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Some (targeting adjustment) ideas for Necros

WAMB0
WAMB0
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just a few quick ideas to make necros more "bearable", because I often feel that blastbones or spyhon are greyed out because the game considers your crosshair not on a (correct) target, or does not update fast enough / with delay to crosshair movements.

Blastbones:
  • If the crosshair is not focused on an enemy at the time of cast, let it behave as an AOE ability, the blastbone spawns, runs to the position the crosshair aims at and explodes there ("basic AOE effect")
  • This will make the secondary effect of the magicka morph useless, but give it some usability to hit more targets instead )
  • If the crosshair is on an enemy... well... just try to make it work reliably as it sometimes does right now ("current blastbones in golden armour")

Syphon
  • If crosshair is on a corpse, use that corpse to siphon. (as is)
  • If its on an enemy, use the corpse closest to the enemy. (similar to how Force Pulse secondary effect or others work)
  • If its not on any target, use the closest corpse to the crosshair to siphon. (Similar to effects like orbs, they have their own position and would hit the closest)
What do you think?
Edited by WAMB0 on April 4, 2020 6:50PM
  • precambria
    precambria
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    Line of sight and breaking tethers will still be a problem, the corpse mechanic should not be the primary design philosophy of necromancers but it is, imagine having a Dot in place of the damaging tether which while nice for making geometric patterns with other necro is impractical in far to many real play situations.

    The majority of the necro class design works against the necro, it does not add the intended additional skill to playing the class it just breaks half their kit and prevents the overpowered abilities from being addressed, nobody has actually fought the necro class yet as it was designed to be played because it is extremely flawed.


    Possible solution. Corpses are now a stacking buff, lets say up to 4 that the necro carries with them at all times they are both generated by necro spells (the same ones they currently are) and collected from the environment via bitter harvest and passive like Death Gleaning OR Death Scythe. These Corpses can add additional effects to spells on consumption, if you have a corpse in your stack and use a spell with additional effect it will cost 1corpse to gain the effect, or if you use a spell which creates them you gain 1 corpse on it's completion.
    • Bitter harvest would be, on use draw from corpses (either IN YOUR STACK or from the ground if present) to gain effect (deaden pain/potency morphs and the heal) gain +1/2 corpse per use IF there are recently deceased enemies available, increases corpse carrying capacity by 2. This way you could still use the ability without ambient corpses, it would keep the lore element of harvesting bones from the dead as well as the gain from using this ability at when there is many bodies for additional uptime for heal/effect while also making sure it does not make the whole corpse stack mechanic pointless by limiting the stacks granted by it's use.
    • Shocking siphon would be, a one target only applied DOT, if a corpse is consumed there is an additional effect (Det siphon would explode on completion of the Dot, Mystic siphon would give a mana return and small splash damage for targets next to the affected target)
    • The on third cast mechanic is NOT good it adds nothing to the player experience and reduces the overall reliability of these spells
    • Skulls would consume corpse for additional effect change the effect in this case to be, . Necro needs a STUN this is not a up for debate thing it is making the class not fun to play to not have a class CC, this would be a good place to put the stun it would both encourage players to use the actual necro kit and prevent just dumping corpses on to a spammable that would be overtuned if used in that way.
    • Death Scythe, now becomes an execute ability that generates corpses if the target dies to it, it's a scythe it should harvest and because it is an AOE this cannot be a executioner level damage increase a possible solution is to make it apply a very strong rapidly ticking DOT/debuff to targets in execute range (which would also allow for corpse generation on targets that die to other damage because it is a debuff) this would also fit the theme of necro as a dot class.
    • Restoring tether would be a HoT spell that consumes a corpse for additional effect, this is one spell where the tether might be something to keep to allow either the caster or the receiving target to position themselves to have the "link" cross over more targets, this would allow for keeping this design element but adding the option for skilled play by maximizing the effectiveness by including other players in the positioning minigame.
    • Graves could still consume corpses in the casting area for additional damage, the self synergy would be a ability that you need to consume a corpse from your stack to use.
    • Grave grasp and Bone totem will remain highly situational abilities that do not serve as a class CC due to flight time and arm time. Empowering grasp needs to automatically buff all summoned pets with the empowering effect to be useful having to aim a slow moving spell at pets which position themselves almost always behind you is extremely impractical and prevents niche "petcro" builds from existing.

