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Lets talk about loot discrimination i.e. how rewarding only the top12 of DPS is ruining the fun
Ek1
✭✭✭
So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.
Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.
Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.
Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.
Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.
As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.
Edited by Ek1 on March 10, 2020 2:57AM Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.
Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.
Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.
Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.
As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.
Ek1@EU@PC.
24
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ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dps spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
Edited by ZonasArch on March 10, 2020 4:53AM37 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Eh.... I just don't worry about it. I really don't have much interest in the "glom" that happens on bosses. I don't even bother with dolmens.
I'll get what I get (double XP is really the only thing I care about) as my girls that need XP do the quests. Some people have way too much time for conspiracy theories.... says the queen of same....1 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭Having only 12 people get loot feels pants. It's clearly not necessary because the dragons in Elsweyr don't work that way.
I don't care if it's about the top 12 dps, or first come first serve, or randomly allocated, it's just not a very good system, particularly during an event where it's supposed to be a jolly time for all. There are plenty of places in the game for flexes, and that's fine, but these kinds of events should be all inclusive.
I really hope they fix it.
14 -
Siohwenoeht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The 12 person loot rule is an anti-gold bot measure. If you look up videos from release, 100s of bots would camp delve bosses and kill upon spawn farming the gold drops.
They avoid this with dragons because of the high health and the low low gold amount that drops."It is a lovely language, but it takes a very long time saying anything in it, because we do not say anything in it, unless it is worth taking a long time to say, and to listen to." - Treebeard17 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »The 12 person loot rule is an anti-gold bot measure. If you look up videos from release, 100s of bots would camp delve bosses and kill upon spawn farming the gold drops.
They avoid this with dragons because of the high health and the low low gold amount that drops.
I take your point but determined gold farmers will find ways of grinding out gold whatever they do, I think?
But with regard to the dragons, they might not drop actual gold, but they do drop expensive trash items with reasonable frequency, and gear ofc, so I'm not sure it's a fool-proof anti-farmer method either, although again, I take your point about the high health. But they could up the health on the zone WB during events too, yes? And they could drop more account bound items instead.
Hope I don't sound arsey and confrontational.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »The 12 person loot rule is an anti-gold bot measure. If you look up videos from release, 100s of bots would camp delve bosses and kill upon spawn farming the gold drops.
They avoid this with dragons because of the high health and the low low gold amount that drops.
I can attest to bots being everywhere during the early days of this game and Zos made sweeping changes to loot as a result.
I remember one delve boss a group of bots were standing in the corner. One was a DK who would chain the boss and pull it to the bots before any player could get damage on it.
Regardless, OP has it wrong about who gets the loot. DPS is less about the gear and more about player skill.5 -
Synaki✭✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dos spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
It doesn't really matter that you can get a drop in crafted set, fact remains only 12 get loot, and if there are 30 players contributing it means 18 of them will get nothing.9 -
ChimpyChumpy✭✭✭I'm sorry I don't understand what this is about. What gear do dragons drop? Are we talking cosmetics?0
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Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont know how true this is for all bosses, I never missed a loot chance during the Murkmire event and I exclusively played my argonian healer doing world boss dailies.
Edit: my main DPS toon can barely break 25k consistently, I assume my healer does waaaaay less.Edited by Bobby_V_Rockit on March 10, 2020 4:18AM4 -
Bradyfjord✭✭✭✭✭I'm a dungeon tank, and I got my tickets any time I wanted. The delve bosses were up often enough. And the overland loot that you get in Murkmire isn't 'top end'. I consider bright throat a decent mage set, but there's better for my purposes (tank dk). That said, if you can run Black Rose Prison then you could have gotten double drops, and I often trade gear for sets I'm interested in. I think you need to consider all the options on the table, not just those heavily camped world bosses.0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Don’t quest or do events spec’d only as a tank or healer for trials or dungeons. Problem solved.2 -
Rave the Histborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭So there is yet another event behind the corner and again we are going to see how rich are going to get richer and poor staying poor, so to speak.
