The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Dizzying Swing should not have changed
-
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's crafty , NMA , fulll buffed.
Jabs and sweeps are 20% more total damage than dizzy at 20% longer channel. We have a 1sec GCD on abilities that matches jabs/sweeps yes; but that .2 seconds allows for a medium weave to register. If a target has major evasion, jabs/sweeps is 5% less than dizzy. Both have their issues with landing, and with lag but dizzy was just made slightly easier than it was by only doing its target check once rather than both activating and finish.
I know these abilities outpace the others. Force pulse or the weapon sets that boost abilities are the only other things worth using and ranged attacks only really make sense to me on a sorc which can kite, even if that means someone gets close to them a whole split second after a gap closer. (Oh god lord forbid) . Or a snipe spammer staying in the back but I'd argue that's not effective alone.
That's why you see so much dizzy and so many templars. People are already hard to kill though; short of zerging them or the ridiculous LAG. These ranged spammable are not going to cut it. Then you add on that magicka only gets staffs, which are like giving melee only bows with different effects as far as scaling goes.
The TLDR is we need more options, particularly melee spammable and magick melee scaling weapons, short of class redesigns that make ranged synergize more than just slap a range spammable on them and call them good.
What buffs specifically? I don't play templar so I'm unfamiliar with the class, but I have one on PTS & I'm not getting close to the numbers you mentioned for Force Pulse.
TBH Im not sure what I did. I had moved things on my build to put a fire staff on there and get the ability and it looks more like 11k when I do it now.
This is my Magblade I havent touched for ages. I just slapped Force pulse where I usually have Merciless
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=219339
Edited by technohic on March 14, 2020 4:49PM0 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's crafty , NMA , fulll buffed.
Jabs and sweeps are 20% more total damage than dizzy at 20% longer channel. We have a 1sec GCD on abilities that matches jabs/sweeps yes; but that .2 seconds allows for a medium weave to register. If a target has major evasion, jabs/sweeps is 5% less than dizzy. Both have their issues with landing, and with lag but dizzy was just made slightly easier than it was by only doing its target check once rather than both activating and finish.
I know these abilities outpace the others. Force pulse or the weapon sets that boost abilities are the only other things worth using and ranged attacks only really make sense to me on a sorc which can kite, even if that means someone gets close to them a whole split second after a gap closer. (Oh god lord forbid) . Or a snipe spammer staying in the back but I'd argue that's not effective alone.
That's why you see so much dizzy and so many templars. People are already hard to kill though; short of zerging them or the ridiculous LAG. These ranged spammable are not going to cut it. Then you add on that magicka only gets staffs, which are like giving melee only bows with different effects as far as scaling goes.
The TLDR is we need more options, particularly melee spammable and magick melee scaling weapons, short of class redesigns that make ranged synergize more than just slap a range spammable on them and call them good.
What buffs specifically? I don't play templar so I'm unfamiliar with the class, but I have one on PTS & I'm not getting close to the numbers you mentioned for Force Pulse.
TBH Im not sure what I did. I had moved things on my build to put a fire staff on there and get the ability and it looks more like 11k when I do it now.
This is my Magblade I havent touched for ages. I just slapped Force pulse where I usually have Merciless
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=219339
Pretty racional build. Then see this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=194092
It's pretty rational build to for stam, has more stam regen, more weapon damage and more ressists than yours build. Tooltip on dizzy 17,9k.
We are not talking about comparing the same stats, because its like saying when you limit horse power of Lambo it will ride just a bit faster than Toyota. But Lambo just like stamina has more power and in normal situatuion outdamages magicka.
Next thing:
On your build Elemental Weapon (from psijic skill line) has tooltip of 11,9k - a bit higher than crushing shock.
On my build Crushing Weapon - stam morph of the same skill has 13,9k tooltip, dizzy on that build has tooltip 17,9 k - 4k damage more - it scales better as the gap increases. (On a side note Onslaught has just 5k higher tooltip, its the difference between spamable and ultimate, almost the same difference like between crushing and dizzy)
Why, so powerfull spamable skill has to do anything more than dealing damage?
