People shy away from vet content because of players

LiquidPony · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

I mean I make a point to not quit on Dungeon Finder groups just because things aren't going smoothly and I do my best to be as helpful as possible, but sometimes, there's no choice but to bail.

daim · April 2020

I recently hit 810 when I came back to the game after I left it in 2015. I came back as I like the combat system MMO's have and I missed it. I gave WoW a try but that game is sooo outdated I couldn't stare my screen more than a few minutes so here I am. But I have noticed the elitism too and therefore I'm happy doing the dungeons solo. Currently I'm cleaning them (which are possible) in veteran level.

I don't blame for the elitists alone though. I don't like free-floaters either and I can understand how frustrating that must be when the two meet in a pug.

I could of course apply for a nice friendly guild but then again it would take quite a bit of time and effort and from my experience from the past 20 years it always end up with restricting your free time in game. You'll have to stay active and build a rep to get things going and sometimes people just don't have energy for that, not even now when many of us are working from home.

Have anyone noticed that many of the community creators have recently made a lot of builds for solo play? Because there might be a reason for it and the popularity for those are obviously rising. There have also been several requests on the forums to remove the group mechanics from dungeons on the forums - and there's always "vet players" with an attitude that the soloers are almost trying to take their jobs from them hah. Anyways .. I keep soloing, and so do many others.

I wonder if any of these things are somehow connected ?

Blynjubitr · April 2020

daim wrote: »

I wonder if any of these things are somehow connected ?

I doubt it, because you can create plenty of characters for different purposes

Chicharron · April 2020

it's like in real life, there are good people and bad people, you can't expect everyone to be good.

It is a human being who is behind the screen, being anonymous they are not afraid to show how pathetic they are.

Runefang · April 2020

And perhaps people decent at the game steer away from pugs and helping other players because they're often just called "worthless elitists" in return. Toxicity is everywhere, its not just end game elitists.

I used to run pugs more and if I saw the other DD doing woeful dps I'd offer help and more often than not they'd snap right back at me. I would do 80% of the group dps effectively carrying the group but how dare I point out they were not doing the right things to fulfill the role they signed up for.

Now days outside difficult DLC dungeons its extremely easy to finish any vet dungeon with speed run, hard mode with just one competent dps and a semi-conscious tank so I ignore what the other players are doing.

daim · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

daim wrote: »

I wonder if any of these things are somehow connected ?

I doubt it, because you can create plenty of characters for different purposes

True. And I use them all for soloing currently. What I'm basically saying the current athmosphere doesn't encourage you to do the group content. Nor PVP. You made a good point in your original post, thanks for that.

Drdeath20 · April 2020

Its a pretty complex topic. I mean you owe them nothing and often i find that the less experienced players are more frustrated and toxic over a player with decent experience.

Lumenn · April 2020

Runefang wrote: »

And perhaps people decent at the game steer away from pugs and helping other players because they're often just called "worthless elitists" in return. Toxicity is everywhere, its not just end game elitists.

I used to run pugs more and if I saw the other DD doing woeful dps I'd offer help and more often than not they'd snap right back at me. I would do 80% of the group dps effectively carrying the group but how dare I point out they were not doing the right things to fulfill the role they signed up for.

Now days outside difficult DLC dungeons its extremely easy to finish any vet dungeon with speed run, hard mode with just one competent dps and a semi-conscious tank so I ignore what the other players are doing.

Now see THAT I don't get. If I'm screwing up or making it harder on the healer/tank (which is ultimately what I'm going to be is a tank once I learn the mechanics as a dd) I'd be GLAD for someone to tip me off as long as you're not "hey stooopid, you need to block" lol. Its not anyone's job to teach, it should always be appreciated when offered.

pod88kk · April 2020

In my experience the 'End Game' players have never been anything but helpful. Had one person who came to my house for 2 hours towatch and critic my rotation and managed to pull an extra 10k.

Been invite to new groups because I'm eager to do the hard work and to get better. Spent over a year trying to get the VMOL skin and have completed that and much more since joining these teams.

