Crown prices are DISGUSTING

Czeri · March 2020

To be fair, I don't think the most expensive houses (12k and over) were selling all that well, judging by the fact we're getting more and more houses priced around 6k. But you're right, that's still a lot. It just doesn't seem so when you're used to crown houses being twice that...

I still think there should be new houses available for gold, though. Summerset was the last zone with a house you could buy for gold...

Ratzkifal · March 2020

It's really a shame. Housing is probably the worst part about the game in terms of microtransaction-infestation.
You pay a ton of money for a house you still need to furnish yourself, which can be fun of course, until you remember you can only get the best furniture if you pay more money. If it were only nonessential prestige stuff, then that would be okay, but essential things like functioning hearth-fires or books to fill all the empty bookshelves you can get without paying...
It's disgusting.

furiouslog · March 2020

Magenpie wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Magenpie wrote: »

However, customers are also perfectly within their rights to complain about products they use directly to the manufacturers of those products. You're right, we really don't know about costs of servers, profit margins etc etc. But those things don't actually matter, it's not up to customers to worry about a company's bottom line and they are allowed to express annoyance at unreasonably high prices.

I'm not arguing your right to complain, I'm arguing that the assumption that ZOS will make more money by lowering prices is flawed. I'd also say that characterizing their prices as "unreasonable" is an opinion with no factual basis, which is furthermore biased since it implies that the price is not "fair" and neither you nor I have the appropriate data to make that determination.

I agree we don't have the information you describe. Can I ask, what do you mean by 'fairness.' I'm genuinely interested because it can mean a lot of things in terms of retail arrangements.

I think it's important for customers to express their opinions about the pricing of products, and imho, companies are foolish if they don't take note. That doesn't mean they have to do anything about it, of course, but surely it comes down sales gains/losses.

The OP is annoyed at the cost of this particular house and uses good comparisions to show why they think so. Look at it another way, they are saying, 'I would buy this if it were cheaper.' Whatever we imagine about other sales made on that house, it's a sale lost to ZOS.

I put "fair" in quotes because I was interpreting your position that the price is "unreasonable". If you articulate exactly what an "unreasonable" price is, then I can tell you what "fair" means.

As far as listening to consumers, I totally agree. However, if you ask anyone if they'd like the thing that they want to buy to be cheaper or not, they are always going to say that they want it to be cheaper, and they might even say they'd refuse to buy it unless it was cheaper and then turn around and buy it anyway. As such, actual purchasing data is a much better measure of consumer response to pricing, and it is my assumption that ZOS has enough of a historical understanding of ESO players' purchasing behavior that they know exactly how to set prices to maximize their profits, which might leave some people without the house that they want, but can hardly be called "unreasonable" if ZOS is making the most money that they are able by setting their product at that price.

I hate that I have to pay nearly $1000 for a new iPhone. Is that price unreasonable? If it were, Apple would fail, because no one would buy iPhones. Sometimes they do fail relative to their target. Maybe ZOS really messed up on the price of this house, and they won't hit their targets. A year from now, during some event, they could make the house available with an ESO+ discount and try to close the gaps. If their sales and margins meet or exceed their targets at that point, it could be factually argued that the original price was "unreasonable" relative to historical consumer demand and price sensitivity, but we as consumers would still not know that for sure., only ZOS would really know if their pricing was "unreasonable".

Aznarb · March 2020

And no one force you to buy it.
Look I love how some car look, but they're so expensive that disgusting, it's not fair they should be cheaper..
See ? That stupid.
Don't buy what you can't buy, I promise it will not change your life.

FlipFlopFrog · March 2020

Tandor wrote: »

FlipFlopFrog wrote: »

The new house 'Forge master Falls' almost had me returning to ESO. I was sooo close but then.....I looked at the DISGUSTING price...what is with that price-tag man?! Unfurnished 6,200 crowns ($47.98) or furnished 7,800 crowns ($64.98) Why the hell should someone (who may well be paying $14.99 per month anyway for ESO+) pay more money than the base game plus all previous expansions for an in-game house?

Also just to clarify, I'm not against an in game shop if the prices are reasonable...

They won't have to. If someone is an ESO+ member then they can use their free crowns to buy the house. It's one of the advantages of subscribing.