Those that already got the sets, stuff and collectibles are going to get even more of them as they got the gear to be in that top 12 damage dealers thus those that don't have that gear (most likely newer players) are not going to get them. When dead bosses are camped by minimum of horde of the size of ~20 players as in the pic and around double or triple at peak hours while respawn timers are fixed the amount of not-getting-loot players starts to be ridiculous.
Also all tanks and healers can immediately forget any boss loot for the period of events as there is simply no way you can get to that top12 and that is the only sole loot system it seems. That basically kills the whole fun to play without anyone in this MMO if you are tank or a healer. Even if you would have group of 12 nice dudes to do dailys or zone completionist, as soon as there comes that 13th random dude to attack the same boss the only character in that whole horde that is preventing the boss from killing all the DPS dealing characters that have the tankability of a paper bag is getting zero reward. Make it two random dudes and the healer that keeps that frontline alive also gets cut out.
Doing any kind of content with bigger than 12 people hits immediately the 'multiplayer' part of the game in the knee with a sledge hammer. 'Oh, three hours of farming strongboxes/skin boxes and I got once (1) _loot_ as a tank. Wonder what other games there are' -has been my thoughts for quite some time.
Everyone involved in killing should get loot.
If someone contributed less than 50% of the time, then drop his chance to get loot by that same amount. This would simply fix the situation of late joiners that throw in one basic attack.
To address the fact that 50 players killing a boss makes the combat last around 15 to 20 seconds could be done by increasing the bosses stats by 100% for each starting group of 12 players in combat. Meaning that if normal boss has 5M HPs and hits 5k per basic attack has group of 13 players hitting it it would instead have 10M and hit 10k per basic attack. As soon as 25th player joins the fight, it would gain 5M more HPs and hit another 5k harder.
Or maybe something more modern like dynamically scaling stats, multi attacks, immunities or dozen other slutions.
As the way drops are implemented in the game now, it pushes people away from events and discourages to play with lots of players.
No. Events are supposed to be fun things where you have the potential to earn rewards. Now because of a small part of the community they've just turned into an opportunity to *** and complain about everything. If you're a tank or healer in overland then it's your own fault for not getting rewards. Nothing is stopping you from throwing on a dps set or 2 and easily doing enough damage. I'd you already know the combat is going to last 10-20seconds then there's no reason for a tank or healer to even be present.6 -
Arunei✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They really need to do away with the 12 person limit on loot. It wasn't put into place to stop gold sellers alone or anything, it was put into place because people were camping bosses for drops in general and in a lot it cases they were dropping bosses as soon as they spawned, making it next to impossible for questers or people doing dungeons and delves to get any credit for a kill (the bosses were dead before they could get a hit in).
But these days you only get actual loot drops every 5 or so minutes I think it is, so if you kill a boss and then it spawns like a minute later (like for delve bosses that will spawn if someone who hasn't beat them shows up), you only get the gold and experience from it. They could either increase that timer to discourage people camping bosses (and add the gold to the stuff you only get once the timer is up rather than every time you kill a boss) or find some other way to prevent the camping. Restricting who gets drops is not the answer and I'm honestly surprised it's taken the recent Murkmire event for people really be talking about it. People should not be kept from getting loot when most of them are actively taking part in the boss fight and aren't just tossing out the occasional light attack while hiding in a corner or something.Edited by Arunei on March 10, 2020 4:29AMCharacter List [RP and PvE]:Stands-Against-Death: Argonian Magplar Healer - Crafter
Krisiel: Redguard Stamsorc DPS - Literally crazy Werewolf, no like legit insane. She nuts
Kiju Veran: Khajiit Stamblade DPS - Ex-Fighters Guild Suthay who likes to punch things, nicknamed Tinykat
Niralae Elsinal: Altmer Stamsorc DPS - Young Altmer with way too much Magicka
Sarah Lacroix: Breton Magsorc DPS - Fledgling Vampire who drinks too much water
Slondor: Nord Tankblade - TESified verson of Slenderman
Marius Vastino: Imperial <insert role here> - Sarah's apathetic sire who likes to monologue
Delthor Rellenar: Dunmer Magknight DPS - Sarah's ex who's a certified psychopath
Lirawyn Calatare: Altmer Magplar Healer - Traveling performer and bard who's 101% vanilla bean
Gondryn Beldeau: Breton Tankplar - Sarah's Mages Guild mentor and certified badass old person
Gwendolyn Jenelle: Breton Magplar Healer - Friendly healer with a coffee addiction
Soliril Larethian- Altmer Magblade DPS - Blind alchemist who uses animals to see and brews plagues in his spare time
Tevril Rallenar: Dunmer Stamcro DPS - Delthor's "special" younger brother who raises small animals as friends
Celeroth Calatare: Bosmer <insert role here> - Shapeshifting Bosmer with enough sass to fill Valenwood
PC - NA - EP - CP1000+
Avid RPer. Hit me up in-game @Ras_Lei if you're interested in getting together for some arr-pee shenanigans!6 -
Magenpie✭✭✭✭✭ChimpyChumpy wrote: »I'm sorry I don't understand what this is about. What gear do dragons drop? Are we talking cosmetics?
