Is Essence Thief as good as it looks?

RiskyChalice863
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On paper, Essence Thief looks like such a good set for PvP, and, before I try to farm it, I’m just wondering if there’s a catch.

On paper, this set seems like it’s simultaneously a top tier damage set AND a top tier sustain set.

In terms of damage, you get a weapon damage boost and two stamina boosts, and then a 10% damage boost that I believe can have virtually 100% uptime theoretically.* There’s very few sets in the game with that much potential to increase your damage. Maybe New Moon Acolyte, but obviously that comes with a cost increase. Other sets like Shieldbreaker do not increase damage as much as Essence Thief can.

In terms of sustain, you theoretically can get 390 stamina per second from it (or 780 stamina recovery). That’s more than the most that Trappings of Invigoration’s five-piece could give you even if you procced it on cooldown (an unrealistic scenario that’d still only yield 252 stamina per second), and I think it’s way more recovery than Bone Pirate could ever give you. And the two max Stam pieces obviously help a bit with sustain as well.

The cherry on top is that you also can get 3900 healing every 10 seconds. This is obviously nice, though realistically if you compare it to other damage sets that buff weapon damage or stamina, this probably just makes up for the fact that your healing will otherwise be lower with this set.

Granted, I’ve seen videos of it and I understand that the set shoots out an essence in a random direction and therefore you might not always be able to get to it in the 5 seconds before it expires. But here’s the thing: Even if you only get it like 60-70% of the time, we’re still looking at a five-piece on the set that gives you: (1) as much or more overall damage as top-tier damage sets like Shieldbreaker—but with more burst potential; (2) similar sustain as the five-piece on a top-tier sustain set like Trappings of Invigoration; and (3) some fairly significant heals that should largely make up for the loss of healing compared to sets that pump weapon damage on their five-piece. It just seems to me like the five-piece on Essence Thief is incredibly strong, even when you factor in that you won’t always get the essence. And while the rest of the set’s bonuses aren’t perfect (max stam probably isn’t as good as weapon damage), two stam bonuses and one weapon damage bonus is definitely not bad.

So am I missing something or is Essence Thief just really good?


* The set reads to me like a pool is created, you have 5 seconds to pick it up, and then 10 seconds after the pool was created, you can create another one. If that’s right, then essentially 100% uptime is possible even if you’re not picking the essence up immediately. For instance, if you create an essence and then pick it up 3 seconds later, I read the skill as saying that you can create another essence 7 seconds after you picked the last one up (because that would be 10 seconds after the last one was actually created). So you’d have 3 seconds to pick up your next essence before the effect of the first one wears off. That would mean that you could maintain 100% uptime on the ability as long as you didn’t take longer than the previous time to pick the essence up. Naturally, sometimes you would take longer to pick it up than the last time but the potential uptime seems like it’s pretty close to 100%.
  • VaranisArano
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    The catch is that you have to move to the essence to pick it up. YMMV on whether or not that's something you can do easily in the content you want to use it for.

    I tried it out before the rework and personally found that the hassle wasn't worth it for me. You might have a different experience - unfortunately its the sort of set bonus where I think its best to farm it up and try it for oneself.
  • Grianasteri
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    You echo exactly my own thoughts on the set. I farmed it because frankly it looked so good on paper (ages ago now). I actually wrote quite a similar post at the time.

    The reality was, in practice, in actual content, especially vet DLC content, you just couldnt get to the essence in time, if indeed you could locate it in among all the chaos, which was by no means guaranteed... so the extra concentration to spot and track it/locate it, then the time taken to get to it... you can see the issues. It could be dangerous to go after, doing so often stopped some of your dps, and half the time you couldnt get it anyway.

    Crucially, note that before it was recently reworked, the essence travelled quite a long distance, so far in fact that sometimes it settled in a location that was actually impossible to get, even if you located it and had the time.

    The rework drastically reduced the distance the essence travelled, it now lands right next to the enemy, so picking it up seems infinitely more doable consistently. I tried it briefly and yes it was way way better. But by then that build had moved on and I kinda no longer felt I needed it, Id got other sets and become comfortable with the build.

    Its entirely possible it is an overlooked set after the rework. Meta is meta and whatever the content providers say is meta tends to be and anything else kinda gets shot down.

