Yea its a trash change made for CP cyrodiil which already should have been abolished. CP doesn't work, the performance is horrendous. Get rid of CP cyrodiil.

For non-CP this is an awful change. It just further tries to prevent people from keeping themselves alive and makes BGs infinitely worse and even more beholden to getting super lucky with competent teammates.

This game goes 4 steps back for every 1 step forward.

Iskiab wrote: »

Ah I missed this update. Not a bad change, just have to make some tweaks to shields.

@Iskiab
Do you realise that shield stacking is going to make a comeback as the meta again and is going to benefit only mag players since an overwhelming majority of mag-users use shield stacks for the lack of defense?
If you think this is going to be good for the game (more specifically to you), then prepare for incoming shield nerfs in the future all because of complaints and whines from low APM players who, having their reduced heals by the 20% nerf, can't even keep up with their defenses since the shield-stacking player will have an edge by having to spam more shields while on the offensive (it after all, is a temporary HP increase). Shield-stackers won't even have to worry a thing about healing themselves. The root problem actually comes from CP system.
Please refer to my reply to @Gilvoth below.

Gilvoth wrote: »

i love the changes and hope they stay.
and i am absolutely sure i am not alone in that thinking.
Healing and defenses are WAY too Strong right now, and the changes @ZOS_BrianWheeler is suggesting, sounds and looks like a Right step in that direction.

@Gilvoth
I respectfully strongly disagree. The root problem is not OP defenses and healing. The problem is CHAMPION POINT SYSTEM (CP).
You can imagine getting a total of 30% more healing from CP alone (15% Quick Recovery red tree + 15% Blessed blue tree), this is greater than Major Mending (25%) alone. Add both for a hefty 55% more heals (heals are additive right?). CP is a completely unnecessary and broken system for having a faux-buff that's causing huge imbalances between CP PvP and no-CP PVP. This will affect even CP campaigns should the changes go through but the impact to no-CP & BG is going to be even more pronounced.

Vlad9425 wrote: »

Final nail in the coffin for solo play but obviously the big zergs which have like 15 healers will hardly notice this nerf making it completely pointless.

@Vlad9425
Wholeheartedly agreed. A group is a group and will have multitude of healing sources to come from.

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Uncalled for? What game are you playing? Healing is overtuned, people aren't dying, they just hold block and heal. This is a good change.

@MaxJrFTW
May I ask, have you checked your build quality SWOT? Have you tried making tweaks to your build/rotation/playstyles? Are you playing in CP campaign? If so, do remember that the green tree CP gives additional block cost reduction up to 25%.
If so, check my replies to @Iskiab and @Gilvoth above. Also, it's a 20% healing nerf just so you know, plug that nerf into your current heals and see if it is actually a viable solution and test it in BG when the latest PTS patch comes out. If you have not much of great self healing in the first place, this will come to haunt you back. Mark my words.

See, the reason you feel it's overtuned is because of CP alone because as it is in no-CP Cyro & BG, things are pretty much the most balanced it has ever been.

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

It’s too early to say the sky is falling.

Let’s see what the numbers are on PTS, folks.

There is going to be some character improvement resulting from the new baseline for Crit Resist ... resulting in more options (especially in CP PvP).

@Taleof2Cities
Tho I quite understand your reasoning, there's one number we can definitely deduce atm which is 20% healing reduction.
That can't be a good tweak. It's horrendous!

VaranisArano wrote: »

I doubt it has anything to do with balancing ball groups. They'll be fine. They can tell their group members "hey, we need another healer or three" and they won't be hurting.

Solo players and disorganized groups, on the other hand, can't compensate so easily.

@VaranisArano
Knowing ZOS, you shouldn't doubt that since their reasonings can be illogical at best (eg. The newly termed APM that apparently came out from nowhere). I agree, solo and disorg groups (which are mostly and usually 'low APM' players) are going to suffer greatly. Out come the new threads in the forum from them and ZOS will come about with another bout of nerfs to resistance etc just to please the overwhelming majority of them. *crushes crystal ball*

Jeremy wrote: »

It doesn't surprise me they are nerfing healing. The developers of this game have always been hostile to the concept of players being able to actually counter damage with healing. So every time healing gets strong enough to where it can actually keep players alive here comes the nerf stick because DPS has to be > everything else.

