way to increase it. Otherwise, you will trade weapon damage for stam recovery elsewhere. You will need more health though. I run Orc on my Stamplar and get health that way. On a Wood Elf (if you have to stick with that race) you will need all health enchants on your gear.

Critique this Stamplar *No CP* Build

Critique this Stamplar No CP Build