Fur_like_snow wrote: »

more bad changes none asked them to “fix” block. Now skills fire less frequently when a target is moving away because of the server side checks it’s like playing on a broke controller with 1-2 sec delay on all skills. It’s not lag. It’s skill input delay.

Pretty sure that if you go back through all of the combat complaints, you will find people asking for them to fix this. Probably demanding. Probably canceling subscriptions and talking about leaving the game. The thing is that people did not know what they were actually complaining about, so you have to look for more than "fix block".

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

You don't even know what AC is. AC doesn't mean hitting somebody 3 times in 0,5 seconds. Do you want me to draw a picture so that you are able to understand?

Most people likely do not know what block canceling is. I bet that a lot of people who do know what block canceling is probably don't even use it. I also figure that a lot of those who do use it do not really understand it. Pictures or not.

ArcVelarian wrote: »

I can tell you EXACTLY when the server performances issues really started. June 25th, 2014. It's when they implemented Interior Lighting Effects in Patch 1.2.3 . Adding those effects was really the first domino, and as it stands the current server database architecture simply can not handle the game with all the additional changes they've made since. If they haven't already, then they should hire people who have handled the servers for other successful large scale MMOs.

Heh. No. The "interior lighting effects" were not the cause of the problem. This tale has been out there for years, and it is wrong. That was just a feature, one of many changes that were in that patch. Something else, something that does not have a name that we know, caused this. I call it "client trust revocation, part 1". That might not be accurate, either.

All I know is that what I read was that this wouldn't influence gameplay, and that things would still behave like I'm used to. Yet just about everyone I know that played before this patch went live and has played since has said abilities are clunkier, abilities don't behave like they used to esp. related to cancelling and range changed, input delays are terrible, etc. I'm not a master artist at animation cancelling but the difference is noticeable to me. Perhaps this is always how it was "behind the scenes." I don't believe that, because I can tell from fighting players that something has fundamentally changed.

Perhaps the block changes are being mixed up with the myriad of other input and lag related issues this patch has had. I don't know. I'm not one of the privileged few that gets direct communication with developers, so other than what has been said on live streams or written here, I don't know the intent of this change, or what has really happened behind the scenes in the code. But what Gilliam described does not match what I experience. Maybe it is all in my head. Maybe it is all in all of our heads. Maybe I'll keep PvPing and adjust. But a lot of others haven't, and won't, and many do seem to be leaving ESO.

Now I give ZOS a lot of leeway here because there's a f'ing global pandemic going on. So while I am frustrated, I'm not cancelling my sub or throwing out ESO like I would if this was normal circumstances. I am going to wait this out for now because despite how unhappy I am with combat and design decisions regarding PvP, I still love the game and appreciate the people that work on it. I would love more communication but also understand giving the situation... yeah.

In the mean time I'll still express my frustration with the game as-is.

ArcVelarian wrote: »

I can tell you EXACTLY when the server performances issues really started. June 25th, 2014. It's when they implemented Interior Lighting Effects in Patch 1.2.3 . Adding those effects was really the first domino, and as it stands the current server database architecture simply can not handle the game with all the additional changes they've made since. If they haven't already, then they should hire people who have handled the servers for other successful large scale MMOs.

Heh. No. The "interior lighting effects" were not the cause of the problem. This tale has been out there for years, and it is wrong. That was just a feature, one of many changes that were in that patch. Something else, something that does not have a name that we know, caused this. I call it "client trust revocation, part 1". That might not be accurate, either.



well it certainly contributed to the problem but wasn't the sole source. It was a combination of moving checks server side due to cheatengine, adding more proc sets adding to server calculations, overhauling the resources management from resource caps to unlimited, adding CP points, too many people squeezed into server quadrants, and the list goes on. The core game engine that was released wasn't designed for the updates we see today. Bottom line, they pushed the software and server too hard. THey can't go back and fix it because they don't have the $$$.

teladoy wrote: »

I think this video is more a childish complain because he can not use animation canceling as he used to do.

In my opinion animation canceling is like a cancer. Because with animation canceling you could cast many skills consecutive, send the information from client to server, the server would accept you hit him 3 times in 0,5 and the poor guy on the other side would see that he is insta dead when he saw no *** coming.

So yes, sorry dude, no everything is perfect and sometimes you have to decide for the less painful option.

In my opinion is better to know and see what kills you than abuse of a mechanic, just because you have more skills, and kill someone else in matter of seconds.

Sometimes I really don't understand what kind of common sense the people has. They prefer to complain because they can't abuse anymore of others, instead of be happy that now is more close to be better and fair for everyone.

