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The game doesn't teach people anything: Observations while leveling an alt through dungeons
bharathitman
✭✭✭✭
I was leveling my 16th character during this event, a necro tank and my main mode of leveling was one random normal and one BG every day. In the course of all my random normals I began to observe how people play, and in this case it was obvious that there were many new players in the fold. The free play event, the sale and the pandemic all came in together to increase the player count drastically.
Let me walk you through what happened yesterday in a random normal - Elden Hollow 1
- I was the sub 50 tank, a 60ish cp necro DD, a level 35 sorc DD and a templar healer around 110 CP
- During the entire dungeon the necro DD was just spamming lethal arrow and using the necro transformation ulti . No light attacks, no hail, no class skills whatsoever
- The sorc DD was just heavy attacking with a lightning staff, and there were no pets, no other skills, no ulti
- The templar healer was just using one skill - Breath of Life, and heavy attacks with the resto staff
- The fight time for the first boss - Akash Gro-mal in normal EH1 was 3 mins 30 secs
- No one stepped out of the AoE attacks on the 2nd and the last boss, including the healer. My assumption here is that they expected this to be a healer's job to outheal
- The entire dungeon took around 27 mins to clear (no one was really staying back and listening to any dialogues since only two people, including me, were doing the quest)
This is just one dungeon and my experience with most of the other random normals has been similar. This is just ZoS setting them up for failure.
A simple tutorial at the beginning servers no purpose at all, since most people often forget things at the beginning. There has to be a continuous reinforcement of game mechanics and combat flow even after the tutorial is done. It's not that difficult, WoW has done it very well, it teaches you how the combat flows for each of the class spec so that you have some solid base to start with. I know ZoS likes to say players can play however they want but this is not true when it comes to group content, you can play however you want as long as you follow some rules. In our EH1 team the DD and the healer were CP60+, but even then their understanding of the game was poor, thus resulting in a 27 min EH1. Imagine if the same team was put in a DLC dungeon, it would be a slog fest since some of the bosses have 3-5 mil HP. This is why most people don't even attempt such content , even in normal.
An on-demand tutorial for each class and role can be a good place to start, and an in-game reward can be a given ti players for completing it. The tutorial can simulate various combat scenarios,
a simple rotation etc. A better way would be to make such a tutorial compulsory before the player is allowed to group content.
Edited by bharathitman on April 14, 2020 3:57PM Let me walk you through what happened yesterday in a random normal - Elden Hollow 1
- I was the sub 50 tank, a 60ish cp necro DD, a level 35 sorc DD and a templar healer around 110 CP
- During the entire dungeon the necro DD was just spamming lethal arrow and using the necro transformation ulti . No light attacks, no hail, no class skills whatsoever
- The sorc DD was just heavy attacking with a lightning staff, and there were no pets, no other skills, no ulti
- The templar healer was just using one skill - Breath of Life, and heavy attacks with the resto staff
- The fight time for the first boss - Akash Gro-mal in normal EH1 was 3 mins 30 secs
- No one stepped out of the AoE attacks on the 2nd and the last boss, including the healer. My assumption here is that they expected this to be a healer's job to outheal
- The entire dungeon took around 27 mins to clear (no one was really staying back and listening to any dialogues since only two people, including me, were doing the quest)
This is just one dungeon and my experience with most of the other random normals has been similar. This is just ZoS setting them up for failure.
A simple tutorial at the beginning servers no purpose at all, since most people often forget things at the beginning. There has to be a continuous reinforcement of game mechanics and combat flow even after the tutorial is done. It's not that difficult, WoW has done it very well, it teaches you how the combat flows for each of the class spec so that you have some solid base to start with. I know ZoS likes to say players can play however they want but this is not true when it comes to group content, you can play however you want as long as you follow some rules. In our EH1 team the DD and the healer were CP60+, but even then their understanding of the game was poor, thus resulting in a 27 min EH1. Imagine if the same team was put in a DLC dungeon, it would be a slog fest since some of the bosses have 3-5 mil HP. This is why most people don't even attempt such content , even in normal.
An on-demand tutorial for each class and role can be a good place to start, and an in-game reward can be a given ti players for completing it. The tutorial can simulate various combat scenarios,
a simple rotation etc. A better way would be to make such a tutorial compulsory before the player is allowed to group content.
