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Easy sneak for non-NB
Kombinator
✭✭✭
Right now we got a sort of any class can play any role style. Some are better, and other are worse, but with the exception of end-game content all is possible, and some claim, that even on that level it can be done.
Only exception is the ability to go sneaky as non-NB. To sneak through impossible situation at pretty much all times without invisibility potions. NB's advantage when it comes to sneaking is overwhelming compared to other classes. The easiest solution would be giving an univerzal invisibility skill. Question is. How would we do that, or should we do it at all. (anonym poll)
Only exception is the ability to go sneaky as non-NB. To sneak through impossible situation at pretty much all times without invisibility potions. NB's advantage when it comes to sneaking is overwhelming compared to other classes. The easiest solution would be giving an univerzal invisibility skill. Question is. How would we do that, or should we do it at all. (anonym poll)
Easy sneak for non-NB 116 votes
NEVER!
77%
90 votes
Only if NB gets buffed in return.
7%
9 votes
Only if it's an ultimate.
0%
1 vote
Only if it can't be used in combat for some reason.
4%
5 votes
Just smash classes together already.
7%
9 votes
Make it ultimate, and non-combat.
1%
2 votes
0
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Bucky_13✭✭✭✭✭
✭No. Just No. Cloak is the one unique thing about nightblades that shouldn't be spread around to other classes. If this becomes a universal skill you might as well stop having classes and make all skills universal. Which would make for a really boring combat system.21 -
Kombinator✭✭✭No. Just No. Cloak is the one unique thing about nightblades that shouldn't be spread around to other classes. If this becomes a universal skill you might as well stop having classes and make all skills universal. Which would make for a really boring combat system.
By that logic let's remove all healing capabilities from everywhere except Templar to make Templar the "unique healer". Also remove the ability of wearing heavy armor from all class except DK, because that is the "unique tank".1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am against as well. Man. You are trying to take away the class identity nb has left, which is not much. Dont steal from those who dont have.Kombinator wrote: »No. Just No. Cloak is the one unique thing about nightblades that shouldn't be spread around to other classes. If this becomes a universal skill you might as well stop having classes and make all skills universal. Which would make for a really boring combat system.
By that logic let's remove all healing capabilities from everywhere except Templar to make Templar the "unique healer". Also remove the ability of wearing heavy armor from all class except DK, because that is the "unique tank".
Seriously? Dk has much more identity than being a tank. Or templars being healers. You too can slot 7 medium, chose a set that reduces detection radius, put on vamp lvl 4, and run around in sneak. But invisablity in a universal skill? No.Edited by zvavi on March 16, 2020 11:13AM12 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stage four vampire, 5-piece of Night Mother's Embrace, 3-piece of Night Terror, 4-piece of Darloc Brae.
Skill/pot for invisibility? Who needs that?12 -
RaunHunter✭✭✭I will have to agree with @Bucky_13 here. NBs are already at a disadvantaged spot when it comes to PvE content. Take away cloak, and there is literally no incentive to play that class. It is not fair to compare invisibility to healing or tanking. Invisibility is a specific skill, not a concept. We can't compare apples to oranges. And hey, if you really need it, there are invis pots already.Lesson #1: Red means dead.8 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You do that and Wardens, Necros, Sorcs, Templar and even DKs are better assasins / gankers than NB. I dont think any one would want to enable stealth ganking fot those. Imagine how broken would that be...
Also It would made NB a pointless class. Why roll NB if literaly every class can do the same stuff, but better and had its own benefits on top of that ?9 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No
It is unique to NBs and it should stay that way
I think class has been beaten up enough8 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »You do that and Wardens, Necros, Sorcs, Templar and even DKs are better assasins / gankers than NB. I dont think any one would want to enable stealth ganking fot those. Imagine how broken would that be...
Also It would made NB a pointless class. Why roll NB if literaly every class can do the same stuff, but better and had its own benefits on top of that ?
Well there is an option to make it useless in combat.
WoW mage invisibility style for example. It has some CD so we could call ultimate for ESO. The backstory is, that you temporarily go into another dimension. Which means, that you become invisible, but also unable to see, or touch any other character. Which means, that you could NOT stealth gank ANYONE at all. The moment you enter that invisibility everyone seemingly vanish from your eyes, and you can't interract with others until it ends.