This has a lot more to do with CP than anything. Because these invincible tank/healer "metas" I keep hearing people go on about simply do not exist in none CP PvP. And the reason so many players stack heals and armor is because it's one of the few ways you can actually stay alive, especially during nasty burst damage or a lag spike. Otherwise it's just a rat race to see who lands their burst of doom first which doesn't make for very interesting or fun combat. Either you or the other guy just go splat. Wow, so fun.

Anyway, to those players on this forum who think healing is OP on this game, you should try playing some other MMORPGs out there as a healer. You would feel like a God. Healing has been in a better place on this game since the regeneration changes, but it is still miles below other games out there.

@Jeremy
Agree agree agreed! ZOS should look at tweaking CHAMPION POINTS not a blanket nerf.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

You are absolutely wrong that it is uncalled. A lot of players are sure that healing is overpowered in PVP, and nerfing it on battle spirit level is best way to deal with it without ruining actual healing abilities.
Or do you want another round of decreased on 66%, increased by 33% like in U23-24?

@MartiniDaniels
Like @iCaliban has said, it's not a problem with heals themselves, it's mostly due to CP. Other than that, PvP is the most balanced at this point of time particularly no-CP Cyro and BGs.

20% healing nerf is uncalled for.

All I hope for is that the nerf gets tuned down after some testing but as it is now that's a lot of healing gone. It's bad enough to try to sustain healing in lag cyro with what we have now, I dont want to see after ..yikes

Defence is too strong right now, heal bot templars bursting back up. Let's try it and see before we comment as I don't think it's a bad thing.

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

Excerpt from https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/521860/update-26-combat-preview/p1

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Greetings Gang!

(...)

Lastly, in this update we are making some small adjustments to Critical Resistance and Healing affecting PvP specifically. Over the years, we’ve seen healing become quite volatile in PvP with the ability to negate a high amount of damage in just 1 ability cast for many players at once. This isn’t just 1 ability that causes this type of health bar swinging, so we are making adjustments to Battlespirit which now reduces healing taken by 60% instead of 50%.

Gearing up for PvP isn’t a simple task because of the need for Critical Resistance. The other issue regarding itemization in PvP is that it’s very limiting due to the need for building Critical Resistance. This means other popular traits and builds aren’t as viable in PvP unless you’re a glass cannon or top-end player. To bring more viable stat and set combinations into PvP play, we are now granting a baseline Critical Resistance. In conjunction with that change, we are making several adjustments to item sets which grant Critical Resistance. We also are making changes to the Impenetrable trait by reducing the value.

We hope these updates enhance your day to day adventures in ESO, and we’ll see you in Tamriel! We look forward to your feedback regarding the changes above, as well as item sets and your general playtesting experience when Update 26 hits PTS next week!

I don't know about you guys/gals but the above looks, smells and sounds like ZOS again catering to players with low APM a.k.a bad players, who don't even want to spend miniscule amount of time to theorycraft gearsets to better their stats by improving on their weaknesses (simple SWOT analysis anyone?)? Do you realise that it's a 20% HEALING NERF in PvP compared to what we have now? I play in no-CP and the heals are already not too 'volatile' to start with. If you're arguing about ball groups, then large heals are to be expected and players must do well to counter groups with organised play.

Let's suppose if these changes to Battle Spirit go into Live. Do you think it's going to solve the 'volatility' of heals (I call BS for @ZOS_BrianWheeler's reasoning) players have ie. well-geared players (WG) vs. poorly-geared players (PG)? Answer is a definite NO. What it will do is nerf everyone's heals to a large degree (20% nerf!) till those PG players can't even cope to go around Cyro/BGs with at least a fighting chance to survive.

