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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
Why was flawless dawnbreaker changed?
JinMori
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I didn't notice this until basically today, since iv'e returned only a couple days ago to try a few things, gotta say, iv'e been disappointed in pretty much every change, but i guess new templar backlash is good, and sustain isn't too bad.
But why was this skill changed? In itself, it's not a bad skill, it's 300 weapon damage for 20 sec, you can have a reasonable uptime on it, but the problem is that this skill is useless for every class aside for stamina templar, and that's it basically, the damage of this skill is just not that good, so the weapon damage was the part that was useful from this skill, and that didn't really change.
Maybe the idea was that they wanted to change how it works, because every stamina was using it in the front bar for the buff, but never really used it, as an ulti, but a lot of classes still do.
At the end of the day i don't think this is a good change overall. People still use it for the 3 %, so you didn't really solve anything, and it's not a problem either way, some skills are just better than others, that's it.
The problem i am seeing at the moment with balancing, is that i'm seeing a lot of nonsensical changes, you seem to find something you think is a problem and change it without a lot of thought.
Edited by JinMori on March 19, 2020 5:04PM But why was this skill changed? In itself, it's not a bad skill, it's 300 weapon damage for 20 sec, you can have a reasonable uptime on it, but the problem is that this skill is useless for every class aside for stamina templar, and that's it basically, the damage of this skill is just not that good, so the weapon damage was the part that was useful from this skill, and that didn't really change.
Maybe the idea was that they wanted to change how it works, because every stamina was using it in the front bar for the buff, but never really used it, as an ulti, but a lot of classes still do.
At the end of the day i don't think this is a good change overall. People still use it for the 3 %, so you didn't really solve anything, and it's not a problem either way, some skills are just better than others, that's it.
The problem i am seeing at the moment with balancing, is that i'm seeing a lot of nonsensical changes, you seem to find something you think is a problem and change it without a lot of thought.
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Asardes✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I'd say the other morph, Dawnbreaker of Smiting is always better in PvP because of the knockdown and increased up front damage. For 1v1 Onlsaught is almost always better since the cost is not much higher - 150 vs. 125. On Templar specifically you can go with Empowering since it will deal far more damage than either morph of Dawnbreaker; also that's way cheaper, only 72 ultimate.Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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Asardes the Exile | 50 Nord Dragonknight | EP AR 30 |0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd say the other morph, Dawnbreaker of Smiting is always better in PvP because of the knockdown and increased up front damage. For 1v1 Onlsaught is almost always better since the cost is not much higher - 150 vs. 125. On Templar specifically you can go with Empowering since it will deal far more damage than either morph of Dawnbreaker; also that's way cheaper, only 72 ultimate.
No, flawless,. does just about as much damage as empowering sweep, and i was not really talking about pvp, it was in general.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is it only good for Stamplar?
It's good only on stamplar, because stamplar does not have a better ulti that they already use like, stamcro, stamsorc, stamden, stamdk, and stamblade.
This morph once used to give you 5 % of your weapon damage, it was used as a buffer rather than an ulti, now to get the 300 weapon damage buff you have to use the ulti, but it's *** for pve dps because it does not do enough sustained damage, so even if the buff is good, other ultimares are better.
I said that stamplar does not have an already better ulti, but empowered sweep is very close, or maybe actually slightly better.
They didn't really solve anything, because most classes aside from nightblade and bear warden, still use it as a buffer, and there is nothing to solve honestly, it was fine.Edited by JinMori on March 19, 2020 5:05PM0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is it only good for Stamplar?
It's good only on stamplar, because stamplar does not have a better ulti that they already use like, stamcro, stamsorc, stamden, stamdk, and stamblade.
This morph once used to give you 5 % of your weapon damage, it was used as a buffer rather than an ulti, now to get the 300 weapon damage buff you have to use the ulti, but it's *** for pve dps because it does not do enough sustained damage, so even if the buff is good, other ultimares are better.
I said that stamplar does not have an already better ulti, but empowered sweep is very close, or maybe actually slightly better.
They didn't really solve anything, because most classes aside from nightblade and bear warden, still use it as a buffer, and there is nothing to solve honestly, it was fine.
Stamcro can use it if there's already enough colossus in the group. Wardens bear is too dumb to use. Nb, and to a lesser extent sorc, don't have good AoE ults. FDB is fine as is.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is it only good for Stamplar?