Or an easier way is to give a 99% damage reduction while you using it.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭RaunHunter wrote: »I will have to agree with @Bucky_13 here. NBs are already at a disadvantaged spot when it comes to PvE content. Take away cloak, and there is literally no incentive to play that class. It is not fair to compare invisibility to healing or tanking. Invisibility is a specific skill, not a concept. We can't compare apples to oranges. And hey, if you really need it, there are invis pots already.
You basically give ONE reason to play a class. Well i given the idea for the same for two other class. Make them "unique". Give a unique reason to play it. Right now NB has ONE reason to play, and others have 0, because NB can do all of it, AND more!
Also there is an option to buff NB in return. So it would lose it's unique stealthing capability, but in return it would be better at everything else.0 -
actosh✭✭✭✭✭new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Cirantille wrote: »No
It is unique to NBs and it should stay that way
I think class has been beaten up enough
"Only if NB gets buffed in return"
But i assume you would prefer to have NB beaten to dust, but keep it unique, than letting other classes have it.0 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I voted NEVER!
But that doesn't mean it's going to remain true. As already said, I would be very surprised if the Vampire Re-Vamp' doesn't offer an invisibility spell.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭I am against as well. Man. You are trying to take away the class identity nb has left, which is not much. Dont steal from those who dont have.Kombinator wrote: »No. Just No. Cloak is the one unique thing about nightblades that shouldn't be spread around to other classes. If this becomes a universal skill you might as well stop having classes and make all skills universal. Which would make for a really boring combat system.
By that logic let's remove all healing capabilities from everywhere except Templar to make Templar the "unique healer". Also remove the ability of wearing heavy armor from all class except DK, because that is the "unique tank".
Seriously? Dk has much more identity than being a tank. Or templars being healers. You too can slot 7 medium, chose a set that reduces detection radius, put on vamp lvl 4, and run around in sneak. But invisablity in a universal skill? No.
None of the classes has any identity at all beside NB. They all can do the exact same stuff, and must work nearly the same level. You wana be a Templar tank? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it. You wana be a relevant healer as sorc? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it.
You wana sneak through an army with NB? Level up one skill, and buy magicka potions, or be magicka based.
Wana sneak through an army with anything else? Farm 2 sets, become vampire, f*** your appearance by going lvl4, get your medium armor, and vampire skill tree leveled, give a talent for it, max out alchemy, stack up invisbility potions, and then you can be almost as good as an NB.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »RaunHunter wrote: »I will have to agree with @Bucky_13 here. NBs are already at a disadvantaged spot when it comes to PvE content. Take away cloak, and there is literally no incentive to play that class. It is not fair to compare invisibility to healing or tanking. Invisibility is a specific skill, not a concept. We can't compare apples to oranges. And hey, if you really need it, there are invis pots already.
You basically give ONE reason to play a class. Well i given the idea for the same for two other class. Make them "unique". Give a unique reason to play it. Right now NB has ONE reason to play, and others have 0, because NB can do all of it, AND more!
Also there is an option to buff NB in return. So it would lose it's unique stealthing capability, but in return it would be better at everything else.
Are you serious with me?
Dk has dots, regen on ult, melee identity.
Templar have jabs, purge field synergy that everyone can use, heals implemented in their dmg skills.
Nightblade cant "leap" that stuns and gives you huge shield and tons of resources. Well ye, we gave 1 reason to play nightblade, have 3 for each of the other classes you mentioned. Can nightblade do them?4 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »None of the classes has any identity at all beside NB. They all can do the exact same stuff, and must work nearly the same level. You wana be a Templar tank? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it. You wana be a relevant healer as sorc? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it.
You wana sneak through an army with NB? Level up one skill, and buy magicka potions, or be magicka based.
Wana sneak through an army with anything else? Farm 2 sets, become vampire, f*** your appearance by going lvl4, get your medium armor, and vampire skill tree leveled, give a talent for it, max out alchemy, stack up invisbility potions, and then you can be almost as good as an NB.
So wrong. So f***ing wrong. If it was true, i would still be tanking on dk. But no. Tanking on nb and sorc is different. Has different feel. Has different skills to support the group. You are saying that all non nb's can just put on gear and go do the role now lets put aside that all classes can craft invisablity potions (some event invis potions are dirty cheap) ROLE IS NOT F****ING IDENTITY . Excuse me for language.