31
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Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.14 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭bharathitman wrote: »I was leveling my 16th character during this event, a necro tank and my main mode of leveling was one random normal and one BG every day. In the course of all my random normals I began to observe how people play, and in this case it was obvious that there were many new players in the fold. The free play event, the sale and the pandemic all came in together to increase the player count drastically.
Let me walk you through what happened yesterday in a random normal - Elden Hollow 1
- I was the sub 50 tank, a 60ish cp necro DD, a level 35 sorc DD and a templar healer around 110 CP
- During the entire dungeon the necro DD was just spamming lethal arrow and using the necro transformation ulti . No light attacks, no hail, no class skills whatsoever
- The sorc DD was just heavy attacking with a lightning staff, and there were no pets, no other skills, no ulti
- The templar healer was just using one skill - Breath of Life, and heavy attacks with the resto staff
- The fight time for the first boss - Akash Gro-mal in normal EH1 was 3 mins 30 secs
- No one stepped out of the AoE attacks on the 2nd and the last boss, including the healer. My assumption here is that they expected this to be a healer's job to outheal
- The entire dungeon took around 27 mins to clear (no one was really staying back and listening to any dialogues since only two people, including me, were doing the quest)
This is just one dungeon and my experience with most of the other random normals has been similar. This is just ZoS setting them up for failure.
A simple tutorial at the beginning servers no purpose at all, since most people often forget things at the beginning. There has to be a continuous reinforcement of game mechanics and combat flow even after the tutorial is done. It's not that difficult, WoW has done it very well, it teaches you how the combat flows for each of the class spec so that you have some solid base to start with. I know ZoS likes to say players can play however they want but this is not true when it comes to group content, you can play however you want as long as you follow some rules. In our EH1 team the DD and the healer were CP60+, but even then their understanding of the game was poor, thus resulting in a 27 min EH1. Imagine if the same team was put in a DLC dungeon, it would be a slog fest since some of the bosses have 3-5 mil HP. This is why most people don't even attempt such content , even in normal.
An on-demand tutorial for each class and role can be a good place to start, and an in-game reward can be a given ti players for completing it. The tutorial can simulate various combat scenarios,
a simple rotation etc. A better way would be to make such a tutorial compulsory before the player is allowed to group content.
What they could do, what would be in the ESO style of gameplay, is to have a NPC follow the group and give verbal cues about what they should be doing.
For instance, the NPC might yell, "get out of the fire!". Or he might say, "try to dodge those attacks". Or maybe even help with some mechanics.
For instance, while I was learning dungeons, still do this sometimes with a weak group, I would have a browser open with the fight mechanics. Everyone is doing this. After a wipe, the NPC could share some observations.
1 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Did you pull all the adds into a nice heard of death, so the puppers were pushed to use some AOES?
Did you take time to explain anything to your newer group members?
IMO on EH1 you don’t really need a tanky or a healer. If the deeps are hitting low you should of switched to fix that and burn stuff down faster.
With F2P and the event going on people could possibly be new. Also, most were probably wearing out leveled gear affecting recovery and such, just saying’
People learn through other players teaching them.
For a normal dungeon it sounds like you all failed in communication and being efficient....Unless they were having FUN in a normal dungeon.
run with guildies or friendsEdited by xXMeowMeowXx on April 14, 2020 5:16PM3 -
Draxys✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Being clueless about game mechanics is not a style.2013
rip decibel37 -
BXR_Lonestar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm going to be honest, there are probably a lot of people out there who simply don't WANT to learn anything. They just want to play through the game, play through some of the dungeons, enjoy the storylines, and pursue their own fun in the game. And there is nothing wrong with that, so long as those players understand that they're not going to be any use to their teammates in difficult content.
If you want to avoid players like that, best to run with friends or guildmates.8 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Being clueless about game mechanics is not a style.
they arent clueless, and if they dont understand something they will ask for help.2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Being clueless about game mechanics is not a style.