    You may have inspired me to actually go pop it back on and go an parse to compare it to my existing melee stam builds.
    .
    Edited by Grianasteri on March 10, 2020 3:11PM
  • MentalxHammer
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    It is strong, however there is a learning curve to using the set. I feel like I'm playing a Mario Party mini game with this set equipped on top of my whole rotation. With that being said it's my favorite set in the game =)
  • ATreeGnome
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    I've got a friend who's actually good at PVP and he swears by Essence thief. I'm mostly just a PvEr so I couldn't give you details but there are definitely some people who use it quite effectively for PvP.
  • AMeanOne
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    It's a good set, it just doesn't buff your heals like weapon damage sets do
  • MudcrabAttack
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    I can imagine it's more effective in no CP, where resource regen and damage multipliers are harder to come by. Otherwise the 10% buff is additive to other multipliers like master at arms, mighty and thaumaturge, so it gets watered down
  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    Can you farm just the armor, @RiskyChalice863??

    Because it only takes a few runs in normal White-Gold Tower on pledge day (trading with group members) to get all the armor pieces.

    That way you can test it out in PvP with few regrets.

    If you need the weapons and jewelry (especially the jewelry in purple), then that’s a lot more time commitment.

    But, as @Grianasteri points out, the set has been buffed enough to be of some use in PvP ... especially if you have a rolly-polly Bosmer.

    I’ve been running Essence Thief with the improved Morkuldin on my Stamplar. But, have only done a limited amount of PvP on it ... so the jury’s still out for me.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on March 11, 2020 1:04AM
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Very good even in PVE .

    I dropped AY and use ET .

    But you have to pay high attention during fight lol .
    Edited by ccfeeling on March 11, 2020 1:06AM
  • universal_wrath
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    On paper, Essence Thief looks like such a good set for PvP, and, before I try to farm it, I’m just wondering if there’s a catch.

    On paper, this set seems like it’s simultaneously a top tier damage set AND a top tier sustain set.

    In terms of damage, you get a weapon damage boost and two stamina boosts, and then a 10% damage boost that I believe can have virtually 100% uptime theoretically.* There’s very few sets in the game with that much potential to increase your damage. Maybe New Moon Acolyte, but obviously that comes with a cost increase. Other sets like Shieldbreaker do not increase damage as much as Essence Thief can.

    In terms of sustain, you theoretically can get 390 stamina per second from it (or 780 stamina recovery). That’s more than the most that Trappings of Invigoration’s five-piece could give you even if you procced it on cooldown (an unrealistic scenario that’d still only yield 252 stamina per second), and I think it’s way more recovery than Bone Pirate could ever give you. And the two max Stam pieces obviously help a bit with sustain as well.

    The cherry on top is that you also can get 3900 healing every 10 seconds. This is obviously nice, though realistically if you compare it to other damage sets that buff weapon damage or stamina, this probably just makes up for the fact that your healing will otherwise be lower with this set.

    Granted, I’ve seen videos of it and I understand that the set shoots out an essence in a random direction and therefore you might not always be able to get to it in the 5 seconds before it expires. But here’s the thing: Even if you only get it like 60-70% of the time, we’re still looking at a five-piece on the set that gives you: (1) as much or more overall damage as top-tier damage sets like Shieldbreaker—but with more burst potential; (2) similar sustain as the five-piece on a top-tier sustain set like Trappings of Invigoration; and (3) some fairly significant heals that should largely make up for the loss of healing compared to sets that pump weapon damage on their five-piece. It just seems to me like the five-piece on Essence Thief is incredibly strong, even when you factor in that you won’t always get the essence. And while the rest of the set’s bonuses aren’t perfect (max stam probably isn’t as good as weapon damage), two stam bonuses and one weapon damage bonus is definitely not bad.

    So am I missing something or is Essence Thief just really good?


    * The set reads to me like a pool is created, you have 5 seconds to pick it up, and then 10 seconds after the pool was created, you can create another one. If that’s right, then essentially 100% uptime is possible even if you’re not picking the essence up immediately. For instance, if you create an essence and then pick it up 3 seconds later, I read the skill as saying that you can create another essence 7 seconds after you picked the last one up (because that would be 10 seconds after the last one was actually created). So you’d have 3 seconds to pick up your next essence before the effect of the first one wears off. That would mean that you could maintain 100% uptime on the ability as long as you didn’t take longer than the previous time to pick the essence up. Naturally, sometimes you would take longer to pick it up than the last time but the potential uptime seems like it’s pretty close to 100%.

    The set is good but you should know that it idoes not increase your weapon dmg but rather your overall dmg much like minor berserk does. I always find procing the set in pvp setting much easier with a bow since you come from range and LA, you see the essence pool before you reach the target, pick it up and be buffed for 10 secs. You can arguable 1 bar the set on your buffing/defensive bar and use vma/as or any 2 piece weapons on front bar. Likewise you can put it on your front bar and backbar any 2 piece sets. The direction, duration and distance at which the pool spawn have been improved greatly. Very close to target, and only last 5 secs instead of 10secs so it is easier to reset if you skerew up and did not pick because it was somewhere harder to reach.
  • Austinseph1
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    It's one of the sets that sounds good on paper but it won't be reliable enough to maximize the use. In niche cases it may work, but you would probably be better off with a more general and consistent set unless you just like collecting multiple sets for fun... Which is perfectly fine if you have fun with it.
  • Nevasca
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    Well I think the set can be situationally good.

