People shy away from vet content because of players

Blynjubitr · April 2020

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff. [snip]

I have 2 dedicated PvE guilds rn and when i have low CP players in my group i always try to help them instead of instantly kicking them, same goes for high CP low dps or low exp. Because even if you cannot clear the contet you can help people see their limits and make them realize they can improve in some areas instead of pushing them away from it.

So please be helpfull not toxic. Otherwise we are doomed to play this game alone.

Edit: I should add this because a lot of people misunderstood my point, i am not saying run vet content with complete low CP group. But having few of them around and making them see for themselves they are not ready for the content doesn't really hurt the progress of the content(because usually they are dead most of the time and at the end of the run they understand if they are ready or not.). For example if i have few low cp players in my group, i always invite some guildies that i trust so we can compansate for them. If dps is so undoable you can politely point out to related parties they should work out o certain areas so they can run the place successfully. But i have seen some ugly conversations against new players that i would rather never see again, because it is disgusting.

[edited for baiting/bashing]

iiRenity · April 2020

And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

Exactly. I'm getting close to the 700s in my CP, but I don't do trials. Not because I don't want to, I definitely do--there's so many achievements and gear that I want to get. However, I'm not willing to fight with people who expect perfection from the start and aren't patient with those learning. It's one of the same reasons I avoid most PVP groups. The chance of toxicity is way too high. ESO, for the most part, is a great community, but there's definitely places to improve.

Kilcosu · April 2020

at a certain point in any conversation with someone low cp, who's struggling to get their dps up, it is hard to not sound "elitist" in the sense that you don't want to tell them what their doing wrong, but you know the problem and it sucks when you end up sounding like "that toxic elitist jerk"

so if I do vet content... i do not choose to pug and would rather run with guild mates and more organized groups

Eleandor · April 2020

anything specific you want to say? what recent event? Did anything happen or did you just talk to people who said they're not interested in other people who do vet content? How did you actually know that the community (which one btw? ESO or vet raider or what community are you talking about?) grew more toxic and less helpful?

Also what content? Dungeons? Trials?

Sorry even if you had a point it's hard to respond to a slur of allegations against actually no one.

I mean sure, agreeing with being helpful to others. That should ideally be the case and I don't think anyone would disagree with that

tmbrinks · April 2020

1. The vet groups that run trials, typically aren't "PUG" groups. People who run vet trials have a certain expectation on what they want to happen in the run, and PUGs are not the way to go to get that.

2. There are some toxic "individuals" in all facets of the game, PVP, PVE, RP, Housing, you name it. If it's a part of this game, there are toxic "elitists" there. Your broad generalization of all end-game PVE players as "toxic" is insulting.

3. I was literally running a vet Wayrest I today on my tank, pugging the group. We had 4 players. All over CP 900. Our GROUP DPS on the final boss was 25k. DPS snipe spamming the whole time, I was doing 20% of the group DPS on my tank, just with basic tank skills (puncture, wall, engulfing flames, heavy attacks). Who's fault that is... I don't know. The game for not actually teaching how to do any sort of rotation. But, if I had said anything to those players I would be a "toxic" elistist. When I go in on my healer, I would have more than doubled our group dps in the right set-up. Some of those same players are the ones who would sign up for those PUG vet trial runs, and the group would have absolute ZERO chance of clearing the trial.

4. Kudos to you for wanting to teach. I have tried it as well, but for many of that group, even trying to "teach" some basic skills amounts to being a toxic elitist or you're going against their "play as you want" mantra.

Dracane · April 2020

Some time ago we always kicked low CP players. But I am experienced enough now to carry any veteran dungeon and so is the companion I always play with. So we just ignore and tolerate low CP players even if they add nothing to the group, for we get it done anyway.

I immediately kick people however when they start making demands or when they start acting insolent. I have no time to give advise or wisdom and neither have I time to resurrect them should it not be of the essence.

We all were bad and useless in the beginning and eventually figured things out. Those who do not, will be lost and forgotten, which is the majority.

Raisin · April 2020

This entire topic is far more complex than that, and likely more complex than people can civilly agree on. It's certainly not this black and white.

Gilvoth · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

For a long time i was wondering why it is so rare that you actually see a let alone vet trial group in zone chat a vet dungeon group. And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff. For years i actually knew community was growing into beeing more toxic than more helpfull and friendly. But after recent events it just proves it literally.

I have 2 dedicated PvE guilds rn and when i have low CP players in my group i always try to help them instead of instantly kicking them, same goes for high CP low dps or low exp. Because even if you cannot clear the contet you can help people see their limits and make them realize they can improve in some areas instead of pushing them away from it.

