JusticeSouldier wrote: »

idk wrote: »

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Guys, I'm serious, sure these things can be frystrating first time, but in general, it's improvement of gameplay.

What is improved gameplay for one is a poor move for others.

Cleanses seem to be your biggest issue yet that has clearly not been much of an issue for many as it rarely comes up in the game.

Cloak has numerous hard and soft counters that work extremely well. Start using them if you run solo. If you run in a small group a good leader should be making sure certain beneficial skill is used and a good hard counter is something they can require. Ofc, it has to be a player willing to use it.

Man, i'm not new one. i do all this from different sides of combat, at al classes.
I'm not a content creator, but an analyst and builds creator for many many years.
I talk about holes in the system, where counters are or too weak or doesn't exist at all.
these things allow too much, breaking balance in general.

I'm personally, not a fun of easy ways.
it very hard to see me enjoying some cheezy things because become bored of them too quickly.
But when way become too hard in a bad way - like a fighting vs windmills for a known prototype of Сadwell - it's a time to create discussions.

All that is great. However, you have not properly demonstrated an actual need for this change and considered all angles. First off, I have never seen a need to use cleanses back to back to back to back to back. Second of all, if I found a need to use cleaned that often I would probably have multiple people slot various cleanses. Both make giving them the sorc streak treatment pointless.

Further, Cloak has numerous hard and soft counters that work extremely well making the need to give it the sorc streak treatment completely unnecessary. If the NB is not very skilled they are not going to move very far so they are pretty easy to find much of the time. If the NB is skilled they are not a one-trick wonder to start with and should be more challenging to conquer just like any other skilled player.

Further, the OP pretty much just says you want these skills changed in this manner but gives no actual justification. Maybe you can edit the OP to explain what challenges you are having with these cleanses and the use of counters for cloak. If worthy it would give Zos a reason to look at the idea. Just a thought.

So prety much butcher all the unique class skills in the game. Wow.

@idk you make some excellent points, but as a long time staminaNB I have to disagree. I definitely think there should be a fatigue placed on shadowy disguise, the skill by itself is not bad, but that’s just one skill in a vacuum, what makes shadow disguise effective is using it conjunction with shadow image, speed pots/RAT. Please keep this in mind when you read the next part. Shadowy disguise does not exist in a vacuum.

I personally don’t think nerfing the skill is the answer — my first suggestion is to revert changes to marked target, increase the duration to 8 or 10 seconds, they should have never reduced it in the first place, it was the best hard counter to cloak. Another idea is to actually make mage light and camo Hunter better. That could be increased radius detection longer reveal duration ect. While you do make good points about the counters to shadow disguise those only typically work in group play on a Nb that doesn’t have a source of expedition, and doesn’t use shade strategically.

Now if it were to get a nerf, instead of a full blown cost increase with each consecutive use, I would attach the fatigue to health threshold; if player is below 50 percent health then shadowy disguise starts to cost more. Not only does this idea implement more strategy to its use, I find it would be more rewarding for all players involved.

As it is i can practically be untouchable, which is fine there is definitely a lot happening that makes higher level NB one of the most annoying classes in the game, and it isn’t an easy feat, I sacrifice max resource pool for higher regen in across the board. Even as a stamblade and tristat potions my stam and mag recovery sit at about 2.3k and 1.5 unbuffed.

Also all the counters you listed only work on NB who are willing to engage at a closer range. The trash NB gankers not so much.

But regardless — Cyrodiil needs to be fixed first and foremost. Lol.

@brandonv516 not sure what you mean m8, I am a brawler blade, dw and 2h.

khajiitNPC wrote: »

you make some excellent points, but as a long time staminaNB I have to disagree. I definitely think there should be a fatigue placed on shadowy disguise, the skill by itself is not bad, but that’s just one skill in a vacuum, what makes shadow disguise effective is using it conjunction with shadow image, speed pots/RAT. Please keep this in mind when you read the next part. Shadowy disguise does not exist in a vacuum.

I personally don’t think nerfing the skill is the answer — my first suggestion is to revert changes to marked target, increase the duration to 8 or 10 seconds, they should have never reduced it in the first place, it was the best hard counter to cloak. Another idea is to actually make mage light and camo Hunter better. That could be increased radius detection longer reveal duration ect. While you do make good points about the counters to shadow disguise those only typically work in group play on a Nb that doesn’t have a source of expedition, and doesn’t use shade strategically.