It depends what tier of eso+ they take out. It would have to be either the the $99.99 tier (14,000 crowns) to be able to afford it in one month, or the $39.99 tier (5500 Crowns) and buying a crown pack to make up the rest. I suppose you could stock pile them? Then again there's so much pressure to buy crown items quickly because they're only available for a short window of time.

Dusk_Coven · March 2020

Tandor wrote: »

They won't have to. If someone is an ESO+ member then they can use their free crowns to buy the house. It's one of the advantages of subscribing.

How are those crowns "free" when to access them you had to PAY your subscription?
It's word trickery used everywhere in advertising. Like "buy 1 get 1 free". No, it's 2 items at half price and you have to buy two at a time.
"Free" just has a stronger effect on people.

drakthir · March 2020

I actually think it's a good price for what you get, multiple pre built-building, loads of space to work with aswell, 3 waterfalls!!!

Magenpie · March 2020

@furiouslog

I hope you don't mind, but I've snipped this down because the post was getting rather huge!

So you're making good points to me, but I still think it's important for customers to freely express their opinions about prices. I think we're a bit bogged down in the semantics of 'unreasonable' and 'fairness' (which is kind of why I asked) when really they are irrelevant. The OP is allowed to say, 'I liked the look of this house, but I think it's far too expensive in relation to my sub fee, how much I pay for expansions, how much I pay for Crowns...etc etc.' And again, we can discuss the imaginary ways ZOS works out how much a house should be so it meets or exceeds their bottom line, but we both have NO IDEA how that pans out.

I feel uncomfy about the comparison to real world physical items, because they just aren't the same thing. I can hear several responses to this though, including carefully considered financial planning which takes into account design, server costs etc etc but the fact is, once an item is on the Crown Store, it's not taking up any physical space on a shelf, or using a continuous materials supply chain to keep them coming, and I think that is a meaningful problem for players who believe the items cost too much money.

But whatever you think of these things, I guess my personal main frustration comes when someone on the forum expresses their annoyance about pricing, and other forum users feel the need to defend ZOS by explaining why/how/where they have to meet their costs. It doesn't matter a damn, and the question isn't for them to answer or address. It's aimed at ZOS. I've tried to find a way of contacting ZOS off the forums, but there doesn't appear to be any, apart from submitting a ticket, and I don't think it's an appropriate use of that system. So players only have the forum to express their views to ZOS, preferably gatekeeper free, and imho, we should support each others gripes and angles so we all get the best game for us. But really, I promise ZOS don't need anyone to fight their corner for them. They can cope.

And I think that conversation is important too! I want the game to thrive, I don't want only one kind of player to have sway over how the game is run - whales/minnows/sharks/dolphins/jellyfish/wetf.

I hope I haven't offended or caused anger, apart from anything it's interesting.

edit: because I made a total pig's ear of formatting. And a load of typos! Sorry

JKorr · March 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

They won't have to. If someone is an ESO+ member then they can use their free crowns to buy the house. It's one of the advantages of subscribing.

How are those crowns "free" when to access them you had to PAY your subscription?
It's word trickery used everywhere in advertising. Like "buy 1 get 1 free". No, it's 2 items at half price and you have to buy two at a time.
"Free" just has a stronger effect on people.

Yes, you have to pay the sub. However in return for the sub, you get the crafting bag, extra bank space, access to dlcs, and I think extra house decorating spaces. The crowns are a bonus, imo. It makes no sense to sub to get crowns to match what you pay for the sub, when you could simply use the RL cash to buy crowns.

Tandor · March 2020

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

They won't have to. If someone is an ESO+ member then they can use their free crowns to buy the house. It's one of the advantages of subscribing.

How are those crowns "free" when to access them you had to PAY your subscription?
It's word trickery used everywhere in advertising. Like "buy 1 get 1 free". No, it's 2 items at half price and you have to buy two at a time.
"Free" just has a stronger effect on people.