So please be helpfull not toxic. Otherwise we are doomed to play this game alone.

it is true, and the reason some of my friends decided to leave eso.

Gilvoth · April 2020

Dracane wrote: »

I immediately kick people however when they start making demands or when they start acting insolent. I have no time to give advise or wisdom and neither have I time to resurrect them should it not be of the essence.

we wont stand in your way.

Eleandor · April 2020

Dracane wrote: »

Some time ago we always kicked low CP players. But I am experienced enough now to carry any veteran dungeon and so is the companion I always play with. So we just ignore and tolerate low CP players even if they add nothing to the group, for we get it done anyway.

I immediately kick people however when they start making demands or when they start acting insolent. I have no time to give advise or wisdom and neither have I time to resurrect them should it not be of the essence.

We all were bad and useless in the beginning and eventually figured things out. Those who do not, will be lost and forgotten, which is the majority.

kicking low CP player on principle is indeed a toxic and absolutely unnecessary maneuver. There are enough console transplants on PC/NA that kick butt at lvl100 and even with your softening explanation it seems like a bad attitude and the best proof so far that the OP might be right...

justaquickword · April 2020

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

Blynjubitr · April 2020

Kilcosu wrote: »

at a certain point in any conversation with someone low cp, who's struggling to get their dps up, it is hard to not sound "elitist" in the sense that you don't want to tell them what their doing wrong, but you know the problem and it sucks when you end up sounding like "that toxic elitist jerk"

so if I do vet content... i do not choose to pug and would rather run with guild mates and more organized groups

You know you are not the type of people i am talking about, if you don't do pugs that doesn't mean you are elitist.

Blynjubitr · April 2020

tmbrinks wrote: »

1. The vet groups that run trials, typically aren't "PUG" groups. People who run vet trials have a certain expectation on what they want to happen in the run, and PUGs are not the way to go to get that.

2. There are some toxic "individuals" in all facets of the game, PVP, PVE, RP, Housing, you name it. If it's a part of this game, there are toxic "elitists" there. Your broad generalization of all end-game PVE players as "toxic" is insulting.

3. I was literally running a vet Wayrest I today on my tank, pugging the group. We had 4 players. All over CP 900. Our GROUP DPS on the final boss was 25k. DPS snipe spamming the whole time, I was doing 20% of the group DPS on my tank, just with basic tank skills (puncture, wall, engulfing flames, heavy attacks). Who's fault that is... I don't know. The game for not actually teaching how to do any sort of rotation. But, if I had said anything to those players I would be a "toxic" elistist. When I go in on my healer, I would have more than doubled our group dps in the right set-up. Some of those same players are the ones who would sign up for those PUG vet trial runs, and the group would have absolute ZERO chance of clearing the trial.

4. Kudos to you for wanting to teach. I have tried it as well, but for many of that group, even trying to "teach" some basic skills amounts to being a toxic elitist or you're going against they're "play as you want" mantra.

I finished vAS with complete random group having 2 fresh 200cp in group, so optimized groups are not nececcary for simple vSS or vAS run. I am not saying run godslayer with PUGs ofc.

Eleandor · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

PrimusNephilim · April 2020

I disagree with the language of "worthless elitist players" there are poor attitudes playing all levels of ESO content, regardless of their character level and on the other side of the coin, there are also many players not ready to play vet content due to their level and loadout, which drags the team down.

Just my .02

~ Cheers

Kilcosu · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

Kilcosu wrote: »

at a certain point in any conversation with someone low cp, who's struggling to get their dps up, it is hard to not sound "elitist" in the sense that you don't want to tell them what their doing wrong, but you know the problem and it sucks when you end up sounding like "that toxic elitist jerk"

so if I do vet content... i do not choose to pug and would rather run with guild mates and more organized groups

You know you are not the type of people i am talking about, if you don't do pugs that doesn't mean you are elitist.

understood, was just sharing a little bit about how one such as myself gets to the point of not even trying vet content without pre arranged plans.

Dracane · April 2020

Gilvoth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I immediately kick people however when they start making demands or when they start acting insolent. I have no time to give advise or wisdom and neither have I time to resurrect them should it not be of the essence.

we wont stand in your way.

But you are not a pleb, @Gilvoth you would not stand in my way. You would plate my path with blood.

tmbrinks · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

1. The vet groups that run trials, typically aren't "PUG" groups. People who run vet trials have a certain expectation on what they want to happen in the run, and PUGs are not the way to go to get that.

2. There are some toxic "individuals" in all facets of the game, PVP, PVE, RP, Housing, you name it. If it's a part of this game, there are toxic "elitists" there. Your broad generalization of all end-game PVE players as "toxic" is insulting.

