GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

I agree that it needs to be moved. I imagine some players wouldn't like if it was put into Legerdemain, though, as it is basically a thievery skill line. Some players may want to sneak, but don't want to steal. I think Legerdemain can also be raised without stealing by using lock pick, but that would take an extremely long time to raise, depending on how deep into the tree sneak passives would be.

Edit: Also, ZOS would have to consider how it would then work with heavy armor. If sneak gets moved out of medium armor, then every build, including heavy benefits from it. I'm not sure if ZOS would go for that.

They can increase the xp gain from other sources, but it needs to be done.

I would also be interested in new undaunted skills.

JinMori wrote: »

It's about time to change the sneak passive into medium and put it into the legerdemain skills. It's just a really, really bad passive, to put into an important skilline such as medium.

Stamina armor as it is more beneficial than magicka to run 7 pieces, Magicka goes 5/1/1 if they want to deal more damage, while stam is 0/7/0. Also it makes sense for rogues, stamina based, to sneak better than heavy armor users, or robed mages. So saying "it needs to be done" is highly inaccurate, it is just what you want to happen. I mean, look at damage buffs of both armors, both gets same (more or less) sustain, both gets crit, Magicka gets pen while stamina gets weapon damage. I understand that you want to buff your play style, but you got to take in count the other things that need to be balanced beside it.

zvavi wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

It's about time to change the sneak passive into medium and put it into the legerdemain skills. It's just a really, really bad passive, to put into an important skilline such as medium.

Stamina armor as it is more beneficial than magicka to run 7 pieces, Magicka goes 5/1/1 if they want to deal more damage, while stam is 0/7/0. Also it makes sense for rogues, stamina based, to sneak better than heavy armor users, or robed mages. So saying "it needs to be done" is highly inaccurate, it is just what you want to happen. I mean, look at damage buffs of both armors, both gets same (more or less) sustain, both gets crit, Magicka gets pen while stamina gets weapon damage. I understand that you want to buff your play style, but you got to take in count the other things that need to be balanced beside it.

I don;t really care about rp, i care about efficiency.

Also, thief is not really the theme with medium armor, you think so probably because you play a nightblade, which is the only one where the assertion is correct.

Also, even from an rp standpoint, why would light armor provide a deficit to sneak? It wouldn't, it;'s not metal, it does not make a lot of noise.

If that really bothers you or zos in general, just make it so heavy armor provides a deficit for sneak, but honestly, who gives a ***.

JinMori wrote: »

Something else also came to mind, the crit passive, they should change it and make it like light armor.

We do not need to homogenize everything about the game. That is what this quoted comment is requesting concerning the crit passive. No reasoning or logic is provided to support this suggestion or what is asked for in the OP. It is merley the OP wants it this way.

Zos as done enough to homogenize many skills in the game under the guise of standardization, and you want to take it further. It is good to have differences. If you have an idea to suggest at least take the time to come of with a reason to make it worth considering if you want Zos to give it a second thought.

JinMori wrote: »

idk wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Something else also came to mind, the crit passive, they should change it and make it like light armor.

We do not need to homogenize everything about the game. That is what this quoted comment is requesting concerning the crit passive. No reasoning or logic is provided to support this suggestion or what is asked for in the OP. It is merley the OP wants it this way.

Zos as done enough to homogenize many skills in the game under the guise of standardization, and you want to take it further. It is good to have differences. If you have an idea to suggest at least take the time to come of with a reason to make it worth considering if you want Zos to give it a second thought.

Well, there are a couple of reasons why it would be better to make the crit passive like light armor, the most important is so you can go 5 1 1 without losing dps, but only sustain.

Also, not always there needs to be provided a reason other than, i do not like it that way, and the reason i do not like it, is mostly because of what i have said above.

I care about homogenization only on things that change your gameplay, these are just passives, they do not change how the class plays, they only make what you already have stronger, so the homogenization argument is kinda irrelevant.

As I said, homogenization. You want to homogenize the passives so you can gear similarly. You want it merely because you want it. You say you care about homogenization yet you are suggesting two areas of homogenization in this thread.

You say these are just passives so are you going to start suggesting class passives be made available to all or copied to other classes?

You are correct that you do not have to provide a justification. However, well-thought ideas that impact builds and balance should not only have justifications for the change other than I want it just because I want it, but they should also consider the impact on the game.

This is really no different than your penetration suggestion. You offered the same justification, that you wanted it to make it easier for you to gear. That is just selfish reasoning without considering the impacts on the game.