No no, no cosmetics - dragons drop Elsweyr overland set gear, which you can sell for gold or trade, they drop trash and they can drop motifs occasionally (if I remember correctly.) I was just pointing out that the loot from dragons has a fair gold worth, although you need a big ol' group to kill them.
0 -
Ryath_Waylander✭✭✭✭✭
✭I feel for you OP but it really isn't as impossible as you think it is. I have a healer and if I feel like chasing for the bosses loot, I just put on Mother's sorrow and Torugs pact, use jabs elemental drain and blockade and it's usually enough. In primetime when you can barely see the boss, I don"t bother with the lightshow anyway. If you want to improve your chances then drop an ultimate too.
If you're upset about missing out on Murkmire strongboxes... don't be. I didn't get one extra box from boss loot. Just the usual crappy green loot, I kid you not. By the second week I just hung around, dropped 1 aoe and moved along. Total waste of effort and atrocious drop rates.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dos spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
It doesn't really matter that you can get a drop in crafted set, fact remains only 12 get loot, and if there are 30 players contributing it means 18 of them will get nothing.
Not disputing that, and not saying it's not annoying, i'm saying it's surprisingly easy and simple and cheap to put yourself on a damage range to get to top 12 because people prefer to give up instead of improve. I even went ahead and pretty much gave the candy away, instead of just saying "but getting better is easy". I'm not gonna unwrap the candy, but it's there... improve, get yourself on top 12 and BAM, no more issues for you. Sounds very selfish, because it is, but let's face it... this is public forum, anyone can read this and go ahead and get better, and nobody does, nobody has and nobody will, and that's why, for that one guy that does, he'll be successful.
Also, as a small addendum, I'm NOT a top dps player at all! Good enough to do some vet DLC and that's it. Not anything otherworldly at all.3 -
SpiderKnight✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is no top 12 dps rule, all you need is 3% damage, a healer can get that. I'm pretty sure this was an official response from Zos, can't find the link though.5 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Siohwenoeht wrote: »The 12 person loot rule is an anti-gold bot measure. If you look up videos from release, 100s of bots would camp delve bosses and kill upon spawn farming the gold drops.
They avoid this with dragons because of the high health and the low low gold amount that drops.
So let the bots be and screw real players out of their loot. Brilliant.3 -
tului78✭✭It should honestly be top % of damage dealers or 12, whichever is greater and anyone that takes a certain amount of damage or taunts the boss X number of times or heals X amount.
Wouldn't mind making it so ESO+ didn't follow that rule at all. Chinese farmers don't usually pay for plus do they?
2 -
Smitch_59✭✭✭✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dos spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
It doesn't really matter that you can get a drop in crafted set, fact remains only 12 get loot, and if there are 30 players contributing it means 18 of them will get nothing.
Not disputing that, and not saying it's not annoying, i'm saying it's surprisingly easy and simple and cheap to put yourself on a damage range to get to top 12 because people prefer to give up instead of improve. I even went ahead and pretty much gave the candy away, instead of just saying "but getting better is easy". I'm not gonna unwrap the candy, but it's there... improve, get yourself on top 12 and BAM, no more issues for you. Sounds very selfish, because it is, but let's face it... this is public forum, anyone can read this and go ahead and get better, and nobody does, nobody has and nobody will, and that's why, for that one guy that does, he'll be successful.