But i guess the most common way to play it anyway - people expect it to work like Skyrim, most of the mechanics and clues about incoming attacks are pretty alien to someone coming from single player TES. You have to think like such a player to understand it -what is the red thing on ground, why am I suddenly dead by no apparent reason, i didn't see anyone and now I'm dead (because it was just not rendered yet on his screen, what didn't hinder the damage to take place of course). this is all pretty confusing for someone new - and they just use what works somewhat for them. This is of course being clueless and no one will help them anyway with it - the OP shows pretty well, that they just don't - only complains, but no help.Edited by Lysette on April 14, 2020 5:09PM4 -
Kawiki✭✭✭
I leveled a Templar healer pretty much the same way. The oddest thing I saw was one person hid in the corner every boss fight and I think went afk. Though he would spring to life after the fight was over. We didn't bother kicking him as we were just blowing through the dungeon but c'mon man....2 -
rotaugen454✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way."Get off my lawn!"3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.6 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sounds like the caliber of player that normal dungeons were made for. If that’s their speed best they stay in that lane otherwise they’re gonna need to practice and do a bit of research. Sometimes that comes with a reality check but that’s healthy and natural.1 -
Eleandor✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
how did you manage to turn the ask for a proper tutorial (which I absolutely support) into a slur agains min/maxing?
Is standing in red a play style that you think falls under "play however you want?" So if I queue up for a random normal and then just look at the rocks at the entrance point and just tell the group I'm exploring the dungeon geography is that still a supported play style under your definition? At some point we have to acknowledge that the dungeon has a objective and achieving that objective is what you sign up for when using the dungeon finder. You can debate if doing it in 2 min and skipping side bosses is part of it but it's a multi player game where people align on achieving something together. So there is a certain level of game mechanics understanding that everyone should have. A tutorial would help with that and mitigate the points the OP is making while not forcing everyone into a meta
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xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I'm going to be honest, there are probably a lot of people out there who simply don't WANT to learn anything. They just want to play through the game, play through some of the dungeons, enjoy the storylines, and pursue their own fun in the game. And there is nothing wrong with that, so long as those players understand that they're not going to be any use to their teammates in difficult content.
If you want to avoid players like that, best to run with friends or guildmates.
But you’re talking about EH1 on normal....If it was a VDLC dungeon I could understand but on normal, nopes.
If the complainer couldn’t solo that and burn everything down, I don’t really see the point of this post.
For pugging normal dungeons if you’re going to play tanky, have one bar for said tanking and the other for dps.
That way you level up the stuff you need and are able to help clear dungeon if deeps are low.
Normal dungeons are for new players to learn and have fun.Edited by xXMeowMeowXx on April 14, 2020 5:25PM0 -
oxygen_thief✭✭✭✭✭
✭even schools or other institutions dont teach people who dont want to learn or change something in their lives. what do you want from a simple video game?1 -
Eleandor✭✭✭BXR_Lonestar wrote: »I'm going to be honest, there are probably a lot of people out there who simply don't WANT to learn anything. They just want to play through the game, play through some of the dungeons, enjoy the storylines, and pursue their own fun in the game. And there is nothing wrong with that, so long as those players understand that they're not going to be any use to their teammates in difficult content.
If you want to avoid players like that, best to run with friends or guildmates.
The point wasn't about avoiding those players though but it was about teaching folks the basics. And they're not "0.9 LA ratio", they are:
- red = bad
- you have 12 skill slots for a reason, try using more than 1
- every role has a part to play, try within your means to play yours as well as possible AND here's how you could do it
those are your guidelines and there's a lot of freedom to still play however you want
10 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.
This is very well put
0 -
Eleandor✭✭✭xXMeowMeowXx wrote: »Did you pull all the adds into a nice heard of death, so the puppers were pushed to use some AOES?
Did you take time to explain anything to your newer group members?
IMO on EH1 you don’t really need a tanky or a healer. If the deeps are hitting low you should of switched to fix that and burn stuff down faster.
With F2P and the event going on people could possibly be new. Also, most were probably wearing out leveled gear affecting recovery and such, just saying’
People learn through other players teaching them.
For a normal dungeon it sounds like you all failed in communication and being efficient....Unless they were having FUN in a normal dungeon.
run with guildies or friends
how is everyone missing the point of the OP? The point is asking for a proper tutorial and not complaining about particular player. What is he supposed to do? Look at everyone's rotation and then offer advice on how to improve it on the spot? He (I assume he, sorry if that's wrong) is saying, ESO should offer a tutorial that teaches the basics of the game. Is that something you'd support or not?