JinMori wrote: »

Well, there are a couple of reasons why it would be better to make the crit passive like light armor, the most important is so you can go 5 1 1 without losing dps, but only sustain.

yep, it is homogenization. Between stam and mag builds. I mean. Literally.

Also, not always there needs to be provided a reason other than, i do not like it that way, and the reason i do not like it, is mostly because of what i have said above.

So your only reason (at least the only one you are willing to provide) is that you want it to be like the mag version, which is again, homogenization.

I care about homogenization only on things that change your gameplay, these are just passives, they do not change how the class plays, they only make what you already have stronger, so the homogenization argument is kinda irrelevant.

Well build homogenization is also a thing, if you dont care about it, it doesn't mean arguments of others are invalid.

In short because efficiency.

I have yet to read anywhere else in your responses about this so called "efficiency", care to elaborate?

PS. If it is homogenized, i prefer it the other way. That i can wear 7 light and get more damage in addition to the sustain, downside, less survivability.

JinMori wrote: »

Look, it doesn't matter.

It's irrelevant.

I don't care about homogenization of passives as long as they are strong. Since they do not really change how the gameplay is in a meaningful way. Capish?

Sneak especially on medium armor should not be a thing. Medium armor should provide strong bonuses not situational trash.

You get stuck up on points like homogenization, like who cares, as long as they do not homogenize how the classes feel to play.

And that's it, you are defending your point i am defending mine, don't pretend that you or anyone else are on a higher level here, we are all serving our self interest. You because of some homogenization bs, and me because efficiency, we can argue preference, but it's pretty clear which one is objectively better from an efficiency standpoint.

End of story.

With this you would have a better choice between 7 med or 5 1 1, right now for stam 5 1 1 isn't really worth it, because the stat gain does not justify the crit and sustain loss.

1. You can go 6/1 pretty easily with Stam gaining some survivability and barely losing dmg. You are right that 5/1/1 is not optional on stam, but nothing other than 5/1/1 is not optional on mag either. People will run bis cause bis.
2. Ok i think that i finally understood your efficiency PoV (which you didn't explain correctly at all), you are talking about sneak passive not being efficient. Gonna remind you PvP is a thing. So remember you are going to ruin people's builds.
3. I am not even defending my point, i am defending the point of @idk, which is honestly correct, you are trying to homogenize light vs medium. Even if it is only passives.
4. No need to attack people saying that they think they are higher level. I literally just explained to you a PoV of others, which you kept dismissing. If you want to really converse about changes and get your point across, i recommend you slow down, and type exactly what you mean.
5. Plz dont dismiss other people's PoV. Even if they are different from yours, if people feel in a different way, it means change might not be needed. Things like "even if it is homogenize the mag/stam armors, i still think the change is needed"+reasons <-proper answer. Attacking people and saying that your is obviously a better choice and that other opinions dont matter, isnt.
6. I mean. Your "efficiency" argument can be seen as "please buff armor passives". There is nothing about efficiency here. Just you wanting to buff your armor type. it doesn't have to come from armor passives, like you want it to.

Buff assylum perfected to proc all effects every cast of force pulse cause efficiency <-this sounds silly, doesn't it? Unless i didn't get your efficiency argument right, then please try to elaborate again, without personally attacking anyone please.

JinMori wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Look, it doesn't matter.

It's irrelevant.

I don't care about homogenization of passives as long as they are strong. Since they do not really change how the gameplay is in a meaningful way. Capish?

Sneak especially on medium armor should not be a thing. Medium armor should provide strong bonuses not situational trash.

You get stuck up on points like homogenization, like who cares, as long as they do not homogenize how the classes feel to play.

And that's it, you are defending your point i am defending mine, don't pretend that you or anyone else are on a higher level here, we are all serving our self interest. You because of some homogenization bs, and me because efficiency, we can argue preference, but it's pretty clear which one is objectively better from an efficiency standpoint.

End of story.

With this you would have a better choice between 7 med or 5 1 1, right now for stam 5 1 1 isn't really worth it, because the stat gain does not justify the crit and sustain loss.