Obviously there are a few bad eggs but I've found that if you're nice to people and GENUINELY show that you're working hard to get better the end game community will great you with open arms.

If you're not getting invited don't act like a child throwing their toys out the pram taring a whole community with the one brush maybe it's your personality they don't like, they think you're lazy or just in it for the skins they you bolt.

YandereGirlfriend · April 2020

Suggestion for the OP: Turn off your whispers!

I did this after growing weary of brain-dead salty whispers in PvP but now I just leave them off whenever I'm there.

If you're in a group, you can still use the group chat or Discord to communicate. The nature of salty players typically means that they don't have the courage to make their toxic comments in a public setting, so eliminating whispers basically means eliminating the salt from your world entirely. It's a good lifestyle!

Apart from that, I think that your argument is reductive and agree with others that this topic is far more complex than your narrow framing of it provides for.

justaquickword · April 2020

LiquidPony wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

I mean I make a point to not quit on Dungeon Finder groups just because things aren't going smoothly and I do my best to be as helpful as possible, but sometimes, there's no choice but to bail.

Bailing is one thing. Bailing after making some snidey comment is another.

Some people should just get over themselves.
99% of us all have the capacity to copy a YouTube build and the rotations if we want to. It's just some of us just want to play the game and not let the game play us.

Shantu · April 2020

I run vet trial progression groups and I'm consistently offering to be helpful. When you hit the DSP wall with Lokkestiiz in vSS, there are always some who just don't want to hear it. So I tell them they need to improve their DSP. I offer to help them. I'm ignored. They are back the next week heavy attacking their way through wipes. So I'm the elitist?

I understand why some trial leaders are hard-nosed about DSP requirements and come across rather curt. It saves a LOT of time and frustration. But you try to be lenient in progression groups so people have room to improve and progress. But no matter how helpful you try to be, a good percentage will always be resentful of it.

Saying you have to have a certain amount of group DSP to beat vSS is not being elitist. It's just stating the facts.

justaquickword · April 2020

Shantu wrote: »

I run vet trial progression groups and I'm consistently offering to be helpful. When you hit the DSP wall with Lokkestiiz in vSS, there are always some who just don't want to hear it. So I tell them they need to improve their DSP. I offer to help them. I'm ignored. They are back the next week heavy attacking their way through wipes. So I'm the elitist?

I understand why some trial leaders are hard-nosed about DSP requirements and come across rather curt. It saves a LOT of time and frustration. But you try to be lenient in progression groups so people have room to improve and progress. But no matter how helpful you try to be, a good percentage will always be resentful of it.

Saying you have to have a certain amount of group DSP to beat vSS is not being elitist. It's just stating the facts.

Hah! DSP... Now that IS a whole different subject.

😏

nud3_voxel · April 2020

My opinion is that this is a load of rubbish. Don't blame on the end-game pve community for your social anxiety and lack of confidence. I've been part of the end-game trial guilds for 2 years and I haven't met anyone who would be toxic to newer players in dungeons. The truth is that most of the toxic people are not elitists but wannabe leaders that think they know everything about the game. The so called elitists will basically never pug dungeons and find friends in guilds.

I cannot stress this enough. No end-game PVEer will look at eso logs for pledges or random dungeons. 99% of the end-game PVEer will be never be toxic when pugging dungeons and actually explain things if you simply ask.

And please, do not assume that every time you end up with a toxic player in your group it has anything to do with being elitist or end-game PVEer. It's a video game over the internet. Some people are ***, get over it and move on with your life.

BisDasBlutGefriert · April 2020

What's really funny, is when those elitist players are tearing you down to nothing with nasty words for not playing exactly how THEY want you to play, then you throw in a quick one liner jab back.....then they start to cry like a bunch of wimps and report you. Then they kick you.

Or my favorite; I like to laugh when they are ripping into me. I don't say anything back to them. Just laugh at how stupid they sound. Hahaha!

You know who you are. Smile for me.