Edit: you dont even read my arguments. I said specifically that templars have heal implemented in their damage skills, your answer to that was that nightblades can heal as well, did i say they cant? No.Edited by zvavi on March 16, 2020 11:50AM4 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »RaunHunter wrote: »I will have to agree with @Bucky_13 here. NBs are already at a disadvantaged spot when it comes to PvE content. Take away cloak, and there is literally no incentive to play that class. It is not fair to compare invisibility to healing or tanking. Invisibility is a specific skill, not a concept. We can't compare apples to oranges. And hey, if you really need it, there are invis pots already.
You basically give ONE reason to play a class. Well i given the idea for the same for two other class. Make them "unique". Give a unique reason to play it. Right now NB has ONE reason to play, and others have 0, because NB can do all of it, AND more!
Also there is an option to buff NB in return. So it would lose it's unique stealthing capability, but in return it would be better at everything else.
Are you serious with me?
Dk has dots, regen on ult, melee identity.
Templar have jabs, purge field synergy that everyone can use, heals implemented in their dmg skills.
Nightblade cant "leap" that stuns and gives you huge shield and tons of resources. Well ye, we gave 1 reason to play nightblade, have 3 for each of the other classes you mentioned. Can nightblade do them?
Nightblade can play healer still. It has instant target heal, can use resto staff, has superior ultimate heal, some minor AOE heal, that also grants big speed bonus.
Nightblade can tank as well. I did a lot. It magicka based CC sparing the stamina one, easy to get minor protection, mayor resolve, superior % self heal, and a bunch of damage mitigation. Complete with AOE stun ultimate, that also makes him pretty much unkillable for a time when used on many enemies. Beyond that he got extra stamina from attacks, and extra stamina boost when leeching strikes ends.
I know for sure, that it can go stamina dps as well. Mayor fracture, brutality, teleport strike, multiple dots, and extra movement speed. I never tried magicka NB, but i believe, that it can be done.
Can you get past 2 enemies in a narrow tunnel without invisibility potion with any other class? The answer is: NO.
Also there is the "only if NB gets buffed in return". Which would server to make the class better in other stuff.
Also there is the "only if can't be used for combat". Which would serve to ensure, that other class don't get unfairly strong because of it.Edited by Kombinator on March 16, 2020 11:43AM0 -
WilliamESO✭✭✭Forced to be vampire for mobiliy in pvp is very unbalanced stop listen pve players...1
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Kombinator✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »None of the classes has any identity at all beside NB. They all can do the exact same stuff, and must work nearly the same level. You wana be a Templar tank? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it. You wana be a relevant healer as sorc? Level up the relevant skills, farm/craft the relevant gear, and go for it.
You wana sneak through an army with NB? Level up one skill, and buy magicka potions, or be magicka based.
Wana sneak through an army with anything else? Farm 2 sets, become vampire, f*** your appearance by going lvl4, get your medium armor, and vampire skill tree leveled, give a talent for it, max out alchemy, stack up invisbility potions, and then you can be almost as good as an NB.
So wrong. So f***ing wrong. If it was true, i would still be tanking on dk. But no. Tanking on nb and sorc is different. Has different feel. Has different skills to support the group. You are saying that all non nb's can just put on gear and go do the role now lets put aside that all classes can craft invisablity potions (some event invis potions are dirty cheap) ROLE IS NOT F****ING IDENTITY . Excuse me for language.
Different != impossible.
Look kid the other classes has no identity. You wana be a mage who can destroy everyone with his staff? Destro skill tree combined with mage guild skills alone are enough, but NB also got some own magicka based damage as well. And i think, that so are everyone else. Templar got an entire skill tree around it, and Sorcerer is pretty much based on it.
You wana be a big guy with a big sword smashing skulls? Two-Handed skill tree supported with undaunted, and fighters guild.
You wana go tanking? Shield+onehanded, undaunted, fighter's guild, and i know for sure, that NB, and Templar bot has some aoe buff, debuff, and survival on their own way. NB has % self heal, and more mitigation. Templar has magicka based damage shield, and a bit extra renegeration to magicka/stamina. NB in return can get magicka/stamina from basic attacks, and some extra boost when skill ends.