Just please @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert, do not go through with the Battle Spirit changes, please reconsider. It will not serve the whole PvP community well especially new and PG PvP-centric players. Feeling the brunt of the nerf, I'm sure the uninstall button/New World MMO is going to sound more appealing to them. Do not mess this up, ZOS.

This all just makes so much easier not to log in to this... What they really should focus on are all players dishing out 9K hits through 32K mitigation plus armor plus shield and take 300 dmg themselves from buffed hits 3,2K SD and 15K pen. ^^b These people need zero heals and will have an ever bigger easy/god mode. I'm surprised they aren't bored to death already.

D3N7157 wrote: »

im happy with the healing nerf, its going to create a real diffrience between good and bad players

xinvidiousx wrote: »

paul.olesonb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm more surprised that "Hardened Ward" and similar shields weren't NERF'd some way or some how, battlegrounds is just filled with Sorcerers spamming "Hardened Ward" builds... Super boring meta to play in if you're not a Sorcerer also spamming "Hardened Ward".

i mean if you dont have any substantial heal (non pet build) what else they supposed to use? leave the sorcs alone they been nerfed enough, dont need to be in NB status

ok petsorc

@D3N7157
That's what you're saying now. Wait till PTS gets the update next week and you're most likely going to sing a different tune after testing it then. It is going to affect you by a large margin. Look, just plug in the -20% nerf to your healings (which is presumably weak to start with) in Live and tell me how that's going to be good for you.

Your reply also reeks of the NB vs Sorc debacle this community has seen in the past, a year into the launch of the game all those years back. Oh my how history repeats itself. I've been here long enough to know how this will end.

Just remember that it's not a 10% heal nerf. It's actually a 20% nerf to heals and you are affected the worst if you don't have strong heals to start with.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sneaky-Snurr wrote: »

I don't know about you guys/gals but the above looks, smells and sounds like ZOS again catering to players with low APM a.k.a bad players, who don't even want to spend miniscule amount of time to theorycraft gearsets to better their stats by improving on their weaknesses (simple SWOT analysis anyone?)

I can't believe I get to ask this more than once on this forum, but is this Starcraft? Why did Actions Per Minute even become a saying for this game anyway.

I've had to fight too many mega healing players to not be a little happy for a heal nerf, and since I'm one of those glass cannons that loses the fight after three hits anyway, the nerf won't affect me much. You can't call the change to Impen a nerf since they're going to give everyone a base Crit Resist buff to compensate, which will be nice for a lot of players who don't want to mess with their traits.

You realize that every videogame has a certain measure of APM right? The best players are generally Higher on that scale for APM. In ESO high APM players were the players that would block cancel animations to not lose GCDs while buffing, or Bash cancel executioner for the maximum amount of damage possible. There are alot of combat mechanics that are going to be lost and or nerfed based on the players being able to perform multiple actions in fast order. As far as crit resist. Its going to be a nerf across the board. Even if they give players a base amount of crit resist its not going to make up for the fact that they just nerfed healing by 20%. They shouldnt just flat reduce healing across the board, solo player healing isnt bad anyways. Should have nerfed cross healing

Qbiken wrote: »

Imagine ZOS nerfing solo- and smallscale even further. A 20% healing nerf for a ballgroup or zerg is nothing, but for a solo or smaller group it's going to be devastating. Solo- and smallscale needs buffs, not the opposite.

@Qbiken
People need to realise what you said above. It's true, what ZOS is doing with the nerf is effectively killing off solo/small scale players thus requiring ppl to ball up into zergs to survive any sort of skirmishes.
This nerf is akin to the very recent (fortunately it didn't go through) blanket nerf to light attacks where ZoS themselves thought would narrow down the skill gap but in reality, would make everyone worse off as shown by several testing by player(s) on YouTube (search theasiangod).
Players with good heals will feel it slightly but players with bad heals are going to end up whining on the forums asking to nerf dmg after they fail to cover themselves with their reduced heals because "my enemy's damage is OP". Cycle repeats until we're left with light and heavy attacks ESO.