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What maximum cost increase in abilities would you tolerate for the new vampire stage 4?
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brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%Austinseph1 wrote: »Honestly anything over 5 and all mine will get a cure, I got vampires BECAUSE they help sustain, now I doubt it's even worth it for rp reasons.. cost increases are dumb.
That's the problem though. Providing buffs with little drawback makes it a skill line that everyone has to have to really compete.
I used to have Vampire on all my characters too because of the sustain (and also when RaT wasn't a thing). It shouldn't feel like a requirement.
NMA is an example of this right now. Nothing comes close for what you get out of the set - and a 5% increase on 1 bar is a drop in the bucket for a drawback.Edited by brandonv516 on April 3, 2020 7:49PM0 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭11-15%I've been thinking... Why not tie the non vampire ability cost increase to that vampire ability that gives you the spell/weapon damage?PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%No idea really, have to see how it plays and how comfortable it is. 20% is a lot, but I’d try and use as many vampire abilities as possible on classes that have abilities that don’t cost mag or stam: warden, NB and necro.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭6-10%I think 6-8% would be a good compromise. I watched a video earlier and managed to screen cap the tooltips as they flashed by and if they stay were they are at vamp will be strong.
Cold Blood toggle ability will max out at at 10 sec giving 1920 w&s damage while costing 1728 hps.
Blood Mist is 1044 magic per second toggle, reduces damage by 75%, does 2437 damage in 5m radius, heals for all damage caused. Gives immovable buff. You cannot be healed by any other ability and magic regen is disabled while active.
Stupify costs 2925 and is 7 meter cone stun that lasts five seconds and snares 53% for another 5 after.
Brain Drain 3 second channel, cost 3343 magika does 16416 damage heals 60% missing health and restores 20% missing magicka with 22 meter range.
Bat Scion cost 256 ult last 20 seconds, gives 10K max magic, stam, health buff, heals to full on activation, heals for 33% all damage done and bats do 2571 damage to "nearby" enemies. No range given in tooltip but from video looks to be 6-8 meters.Edited by itscompton on April 4, 2020 12:04AM1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1-5%
If we still had the regen it would be ok at ten percent, but losing our regen and paying ten percent more is too much. Maximum should be 7 tops, but since we lost our regen, there is no reason to have any increase really. 5 is the only tolerable amount really, 7 is pushing it.
I was just going off the stuff we saw and calculating from there. I personally would like it if they scrapped the ability cost increase/decrease all together and added a reduced healing received debuff instead. Would make it harder to keep up with the vampire's powerful health cost ability while not destroying people's ability to sustain.
They could simply reintroduce the 75 percent health regen debuff and be done with it imo. I was totally fine with that. It was enough that you couldnt really be a health regen tank, but not enough that you couldnt work around. I feel like they went a bit too debuff heavy, but will reserve final judgement for pts. I really wish they wouldnt have released those special builds to certain streamers , all they did was cause, once again , extra stress for no reason.
Reintorduce..? Isn't stage 4's new health recovery completely eliminated?
I believe I read that it was -100% health recovery.
That was the one that also showed 20 percent increase in cost. The most recent I saw was not even 50 percent. The numbers are all over the place atm because the people who got the alphasblotted the numbers out badly and now we have a number salad everywhere.
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1-5%brandonv516 wrote: »Austinseph1 wrote: »Honestly anything over 5 and all mine will get a cure, I got vampires BECAUSE they help sustain, now I doubt it's even worth it for rp reasons.. cost increases are dumb.
That's the problem though. Providing buffs with little drawback makes it a skill line that everyone has to have to really compete.
I used to have Vampire on all my characters too because of the sustain (and also when RaT wasn't a thing). It shouldn't feel like a requirement.
NMA is an example of this right now. Nothing comes close for what you get out of the set - and a 5% increase on 1 bar is a drop in the bucket for a drawback.