Because the sub is priced at the going rate regardless of what's included in it, in fact it's been at that level in MMOs since 1998 or 1999.The crowns are a bonus or, if you're that interested in the crown store, they actually cover the cost of the subscription in themselves.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2020

Also don't believe anything "exclusive" as well they always bring them back

SteveCampsOut · March 2020

Just Opt Out! As long as there are people buying at the ludicrous pricing they will continue to charge them. The only way it will ever change is if you can convince the masses to stop spending and frankly, I just don't think that's possible.

sherahd · March 2020

So many things I could afford, but refuse to pay for. Some of those houses I'll never buy out of principle. Race and name changes only get bought when on sale. I pretty much only buy crowns when on sale and I get the big package to get the best deal. I'll live off that for the year while my sub replenishes it. I doubt they'll ever lower prices because too many people gladly pay those prices. I'm not knocking them for spending their hard earned money. Just saying I don't see them changing prices because people pay them, and that'll just keep me from buying some things personally. It is what it is. More people would buy stuff if the prices weren't crazy. I feel they'd make more money, too. But, what do I know?

kargen27 · March 2020

Brandathorbel wrote: »

Yes people buy but what Zos doesn't seem to understand by lowering the price they will probably make more money by selling many many more houses.

then the more people with houses, the more subs get renewed and the more people are in the housing system which means more money with furniture packs and crown furniture.

People keep saying this. Thing is large companies usually have an entire department that researches these things and they are usually good at determining a price point that generates the most profit. If their research showed lower prices would generate more profits the change would be made.

Magenpie · March 2020

kargen27 wrote: »

Brandathorbel wrote: »

Yes people buy but what Zos doesn't seem to understand by lowering the price they will probably make more money by selling many many more houses.

then the more people with houses, the more subs get renewed and the more people are in the housing system which means more money with furniture packs and crown furniture.

People keep saying this. Thing is large companies usually have an entire department that researches these things and they are usually good at determining a price point that generates the most profit. If their research showed lower prices would generate more profits the change would be made.

Do they?

furiouslog · March 2020

Magenpie wrote: »

edited for brevity

Hey, nothing you've said is unreasonable or contentious, and I appreciate the dialogue.I'm just respectfully disagreeing with some points based on my reading of them. I'm not defending ZOS either, I'm just trying to get people who complain about pricing to understand why prices are probably set at what they are, because it's not healthy to walk around frustrated about something you can't control and don't understand. I'm trying to add in some understanding based on my personal experience and knowledge.

FWIW I don't have a problem with consumers expressing opinions. I work in marketing research and statistics, so my livelihood actually depends on it. And BTW, if anyone reading this ever gets a call or an email from a marketing research firm about a product they actually like or care about, please spend the time to take the survey - your responses truly have the potential to influence major business decisions that affect the things you like.

Based on my observations of how larger industries consume customer feedback, any posts made on this forum are unlikely to influence how ZOS behaves apart from threads where they directly solicit information, or any reports of bugs or technical issues - until there is an actual problem. That's when the content of threads like this become story fodder to try to explain what happened in the wake of an unexpected result. But if their strategies are predictably and successfully on target, threads like this that complain about price will routinely be dismissed as irrelevant. It's unfortunate, but true.

Of course, if there was a true viral uproar about prices that went too far which spawned a groundswell of negative sentiment including hundreds or thousands of customer complaints, they'd certainly have to address that. However, this thread is going to die and leave the front page within a couple of days, just like past threads that fall into similar buckets of negative sentiment on crown store pricing, of which there are many. It's just not enough to create a large enough issue that it would change ZOS's behavior when you consider that there are about 10-30 people complaining at a time, while they have thousands of customers every month that they have successfully milked for crowns, each of which have made a multitude of purchases under a range of controllable market variables that combine to present a very clear picture of real consumer behavior.

My assumption is that with their data, ZOS's understanding of cost/price/demand/margins is robust enough that if they would truly make more money by lowering prices, they would have done it already, because any producer trying to maximize profits would rationally do that. That is what I am trying to get the OP and others like him/her to understand. I'm not saying that they should be happy, or that it''s right, or that they should not complain. I am saying that the complaints are not going to produce a meaningful response, nor will they change anything, unless actual purchasing behavior also changes such that it fails to meet ZOS's expectations. And if that is the case, there is little point in getting upset about it (unless you just like to get upset in a public forum), because it is purely rational and logical behavior on their part. You might as well complain to a shark about ripping off and eating your leg - it's just nature, man.

Banana · March 2020

An MMO is not recommended for poor people

Erelah · March 2020

Only thing I can say is flood the in game feedback. People read that if enough people do it consistently enough hopefull they will get the message. Make a complaint in a way it is tracked.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · March 2020

I would love for them to introduce a Hearthfire Update like in Skyrim: Template housing with template styles so you can customize your layout and architecture style. Make modular rooms that can be laid out various ways.

One custom plot per region. There could be mini quests required too, like in ES5. The king of the region would ask you to prove yourself to earn citizenship, and would gift you the plot of land when complete.