Eleandor · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

Nah agreed and I don’t. I’m measuring my dps and not someone else’s. If at all I see it as a competition if I end up in a dungeon with similarly high dps and push myself. But if I’m in there with someone who does minuscule dps I don’t care as long as we clear and if not I’ll help. That said I’m guilty of quitting a dungeon sometimes right of the bat cause I had maybe 20min play time until my next meeting or so and get LoM with some barely CP player. I do feel bad then though, I know it’s not cool but I just don’t have the time at that point. Usually I do apologize

akdave0 · April 2020

This is a weird topic. There is truth to both points of view. Vet trials need a certain amount of experience and knowledge to clear. The biggest thing is dps. If you don’t have it, it’s going to be brutal and usually a wipe. I’ve run with best trial guilds and the worst. Sometimes I tell them where they’re going wrong, and EVERY single time, the response is the same. They don’t want to hear it.

I progged with a group on Vmol. Dps was terrible, half the group was girls and they did was clog comms with mindless chatter. One was a warden healer and not pulling her weight, when she asked me to heal across the room, I knew right then it was bull crap. They didn’t pull jhassa correctly, and they refused to give up pads for healers. It was a wipe on the twins. I don’t care much for warden healers, they have poor burst and their hots make for trouble seeing aoes that nuke the group. Screw that bear.

So many times I’ve been in VSS and the group doesn’t make it passed the first boss be it frost or fire.

The biggest problem I’ve encountered is dps players thinking they are elite. Ego is the biggest killer there. They can hump a dummy all day but when the chips fall, they cant perform under the pressure. Yelling, panic in the voice, and blaming everyone but themselves. Refusing to put on a self heal because they will lose 1k damage. Gtfoh.

Here’s a good idea if you run trials or host them. Teach players the vet mechanics on normal. Placing, callouts, strategy and when it’s over, talk about where things went right, where they went wrong. Making suggestions to improve group performance. If you serious about helping/teaching prove it.

Nerouyn · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

No.

I mean yeah, some of the people who run vet content can be nasty, but all that stupid one shot death mechanics etc. would still not be played.

I've not played it myself yet but we've all seen many complaints in the forum about the dragons in Southern Elsweyr. Seemingly ZO decided to roll out this unpopular design into overland content to "teach" players to love this awfulness.

All signs point to it having failed spectacularly.

Sanguinor2 · April 2020

Ah yes, the "toxic Elitist" debate is Always interesting.
From personal experience pointing out that someone should Train some more before entering vet Dungeons again is Always a sure way to get them to be Angry at you no matter how Right one is. Thing is, if you Queue as tank but you do 25% Group dps something is very wrong and it makes for a very miserable experience to spend one hour in a dungeon that should be cleared in 15 minutes. Its Always nice to get called a toxic Elitist for saying that 20k Group dps is not appropiate for vet Content.

justaquickword wrote: »

Bailing is one thing. Bailing after making some snidey comment is another.
Some people should just get over themselves.
99% of us all have the capacity to copy a YouTube build and the rotations if we want to. It's just some of us just want to play the game and not let the game play us.

Then kindly do so in overland or in normal Dungeons but do not expect People in vet to pick up the slack because you want to roleplay archerkitty nr. 742 and only bow light attack.

Ri_Khan · April 2020

I_am_Groot wrote: »

I disagree with the language of "worthless elitist players" there are poor attitudes playing all levels of ESO content, regardless of their character level and on the other side of the coin, there are also many players not ready to play vet content due to their level and loadout, which drags the team down.

This is the reality I've experienced. I've taken unwarranted flack from "elitist players" in trial groups who think they're god's gift to ESO and I've also been put in plenty of vet dungeon groups that had absolutely no business being there yet. The only thing to do is just move on and find better people to play with. They're out there.

justaquickword · April 2020

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Ah yes, the "toxic Elitist" debate is Always interesting.
From personal experience pointing out that someone should Train some more before entering vet Dungeons again is Always a sure way to get them to be Angry at you no matter how Right one is. Thing is, if you Queue as tank but you do 25% Group dps something is very wrong and it makes for a very miserable experience to spend one hour in a dungeon that should be cleared in 15 minutes. Its Always nice to get called a toxic Elitist for saying that 20k Group dps is not appropiate for vet Content.

justaquickword wrote: »

Bailing is one thing. Bailing after making some snidey comment is another.
Some people should just get over themselves.
99% of us all have the capacity to copy a YouTube build and the rotations if we want to. It's just some of us just want to play the game and not let the game play us.