1. You can go 6/1 pretty easily with Stam gaining some survivability and barely losing dmg. You are right that 5/1/1 is not optional on stam, but nothing other than 5/1/1 is not optional on mag either. People will run bis cause bis.
2. Ok i think that i finally understood your efficiency PoV (which you didn't explain correctly at all), you are talking about sneak passive not being efficient. Gonna remind you PvP is a thing. So remember you are going to ruin people's builds.
3. I am not even defending my point, i am defending the point of @idk, which is honestly correct, you are trying to homogenize light vs medium. Even if it is only passives.
4. No need to attack people saying that they think they are higher level. I literally just explained to you a PoV of others, which you kept dismissing. If you want to really converse about changes and get your point across, i recommend you slow down, and type exactly what you mean.
5. Plz dont dismiss other people's PoV. Even if they are different from yours, if people feel in a different way, it means change might not be needed. Things like "even if it is homogenize the mag/stam armors, i still think the change is needed"+reasons <-proper answer. Attacking people and saying that your is obviously a better choice and that other opinions dont matter, isnt.
6. I mean. Your "efficiency" argument can be seen as "please buff armor passives". There is nothing about efficiency here. Just you wanting to buff your armor type. it doesn't have to come from armor passives, like you want it to.

Buff assylum perfected to proc all effects every cast of force pulse cause efficiency <-this sounds silly, doesn't it? Unless i didn't get your efficiency argument right, then please try to elaborate again, without personally attacking anyone please.

Ruin pvp build? No that's not going to happen.

Look i don;t really care, if you are complaining about bis, well, you have a choice not to run it, sneak should not be a thing in med armor passives, just put it in ledger.

End of story.

I'm gonna dismiss points of view as i please, just like you dismiss mine as homogenization.

I don't care, think what you want, but it's clear that one option is better than the other. Sneak is a situational thing, and i do not care if some people will complain about "but muh rp", there are other ways to do that.

You say sneak passives should not be a thing on medium but you offer nothing to suggest those words should ring true with anyone. That makes it look like you just want access to it regardless of what armor you wear and that is a weak justification.

It seems medium armor makes sense with a rogueish build and as such makes sense to have sneak passives.

You can tell people you are done with them and that your opinion is the end of the story but that could not be further from the truth. You are being dismissive because comments are very inconvenient to your suggestion.

So, not the end of the story as their reply is very solid and well throughout.

JinMori wrote: »

idk wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Look, it doesn't matter.

It's irrelevant.

I don't care about homogenization of passives as long as they are strong. Since they do not really change how the gameplay is in a meaningful way. Capish?

Sneak especially on medium armor should not be a thing. Medium armor should provide strong bonuses not situational trash.

You get stuck up on points like homogenization, like who cares, as long as they do not homogenize how the classes feel to play.

And that's it, you are defending your point i am defending mine, don't pretend that you or anyone else are on a higher level here, we are all serving our self interest. You because of some homogenization bs, and me because efficiency, we can argue preference, but it's pretty clear which one is objectively better from an efficiency standpoint.

End of story.

With this you would have a better choice between 7 med or 5 1 1, right now for stam 5 1 1 isn't really worth it, because the stat gain does not justify the crit and sustain loss.

1. You can go 6/1 pretty easily with Stam gaining some survivability and barely losing dmg. You are right that 5/1/1 is not optional on stam, but nothing other than 5/1/1 is not optional on mag either. People will run bis cause bis.
2. Ok i think that i finally understood your efficiency PoV (which you didn't explain correctly at all), you are talking about sneak passive not being efficient. Gonna remind you PvP is a thing. So remember you are going to ruin people's builds.
3. I am not even defending my point, i am defending the point of @idk, which is honestly correct, you are trying to homogenize light vs medium. Even if it is only passives.
4. No need to attack people saying that they think they are higher level. I literally just explained to you a PoV of others, which you kept dismissing. If you want to really converse about changes and get your point across, i recommend you slow down, and type exactly what you mean.
5. Plz dont dismiss other people's PoV. Even if they are different from yours, if people feel in a different way, it means change might not be needed. Things like "even if it is homogenize the mag/stam armors, i still think the change is needed"+reasons <-proper answer. Attacking people and saying that your is obviously a better choice and that other opinions dont matter, isnt.
6. I mean. Your "efficiency" argument can be seen as "please buff armor passives". There is nothing about efficiency here. Just you wanting to buff your armor type. it doesn't have to come from armor passives, like you want it to.

Buff assylum perfected to proc all effects every cast of force pulse cause efficiency <-this sounds silly, doesn't it? Unless i didn't get your efficiency argument right, then please try to elaborate again, without personally attacking anyone please.

Ruin pvp build? No that's not going to happen.

Look i don;t really care, if you are complaining about bis, well, you have a choice not to run it, sneak should not be a thing in med armor passives, just put it in ledger.

End of story.

I'm gonna dismiss points of view as i please, just like you dismiss mine as homogenization.

I don't care, think what you want, but it's clear that one option is better than the other. Sneak is a situational thing, and i do not care if some people will complain about "but muh rp", there are other ways to do that.