Btw the most efficient way in this case would've been to not communicate and solo the entire thing. Faster but way less fun for everyone else5 -
Eleandor✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.
27 minutes EH1 seems fairly patient to me. And the ask for tutorials for new player doesn't seem elitist to me either.6 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.
27 minutes EH1 seems fairly patient to me. And the ask for tutorials for new player doesn't seem elitist to me either.
The thing is - this is a multiplayer game - and teaching new players who want to do group content would be the job of a guild or more experienced players. In a multiplayer game there is no need for more than a rudimentary tutorial - all else should be done by people themselves. Teaching is a social interaction and should be part of game play.Edited by Lysette on April 14, 2020 5:43PM0 -
Eleandor✭✭✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.
27 minutes EH1 seems fairly patient to me. And the ask for tutorials for new player doesn't seem elitist to me either.
The thing is - this is a multiplayer game - and teaching new players who want to do group content would be the job of a guild or more experienced players. In a multiplayer game there is no need for more than a rudimentary tutorial - all else should be done by people themselves. Teaching is a social interaction and should be part of game play.
well that's the debate. I agree with the OP that a better tutorial can equip player with better basics and basic understanding. And then there is more advanced, situational or dungeon-mechanics specific learning that I agree should be done and taught by your fellow player. Your rotation and not standing in red is up to you to learn. If and when you pick up the Inhibitor Pinion in WGT needs to be explained to you by the folks you play with
Actually as an edit one more point: ESO is complex, fast paced and has a lot of intricacies that aren't obvious. Roll dodge mechanics, what does a roll dodge out of red do, when can I do it, when should I do it. Interrupting mechanics from bosses, how do I know if I can and when should I do it. When do I block, when do I roll dodge etc. Those are basics that are hard to understand and where I think it's not part of someone else's job to monitor your behavior in a dungeon and then realize what you're doing and giving you specific advice. There is a reason that lately Nefas and others have started to fill that gap with youtube videos but finding those would mean you know what you're looking for. A simple tutorial for those would go a long way and make everyone's experience better.
Edited by Eleandor on April 14, 2020 6:14PM1 -
xF1REFL1x✭✭✭I think also for a lot of fully leveled players... there's really no need to get out of anything on normal runs especially the non dlc dungeons. Nothing much can kill you anyway and they just want to finish the daily pledges as fast as possible... considering how long queing up for a dungeon can take.0 -
iiRenity✭✭✭No one stepped out of the AoE attacks on the 2nd and the last boss, including the healer. My assumption here is that they expected this to be a healer's job to outheal
From the Healers,
If you're not a tank GTFO of the red! We can heal, but we can't cure stupid. Our primary job is to support the tank, as they're the ones standing between the group and instadeath.
Sincerely,
HealsPC - NA - @iiRenity - Master Crafter - CP900 - DC Loyalist - PVE & PVP
Lady Renity - Breton Magplar Heals
Bellona Victorias - Imperial DK Tank
Goddamm-Lochness-Monster - Argonian Magden Heals
Primogen Carmilla - Breton Magblade Heals
Mistress Nienna - Dunmer Magsorc DPS
Pisces Seaborne - Breton Magcro Heals1 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Being clueless about game mechanics is not a style.
they arent clueless, and if they dont understand something they will ask for help.
Most people are unaware of their ignorance. That is all clueless is. They have a blind spot. They don't know enough about the game to know what they don't know. They don't even realize their DPS is horrible. There is a level of knowledge needed to identify what you don't know.
I remember forcing my way through HM pug pledge as a tank with 2 horrid DPS. They were really proud of their low numbers because they had no idea. I was supportive throughout and encouraged them when they thought HM would be too hard. It took a real long time on a really easy dungeon (vDCI). I was max CP, but the others weren't even cp160 yet.
Bad players often don't realize how bad they are. I don't say this to be judgmental. I was a bad player once. I also was clueless initially as to what I should be doing. But as a tank, it was really obvious when I wasn't getting it done so I was forced to figure out what I was doing wrong. For a DPS, they might not realize that the group is taking absurdly long to kill anything. They might now realize that it is their fault we have stacks and stacks of adds that aren't dying. They might not realize they are getting one shot and the way to stop dying is to get out of the red.8 -
Everest_Lionheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭rotaugen454 wrote: »I always try to provide friendly advice and not be condescending. Most PUGs I've encountered are glad to get advice IF it is presented the right way.
