Lets talk about loot discrimination i.e. how rewarding only the top12 of DPS is ruining the fun

ValueDrift · March 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

Umm, I had no idea that a 12 person cap existed... does it?

Yeah. Pretty sure it doesn't exist on dragons, but it is on everything else. I remember in Imperial City event when I was with a large group killing the aspect of Molag, I had to remove my tanky PvP gear and equip PvE stuff to get drops. Tanks and healers would have had no chance.

Donny_Vito · March 2020

Murkmire event really just highlighted the problem, honestly.

It's probably one of the under-performing DLC regions, so when people came there for event tickets they basically went to the one world boss right next to the wayshrine as it was the easiest and most convenient. But yeah, I tried not to bring my Tank during prime-time if I wanted tickets...instead a dedicated DPS to ensure an easy drop.

jazsper77 · March 2020

Ah , the usual get git gud crowd. You see OP these are the players who say nothing is ever wrong. Because if ZOS fixed drops so everyone got something it would dilute the Zone chat WTS. These same players spam event after event running 10-18 toons through the dailies. One word GREED. The more players who can get loot cuts into there profit. So yes rich gets richer.

VaranisArano · March 2020

Grianasteri wrote: »

Umm, I had no idea that a 12 person cap existed... does it?

I thought it was simply based on how much damage an individual does to a boss. So as long as you get a few hits in, your are all good...

Maybe I was wrong, every day is a learning day...

You do have to do at least 3% damage to an enemy to qualify for loot - ZOS lowered it to that a while back, maybe about the same time as they implemented the anti-bot damage on dolmens, IIRC.

Arunei · March 2020

@ValueDrift
Yup, this cap doesn't exist on Dragons, but pretty much every other 'boss' in the game counts (I'm not sure if the boss for geysers/Dolmens are counted or not).

Either way, to anyone saying "just do more damage", as others have pointed out that won't stop the fact that there will ALWAYS be someone not getting loot if there are 13+ people doing bosses, and that really shouldn't be the case. You shouldn't be able to contribute to a fight and then not get anything from it because someone managed to do a little more damage than you. "Get better" or "do more damage" or "use different gear" is not the right answer because it doesn't get around that cap, and if anything everyone forcing one another to do more damage for any individual to get their loot means the DPS required to get drops will keep going up and up, which means less skilled or capable players will be the less likely ones to get said drops.

There are others ways to discourage campers/griefers/gold sellers than capping loot, because in the end? All that does is discourage your legitimate players, ZOS.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

Rave the Histborn · March 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2020

Step 1 - equip an execute

Step 2 - spam the execute once the monster gets to 50% while ignoring everything you think you know about rotations

Step 3 - profit

If you are a healer chances are you may be a Templar. If you can’t get loot in a game where radiant oppression exists you aren’t trying.

GrumpyDuckling · March 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

TigressCreed · March 2020

Did you...did you just create another damn thing to be sensitive about and call “discrimination”? It’s legit impossible to please everyone. Grow up

ZonasArch · March 2020

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Step 1 - equip an execute

Step 2 - spam the execute once the monster gets to 50% while ignoring everything you think you know about rotations

Step 3 - profit

If you are a healer chances are you may be a Templar. If you can’t get loot in a game where radiant oppression exists you aren’t trying.

It's really actually for real absolutely this simple.

TheRealCherokeee3 · March 2020

idk wrote: »

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

The 12 person loot rule is an anti-gold bot measure. If you look up videos from release, 100s of bots would camp delve bosses and kill upon spawn farming the gold drops.

They avoid this with dragons because of the high health and the low low gold amount that drops.

I can attest to bots being everywhere during the early days of this game and Zos made sweeping changes to loot as a result.

I remember one delve boss a group of bots were standing in the corner. One was a DK who would chain the boss and pull it to the bots before any player could get damage on it.

Regardless, OP has it wrong about who gets the loot. DPS is less about the gear and more about player skill.

was about player skill before the changes now:/

Rave the Histborn · March 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

It's not a strawman, you can't play how you want in vet trials and dungeons.

Play how you want means if you want to play as a tank or healer and overland you can, that doesn't also entitle you to the rewards.

What purpose do tanks and healers have in overland? Why would you reward them if the objective is to do damage?

GrumpyDuckling · March 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

It's not a strawman, you can't play how you want in vet trials and dungeons.

Play how you want means if you want to play as a tank or healer and overland you can, that doesn't also entitle you to the rewards.

What purpose do tanks and healers have in overland? Why would you reward them if the objective is to do damage?

The objective of beating a world boss can absolutely be more than simply who does the most damage. Players can tank for others, and players can heal for others. They are contributing to the combined objective of defeating the boss, so I don't see any reason why players ONLY get rewarded for damage done. That's why I suggest that players also get loot for tanking a certain amount of damage or for healing a certain amount of health.

It gives players more ways to play, and it makes sense because they are contributing. I don't know why you take issue with this.

Agenericname · March 2020

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

It's not a strawman, you can't play how you want in vet trials and dungeons.

Play how you want means if you want to play as a tank or healer and overland you can, that doesn't also entitle you to the rewards.

What purpose do tanks and healers have in overland? Why would you reward them if the objective is to do damage?

The objective in a trial is damage. Nobody blocks or heals a boss to death.

Nestor · March 2020

Where is this 3% rule coming from?

You simply have to participate in the battle to get a chance for loot. Healers have to heal someone, the tank just has to get a hit in to get a chance.

There is no 3% Rule in this game. I have tagged a world boss with just one or two light attacks many times in the game during guild zerg events and recieved a Boss Drop.

VaranisArano · March 2020

Nestor wrote: »

Where is this 3% rule coming from?

You simply have to participate in the battle to get a chance for loot. Healers have to heal someone, the tank just has to get a hit in to get a chance.