75 percent health regen loss and 150 percent extra damage from fire is a pretty big draw back for a measely 10 percent regen which usually is like 180 regen when it comes down to it.No idea really, have to see how it plays and how comfortable it is. 20% is a lot, but I’d try and use as many vampire abilities as possible on classes that have abilities that don’t cost mag or stam: warden, NB and necro.
Thats great for melee classes, but ranged classes cannot use every skill, we HAVE to use our class skills mainly with a few vamp skills otherwise we will get the floor whiped with our bodies by melee classes.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%itscompton wrote: »I think 6-8% would be a good compromise. I watched a video earlier and managed to screen cap the tooltips as they flashed by and if they stay were they are at vamp will be strong.
Cold Blood will max out at at 10 sec giving 1920 w&s damage while costing 1728 hps.
Blood Mist is 1044 magic per second toggle, reduces damage by 75%, does 2437 damage in 5m radius, heals for all damage caused. Gives immovable buff.
Stupify costs 2925 and is 7 meter cone stun that lasts five seconds and snares 53% for another 5 after.
Brain Drain 3 second channel, cost 3343 magika does 16416 damage heals 60% missing health and restores 20% missing magicka with 22 meter range.
Bat Scion cost 256 ult last 20 seconds, gives 10K max magic, stam, health buff, heals to full on activation, heals for 33% all damage done and bats do 2571 damage to "nearby" enemies. No range given in tooltip but from video looks to be 6-8 meters.
That’s interesting. Brain drain looks really good, magblade self healing has always been weak and that’ll synergize nicely with the class.
Cold blood looks... dangerous. Easy kill against someone using that, just stun them and the ability will do the rest. Probably best used as a toggle: toggle on before ulting or during a burst and then toggle it off.
If you like magblade you like the living on the edge playstyle, most will like it I think.Edited by Iskiab on April 3, 2020 9:41PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Somewhere✭✭✭✭It is hard to say what kind of amount I would tolerate given that:
1. I don't know how much the vampire skills will cost, how much damage they will do, or how much they will heal. The better the skills end up being, the higher cost increase I will tolerate.
2. We need to see how much sustain we gain or lose as a result of the light and heavy attack changes on the pts. Currently these light attack changes give around 400-500 stamina/magicka per second. That can more than easily make up for the changes.1 -
Raammzzaa✭✭✭✭✭1-5%Anything greater than 5% and I’m definitely curing the vampires that I have. I’m hoping that the final value will be in that range, but at this point I have no faith left in ZOS not to completely destroy what’s left of combat in ESO... so here’s hoping for the best!0 -
bmnoble✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭None there is no reason for a cost increase, it makes no sense that your non vampire skills suddenly cost more.
Fire weakness, no health regen and looking ugly are penalty enough.3 -
Leocaran✭✭✭0%
I've never made my vamps for passives. Just for flavour or using some abilities sometimes for diversity. I don't use vamp abilities most of the time.
So if being a vamp would harm other skills it would be extremely upsetting. Curing won't help, it's not a simple switch.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%
Point is if it’s 20% now at stage 4 there’s a reason. Likely stage 1 is for just passives or not really vampire play, stage 4 is for people who want to play a vampire.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten0 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%
150?75 percent health regen loss and 150 percent extra damage from fire is a pretty big draw back for a measely 10 percent regen which usually is like 180 regen when it comes down to it.
It's really not. The health regen is a non-issue anyway - you have healers for that. Health regen on a typical DD is so negligible in combat that the -75% doesn't matter. And for the fire damage - either you get healed through it, or you juggle a few Maras around for specific content.
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TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1-5%
Point is if it’s 20% now at stage 4 there’s a reason. Likely stage 1 is for just passives or not really vampire play, stage 4 is for people who want to play a vampire.
Except ranged classes will still hve to use their class abilities for damage mainly, and it would be pretty awful if our abilities suddenly cost 20 percent more. For close range classes itd be fine, but itd be pretty messed up if we wanted to be stage 4 and be forced to pay 20 percent more.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1-5%
150?75 percent health regen loss and 150 percent extra damage from fire is a pretty big draw back for a measely 10 percent regen which usually is like 180 regen when it comes down to it.