PS. This build is not mine. Its a copy of someone from the forums.Edited by Mayrael on March 15, 2020 11:38AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge0 -
Lole✭✭✭That's crafty , NMA , fulll buffed.
Jabs and sweeps are 20% more total damage than dizzy at 20% longer channel. We have a 1sec GCD on abilities that matches jabs/sweeps yes; but that .2 seconds allows for a medium weave to register. If a target has major evasion, jabs/sweeps is 5% less than dizzy. Both have their issues with landing, and with lag but dizzy was just made slightly easier than it was by only doing its target check once rather than both activating and finish.
I know these abilities outpace the others. Force pulse or the weapon sets that boost abilities are the only other things worth using and ranged attacks only really make sense to me on a sorc which can kite, even if that means someone gets close to them a whole split second after a gap closer. (Oh god lord forbid) . Or a snipe spammer staying in the back but I'd argue that's not effective alone.
That's why you see so much dizzy and so many templars. People are already hard to kill though; short of zerging them or the ridiculous LAG. These ranged spammable are not going to cut it. Then you add on that magicka only gets staffs, which are like giving melee only bows with different effects as far as scaling goes.
The TLDR is we need more options, particularly melee spammable and magick melee scaling weapons, short of class redesigns that make ranged synergize more than just slap a range spammable on them and call them good.
What buffs specifically? I don't play templar so I'm unfamiliar with the class, but I have one on PTS & I'm not getting close to the numbers you mentioned for Force Pulse.
TBH Im not sure what I did. I had moved things on my build to put a fire staff on there and get the ability and it looks more like 11k when I do it now.
This is my Magblade I havent touched for ages. I just slapped Force pulse where I usually have Merciless
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=219339
Pretty racional build. Then see this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=194092
It's pretty rational build to for stam, has more stam regen, more weapon damage and more ressists than yours build. Tooltip on dizzy 17,9k.
We are not talking about comparing the same stats, because its like saying when you limit horse power of Lambo it will ride just a bit faster than Toyota. But Lambo just like stamina has more power and in normal situatuion outdamages magicka.
Next thing:
On your build Elemental Weapon (from psijic skill line) has tooltip of 11,9k - a bit higher than crushing shock.
On my build Crushing Weapon - stam morph of the same skill has 13,9k tooltip, dizzy on that build has tooltip 17,9 k - 4k damage more - it scales better as the gap increases. (On a side note Onslaught has just 5k higher tooltip, its the difference between spamable and ultimate, almost the same difference like between crushing and dizzy)
Why, so powerfull spamable skill has to do anything more than dealing damage?
PS. This build is not mine. Its a copy of someone from the forums.
That’s the whole problem, stamina spammables are in general better than mag spams... and now the little spoiled stamina players want even more utility on an allrdy overpowered skill that’s insane...
No spammable should have cc on it and that’s a fact it makes absolutely 0 sense, if you want cc then equip a cc ability.
Dizzy needs to lose all cc components on it and nerf the dmg to be equal to the other spammables, buff all magicka spammables to be on the same dmglvl as stamspams
And yes you are right in general stamplayers have more resist can dodge roll more etc... if anything than magicka spams should do more dmg than stam and not the other way arround
And once again I say:
There is a reason why most stamina builds are outperforming their magicka counterpartEdited by Lole on March 15, 2020 12:44PM3 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's crafty , NMA , fulll buffed.
Jabs and sweeps are 20% more total damage than dizzy at 20% longer channel. We have a 1sec GCD on abilities that matches jabs/sweeps yes; but that .2 seconds allows for a medium weave to register. If a target has major evasion, jabs/sweeps is 5% less than dizzy. Both have their issues with landing, and with lag but dizzy was just made slightly easier than it was by only doing its target check once rather than both activating and finish.
I know these abilities outpace the others. Force pulse or the weapon sets that boost abilities are the only other things worth using and ranged attacks only really make sense to me on a sorc which can kite, even if that means someone gets close to them a whole split second after a gap closer. (Oh god lord forbid) . Or a snipe spammer staying in the back but I'd argue that's not effective alone.
