At this point we should all just find a different game for PVP and stick to ESO for PvE.

Drdeath20 · March 2020

PS5 comes out in less than a year. Doubt there will be any sweeping changes in the meantime. ZoS made a good game but how long can you play the same game?

The main problems happened during its infancy, when eso was interesting and still a premier game. Big problems were not addressed and new content was dripped out. Its a great game but its a game meant to make easy money, just do enough to appease.

Eso has just been a copy and paste of what others have done, never innovators.

Papachico · March 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

So what you are saying is us fixing the game for us (doubt it would even make a difference) by not playing how we would like to play and in the same time paying for it? hmmkay.

Thevampirenight · March 2020

Papachico wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

So what you are saying is us fixing the game for us (doubt it would even make a difference) by not playing how we would like to play and in the same time paying for it? hmmkay.

Well I think they support that but they support following your own path. I think what several players do is copy popular metas or find their own and sometimes share them and then those people copy that person. So how is that playing the way you want to play? When some people are coping others to get the edge over others? You can play the way you want to play however, those were just suggestions that could very well make it better. Freedom of choice means you don't have to listen to me or even take the idea seriously. That is up to you and only you.

Nyladreas · March 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

Is this a troll post? You can't be serious lol. Players always do and always will use whatever they can to get an advantage or upper hand in any form of competition, gaming especially, since it also helps with some of their issues IRL.

If anything (or anyone), it's the devs who have to limit/change these things in order to pump up performance at the cost of the game's fun gameplay.... Which I, sadly, cannot and will NOT endorse.

TequilaFire · March 2020

BreakingBats wrote: »

Praying for New World to make it's way to console. I love ESO pvp, but it's insane how it and an entire part of their community are constantly neglected.

Sadly New World also requires a Steam account with no plans for console.

Reverb · March 2020

TequilaFire wrote: »

BreakingBats wrote: »

Praying for New World to make it's way to console. I love ESO pvp, but it's insane how it and an entire part of their community are constantly neglected.

Sadly New World also requires a Steam account with no plans for console.

Yup, it’s even in the games FAQ that there are no plans for a console version.

WilliamESO · March 2020

PvE is for newbs on ESO the real HL is solo pvp and small scale outnumbered

ZarkingFrued · March 2020

State of PvP is unplayable right now. Downward spiral for 2 years, and finally a goodnight after to he last Midyear Mayhem. Somewhere in the patch after Midyear there is a bug that is destroying PvP.

A_Silverius · March 2020

Cirantille wrote: »

I am open to suggestions.

But I dont like futuristics types, like with guns, lasers etc so I dont know any

I can recommend Warhammer Online: Return of Reckoning for pvp'ers. It is a private server though so pve content is buggy, they're main focus is on pvp.

Some of my screenshots.

Thevampirenight · March 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

Is this a troll post? You can't be serious lol. Players always do and always will use whatever they can to get an advantage or upper hand in any form of competition, gaming especially, since it also helps with some of their issues IRL.

If anything (or anyone), it's the devs who have to limit/change these things in order to pump up performance at the cost of the game's fun gameplay.... Which I, sadly, cannot and will NOT endorse.

Yes its human nature, sometimes some parts of human nature do need to be overcome for the greater good. Its human nature to disagree and maybe even say are you trolling when that person is trying to at least help out in a way that people strongly disagree with. Hopefully one day we can evolve past these instincts and evolve past them and become more like Star Trek Humans. I don't blame you for it. I'd rather be your friend to be honest with you then argue or get angry.

Sadly the devs do and should limit some of these things while I'm with you and it is sad. They can always add fun things, to the mix new fun things however sadly limiting things might be needed. Like Group size definitely and actual cool downs on certain abilties something they really don't want to do. Maybe adjusting battle spirit to make killing players a bit easier while also reducing healing and nerfing it even more with it. Without nerfing the base game.

The game is growing and has more code and content then it did several years ago the more code that is added the more things seem to downgrade, If they removed most of the dlcs from the game the performance might be a lot better then it is now. But they are not going away and they make money off this so its not happening.

I think humans do desire change but at the same time don't want change. That is the key thing with us as a species its why people react the way they do on the forums at times. They want things to be better but also not effect their play styles at the same time and that is just not going to happen. To have it be better requires taking away elements that players really like. its a difficult place I'm sure they are in and feeling and I do wish people would not go after them like they do because they are just like us they work on the game they care about the game they want to give us new cool things and they want to get more money so they can continue working on the game and well make a profit.
So the possibilities
1. They do nothing and players play the way they like but most quit do to how bad performance is.
2. They radically change things but some or a lot of players quit do to their things they really like having to be sacrificed but more players come in take their place and well game is in a good spot performance wise as a result.
3. Players and zenimax work to reduce the lag and fix things by changing up how they play and zenimax changing up certain things which is very unlikely. The point I was trying to make in the thread that was now closed which I understand. People just want Zenimax to fix it without them having to change how they play.
4. They fix it while keeping everything people like and keeping things business as unusual but with things 100% better. The preferred option for many but very unlikely as the changes that are needed are going to have to take away from the stuff players do like. Like % based values and people would be against converting everything to flat do to theory crafting and they like that sort of thing since it might be more challenging. Fast paced combat, how abilties work keeping them the same things like block keeping them the same. Many would prefer option Number four but sadly some of the things people like actually could be hindering and thus needs to be changed.

So its a very difficult situation and very hard to overcome without tripping on peoples toes and angering them. Anything they do will have outcry I think at this point if it effects their play style or how they feel things should be. So many might like a option four, out of all the possibilities number 4 might be the most difficult for Zenimax to pull off and most unlikely. So that seems to be the way it is.