It's really not. The health regen is a non-issue anyway - you have healers for that. Health regen on a typical DD is so negligible in combat that the -75% doesn't matter. And for the fire damage - either you get healed through it, or you juggle a few Maras around for specific content.
Not everyone runs in a ball group. And for pve the regen was also no big deal because you just chug potions all day long.Edited by TheFM on April 3, 2020 11:03PM0 -
JumpmanLane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Are cost increases additive or multiplicative? That’s your answer right there lol.0 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭0
Only my NB is a vamp and that is for reasons...
I can craft Night's Silence and be done with it
I was sick of my NB looking this ugly anyway
Ps. But also it wont matter if your costs increased or whatever since next patch everyone will sustain everythingEdited by Cirantille on April 4, 2020 8:46AM1 -
Varana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭15-20%And someone else didn't get the memo that there is PvE in this game.
You can't claim that these debuffs are a "big drawback" and the regen bonus is "measly" when they're not for the majority of players.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1-5%And someone else didn't get the memo that there is PvE in this game.
You can't claim that these debuffs are a "big drawback" and the regen bonus is "measly" when they're not for the majority of players.
Yet the people who complained about vamps say 10 percent is hugely op, yet say 20 percent debuff in cost is ok. It's hypocrisy at its finest. ✌️ . Luckily the Devs already stated the 20 % number was wrong. So enjoy.2 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭11-15%
Yet the people who complained about vamps say 10 percent is hugely op, yet say 20 percent debuff in cost is ok. It's hypocrisy at its finest. ✌️ . Luckily the Devs already stated the 20 % number was wrong. So enjoy.
Wait, where did they say this? I'd love to read it so I don't go crazy thinking about it.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭1-5%Not more than 5%. Its already hard that Acolyte charges 5% more without a proper sustainset as second you will run out of Stamina or Magicka very fast.PC|EU3 -
Vetixio✭✭✭✭0%
Vampires already take increased fire damage, increased damage from Fighters Guild abilities and Prismatic weapons. Now have 0% health recovery and no 10% magicka and stamina recovery. It just seems like they're beating a dead horse.Pìerre - Breton Vampire Templar, Grand Overlord. Erádàn - Bosmer Templar, Warlord. Vyríc - Imperial Vampire Necromancer, Centurion. Sybìl - Breton Sorcerer, Centurion. Erìch - Nord Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Njàll - Nord Templar, Lieutenant. Elánnà - Bosmer Warden, Veteran. Laquì - Redguard Vampire Nightblade, Corporal. Noveni Dres - Dunmer Sorcerer, Lieutenant. Marìnus - Imperial Warden, Veteran. Arvyn Indoril - Dunmer Templar, Sergeant. Rósalyn - Breton Sorcerer, Corporal. Emelîn - Bosmer Dragonknight, Corporal. Astaroth Indoril - Dunmer Sorcerer.2 -
Vicinia✭✭✭✭1-5%0%
Only good thing that will come out of this, is that (except for my bomber) all my vampire characters won't be ugly anymore
My dark elves will be pretty again!Edited by Vicinia on April 21, 2020 3:02PM0 -
Vicinia✭✭✭✭1-5%And someone else didn't get the memo that there is PvE in this game.
You can't claim that these debuffs are a "big drawback" and the regen bonus is "measly" when they're not for the majority of players.
Yet the people who complained about vamps say 10 percent is hugely op, yet say 20 percent debuff in cost is ok. It's hypocrisy at its finest. ✌️ . Luckily the Devs already stated the 20 % number was wrong. So enjoy.
I remember seeing those posts. 10% is OP but look at what Greymoor is bringing to the table
I'd rather have 0% cost increase but at worst it should be 5% at stage 4. That fire damage and lack of health recovery in this new meta will be brutal.I've been thinking... Why not tie the non vampire ability cost increase to that vampire ability that gives you the spell/weapon damage?
This please!
This is an excellent idea @Vevvev
Edited by Vicinia on April 21, 2020 3:06PM1