That is the way it should be - more experienced players teaching the new ones, if they want to be taught. But it requires patience and a non elitist attitude, otherwise it will not lead to much.
I did my first ever PUG last night. Having been on these forums and reading the horror stories about noobs with bad DPS I didn’t touch a single dungeon for the longest time. So last night with my 180CP I finally took the plunge.
Ended up in Fang Lair with an 810CP that was guiding us from boss to boss. Telling us what to watch for, what order to kill and which enemies needed priority for interrupting. The other 2 members were in the 250 and 300 CP range. We stopped for dialogue and he pointed us to the good chests and bags with useful items.
We got wiped on the final boss the first time because we all got caught off guard together. The second time we melted the boss quickly. But having a seasoned vet take control and guide us was a great learning opportunity. So for a first PUG experience I had a great time despite going in with all of these bad preconceptions.6 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Remove penalty for leaving dungeons then.3 -
pelle412✭✭✭✭✭The OP's post is a valid point. There's nothing to teach you how to play this game in any kind of role based capacity. What OP saw in normal dungeons happens just as much in veteran dungeons. Some kind of tutorials for how to play a bit more efficiently than sniping from far away or hard casting frags would go a long way. I don't think most people who play that way choose to, it's more likely the play style they arrived to trying to figure it out on their own. I did note some statistics about my own pledge runs as tank in a basic vet dungeon, City of Ash 1. Over a year of making a note on completion time, the fastest was 10 minutes, and the slowest over 2 hours.5 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The thing is - this is a multiplayer game - and teaching new players who want to do group content would be the job of a guild or more experienced players. In a multiplayer game there is no need for more than a rudimentary tutorial - all else should be done by people themselves. Teaching is a social interaction and should be part of game play.
Eso is also part of the elder scroll games (kinda) which not so surprisingly, brings in elder scroll fans. Which is a single player game.
Tutorial with the mindset of the multiplayer part would be really good for the health of the game.3 -
Sarannah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭My experience has been the complete opposite of yours OP. Although I was making two tanks. Dungeons went fluid and people were doing quite well. Even waited for quest completes after the dungeons most of the time.
Now first let me start by saying: Some classes do not get any good skills at lower levels, combine that with newer players not knowing how to get (many) more skillspoints or even where to put them. And weapon/armor skilllines not showing(ZOS should atleast let the skillwindow state if you are missing skillines in the armor and weapon sections)!!! You really can't blame a new player for being lost there. Not to mention, we cannot see morphs before we level a skill. Meaning new players waste skillpoints on skills, only to find out they might not want to use those skills at all, due to their morphs.
Me myself never use light attacks on my dd's, I always use a one-bar rotation which fits my resource levels, and only use heavy attacks if I do happen to run out of resources(due to blocking, or roll dodging). My dps has never been terrible, and I do interrupt, dodge and avoid mechanics in dungeons.
Anyways, back on point: When I was leveling multiple tanks only in normal dungeons, the groups have been quite smooth. While doing dungeons I made sure to do and wait for the quests. And if I was doing a quest in the open world, I let other people have the chests I found if they were nearby and low level. Same with questbosses and delve bosses, I wait with killing them if I know others are near. So anyone who walks into the bossroom a bit late, does not have to wait five minutes.
Some other points: You can't expect players to learn certain roles until 50, at which level everyone expects them to be at the top of their game already.
Some tips to make dungeons more enjoyable for everyone:
-Wait for the dialogue/quest interactions.
-Explain bosses which need to be explained. (most are straightforward though)
-Point out chests and heavy sacks... besides this being the kind thing to do, it allows others access to better equipment. In return making more out of their chosen role.
-Wipes can happen, happened to me as well(once or twice in many many dungeons). You cannot expect everyone to remember every bossmechanic in the game. Try again, most people learn/remember quickly.
-Do NOT expect every CP 810 to be awesome... some are recently dinged 50, still wearing lower level gear. (For those in this situation: try to find two overland sets which are best for your build/playstyle and farm those before going into dungeons. Making it a better experience for everyone)
-ZOS should allow players to de-select DLC-dungeons in the dungeonfinder. So players can go in those when they are ready for them. Overall a better experience for everyone.