I would blow all the crowns for that. lol

Magenpie · March 2020

furiouslog wrote: »

edited for brevity

(hee hee hope i've done that right.)

But it's kind of not up to you whether another player wants to express their concerns or not, if you see what I mean? And blimey, I'm glad we don't all sheeple our way through life - meekly not voicing our opinions about how we're treated as consumers because it's 'pointless' to do so. We'd definitely get the worst deal possible and it would be our own fault!

P.S. My 'Insightful' btw

Edit: FFS my typing/composition is terrible this evening. I haven't even had anything to drink! Bah.

idk · March 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Prices are what people are willing to pay

Pretty much this. People are buying the items in the crown store of Zos would have reduced prices long ago. Do not like the price then don't buy it. We are given that divine right to make such a choice.

Magenpie · March 2020

Scion_of_Yggdrasil wrote: »

I would love for them to introduce a Hearthfire Update like in Skyrim: Template housing with template styles so you can customize your layout and architecture style. Make modular rooms that can be laid out various ways.

One custom plot per region. There could be mini quests required too, like in ES5. The king of the region would ask you to prove yourself to earn citizenship, and would gift you the plot of land when complete.

I would blow all the crowns for that. lol

I *think* there is, sort of!! I think the plot at the bottom of Northern Elsweyr is supposed to encourage that - Moon Sugar Meadow? You can get walls and floors and wotnot and build your own place.

I think?

Matchimus · March 2020

You said almost returned. At what price would you have done that?

Naftal · March 2020

Brandathorbel wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

I've been playing Black Desert Online recently and ESO crown shop and prices look VERY good in comparison.

And in ESO you get crowns with the subscription and can also buy most of the crown stuff with gold through other players.

but BDO is free for the most part or only $10. ESO is not.

ESO base game is the same price. Also BDO is heavily pay-to-win.

idk · March 2020

Brandathorbel wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

I've been playing Black Desert Online recently and ESO crown shop and prices look VERY good in comparison.

And in ESO you get crowns with the subscription and can also buy most of the crown stuff with gold through other players.

but BDO is free for the most part or only $10. ESO is not.

and BDO has so little PvP. End game is a joke.

ACESsiggy · March 2020

zvavi wrote: »

Prices are what people are willing to pay. Also, zos needs us to put the eso+ money somewhere...

No you are wrong... majority of sales on ESO store are coming from Subs and the eso currency that comes with it. I'd wager 5k$ us dollars less than 10 percent of all sales are people spending money to fund 100 percent of the cost of these ridiculous prices in the store.

I've mentioned in previous posts the ESO store is beyond ridiculous with pricing.

MercilessnVexed · March 2020

Well that was in the wrong thread. Sorry. Sorry. SORRY!!

Lysette · March 2020

lemonizzle wrote: »

Whales buy multiple 15k crown pixel houses, and in other games, weapon skins and pixel ships for 1-2k dollars. Now that is absurd.

Looks like you are referring to EVE online with this ship price. This is misinformation by the press, who tend to compare it with real dollars - but in fact these kind of ships make just sense in alliance space and are build with in game stuff from alliances for their warfare support -and they build dozens of those in a short amount of time. No one is spending real dollars on them. Absurd is just that "journalists" who know like nothing about the game spit out their idea of the game - which is just plain nonsense.

Nerouyn · March 2020

RefLiberty wrote: »

It seems that the people are buying, since they are keeping the prices like that.
If there is no market, prices drop, it seems it is not the case.

That's not how it works and there are plenty of signs that the game is struggling.

eg. not even coming close to meeting the second stretch goal for the Greymoor reveal this year. Which wasn't unreasonable given how many viewers there were for the Elsweyr reveal.

ZO have made way too many *** moves in recent years - eg. bosmer racial passives - and have probably driven a lot of players away. But they're not going to drop the price of crown store homes because that would be a huge red flag which would send everyone into a panic. And *** of players who paid the ridiculous full price for them/ They'll just keep pumping them out. More and more and more in the hopes of selling any.

Morrowind had 3 homes you could buy with gold and 1 crown store manor. Elsweyr had one partially free manor - which you need 2 other DLCs to fully unlock - and 3 crown store manors.

RefLiberty · March 2020

Banana wrote: »

An MMO is not recommended for poor people

Can I put this though in my signature?