There is no 3% Rule in this game. I have tagged a world boss with just one or two light attacks many times in the game during guild zerg events and recieved a Boss Drop.

Its from One Tamriel.
"In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3412947#Comment_3412947

Nestor · March 2020

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Where is this 3% rule coming from?

You simply have to participate in the battle to get a chance for loot. Healers have to heal someone, the tank just has to get a hit in to get a chance.

There is no 3% Rule in this game. I have tagged a world boss with just one or two light attacks many times in the game during guild zerg events and recieved a Boss Drop.

Its from One Tamriel.
"In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3412947#Comment_3412947

It was changed since then as Healers and Tanks were never getting loot. Now you just have to heal someone doing DPS or get a hit in as a tank, like with Puncture.

VaranisArano · March 2020

Nestor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Where is this 3% rule coming from?

You simply have to participate in the battle to get a chance for loot. Healers have to heal someone, the tank just has to get a hit in to get a chance.

There is no 3% Rule in this game. I have tagged a world boss with just one or two light attacks many times in the game during guild zerg events and recieved a Boss Drop.

Its from One Tamriel.
"In order to get loot and XP credit for killing a mob, you now only need to deal 3% of its maximum health instead of the previous 10%."
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3412947#Comment_3412947

It was changed since then as Healers and Tanks were never getting loot. Now you just have to heal someone doing DPS or get a hit in as a tank, like with Puncture.

Good to know! Do you by any chance know around which update that was? I like to keep track of things like that and I apparently missed the change.

Nestor · March 2020

It was about 6 months or so after 1T, could have been longer. My time relativity is skewed...

But i know i have only LA Tagged a WB a few times and couple of times i would get a Boss drop getting a light attack in just as the boss dies.

My guild does a Weekly World Boss Tour and we have had 24 people in our group alone. When i would lead the group i would just do a ping or two so others would feel like they have done something.

Mr_Walker · March 2020

It's not just 12 people, I've tanked Graveld multiple times with 3-4 other players and gotten zero loot.

dazee · March 2020

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards.

Laughing so hard right now I can't even.. best joke of the century.

VaranisArano · March 2020

Nestor wrote: »

It was about 6 months or so after 1T, could have been longer. My time relativity is skewed...

But i know i have only LA Tagged a WB a few times and couple of times i would get a Boss drop getting a light attack in just as the boss dies.

My guild does a Weekly World Boss Tour and we have had 24 people in our group alone. When i would lead the group i would just do a ping or two so others would feel like they have done something.

Thanks!

Rave the Histborn · March 2020

Agenericname wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

It's not a strawman, you can't play how you want in vet trials and dungeons.

Play how you want means if you want to play as a tank or healer and overland you can, that doesn't also entitle you to the rewards.

What purpose do tanks and healers have in overland? Why would you reward them if the objective is to do damage?

The objective in a trial is damage. Nobody blocks or heals a boss to death.

That's not the point, you can't play how you want in those scenarios.

Rave the Histborn · March 2020

dazee wrote: »

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards.

Laughing so hard right now I can't even.. best joke of the century.

The only joke is your response XD. Sorry if the truth hurts

Rave the Histborn · March 2020

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Ek1 wrote: »

So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.

Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.

Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.

Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.

Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.

As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.

No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.

ZOS - "Play the way you want."
@Rave the Histborn - "If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards."

@GrumpyDuckling um I think you mean ZOS - "Play the way you want*" (*within reason)

Playing the way you want doesn't mean you're guaranteed the rewards lol, I mean if i queue as a tank for a vet dungeons but I'm a DPS do I also get to whine if I get kicked?

Strawman. Stick to the point. "Play the way you want" shouldn't mean "DD only on overland content (specifically group bosses) to get rewards or GTFO."

Surely there is something wrong with that. There is no reason that tanks and healers shouldn't have purpose in overland content too. It doesn't have to be all about damage done. Loot could still drop for damage tanked, and damage healed.

It's not a strawman, you can't play how you want in vet trials and dungeons.

Play how you want means if you want to play as a tank or healer and overland you can, that doesn't also entitle you to the rewards.

What purpose do tanks and healers have in overland? Why would you reward them if the objective is to do damage?

The objective of beating a world boss can absolutely be more than simply who does the most damage. Players can tank for others, and players can heal for others. They are contributing to the combined objective of defeating the boss, so I don't see any reason why players ONLY get rewarded for damage done. That's why I suggest that players also get loot for tanking a certain amount of damage or for healing a certain amount of health.

It gives players more ways to play, and it makes sense because they are contributing. I don't know why you take issue with this.

It can't. You would need to add mechanics to the WBs if not there is no reason for a tank and unless you significantly upped their damage (think the monk WB) there wouldn't be a need for a dedicated healer. So I dont see a reason why they would add all of that in just to change the drops on events.

The issue is there's no reason for the change other than to satisfy players that are unable to even make the most minor changes to themselves. If you can't change your set to increase your own dps then you cant really want the rewards that bad.

Edit: What do you do if your tank/healer doesn't meant the criteria? During the events the WBs are usually melted down in a few seconds and it's not enough time to tank X dmg or heal X hit points

JumpmanLane · March 2020

Run a lil damage! You’ll be all right!

Ek1 · March 2020

Its remarkable how people miss the fact that only some people get loot and instead focus on how they can get loot.

huntgod_ESO · March 2020

This rarely impacts me, but I agree that it is unnecessary and should probably go away...newer zones and overland boss fights dispensed with it so it's an anachronism from older zones.

dazee · March 2020

I completely agree that DPS is an all important part of the game, but becuase of that EVERY ROLE should be capable of a significant amount, with dps by far the most.

This does in no way mean that people should not be bringing healers or tanks to things.