-Let healers and tanks play their role in lower level dungeons, even if you feel it is not (really) needed. Giving them a chance to learn their roles before they reach max level.
-Tip for delves: Do not run through the delves please!! This leaves anyone behind you without any monsters to kill, forcing them to run after you to the delve boss...which you have already killed by the time the following player gets there. Meaning they have no monsters in their delve, and have to wait five minutes for the delve boss to spawn. This feels absolutely terrible!
TLDR: My dungeon leveling experience as a tank has been great, people are nice! And some tips to make everything more enjoyable for everyone.
PS: I agree on the point of a good tutorial, but honestly this tutorial is enough for players who do progress further into the game. If at level 50 they are still not using skills or level 1 gear, a good tutorial won't help them either. I have hardly ever run into players who do not use some form of basic skill rotation, or who never replaced their gear at all.Edited by Sarannah on April 14, 2020 7:23PM0 -
T3hasiangod✭✭✭✭✭no one should be forced to use any playstyle in eso.
freedom of how to and what skills to use is and Should Be the primary Goal.
if someone wants to develop a playstyle on their own then go ahead, if someone asks for guidance on Your playstyle then Good for you. dont force playstyles on anyone. let people have Freedom of choice on how they want to play.
Except when your playstyle interferes with my playstyle. Or when your playstyle directly goes against the objective of a group activity.
This is a multiplayer game. You should be cognizant of the other people you are playing with.
Sure, play how you want when you're doing solo content. But as soon as you step in with other people, you better be prepared to work as a group and play cooperatively. It's no longer about your fun, but the fun of the group. And if your fun is hampering other people's fun, then you need to find other people to go have fun with.19 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭bharathitman wrote: »I was leveling my 16th character during this event, a necro tank and my main mode of leveling was one random normal and one BG every day. In the course of all my random normals I began to observe how people play, and in this case it was obvious that there were many new players in the fold. The free play event, the sale and the pandemic all came in together to increase the player count drastically.
Let me walk you through what happened yesterday in a random normal - Elden Hollow 1
- I was the sub 50 tank, a 60ish cp necro DD, a level 35 sorc DD and a templar healer around 110 CP
- During the entire dungeon the necro DD was just spamming lethal arrow and using the necro transformation ulti . No light attacks, no hail, no class skills whatsoever
- The sorc DD was just heavy attacking with a lightning staff, and there were no pets, no other skills, no ulti
- The templar healer was just using one skill - Breath of Life, and heavy attacks with the resto staff
- The fight time for the first boss - Akash Gro-mal in normal EH1 was 3 mins 30 secs
- No one stepped out of the AoE attacks on the 2nd and the last boss, including the healer. My assumption here is that they expected this to be a healer's job to outheal
- The entire dungeon took around 27 mins to clear (no one was really staying back and listening to any dialogues since only two people, including me, were doing the quest)
This is just one dungeon and my experience with most of the other random normals has been similar. This is just ZoS setting them up for failure.
A simple tutorial at the beginning servers no purpose at all, since most people often forget things at the beginning. There has to be a continuous reinforcement of game mechanics and combat flow even after the tutorial is done. It's not that difficult, WoW has done it very well, it teaches you how the combat flows for each of the class spec so that you have some solid base to start with. I know ZoS likes to say players can play however they want but this is not true when it comes to group content, you can play however you want as long as you follow some rules. In our EH1 team the DD and the healer were CP60+, but even then their understanding of the game was poor, thus resulting in a 27 min EH1. Imagine if the same team was put in a DLC dungeon, it would be a slog fest since some of the bosses have 3-5 mil HP. This is why most people don't even attempt such content , even in normal.
An on-demand tutorial for each class and role can be a good place to start, and an in-game reward can be a given ti players for completing it. The tutorial can simulate various combat scenarios,
a simple rotation etc. A better way would be to make such a tutorial compulsory before the player is allowed to group content.
Tutorials are meant to show you the basics of the game. It can't hold your hand the entire time you play. If they're not learning anything in the intial tutorial forcing more tutorials is just going to annoy the base.0