I already played tank with NB, and Templar, played healer with both, and played Templar magicka DD, and NB stamina DD. You know what was the difference? The colors on screen. Given the right order i didn't even needed the change that. Well except for the stamina DD, because that one is melee, and that is truly a different experience, but hardly a unique identity.
Now that i think it through the Sorcerer also has a bit of an identity of being the badass mage with ultimate replacing his weapon with magic. But for some reason the idea of casting spells with bare hands does not come with such outrage. Also being an ultimate it's not something, that you can maintain 100% of the time.Edited by Kombinator on March 16, 2020 11:55AM0 -
Tatanko✭✭✭✭There is just no need for this. My Templar (who isn't even a Khajiit) can already run around at near-sprinting speeds while fully stealthed with a small detection radius, and I accomplish that entirely with gear -- no skills, no potions.4 -
mocap✭✭✭✭✭
✭
you can use disguises. It's hard as f... though.Kombinator wrote: »Can you get past 2 enemies in a narrow tunnel without invisibility potion with any other class?0 -
RaunHunter✭✭✭Kombinator wrote: »You basically give ONE reason to play a class. Well i given the idea for the same for two other class. Make them "unique". Give a unique reason to play it. Right now NB has ONE reason to play, and others have 0, because NB can do all of it, AND more!
Also there is an option to buff NB in return. So it would lose it's unique stealthing capability, but in return it would be better at everything else.
Are you really arguing that NB is the only class with a reason to play? I strongly disagree with that. Other classes have equally unique skills that fit their theme. Asking why there isn't a universal invisibility skill is equivalent to asking why there isn't a universal summon familiar skill or a universal resurrect dead skill. Speaking of that example, is there ANY way for anyone except Necromancer to resurrect multiple dead allies instantly in a huge area? No. There is no way you can achieve that; not through potions or sets. Is that a reason to complain and ask for a universal insta-res skill? I don't think so.Lesson #1: Red means dead.4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Other classes already have easy sneak with vampire. It’s just a bit harder to go into stealth as another class.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Kombinator✭✭✭RaunHunter wrote: »Kombinator wrote: »You basically give ONE reason to play a class. Well i given the idea for the same for two other class. Make them "unique". Give a unique reason to play it. Right now NB has ONE reason to play, and others have 0, because NB can do all of it, AND more!
Also there is an option to buff NB in return. So it would lose it's unique stealthing capability, but in return it would be better at everything else.
Are you really arguing that NB is the only class with a reason to play? I strongly disagree with that. Other classes have equally unique skills that fit their theme. Asking why there isn't a universal invisibility skill is equivalent to asking why there isn't a universal summon familiar skill or a universal resurrect dead skill. Speaking of that example, is there ANY way for anyone except Necromancer to resurrect multiple dead allies instantly in a huge area? No. There is no way you can achieve that; not through potions or sets. Is that a reason to complain and ask for a universal insta-res skill? I don't think so.
NB has a unique reason to go with. Something you can't do with anything else. Since Orsinium, and Morrowind i got multiple go stealth missions, and i can imagine, that Thieve's guild, and Dark Brotherhood would demand such. Or at least the roleplay would demand it.
Also once you got a high level NB you have no reason to play anything else beyond roleplay, and curiousity, or guild needs. You can play every role with it. If you got all other class with all other role you still have a reason to start an NB to experience superior sneak power, and new ways of missions. Not to mention the fact, that it's faster to sneak through everyone, than fight through everyone in a narrow tunnel.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Different != Impossible. Potions. And for the 2nd time, role is not identity. You literally answered where i already typed it, saying that everyone can tank, be a mag dd, be a stam dd. So ye. Role !=identity. Want to always have option to go invisible? Stack on the event invis potions, put them in the bank, use banker to take them out. here, you don't have to farm for sets. You can already do it. On any class. But through skills? No.Edited by zvavi on March 16, 2020 12:19PM1 -
Kombinator✭✭✭
you can use disguises. It's hard as f... though.Kombinator wrote: »Can you get past 2 enemies in a narrow tunnel without invisibility potion with any other class?
Not always available.0 -
Kombinator✭✭✭new vampline will for sure offer invisibility and a streaklike dash.
A awesome burstheal(self and group) major vuln ult and everyone can be happy ^^
NB has awesome self, and group burstheal by ultimate by the way. Also what if i wana be a werewolf? Or wish to remain mortal?
Must i start an NB, or go vampire to experience superior sneak power.0