Then kindly do so in overland or in normal Dungeons but do not expect People in vet to pick up the slack because you want to roleplay archerkitty nr. 742 and only bow light attack.

Funny guy...

Thanks for further proving my point...

HEIIMS · April 2020

Yes, "endgame elitists" are so toxic, that's why there are so many discord servers, streams, youtube channels specifically dedicated to teaching people in all manner of aspects of the game for free right?

Endgame players pug very rarely, and even though there are indeed some toxic ones, it's a very small fraction of endgame player base in general. Those "endgame elitists" you described are probably some max cp shitters who're too toxic or bad (in most cases both) to have a steady raid group to play with. If you want to have a positive raiding experience just join a low-mid tier raiding guild/discord, and voila you'll probably won't deal with toxicity 9 times out of 10.

idk · April 2020

tmbrinks made some good points in their post.

I do not think the community is becoming more toxic. From my raiding guilds to a casual, more social guild, everyone is cool. I think with GF groups a player is more likely to come across someone toxic but they are using the GF to get a group and it may be because they have problems getting along with someone else.

I do know some players that falsely accused a former guild of being toxic. They were kicked form one of the raiding guilds claimed the guild was toxic but that was not the case. In guilds serious about raiding they have requirements so the guild can meet its goal. These players no longer meet the requirements and instead of accepting help or even showing attempts to improve they just ignored the situation. If anything, their behavior afterward was what was toxic.

Further, many of the raiders I know help other groups learn the content through training teams in their raiding guild or help other guilds that are more along the lines of training guilds.

tmbrinks · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Ah yes, the "toxic Elitist" debate is Always interesting.
From personal experience pointing out that someone should Train some more before entering vet Dungeons again is Always a sure way to get them to be Angry at you no matter how Right one is. Thing is, if you Queue as tank but you do 25% Group dps something is very wrong and it makes for a very miserable experience to spend one hour in a dungeon that should be cleared in 15 minutes. Its Always nice to get called a toxic Elitist for saying that 20k Group dps is not appropiate for vet Content.

justaquickword wrote: »

Bailing is one thing. Bailing after making some snidey comment is another.
Some people should just get over themselves.
99% of us all have the capacity to copy a YouTube build and the rotations if we want to. It's just some of us just want to play the game and not let the game play us.

Then kindly do so in overland or in normal Dungeons but do not expect People in vet to pick up the slack because you want to roleplay archerkitty nr. 742 and only bow light attack.

Funny guy...

Thanks for further proving my point...

I still don't even know what point you're making?

Sounds like you want use an RP-type build, purposefully gimp your DPS, and then waste other people's time by queuing into things. It's the exact same "toxic" behavior that the OP is referring to, just in the opposite direction.

Find a group of like-minded individuals and do your stuff with them. They'll both appreciate it, and you'll probably have more fun. It's the same reason that you don't see those PUG veteran trials. Players who want to run veteran trials, want to run with other like-minded players. Players who want to improve, they want to do more DPS, they want to be better healers, be better tanks. So they form their own groups of players like them and in many cases, don't bother with the others who don't have the same mindset.

Jaimeh · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff. For years i actually knew community was growing into beeing more toxic than more helpfull and friendly. But after recent events it just proves it literally.

I have 2 dedicated PvE guilds rn and when i have low CP players in my group i always try to help them instead of instantly kicking them, same goes for high CP low dps or low exp. Because even if you cannot clear the contet you can help people see their limits and make them realize they can improve in some areas instead of pushing them away from it.

So please be helpfull not toxic. Otherwise we are doomed to play this game alone.