Also, as a small addendum, I'm NOT a top dps player at all! Good enough to do some vet DLC and that's it. Not anything otherworldly at all.
Getting good really doesn't solve the overall problem, though. That is, if only 12 of 30 players get loot, there will always be 18 disappointed players who get nothing. So if I improve my DPS and get into the top 12, that's great for me, but there will still be the 18 others who get nothing. So you are right, it does sound very selfish.
I'm a mediocre player in my 60s with a variety of health issues. I'll never be top tier, and I can live with that. During events when there's a big crowd fighting a boss, I know there's a good chance I may not get loot. I usually do get loot, but it's extremely annoying when I don't. The current system of distributing loot certainly doesn't encourage me to participate in events.By Azura, by Azura, by Azura!4 -
Kombinator✭✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dps spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
He has a point with healers, and tanks on the other hand. A healer can deal some damage at the cost of the healing capabilities, but tanks are in the near damn zero. And by tank i mean the guy who is tanking the boss. Not the guy with the tank title, and damage gear.0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dos spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
It doesn't really matter that you can get a drop in crafted set, fact remains only 12 get loot, and if there are 30 players contributing it means 18 of them will get nothing.
Not disputing that, and not saying it's not annoying, i'm saying it's surprisingly easy and simple and cheap to put yourself on a damage range to get to top 12 because people prefer to give up instead of improve. I even went ahead and pretty much gave the candy away, instead of just saying "but getting better is easy". I'm not gonna unwrap the candy, but it's there... improve, get yourself on top 12 and BAM, no more issues for you. Sounds very selfish, because it is, but let's face it... this is public forum, anyone can read this and go ahead and get better, and nobody does, nobody has and nobody will, and that's why, for that one guy that does, he'll be successful.
Also, as a small addendum, I'm NOT a top dps player at all! Good enough to do some vet DLC and that's it. Not anything otherworldly at all.
Getting good really doesn't solve the overall problem, though. That is, if only 12 of 30 players get loot, there will always be 18 disappointed players who get nothing. So if I improve my DPS and get into the top 12, that's great for me, but there will still be the 18 others who get nothing. So you are right, it does sound very selfish.
I'm a mediocre player in my 60s with a variety of health issues. I'll never be top tier, and I can live with that. During events when there's a big crowd fighting a boss, I know there's a good chance I may not get loot. I usually do get loot, but it's extremely annoying when I don't. The current system of distributing loot certainly doesn't encourage me to participate in events.
My underlying point is that when everyone gets better and simply spamming good skill with good gear won't work for top12, then I'll join the "c'mon ZOS, what gives?" chorus. Until then, while most people don't even try, just complain, I will keep trying to convince them to get ahead by self improving in cheap, fast and easy ways.
And it's not that it sounds selfish, it *is* selfish. For this matter specifically, I believe that a selfish approach is the first step. Improve yourself first and see how it goes. Save on complaining, spend on moving up. When that's not enough anymore, because the floor is now high(er), then we work, together in selflessness, in maybe lowering the ceiling.
I'm honestly not ok with putting in effort while someone is just light attacking, and we both get same loot, you see? And I'm not asking for them to do Herculean efforts, just help more. I know loot isn't shared and I'm not really losing anything but a few extra seconds, but if it's super easy to loot, my reward for putting in effort is gonna be devalued by the guy that put no effort and also got an item. And again... If he puts in effort to help get the kill, I don't mind it at all.0 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kombinator wrote: »Frankly, I stopped reading when you said those people have top gear and will get more top gear because they already have top gear that gets them on top 12dps...
I run crafted on most toons, overland on some, dungeon on a few, trials/bis on none. Not a single time during murkmire I had to kill boss twice to get loot. Or any event for that matter. Matter of fact, I straight up went there on a baby toon with blue training gear on lvl 16 and still got loot.
Lack of gear is no excuse at all. Really really at all. What you need is abandon your rotation on said bosses and use your highest dps spam skill. That's called using the correct strat for a fight. If you wanna know why, I can explain on another reply. Any half decent gear can get the job done, and lots of crafted sets are more than just half decent.