    PvP: 1v1 is actually the strongest set you can use IMO. BGs? You can make it work but expect low uptime, you have so much *** to worry about and sometimes the proc isnt the priority. Large scale cyrodil you move too much for this tl be viable.

    PvE: You don't need the sustain in most situations. Damage is actually worse than than BiS alternatives (AY, Relequen, Lokk, etc). In a lot of fights where you stack tight, you cant use this set because it can drop on the other sids of the stack instead of the sides. Halls of Fabrication for example, when you are killing the arms, it will always drop on the ground and you will never be able to pick it up. It works well on vma but some fights is detrimental for you.
  • xinecallaw
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    I tested out this set on my tank just to see if the sustain assistance was worth it, and in vet dungeons, particularly DLC's the set proved worthless because the damn things would almost always spawn away from you and you cant get it because it would turn the boss towards other players or be in an aoe that you need to stay out of. In pvp, this could be mitigated with a speed build and the fact that you want to stay constantly moving in pvp.
  • Grianasteri
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    xinecallaw wrote: »
    I tested out this set on my tank just to see if the sustain assistance was worth it, and in vet dungeons, particularly DLC's the set proved worthless because the damn things would almost always spawn away from you and you cant get it because it would turn the boss towards other players or be in an aoe that you need to stay out of. In pvp, this could be mitigated with a speed build and the fact that you want to stay constantly moving in pvp.

    Im thinking you probably tested it before it has been updated. It procs literally right beside your target now. So if you are fighting in melee range, its far easier to pick up the buff.

    Ive tried it before and after and its markedly improved now, though Id still class it as a 2nd tier set. Briefly chatted with th3asiangod recently who also confirmed its still behind meta dps sets.
  • Spearpoint
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    How would this be on NB with Ambush, for small scale cyro PvP and BGs?
    Arinwyn ~ Cute Wood Elf Archer
    Wardena ~ Frost Wardeness [Died alongside Arctic Blast]
    Dry Spell ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ
    Dark Heart of Skyrim 🍺
    Bomblebee ~ cya'll out there
    Bouncing Betty ~ Front Toward Enemy
    Spearpoint ~ Jab Them With The Pointy End
    Six Feet Above ~ Reapertime!
    Bisolar Disorder - Bright & Moody
    Django Unleashed ~ Mr. Nordic Bather's Towel
    Master Angler ~ Struggles With Ichthyophobia
    Ichthyophobia ~ Secretely Dreams of Becoming a Master Angler
    Lol Brb

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  • Tommy_The_Gun
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    Set is good, but you have to play it's "mini-game" in order to have the benefit. Positioning is the key, and you have to actually "move" to the spot where Essence Thief "lands". On average it is something like 5 - 10 meters away in more or less random direction from the enemy you hit. The "essence" also has like 2 - 4 seconds travel time to the spot. So you have to kinda learn how to use it.

    In other words this set has a kinda "kiss-curse" effect build in in it's 5 pcs bonus. The tooltip does not mention it, so you may assume that the:

    "When you deal damage with a Light Attack or Heavy Attack, you draw essence from an enemy that pools near them for 5s."


    "near them" being very close (like a splatter of blood on the floor), but you actually have to move to the "spot" on the ground where essence lands to heal/get stamina/dmg boost.

    The other downside vs having stamina recovery is if you get stunned when low on stamina - you can not break free.
  • Stx
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    Honestly I dont want this set nerfed so please try not to talk about it.

    But yes it's an amazing set for sustain and damage too. You do have to strafe to pick up the essences but the visual for them is so huge they are hard to miss and it's really not that bad.
  • YandereGirlfriend
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    This set is nice but, as others have said, it mainly shines in small-scale PvP.

    You certainly can use it for PvE, but you have to go in knowing that it's an eccentric off-meta set and to be okay with that.

    Primarily, it suffers from all the same problems that all "Do X% more damage" buffs do, namely, that you aren't getting that full 10% since they're handled multiplicatively rather than additively.

    That is why Crit-based sets shine (and why using Essence Thief over Advancing Yokeda is not wise for your DPS), because they give their true additive value in bonus damage whenever you Crit.
  • Rexy18
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    It's a good set outside of prime time, otherwise you aren't able to pick it up half the time in the lag
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    I havent touched it in years. If you still have to move around to actually collect the essence, the set is simply not worth the effort it takes to farm.
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