3. I was literally running a vet Wayrest I today on my tank, pugging the group. We had 4 players. All over CP 900. Our GROUP DPS on the final boss was 25k. DPS snipe spamming the whole time, I was doing 20% of the group DPS on my tank, just with basic tank skills (puncture, wall, engulfing flames, heavy attacks). Who's fault that is... I don't know. The game for not actually teaching how to do any sort of rotation. But, if I had said anything to those players I would be a "toxic" elistist. When I go in on my healer, I would have more than doubled our group dps in the right set-up. Some of those same players are the ones who would sign up for those PUG vet trial runs, and the group would have absolute ZERO chance of clearing the trial.

4. Kudos to you for wanting to teach. I have tried it as well, but for many of that group, even trying to "teach" some basic skills amounts to being a toxic elitist or you're going against they're "play as you want" mantra.

I finished vAS with complete random group having 2 fresh 200cp in group, so optimized groups are not nececcary for simple vSS or vAS run. I am not saying run godslayer with PUGs ofc.

I'm not saying that PUGs can't do it. It's just a roll of the die. I've been pugging the dungeons on my tank lately for shorter queues, as an actual tank, still somewhat learning the role, but know the dungeons all well enough to know mechanics.

I've had pug groups that were awesome, people 200/300 CP who did great. I've had other groups that were as the one mentioned above. The two DPS were both CP 900+ and were both spamming 1 skill.

If I, personally, am going to spend my time in a veteran TRIAL, I need to know that the people going in are prepared, and know their role. I will teach mechanics all day long, and twice on Sunday. I LOVE running with people who want to learn. It's a sad state that a lot of people take even a single suggestion on how to help a player out as being "toxic" and "elitist"

justaquickword · April 2020

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

morrowjen · April 2020

iiRenity wrote: »

And after having some conversation with some people who are over 810 CP and stilll haven't done many vet content, they always point out it is not because they are not interested in the stuff but they are not interested in people who are doing the stuff.

Exactly. I'm getting close to the 700s in my CP, but I don't do trials. Not because I don't want to, I definitely do--there's so many achievements and gear that I want to get. However, I'm not willing to fight with people who expect perfection from the start and aren't patient with those learning. It's one of the same reasons I avoid most PVP groups. The chance of toxicity is way too high. ESO, for the most part, is a great community, but there's definitely places to improve.

Trials aren't like this at the Craglorn level. Go there and run a few normal PUGs and you will have a blast. Then progress to vet level craglorn trials like vet Hel Ra Citadel. Do that and you will meet plenty of good people who won't stress you. Where things get competitive is when you start doing vet Sunspire, vet Cloudrest, etc. but you can get the gear you need on normal. If you do all that by the time you feel like you're ready to start doing vet trials (other than Hel Ra you should have enough experience and relationships under your belt to ease the transition). You will also meet friendly PVE guilds this way.

You're right to stay away from vet DLCs as those require a lot of teamwork and you need to know the mechs and more than one is unforgiving but you can and should get started with normal trials. For the most part, they are fun and friendly and tbh, I've had more issues with people melting down in vet dungeons than I have in vet trials.

Hit me up in game some time and I'll run a PUG trial with you. I rarely do normals but I will run with you to help you get your feet wet. You will have a lot of fun, I promise.

Eleandor · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

justaquickword · April 2020

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

Royaji · April 2020

Blynjubitr wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

1. The vet groups that run trials, typically aren't "PUG" groups. People who run vet trials have a certain expectation on what they want to happen in the run, and PUGs are not the way to go to get that.

2. There are some toxic "individuals" in all facets of the game, PVP, PVE, RP, Housing, you name it. If it's a part of this game, there are toxic "elitists" there. Your broad generalization of all end-game PVE players as "toxic" is insulting.

3. I was literally running a vet Wayrest I today on my tank, pugging the group. We had 4 players. All over CP 900. Our GROUP DPS on the final boss was 25k. DPS snipe spamming the whole time, I was doing 20% of the group DPS on my tank, just with basic tank skills (puncture, wall, engulfing flames, heavy attacks). Who's fault that is... I don't know. The game for not actually teaching how to do any sort of rotation. But, if I had said anything to those players I would be a "toxic" elistist. When I go in on my healer, I would have more than doubled our group dps in the right set-up. Some of those same players are the ones who would sign up for those PUG vet trial runs, and the group would have absolute ZERO chance of clearing the trial.

4. Kudos to you for wanting to teach. I have tried it as well, but for many of that group, even trying to "teach" some basic skills amounts to being a toxic elitist or you're going against they're "play as you want" mantra.

I finished vAS with complete random group having 2 fresh 200cp in group, so optimized groups are not nececcary for simple vSS or vAS run. I am not saying run godslayer with PUGs ofc.