(I actually read everything, was just being dramatic)
Also, for tanks and healers, there's a simple route... For events, carry a second set of gear, focused on damage, different foods and pots. Again, it can all be crafted, cheap and easy to get, there's no excuse for not being able to do it. With a simple change of gear, no respecs, my Necro tank can go to Stam Necro and jump from 5k dps tô about 20k, which isn't a lot, of course not, but definitely enough for top 12. He runs a simple hundings+nma on that secondary set. But it could be hundings with dragonguard, or the new and improved ashen grip, or night mother gaze, or Morkuldin... See my point?
He has a point with healers, and tanks on the other hand. A healer can deal some damage at the cost of the healing capabilities, but tanks are in the near damn zero. And by tank i mean the guy who is tanking the boss. Not the guy with the tank title, and damage gear.
But they need to realize that tanks are wholly unnecessary when there are that many people on the world boss and adapt accordingly.6 -
Weesacs✭✭✭✭✭The game needs quick slots for builds so you can quickly change your set-up to another predefined set-up at a push of a button (maybe at the cost of a few gold?). I'm not sure if PC has this ability but on console we don't have that option so we need to take a few mins changing gear, skills, cp etc.
Long story short, yes running around as a tank and healer can be a pain but so is changing set ups all the time.Breton Templar
PS5 - EU - DC4 -
Knightpanther✭✭✭✭✭
✭I really don't understand your argument regarding gear.
This is one of the only MMOs ive ever played where dungeon/raid gear is only marginally better than overland/crafted.
Ive never ran dungeons, burned out on that stuff in EQ/WOW im a soloer, i run crafted (Gold) and farmed stuff from dungeons that are a pretty easy solo these days depending on my build (i tend to switch between stam/mag to keep things interesting).
Sure someone could parse higher than me in groups but overland and in PVP i see no difference at all, its down to knowing your class and experience (hate using the word 'skill').
Regarding events, most of the decent stuff comes from your main loot box which everyone gets at least once a day, the rest is up to the RNG Gods.
Be safe0 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You need to deal 3% of the creature's total HP. You need to be a bit fast if there are a LOT of people around - top 12 dps "rule" doesn't apply to world bosses. Top 12 applies to killing Molag Bal at Barathrum Centrata."Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother | VforVendetta | Grownups Gaming EU | English Elders [PS][EU] 2500 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest | Eternal Champions | Legacy | Tamriel Melting Pot [PS][NA] 2300 CP
- SweetTrolls | Spring Rose | Daggerfall Royal Legion | Tinnitus Delux [PC][EU] 2525 CP
- Bacon Rats | Silverlight Brotherhood | Canis Root Tea Party | Vincula Doloris [PC][NA] 2300 CP
0 -
doomette✭✭✭✭✭
✭The game needs quick slots for builds so you can quickly change your set-up to another predefined set-up at a push of a button (maybe at the cost of a few gold?). I'm not sure if PC has this ability but on console we don't have that option so we need to take a few mins changing gear, skills, cp etc.
Long story short, yes running around as a tank and healer can be a pain but so is changing set ups all the time.
I would give my left pinky toe for build quick slots. I understand PC users have an add-on that functions like this, but us console plebs deserve some love too.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judging by the Imperial City's Molag Bal Simulacrum fight, it's just 12 players who get loot, not necessarily the top 12 DDs. Healers semi-regularly get loot when larger groups do the fight.1 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
healing counts so if people taking damage and get healed, healer is likely to get loot if not they does not.VaranisArano wrote: »Judging by the Imperial City's Molag Bal Simulacrum fight, it's just 12 players who get loot, not necessarily the top 12 DDs. Healers semi-regularly get loot when larger groups do the fight.
i think its dps based as my tanks tended not to get loot.
And yes this is to restrict booting.
Had been better to link reward to quests I think, also the fragment system is stupid.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Umm, I had no idea that a 12 person cap existed... does it?
I thought it was simply based on how much damage an individual does to a boss. So as long as you get a few hits in, your are all good...
Maybe I was wrong, every day is a learning day...0