Now if it were to get a nerf, instead of a full blown cost increase with each consecutive use, I would attach the fatigue to health threshold; if player is below 50 percent health then shadowy disguise starts to cost more. Not only does this idea implement more strategy to its use, I find it would be more rewarding for all players involved.

As it is i can practically be untouchable, which is fine there is definitely a lot happening that makes higher level NB one of the most annoying classes in the game, and it isn’t an easy feat, I sacrifice max resource pool for higher regen in across the board. Even as a stamblade and tristat potions my stam and mag recovery sit at about 2.3k and 1.5 unbuffed.

Also all the counters you listed only work on NB who are willing to engage at a closer range. The trash NB gankers not so much.

But regardless — Cyrodiil needs to be fixed first and foremost. Lol.

Not sure how being a stamNB makes any difference as that seems to be your biggest reason for wanting fatigue added to cloak but you do not bother to explain how that is relevant.

I suggest it is completely immaterial what class you play. PvP in this game was designed to be group-based. Even BGs are 4v4v4 so the class on person plays or if it is stam vs mag makes no difference. A good group leader will organize skills across the group which is the first and most important point that makes your choice of build beside the point. Not to leave out there are stam based counters available to the NB.

If the excuse is I run solo then that is equally beside the point. First I would point you to my explanation that PvP in this game is designed to be group-based. Second, I would say when one chooses to run solo they make a choice to have less available to them. If they chose to not swap out a skill to have a cloak counter available to them then that is just to bad. It is when I run solo I often slot a cloak counter and use it effectively. If I do not have one slotted when a NB cloaks then oh well, it was my choice.

Edit: As for most cloak counters working only close range then I have to ask why are you running a ranged only build in PvP. Most fights I have seen have been close-ranged unless someone is up on a wall. Either way. go after them if you want to kill them.

@idk I guess it isn’t relevant, in the sense that I can sustain both cloak and shade as a stamina character. Completely eluding some of the biggest zergs and premade groups. No repercussions to my ability. Which is pretty clear and cut.

Yes the game is geared for group play, you’ll have a lot easier time as a group pulling a Nb from cloak than solo, not necessarily a good Nb, but a Nb nonetheless. But group vs solo is not apples to apples. Also your idea of how the game should be played means little to those who play it how they want.

I don’t know what you want me to say — as I have been concise about my reasoning. The counters don’t work well or consistently enough. You can cry counter until you’re red in the face. The best counter to Nb was other Nb with marked target lasting longer than 4 seconds. Camo Hunter and Mage light just aren’t that good. I would prefer no nerf, but that’s why I suggested something else instead of a blanket nerf. Anyhow, I can tell from your demeanor you’re a know it all, so I’ll leave that there. The best counter is detect pots but even then with mobility in the game good luck catching me.

1. The counters are garbage.
2. Give marked target increased duration.
3. Make counters that exist more reliable.
4. By increasing the difficulty to escape you make gameplay more rewarding for all parties involved.

JusticeSouldier wrote: »

Heresjohny wrote: »

i dont understand most of this stuff but to me it is sounding like you Mainly play a nightblade and are getting countered by some of these things so you want them changed but are throwing in one of the skills from the class you mainly play(most play not saying you constantly play it just you prefer that over other) and the reason im saying this is most of your post are going back to Detect pots or NB needing a buff or the fact your first class just so happend to be a nightblade? (idk maybe its me but alot of these things seem to point to one thing lol) But IMO after what i read i can say i dont play alot of classes so can only refer to a few. but Sorc shields are strong and should maybe see a bit of a change unless they change something else in the class. Detect pots Shouldnt show you a AOE in which you will be detected if you go near then what is the point of Wasting gold on something to have it countered by a class Skill(if that is what you mean by making it able to be seen if they have a detect pot going)? makes no sense to me imo if someone is willing to spend GOLD on finding you seems fine to me they have that option and you frankly need to pick up your skirt and run like the wind forest. the damage shield for wardens is a nice skill to avoid the nightblade bow gankers that 3 shot you in less then 2 seconds and they still do enough damage to where they could go threw that shield and still do about half a persons health(in no CP dont know what its like in CP) but ya just my two cents and thoughts on some of it i do mainly No CP cyrodil so i dont know what its like in cp

read and understand please before writing anything. it's a rule for every healthy person! also, read my signature before writing suggestions hows sounding something u "saw" here.

So they missed that small signature. They still have an opinion and considering the OP of this thread offers nothing to justify the request the comment you just quoted makes just as much sense.

After 6 days and we are still on page 2 it does not seem many are rallying to the idea suggested.