That's why you see so much dizzy and so many templars. People are already hard to kill though; short of zerging them or the ridiculous LAG. These ranged spammable are not going to cut it. Then you add on that magicka only gets staffs, which are like giving melee only bows with different effects as far as scaling goes.
The TLDR is we need more options, particularly melee spammable and magick melee scaling weapons, short of class redesigns that make ranged synergize more than just slap a range spammable on them and call them good.
What buffs specifically? I don't play templar so I'm unfamiliar with the class, but I have one on PTS & I'm not getting close to the numbers you mentioned for Force Pulse.
TBH Im not sure what I did. I had moved things on my build to put a fire staff on there and get the ability and it looks more like 11k when I do it now.
This is my Magblade I havent touched for ages. I just slapped Force pulse where I usually have Merciless
https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=219339
Pretty racional build. Then see this:
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=194092
It's pretty rational build to for stam, has more stam regen, more weapon damage and more ressists than yours build. Tooltip on dizzy 17,9k.
We are not talking about comparing the same stats, because its like saying when you limit horse power of Lambo it will ride just a bit faster than Toyota. But Lambo just like stamina has more power and in normal situatuion outdamages magicka.
Next thing:
On your build Elemental Weapon (from psijic skill line) has tooltip of 11,9k - a bit higher than crushing shock.
On my build Crushing Weapon - stam morph of the same skill has 13,9k tooltip, dizzy on that build has tooltip 17,9 k - 4k damage more - it scales better as the gap increases. (On a side note Onslaught has just 5k higher tooltip, its the difference between spamable and ultimate, almost the same difference like between crushing and dizzy)
Why, so powerfull spamable skill has to do anything more than dealing damage?
PS. This build is not mine. Its a copy of someone from the forums.
Yeah my stamden has tooltips like that. They're running it with full fury up. But once again, I'm saying other spammables need brought up. Everyone knows jabs and dizzy are better. Stam and magicka difference from sets like fury and melee magicka not having to use the equivalent of a bow base damage, are a different subject.
And fury is not up 100% of the time. It's at full stack more like 54% so you could get pretty close with New Moon/clever alchemist. It highlights the problem though.that I keep trying to get at. What makes this uptime no big deal is pressure is down to where it barely matters. What matters is hitting your burst combo at full proc.
Edit: I also see that have their target armor set at 18200. I have mine always set to 30000 which is more normal. To.see then that in PVP. I dont think it effects tooltip but does effective weapon damage.Edited by technohic on March 15, 2020 2:08PM0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imagine complaining about dizzying swing now that the skill is completely garbage compared to what it used to be. Every stamina class that has a somewhat good spammable (see stamplar and stamblade) doesn't use dizzying swing. And with ZOS nerfing off balance to the ground you're already forced to slot a pure cc skill (often turn evil) unless you only want to be able to stun your target once every 20 seconds......
This community is a joke.3 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭i like this version the most with the offbalance changes. it is basically toned down and pretty much balance now1 -
Sneakers✭✭✭My stamcros max self buffed TT for blast bones is 27300 dmg. Dizzy is ~19500
(8000ish wep dmg)
My Magsorc max self buffed TT for Ice comet is 19000 (Hence I use overload instead)
With that said range is an advantage since it is easier to land range hits then melee ones in this lagg game. At least I feel like it is. Even so it is massivly unbalanced.
The comments ppl made about magtemplars are so true as well. Their insanly overloaded jab keeps them competative.0 -
Lole✭✭✭My stamcros max self buffed TT for blast bones is 27300 dmg. Dizzy is ~19500
(8000ish wep dmg)
My Magsorc max self buffed TT for Ice comet is 19000 (Hence I use overload instead)
With that said range is an advantage since it is easier to land range hits then melee ones in this lagg game. At least I feel like it is. Even so it is massivly unbalanced.
The comments ppl made about magtemplars are so true as well. Their insanly overloaded jab keeps them competative.