You say sneak passives should not be a thing on medium but you offer nothing to suggest those words should ring true with anyone. That makes it look like you just want access to it regardless of what armor you wear and that is a weak justification.

It seems medium armor makes sense with a rogueish build and as such makes sense to have sneak passives.

You can tell people you are done with them and that your opinion is the end of the story but that could not be further from the truth. You are being dismissive because comments are very inconvenient to your suggestion.

So, not the end of the story as their reply is very solid and well throughout.

Well, quite a bit of people seem to agree with me that sneak on med armor should not be a thing, so the first part of your assessment is already wrong, but i'm done with your baiting now.

After 4 days this thread is not even on the second page and you account for 12 of the 22 posts (23 with this reply). It is very much grasping at straws to suggest quite a bit of people agree with your suggestion here.

So I am wrong. LOL

JinMori wrote: »

idk wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

JinMori wrote: »

Look, it doesn't matter.

It's irrelevant.

I don't care about homogenization of passives as long as they are strong. Since they do not really change how the gameplay is in a meaningful way. Capish?

Sneak especially on medium armor should not be a thing. Medium armor should provide strong bonuses not situational trash.

You get stuck up on points like homogenization, like who cares, as long as they do not homogenize how the classes feel to play.

And that's it, you are defending your point i am defending mine, don't pretend that you or anyone else are on a higher level here, we are all serving our self interest. You because of some homogenization bs, and me because efficiency, we can argue preference, but it's pretty clear which one is objectively better from an efficiency standpoint.

End of story.

With this you would have a better choice between 7 med or 5 1 1, right now for stam 5 1 1 isn't really worth it, because the stat gain does not justify the crit and sustain loss.

1. You can go 6/1 pretty easily with Stam gaining some survivability and barely losing dmg. You are right that 5/1/1 is not optional on stam, but nothing other than 5/1/1 is not optional on mag either. People will run bis cause bis.
2. Ok i think that i finally understood your efficiency PoV (which you didn't explain correctly at all), you are talking about sneak passive not being efficient. Gonna remind you PvP is a thing. So remember you are going to ruin people's builds.
3. I am not even defending my point, i am defending the point of @idk, which is honestly correct, you are trying to homogenize light vs medium. Even if it is only passives.
4. No need to attack people saying that they think they are higher level. I literally just explained to you a PoV of others, which you kept dismissing. If you want to really converse about changes and get your point across, i recommend you slow down, and type exactly what you mean.
5. Plz dont dismiss other people's PoV. Even if they are different from yours, if people feel in a different way, it means change might not be needed. Things like "even if it is homogenize the mag/stam armors, i still think the change is needed"+reasons <-proper answer. Attacking people and saying that your is obviously a better choice and that other opinions dont matter, isnt.
6. I mean. Your "efficiency" argument can be seen as "please buff armor passives". There is nothing about efficiency here. Just you wanting to buff your armor type. it doesn't have to come from armor passives, like you want it to.

Buff assylum perfected to proc all effects every cast of force pulse cause efficiency <-this sounds silly, doesn't it? Unless i didn't get your efficiency argument right, then please try to elaborate again, without personally attacking anyone please.

Ruin pvp build? No that's not going to happen.

Look i don;t really care, if you are complaining about bis, well, you have a choice not to run it, sneak should not be a thing in med armor passives, just put it in ledger.

End of story.

I'm gonna dismiss points of view as i please, just like you dismiss mine as homogenization.

I don't care, think what you want, but it's clear that one option is better than the other. Sneak is a situational thing, and i do not care if some people will complain about "but muh rp", there are other ways to do that.

You say sneak passives should not be a thing on medium but you offer nothing to suggest those words should ring true with anyone. That makes it look like you just want access to it regardless of what armor you wear and that is a weak justification.

It seems medium armor makes sense with a rogueish build and as such makes sense to have sneak passives.

You can tell people you are done with them and that your opinion is the end of the story but that could not be further from the truth. You are being dismissive because comments are very inconvenient to your suggestion.

So, not the end of the story as their reply is very solid and well throughout.

You want to know the first reason why it should not be a thing? Simple, because damage, because it's better to have something that buffs your damage like light armor does compared to some situational garbage, are you happy now? Doesn't need any more reason than that, because efficiency, because damage.

Again, you are coming up with a reason that is nothing more than you want access to the passive regardless of what armor you wear. That is not a reason. Heck, you

Also, calling the comments of other players garbage is very sad. It just continues your attempt to control the conversation in this thread because the replies are not convenient for your suggestion. The fact is Zos likely sees through such charades.

Have a good day.