    Having a corpse bag rather than environmental corpses be the primary mechanic for necromancer would fix the class in so many ways, you could scrap on "on third cast" ability thing since recasting spells in this game are bad let alone three such casts, it would give necro severely needed mobility. It would free necro from being literally CHAINED to totems and corpses which they have virtually no control over, you could keep the mechanic of certain spells generating corpses, by allowing players to consume a corpse for the desired effect it would add additional skill to choices of when to activate certain buffs or which order to use spells rather than having your kit GREYED OUT or break on LOS or other things that only serve to burden the player. By having a limited amount of corpses it will control the power of these spells but in a way that makes them useful rather than painful to use, it will maintain the use of corpses in the environment as a play element for certain spells which it makes sense for while maintaining a skill element for expending them wisely. You could keep the tether mechanic in restoring tether where it makes sense too, the net gain in fun would be immense there would be no loss of the current design those elements would just be readjusted to make them fun additions to the class rather than a literal chore to try and make them work. It would also not really interfere with newer players who would likely just spam the corpse stack down and gas out till they learn to manage them, at least they would be using the class kit and forming a rotation.

    OK, than what about how OP necro would be if their kit was usable we need to address those things in order to ever get the class fixed, one way to do this would be in regards to the passive flat % ability gains that are tied in to tethers and harvest have them only be active for a limited duration ON consumption of a corpse with their respective spells, need 3% dmg? use one of your corpse on tether to get it for 5 seconds, same with the much maligned damage reduction, this would gate the uptime and allow for skilled play. Major defile, it needs to be split in to minor defile and minor vulnerability or some variant players who don't have an answer for 30% healing reduction could at least mitigate 8% dmg and 15% healing by using the right kit, those debuffs are fairly present already and are far less broken even in combination.
    Edited by precambria on April 4, 2020 6:12PM
  • WAMB0
    WAMB0
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    precambria wrote: »
    Line of sight and breaking tethers will still be a problem, the corpse mechanic should not be the primary design philosophy of necromancers but it is, imagine having a Dot in place of the damaging tether which while nice for making geometric patterns with other necro is impractical in far to many real play situations.

    The majority of the necro class design works against the necro, it does not add the intended additional skill to playing the class it just breaks half their kit and prevents the overpowered abilities from being addressed, nobody has actually fought the necro class yet as it was designed to be played because it is extremely flawed.

    Not sure whether you actually read more than the titel, but "regular" line of sight would not be an issue, if the tether would be autotargeted either by proximity to target or by "aoe cast" (remember, latter one works rather fine atm).
    As for tether breaking... to my knowledge that is not really an issue (or hardly perceived by anybody). Its still an area of effect ability, with the difference that you not just simply walk out, but that it has a high maximum range but needs unobstructed (by buildings) way to you.

    As for the rest, you describe that the whole philosophy of an newly introduced class is wrong (in your opinion, which you forget to mention), and it shall be dumbed down to a simple "buff on player" mechanic. No, thank you.

    I appreciate your own thoughts, but they are not at all related to what I posted. I should have maybe asked
    "What do you think about THESE IDEAS"

    So lets pls keep the topic about those...
  • precambria
    precambria
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    It would work better how you described it than it does now at least you could activate a tether from behind you where the corpses from armor or mender tend to drop without having to do a running 360 while kiting, the issue of LoS breaking them is a massive one at least in PvP where enemies are not just following your/ tank position and using LoS constantly.

    Turning it in to a stack and spend resource would add a mechanic that can actually work properly in a game where mobility is essential, it would add actual skill to use instead of just *is there corpse on ground if not spell not work* and a positioning minigame which is super counter intuitive, you could still collect corpses from the ground and fix the necro kit in the process. If all you do is fight overland bots the class is fine but it falls apart the second you introduce dynamic encounters.
  • Runefang
    Runefang
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    Blastbones needing a target is fine I think, at least that isn't the part I struggle with. I just don't understand why they didn't just add a timer to prevent overcast rather than relying on the blastbones summon disappearing first, that for me would solve all issues.

    Your siphon ideas are good, I'm not sure it doesn't just need a complete rework instead though.
  • WAMB0
    WAMB0
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    I cannot accept line of sight breaking as a bug as its obviously an intended mechanic.
    Its the same as a templar running out of his rune focus, an enemy running out of your AOE effects, If you cant handle it (produce new corpses and tether those (its off GCD)) then dont use tethers.

    @Runefang I can understand the reasoning behind it. If the blastbones would just be on a cooldown, it would mean based on movement and so on there could be multiple up at the same time. Imagine kiting a blastbone and then getting stunned to have 3-4 of them explode in your face. That would be gamebreaking.
    The other option would only be to make them into "necro shalks" if they had to explode exactly after the cooldown, which is also not a viable strat (who wants just copied skills),
  • precambria
    precambria
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    Templar is far less designed around rune focus than necro is around tether, the whole intended play style was to summon BB than activate tether right when it hits so you can position it on your damage target, the passives of the necro class are very dependent on these things working and they just are not good, nobody wants to have a greyed out spell on their bar it's the reason you made this thread. The reason a rework is the only real solution is because yes it would be nice to have tethers that can pull from behind I would probably use them but the fact it gets LoSed over a tiny bump in the ground is NOT a L2P issue it is a design flaw that causes use to lose our effectiveness and unique playstyle.
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