Edit: I should add this because a lot of people misunderstood my point, i am not saying run vet content with complete low CP group. But having few of them around and making them see for themselves they are not ready for the content doesn't really hurt the progress of the content(because usually they are dead most of the time and at the end of the run they understand if they are ready or not.). For example if i have few low cp players in my group, i always invite some guildies that i trust so we can compansate for them. If dps is so undoable you can politely point out to related parties they should work out o certain areas so they can run the place successfully. But i have seen some ugly conversations against new players that i would rather never see again, because it is disgusting.

I agree that in PUGs it's hit-and-miss whether you find people who are supportive towards new players, and sometimes you can see really unsavoury behaviours, but if someone is interested in learning to run vet content, there are many training guilds out there, or guilds who have training runs, along with discord servers that have channels to discuss builds, and help people get better at the game. If you stick to those environments, chances are you will never encounter toxic behaviour, because they are specifically geared towards helping players unfamiliar with vet content. If you PUG, then it might be not be a great experience, and you probably won't end up learning a lot (on the flipside, when you become experienced, PUGing is great for keeping you on your toes!). I guess older players sometimes forget how overwhelming the game can be to newcomers, especially in their first forray into veteran content, that's why it's nice to run either with training guilds or friends who don't mind teaching you. However, I think that even if someone seeks out guilds/groups like that, a huge part of making progress remains in their hands and whether they put in the effort to improve in their role, and become better in running veteran dungeons. The key is not getting disappointed--this game has a big learning curve, and no one learned to play overnight. Some people may be faster learners, but every player I know, including myself, who's put in effort, has seen results. For vet content in particular, there are many resources, like online writen or video guides, and even addons for mechanics for PC players, which can be extremely helpful.

karekiz · April 2020

Seen toxic from both. A lot of time its hard to tell if a player is actually high end though.

I went into a vet FH once. Its stupid easy. Its FH, even HM is stupidly easy. I go about my way as tank and I duo'd qued with a healer. I do the skip minding my own business with another player following. I wasn't looking and got to first boss. The other player (400?ish CP) was still back at entrance. It dawned on me "ohh hes getting quest". Once second later the DPS gets annoyed and charges first boss. Dude is still way back, turns out he doesn't know skip and trains. Its all good, I know how to manage and have a decent healer so clear it all and kill the first boss. That DPS came to that boss at roughly 35-40% HP.

The first thing that guy said was "*** serious 70% damage as WW". The other DPS simply left. I watched him go off to solo the next boss. He did. More power to him.

Then I realized. I am a tank with a healer and don't want to group with him. So we bailed. Thus kicking him from the instance and putting him on CD and re-que. I got roughly 30 mins of him telling me I will never be a gryphon heart tank because I was playing a sorc tank (Unsure why this guy had such a hard on for it). I told him to just que on his Gryphon Heart tank and:

"Even if I had one I wouldn't want to deal with low DPS".

Was that guy high end? Who knows. When I think of high end players I assume they would simply shrug and carry. I am not high end (Cap around 65K-70K on raid dummy depending if I am playing a fun build or not) and I could carry someone through that. Its an easy instance regardless. Made my day booting him from instance though.

justaquickword · April 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Ah yes, the "toxic Elitist" debate is Always interesting.
From personal experience pointing out that someone should Train some more before entering vet Dungeons again is Always a sure way to get them to be Angry at you no matter how Right one is. Thing is, if you Queue as tank but you do 25% Group dps something is very wrong and it makes for a very miserable experience to spend one hour in a dungeon that should be cleared in 15 minutes. Its Always nice to get called a toxic Elitist for saying that 20k Group dps is not appropiate for vet Content.

justaquickword wrote: »

Bailing is one thing. Bailing after making some snidey comment is another.
Some people should just get over themselves.
99% of us all have the capacity to copy a YouTube build and the rotations if we want to. It's just some of us just want to play the game and not let the game play us.

Then kindly do so in overland or in normal Dungeons but do not expect People in vet to pick up the slack because you want to roleplay archerkitty nr. 742 and only bow light attack.