He wasn't even just animation canceling. The skill flat out doesn't fire. It happened to me just 2 days ago where I went to incap someone, which CANT be blocked canceled anymore anyways, and I was maybe an arms length from the person as he was running away and I spammed the button about 12 times (started counting after the 3rd) and it flat out never went off, just played the audio for the skill each time. Again, WASNT animation canceling, skills just don't go off reliably now.

Also, defensive skills aren't working either. Its literally a 50/50 shot whether I even get the heal from rally.

I've been stuck in the spectral bow animation to where I had to weapon swap to back bar then front bar again just to fix it. Never had this happen until this patch.

You can call animation canceling cancer and REEEE at the sky until you're blue in the face, but when you have a 6 year old game and people have learned to play it a certain way and they ruin it, thats NOT okay. You DO NOT change a combat system after that many years, THATS common sense.

Don't even get me started on what this patch did with dsync. What was a thing mainly with snipe now happens with everything.

In Cyrodiil at Southern High Rock, approx 6:30 pm est, not exactly NA prime time yet, but close, I checked if I wanted to continue pvp'ing.

--With bow equipped I light attacked at nothing in southern high rock:

1. arrow
2. nothing, no animation
3. elbow stuck in draw
4. nothing, no animation
5. arrow

So, the Cyrodiil test failed and I went to PVE where every bow light attack actually let loose an arrow.

JakaWild wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

time to move onto new mmos when they come out. This one has clearly run its course and fluidity of pvp combat has been bad and jankey for some years now. This game clearly is focusing efforts on PVE and is in a sustain & maintain software development life cycle.

The next few months will be very telling imo.Not saying eso is gonna die but the thing about pvpers in my experience is once it drops below a certain thresh hold they move on.I've seen it with other games.We saw it in NA no cp and that was my main campaign for years.The numbers drop,fights become harder to find and most moved to the main CP campaign.

Think this might just be a case of too little too late.Well see.

a lot of them have moved on already. you still have the guys that show up on the weekends like always, but it used to be 2 campaigns pop locked on a saturday. Now it's a lot less. ESO is honestly just fortunate that there is nobody really competing in the MMO market right now. Will be interesting to see how quickly they adjust these issues when New World comes out.

Iskiab wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

I have been wondering whether the client server model has changed to a hybrid stream system where the actional actions are interpreted and streamed out to the client; where as, this could account for the desync occurring. I noticed in a parse, as a parse test is a good test scenario, that after rapidly executing skills, skills begin to fail to execute. As though, the "cue" backlogs and cluster *** the client side results i.e. positional desync and skill not executing. more to point as if the server doesn't register them until action/animations clear the server "cue." I know this is poorly written and could be delivered in a better manner.

Isn’t this a long winded way of saying the server bottlenecks so the game plays like poo.

Well to a degree, yes. I do think its relevant to consider how the latest client download interacts with the server. Update 25 block changes align to the mechanic where the server may, to an extent be streaming player actions.

Its plausible, you can research the client-server game engine model, and how the pitfalls are similar to the case scenarios on desync and disconnects between how responsive client commands are interpreted by the server system.

The desync isn't occurring with just one skill tree, it's more encompassing. One streamer's video once demonstrated how they were able to use a macros to desync someone's health, I question whether the problem is related to these previous issues when the client desyncs the character.

Does ESO have any test case scenarios their willing to share for the PTS?

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

teladoy wrote: »

I think this video is more a childish complain because he can not use animation canceling as he used to do.

In my opinion animation canceling is like a cancer. Because with animation canceling you could cast many skills consecutive, send the information from client to server, the server would accept you hit him 3 times in 0,5 and the poor guy on the other side would see that he is insta dead when he saw no *** coming.

So yes, sorry dude, no everything is perfect and sometimes you have to decide for the less painful option.

In my opinion is better to know and see what kills you than abuse of a mechanic, just because you have more skills, and kill someone else in matter of seconds.

Sometimes I really don't understand what kind of common sense the people has. They prefer to complain because they can't abuse anymore of others, instead of be happy that now is more close to be better and fair for everyone.

You don't even know what AC is. AC doesn't mean hitting somebody 3 times in 0,5 seconds. Do you want me to draw a picture so that you are able to understand?

..and Thogard is right, he always has been.

He's obviously wrong when he says that this patch "they got rid of animation canceling". Why should we trust someone's judgement who says something so blatantly untrue? Sounds like he doesn't even know what AC is.

Faulgor wrote: »

He's obviously wrong when he says that this patch "they got rid of animation canceling". Why should we trust someone's judgement who says something so blatantly untrue? Sounds like he doesn't even know what AC is.

That statement poisoned everything that followed.

This happened to me in pve yesterday. I clearly had a line of sight but my bow skill just wouldn't fire. Also, no ac was involved.

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