TheRealCherokeee3 · March 2020

daemonios wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

[Snip]

Why should players self-limit group size if groups go up to 24? Why should they be expected to know it impacts the server - IF it even impacts the server. It's not clear to me that a 24-man group would lag the server, but 24 people running about outside of group would not.

Why should players not use abilities that the game allows them to use? It was ZOS' choice to use 1s cooldowns for abilities instead of longer cooldowns as seen in other games. How long should I wait between skills when they are all available 1s after I used the previous one? Should everyone wait the same amount of time? What do you do if someone respects the 1s cooldown and kills you because you were waiting between skill uses?

Players should basically commit suicide for the server's benefit? I realize you're talking about troll-like tank builds. But how much is too much? Should everyone stop using heavy armour and impenetrable? Stop blocking? Stop using shields and heals? Who other than ZOS can make general rules regarding survivability of specific builds?

Spreading out is another good one. All of Cyrodiil was sold to us based on epic AvAvA battles for the control of keeps. Players should now pretend that this was not the intention, and that it features in areas such as campaign scoring?

Likewise, why should players be the one to self-censor with regard to set bonuses? What if my preferred build relies on %-based bonuses? If I go for a set with flat bonuses, who says everyone else will do the same, i.e. that my gimping myself will have any positive effect?

What are second and third tier abilities? Which abilities hurt the server, and which don't? Can you make a list? And again, if this had even a hint of truth and applicability, what's to stop someone from continuing to use BiS abilities against players who would be self-gimping?

I honestly don't know if you didn't think before you posted, are trolling, or are actually convinced your suggestions could work. [Snip]
[Edited for baiting]

Well in this case its coming to grips with reality of Eso. It was built for massive AvAvA but that had to be sacrificed because of issues like bots and cheat engine.
Group size matters because the server just can't handle massive AvAvA ability spam, massive groups on groups spamming large particle abilties. ALl players are doing is causing things to get worse. It just can't handle what players are doing they changed some of the worst abilties to only effect group members to limit the number of aoe effects that effect other group members however there is so much spam and when there is a group of 24, with non stop ability spam and group buffing and healing and 24 vs 24 group battles. Performance gets killed because of this, reducing it to twelve would make it better then it is on live.

It won't fix it completely and they do need to rework a lot of these abilties to be less stressful I think the aoe changes will definitely help pvp. However people do need to reduce their group sizes and the way they do things in pvp if they want it to be playable if not then they shouldn't listen to me and just keep on business as usual while it continues to get worse for them.

My problem isn't so much with your diagnostic, but your proposed solution. You can't make players responsible for fixing something that only ZOS can reliably fix. You will not get everyone to self-police for the sake of performance, much less in a competitive environment like PvP. Your suggestions are a non-starter.

Pretty much. That's like a car company requesting purchasers "never turn on the radio or it will cease the windows from rolling down. Also, if you open the trunk you have to first recline the front driver side seat at EXACTLY 35 degrees or the trunk wont unlock. Only open the rear passenger side door on tuesdays or you'll face an auto lock for three weeks. We've observed engine failure at speeds of 45mph so never drive on the freeway or might we suggest changing jobs to a local commute?"
Im pretty sure the company would go out of business from...you know people simply buying a car that works and can be used normally lol.

scubasteve28 · March 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well the thing is, well a lot of this is being caused by the player base. Zenimax and whatever they do once in a while does hurt performance but the biggest performance killers are the players themselves. They are just as responsible even more so then Zenimax for allowing it to get this bad. As player pvp trends are causing a lot of the problems with performance.

It wouldn't be as bad if players did the following.
1. Limit group size to Twelve or Less.
2.Going out of the way to not spam abilties like heals or other abilties that have heavy particle effects non stop.
3.Players should allow themselves to be killed once in a while. You don't need to be an impossible to beat foe that is only hurting performance players that make builds that make them very hard or difficult to kill which makes massive group on group content take much longer which can cause serious lag sinks when players stack lag causing abilties and spam those lag causing abilties non stop. This might be the biggest reason why pvp is so unplayable right now. So players should make a commitment and pvp guilds to stop using to much tank meta and commit to allowing combat to end faster then it is.
4.Spreading out being more random.
5. Use Item sets that have flat based values. Avoid using percentage based sets to reduce server calculations that the server has to run when players are stacked. Not only doing this for yourself but also doing this to help pvp run better.
6. Use abilties even if not Bis that don't hurt game performance even if they are second or third tier. Like second tier healing or third tier healing abilties.

This is not the players fault though. I understand what you are saying, but players shouldn't have to give up things that the game offers just to make it playable.

MurderMostFoul · March 2020

BGs work well for the most part on Xbox NA. The best PvP is there.

fiender66 · March 2020

Heimpai wrote: »

No..I prefer other games for pve...I'm only here for the pvp and will be until a better pvp game comes out

Which other games, pls? Not joking, I'm really curious.
I tried BDO (terrible story line, if any at all) and the old glorious Tera. FFXIV repels me for the combat mechanics. This ones are only the more recent I tried. Ah, good old times of Silkroad Online and Metin 2...

joaaocaampos · March 2020

Nyladreas wrote: »

ZOS doesn't know how to separate PVE and PVP, even with tools at their disposal.

I disagree with that.

This should not happen. Separate PvE and PvP? No, hell no!

I know that the balance between PvE and PvP is unpleasant, but it must be so.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · March 2020

Strangely, for a long time I played ESO for PvP and Black Desert for PvE.

ZOS_Volpe · March 2020

Greetings,

Because this discussion has derailed with baiting comments and has not been very constructive, we have decided to go ahead and close it down. Please be sure to Community Rules in mind when posting in the future.

Thank you for your understanding