Funny guy...

Thanks for further proving my point...

I still don't even know what point you're making?

Sounds like you want use an RP-type build, purposefully gimp your DPS, and then waste other people's time by queuing into things. It's the exact same "toxic" behavior that the OP is referring to, just in the opposite direction.

Find a group of like-minded individuals and do your stuff with them. They'll both appreciate it, and you'll probably have more fun. It's the same reason that you don't see those PUG veteran trials. Players who want to run veteran trials, want to run with other like-minded players. Players who want to improve, they want to do more DPS, they want to be better healers, be better tanks. So they form their own groups of players like them and in many cases, don't bother with the others who don't have the same mindset.

Don't make assumptions on my playstyle and motivations and I then I won't have to make the assumption you're an arrogant condescending forum troll.

I don't do any of the things you've just listed but since there's no minimum DPS threshold in place for veteran dungeons I'd be quite within my rights to do so If I so wished.

The OP was about toxic behavior in pug veteran dungeons to which I replied, giving some of my recent negative experiences when participating in them.

Just for the record, I'm not there just for the achievements, and I don't expect anyone to carry me through them. It's the best way to learn the mechanics of them. Unless you're telling me I have to research them first on YouTube to reach your ever so exacting standards..

Unless a minimum DPS level for participation in them is introduced then I don't see why anyone should be ridiculed by other group members for failing to live up to a DPS level they deem "acceptable" in their own minds.

I never once said "end game" players were responsible or that everyone acts like that, but there are certainly a few who need a reality check.

xaraan · April 2020

My friend and I ran a dungeon with some lower level folks once, we never mind helping out new players. I was tanking and they were healing. So both the DPS were the new guys, which if they aren't doing well, no amount of tanking or healing can make up for really bad damage. I tried explaining once to one of them that using sap essence as a spammable for a single target attack wasn't the best option damage and resource wise, but was ignored. We got to boss and all mechanics were being ignored, so after a couple of attempts I went over the mechanics of the fight and was told to stop being elitist and just do the fight.

At that point I was done with the run. And it's not the only time I've run into people like that. (Although that particular player I found out later was actually known to several others for always trying to get people to just carry them through content and was known for being more toxic than some that just ignore you).

I have zero issues running content with new players, underleveled players, etc. But players that are not willing to learn mechanics or builds I am no interested in.

If you want to 'play how you want' and do nothing but spam bow light attacks, go for it. But playing how I want consists of not slamming my head against the wall trying to do content with that player.

OP is right, end game players should not be toxic, but let's not paint it as one sided. There is just as much toxicity from low level players as well. It's not something that infects you as you get to high level, the same players that are toxic at CP 1000 were toxic as they leveled up too.

Silent99 · April 2020

There are plenty of guilds that host training runs and they dont aim to complete but instead have experienced players with some free time introduce and teach trial mechanics to newer players.
Its simply not true that all endgame players are toxic elitists , sure there are some but you wont encounter them often as they dont like playing with newer players and often only run in full experienced groups. If the people you spoke to are scared of doing harder content due to the supposed toxic elitists , tell them they are wrong and should give training runs a shot as there are usually 0 expectations .

Whats annoying is when an egotistic player who thinks they are better than they really are decides to be selfish and join serious runs they clearly aernt ready for, bringing down 11 other people in the process and when you approach them to let them know that they should consider doing more training runs , improving e.t.c you suddenly become a toxic elitist in their eyes even though you were just telling them the truth. Remember time is limited and not everyone can play all day so it understandable when people get upset when 1 person ruins a raid just because they want an easy carry or have an inflated ego.

This is why you should always start of with training runs or at least let the raid leader know you are new to something so they wont have unreasonable expectations of you and you wont be deceiving them. Also endgame players are people too, you will be surprised how much they willing to help if you just asked nicely.

D0PAMINE · April 2020

End game players want more people to learn. It's such a small community now and trial groups are in short supply of players to run the Vet HM trials.