It's good only on stamplar, because stamplar does not have a better ulti that they already use like, stamcro, stamsorc, stamden, stamdk, and stamblade.
This morph once used to give you 5 % of your weapon damage, it was used as a buffer rather than an ulti, now to get the 300 weapon damage buff you have to use the ulti, but it's *** for pve dps because it does not do enough sustained damage, so even if the buff is good, other ultimares are better.
I said that stamplar does not have an already better ulti, but empowered sweep is very close, or maybe actually slightly better.
They didn't really solve anything, because most classes aside from nightblade and bear warden, still use it as a buffer, and there is nothing to solve honestly, it was fine.
Stamcro can use it if there's already enough colossus in the group. Wardens bear is too dumb to use. Nb, and to a lesser extent sorc, don't have good AoE ults. FDB is fine as is.
It's fine, it's not good though.0 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Why is it only good for Stamplar?
It's good only on stamplar, because stamplar does not have a better ulti that they already use like, stamcro, stamsorc, stamden, stamdk, and stamblade.
This morph once used to give you 5 % of your weapon damage, it was used as a buffer rather than an ulti, now to get the 300 weapon damage buff you have to use the ulti, but it's *** for pve dps because it does not do enough sustained damage, so even if the buff is good, other ultimares are better.
I said that stamplar does not have an already better ulti, but empowered sweep is very close, or maybe actually slightly better.
They didn't really solve anything, because most classes aside from nightblade and bear warden, still use it as a buffer, and there is nothing to solve honestly, it was fine.
Stamcro can use it if there's already enough colossus in the group. Wardens bear is too dumb to use. Nb, and to a lesser extent sorc, don't have good AoE ults. FDB is fine as is.
It's fine, it's not good though.
Good enough to use, even if situationally.BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know the actual damage on the skill doesnt compare to class ultimates, but 300 base weapon damage for 20 seconds seems really good...
Has the math been done to show this being worse than other ultimate choices?
I also play a stamplar and I was using flawless front bar and ballista backbar, but I am now considering using flawless as my active ultimate because 300 weapon damage (which gets buffed by 50ish%) for 20 seconds seems like it would more than make up for the lower ultimate damage, but I could be wrong.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I know the actual damage on the skill doesnt compare to class ultimates, but 300 base weapon damage for 20 seconds seems really good...
Has the math been done to show this being worse than other ultimate choices?
I also play a stamplar and I was using flawless front bar and ballista backbar, but I am now considering using flawless as my active ultimate because 300 weapon damage (which gets buffed by 50ish%) for 20 seconds seems like it would more than make up for the lower ultimate damage, but I could be wrong.
The buff is strong, the problem is something else, i preferred it when it just provided 5 % weapon damage. If they buff it too much as it is though, everyone will just use dawn, which would be worse than what we have now in my opinion, so just return it to 5% wd, and let it be more of a buff ability rather than an ability you use.Edited by JinMori on March 19, 2020 8:22PM0 -
Kittytravel✭✭✭✭✭It was changed specifically because it was a "take this ult always" situation; there literally was nothing to beat 5% free WD in PvE, it wasn't even arguable. The same reason Caltrops was nerfed to increase class diversity instead of every stam DPS running around with it.
The current skill is actually used by Stamblades as it's better than our other AoE ult options; I mean nightblades don't really have a great ult selection to begin with so it wasn't hard to beat it out and at 130ish ulti it's very quick to charge up for trash pulls.
If they revert it they just change the game back to "Okay stamina DPS you have to slot Dawnbreaker front bar now no exceptions".0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kittytravel wrote: »It was changed specifically because it was a "take this ult always" situation; there literally was nothing to beat 5% free WD in PvE, it wasn't even arguable. The same reason Caltrops was nerfed to increase class diversity instead of every stam DPS running around with it.
The current skill is actually used by Stamblades as it's better than our other AoE ult options; I mean nightblades don't really have a great ult selection to begin with so it wasn't hard to beat it out and at 130ish ulti it's very quick to charge up for trash pulls.
If they revert it they just change the game back to "Okay stamina DPS you have to slot Dawnbreaker front bar now no exceptions".
Meh, find i don't really have that big of a problem with it, i just preferred the previous dawnbreaker.
Also, nightblades really need a rework on their abilities, they are the only class basically that can only go aoe or st, but never both at the same time. Shade is pathetic.0