They might be not neccessary for a run but they are kinda mandatory for the run that I personally will find acceptably smooth. I've done my fair share of wiping in trials, at this point I want a smooth run or I might as well not bother. The times when "just a clear" was good enough for me are long gone.

But this is the paradox of these threads, they are always filled with players who are so against "worthless elitist players". So a reasonable question arises. Why don't you guys just play together with each other? There are so many of you! At least accroding to the forums... How do you keep on running into those "worthless elitist players" all the time!?

ZOS can't force other players to play your way or with you. If you don't like a particular group or the way it is run, leave and find someone you enjoy playing with. This goes both ways, btw.

MLGProPlayer · April 2020

Vet trials are difficult to complete without voice chat.

Console players have a distinct advantage there. On PC, you need to be in a Discord server, which means running with a guild (unless everyone in the group has run the trial multiple times and knows the mechanics inside and out).

Royaji · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

If someone is running pug then they shouldn't expect anything, period. Neither a good run, nor polite and patient teammates. It's all just luck of the draw.

iCaliban · April 2020

5000 hours into this game, ive been hate whispered, insulted, and attacked by more low CP players than seen any sort of toxic behavior by so called elitists. Ive been part of guilds that regularly farm HMs and high end trial achievements. Ive been part of pvp guilds with some of the best in the game, they all take time and help new players constantly.

Bad players who refuse to learn, who feel entitled to be carried through content, who are just "here for the daily" are FAR more toxic.

Sanctum74 · April 2020

So you make a toxic post complaining about people being toxic?

Blynjubitr · April 2020

iCaliban wrote: »

5000 hours into this game, ive been hate whispered, insulted, and attacked by more low CP players than seen any sort of toxic behavior by so called elitists. Ive been part of guilds that regularly farm HMs and high end trial achievements. Ive been part of pvp guilds with some of the best in the game, they all take time and help new players constantly.

Bad players who refuse to learn, who feel entitled to be carried through content, who are just "here for the daily" are FAR more toxic.

I understand your point too, toxicity ofc is not limited by beeing elitist.

justaquickword · April 2020

Royaji wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

If someone is running pug then they shouldn't expect anything, period. Neither a good run, nor polite and patient teammates. It's all just luck of the draw.

Politeness and patience SHOULD be expected. Online or off it. But thanks for helping to reaffirm my decision to stay well away from them.

Royaji · April 2020

justaquickword wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Eleandor wrote: »

justaquickword wrote: »

Yup. The number crunching DPS junkies put me right off.
Always whining in pug groups if they can't run through a dungeon in 5 minutes.

"You were an embarrassment, but well done the rest of you."

"Get back to normal mode."

Just two of the lovely recent comments I've had at the end of recent veteran pug runs..

I can't hardly be bothered with it anymore. I'd rather get kicked around Cyrodiil for hours on end than have anything to do with these people. Giving it the big 'un just because they can flatten a 5m HP sponge faster than the rest of us.

Big deal.

it's a big deal for them (and for me too btw) but that doesn't mean I need to belittle others based on that. That's the issue, not that someone is a dps junky that spends a lot of time and effort on getting better at it.

We'll if DPS is so important and such a big deal then don't run in a pug group. Simple.

how does that make any sense? Can I not care about my dps in a pug group?

Of course you can But if if someone is running pug then then shouldn't expect three other random people to care as much as you do.

I'm sick and tired of getting stranded in the middle of a pug vet dungeon with a healer at 150cp because two others have quit after having to suffer the indignity of a group wipe or two..

If someone is running pug then they shouldn't expect anything, period. Neither a good run, nor polite and patient teammates. It's all just luck of the draw.

Politeness and patience SHOULD be expected. Online or off it. But thanks for helping to reaffirm my decision to stay well away from them.

I would also like to live in a perfect world where everyone is polite, pacient and pulls 50k DPS... And ride a pink fluffy unicorn!

Lumenn · April 2020

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vet trials are difficult to complete without voice chat.

Console players have a distinct advantage there. On PC, you need to be in a Discord server, which means running with a guild (unless everyone in the group has run the trial multiple times and knows the mechanics inside and out).

If anyone bothers to use it. I'm new to vet dungeon grouping(i can solo a couple, still learning, but boss on vet wayrest cuts through me like soggy bread if I'm solo) so I did wayrest today. No one spoke....a vote to kick came EARLY(i have no clue why they wanted to kick the other player. I declined. Pace was hectic but we finished, with the scroll, w/o any deaths until last boss. Think we all took turns being rezzed then)

But yeah, it is a bonus when people aren't too shy to speak. Still can't believe a voice channel isn't part of the game for pc.