Range factor cant make such a massive difference, a spammable does more dmg than a 200 ult.. not do mention that every melee has a spammable gapcloser while nobody besides sorc has a disengage
They need to nerf the dmg of dizzy to the point where it’s dmg is even to the other spammables, and take off the god damn cc of it... if you wanna cc then equip a cc ability like magicka classes have to do too...Edited by Lole on March 20, 2020 6:32PM1 -
JSlayer211✭✭✭Also, Jabs is undodgeable while you can definitely dodge away from Dizzy. You can even block Dizzy, blocking jabs will destroy your stamina pool in no time flat.0
-
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭This patch there is now usually a 3-5 second cast time for D Swing in Cyro. It needs to have its damage tripled, or quintupled.
@Lole How about we give D Swing the exact same functionality as C Frags, but it costs Stam and does Physical. Deal?
As a Day 1 D Swing Spammer I have no clue which "change" this post was about, I lost track, but at least nobody makes fun of me for using this skill like they did in 2018.
Edited by Urzigurumash on April 3, 2020 7:35PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Sir_Valk✭✭Stamina users have less options then magicka users, i don't know why they nerfed it, it was the only skill that is effective against anyone, and the options are limited. But you know Zenimax wants to nerf everything people complain about, because they can't counter it.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They need to buff the class spammables other than sweeps/jabs. Will help both stam characters have a choice, and help magicka in general be competetive other than just in a ball group.
I will also say that the opinion of abilities being overloaded in the devs budgeting has been the wrong direction and rather other abilities should have been thought of as being underloaded. I mean 5+1 abilities on 2 bars I really like for responsive combat (lol cant say that straight face right now) but when 3-4 of those on average are buffs to apply and keep up; it's a bit ridiculous to talk about APM like that's the problem of skill gaps.Edited by technohic on April 4, 2020 2:40PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hilarious comments. No dizzy isn’t OP and needs a buff, yes I only use it because it’s the best spammable.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Lole✭✭✭Hilarious comments. No dizzy isn’t OP and needs a buff, yes I only use it because it’s the best spammable.
So you want the best spammable to get buffed ? That makes legit 0 sense... it’s supposed to be a spammable aka a filler, right now it ccs and does a lot of dmg, to the point that I can kill 99% of players in bgs just by spamming dizzy... if you think that that is okay then I honestly feel sorry for you my friend.
It shouldn’t have any cc on it, if it does then all other spammables should have it aswell to balance it out. In the end your bars are an important “resource“ everyone that doesn’t use dizzy is on a disadvantage cuz they need to equip a cc ability to make up for the loss of cc on dizzy0 -
BaiterOfZergs✭✭✭✭✭I’m pretty sure that comment was being sarcastic/satiricalZerg of House Smallscale, First of his name, wielder of Volendrung, battleground hero, Cyrodiil butcher, the swifft footed, OG of the Templars and first pvpers, defender of scrolls and baiter of zergs.2 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭It shouldn’t have any cc on it, if it does then all other spammables should have it aswell to balance it out. In the end your bars are an important “resource“ everyone that doesn’t use dizzy is on a disadvantage cuz they need to equip a cc ability to make up for the loss of cc on dizzy
The CC on D Swing doesn't hold a candle to most class CC skills. These days I find it hard to believe anybody relies on the D Swing stun as their only CC and doesn't constantly contemplate another more reliable CC on their bar. I might just be spoiled on CCs as an old StamDK.
Edited by Urzigurumash on April 5, 2020 6:44PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭Hard choices being made in PVP right now for stam players, dizzy shalks/BB/fossil than dawnbreaker or dawnbreaker than dizzy than executioner it must be overwhelming2 -
Daffen✭✭✭✭I miss the old dizzy swing with knockback effect with longer cast time and had 20k tooltip instead of the 16k we get now.1
-
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imagine complaining about dizzying swing now that the skill is completely garbage compared to what it used to be. Every stamina class that has a somewhat good spammable (see stamplar and stamblade) doesn't use dizzying swing. And with ZOS nerfing off balance to the ground you're already forced to slot a pure cc skill (often turn evil) unless you only want to be able to stun your target once every 20 seconds......
This community is a joke.
Oh mu oh my, so you need to slot skill just for CC like other mortals (magicka users) do for years? Like fear? Like Destructive clench? Like rune prison? Fossilize? Oh my oh my poor you...Edited by Mayrael on April 7, 2020 8:36AMSay no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge2