Issues with the Warden Class.

Tigerseye · March 2020

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I have made most of the following (cosmetic) suggestions before, on another thread, so sorry to be repetitive.

However, I would add that we ideally need, totally optional, reskins of all the Warden Class skill lines, as well as the pet.

They could come in different nature-based themes.

For example, a Forest theme, a Jungle theme and (to go with Winter's Embrace) a Winter theme.

Currently, the icy type theme of Winter's Embrace kind of clashes with the Vvardenfell/nature theme, of the other two lines.

So, it would be nice to have plant/tree based optional skins of the tank line, instead.

You could choose from the Forest, or Jungle, type skins for that, with barkskin and Protective vines (appropriate to each theme) replacing all the snow and ice.

Alternatively, if you liked the ice theme, you could acquire Winter/Arctic reskins of the other two skill lines, where the animals were replaced by snow and ice type animals (e.g. Arctic foxes, penguins/chub loons, sea lions/horkers, seals and polar bears!) and the plants by either snow and ice covered plants (maybe holly?) and vines (ivy?), or translucent, icy looking plant skins.

Similarly, it would be nice to also have some skins for the other animal abilities in the Animal Companions line, which are all very Vvardenfell currently and also, for the Green balance, which are less obviously so, but still somewhat.

Again, you could choose from Forest, or Jungle, type skins.

For Forest Animal Companions, think of typical European woodland/countryside - you could replace cliff racers with eagles (or some other bird of prey), shalks with ladybugs, fetcherflies with bumble bees and netch with a little hovering bird, like a robin, a green finch, or a blue *** (its genuine name triggers the filter).

For Forest Green Balance, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with European woodland - so, ivy for Living Vines, for example.

For Jungle Animal Companions, you could replace cliff racers with parrots (or some other large, colourful jungle bird), shalks with scarab beetles, fetcherflies with dragonflies and netch with hummingbirds.

For Jungle Green Balance, again, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with jungle type environments - big, colourful tropical flowers and jungle vines, for example.

Then if you added a polar bear and various wolf and senche skins, for the Eternal Guardian, you would have appropriate skins to fit all three themes.

All of this could, presumably, be done purely through skins, without the need to change the basic animation any of the spells.

If you wanted, you could also add a Desert theme (sidewinders, vultures, scorpions, scarab beetles etc.) for all three lines and a desert animal type skin for the bear, like a Jackal.

sionIV · March 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I have made most of the following (cosmetic) suggestions before, on another thread, so sorry to be repetitive.

However, I would add that we ideally need, totally optional, reskins of all the Warden Class skill lines, as well as the pet.

They could come in different nature-based themes.

For example, a Forest theme, a Jungle theme and (to go with Winter's Embrace) a Winter theme.

Currently, the icy type theme of Winter's Embrace kind of clashes with the Vvardenfell/nature theme, of the other two lines.

So, it would be nice to have plant/tree based optional skins of the tank line, instead.

You could choose from the Forest, or Jungle, type skins for that, with barkskin and Protective vines (appropriate to each theme) replacing all the snow and ice.

Alternatively, if you liked the ice theme, you could acquire Winter/Arctic reskins of the other two skill lines, where the animals were replaced by snow and ice type animals (e.g. Arctic foxes, penguins/chub loons, sea lions/horkers, seals and polar bears!) and the plants by either snow and ice covered plants (maybe holly?) and vines (ivy?), or translucent, icy looking plant skins.

Similarly, it would be nice to also have some skins for the other animal abilities in the Animal Companions line, which are all very Vvardenfell currently and also, for the Green balance, which are less obviously so, but still somewhat.

Again, you could choose from Forest, or Jungle, type skins.

For Forest Animal Companions, think of typical European woodland/countryside - you could replace cliff racers with eagles (or some other bird of prey), shalks with ladybugs, fetcherflies with bumble bees and netch with a little hovering bird, like a robin, a green finch, or a blue *** (its genuine name triggers the filter).

For Forest Green Balance, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with European woodland - so, ivy for Living Vines, for example.

For Jungle Animal Companions, you could replace cliff racers with parrots (or some other large, colourful jungle bird), shalks with scarab beetles, fetcherflies with dragonflies and netch with hummingbirds.

For Jungle Green Balance, again, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with jungle type environments - big, colourful tropical flowers and jungle vines, for example.

Then if you added a polar bear and various wolf and senche skins, for the Eternal Guardian, you would have appropriate skins to fit all three themes.

All of this could, presumably, be done purely through skins, without the need to change the basic animation any of the spells.

If you wanted, you could also add a Desert theme (sidewinders, vultures, scorpions, scarab beetles etc.) for all three lines and a desert animal type skin for the bear, like a Jackal.

While I would love for this to happen, I highly doubt that it will. If it would happen, I'm certain that they would put it into the crown store and charge 3000+ crowns for each cosmetic skin.

Runefang · March 2020

sionIV wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I have made most of the following (cosmetic) suggestions before, on another thread, so sorry to be repetitive.

However, I would add that we ideally need, totally optional, reskins of all the Warden Class skill lines, as well as the pet.

They could come in different nature-based themes.

For example, a Forest theme, a Jungle theme and (to go with Winter's Embrace) a Winter theme.

Currently, the icy type theme of Winter's Embrace kind of clashes with the Vvardenfell/nature theme, of the other two lines.

So, it would be nice to have plant/tree based optional skins of the tank line, instead.

You could choose from the Forest, or Jungle, type skins for that, with barkskin and Protective vines (appropriate to each theme) replacing all the snow and ice.

Alternatively, if you liked the ice theme, you could acquire Winter/Arctic reskins of the other two skill lines, where the animals were replaced by snow and ice type animals (e.g. Arctic foxes, penguins/chub loons, sea lions/horkers, seals and polar bears!) and the plants by either snow and ice covered plants (maybe holly?) and vines (ivy?), or translucent, icy looking plant skins.

Similarly, it would be nice to also have some skins for the other animal abilities in the Animal Companions line, which are all very Vvardenfell currently and also, for the Green balance, which are less obviously so, but still somewhat.

Again, you could choose from Forest, or Jungle, type skins.

For Forest Animal Companions, think of typical European woodland/countryside - you could replace cliff racers with eagles (or some other bird of prey), shalks with ladybugs, fetcherflies with bumble bees and netch with a little hovering bird, like a robin, a green finch, or a blue *** (its genuine name triggers the filter).

For Forest Green Balance, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with European woodland - so, ivy for Living Vines, for example.

For Jungle Animal Companions, you could replace cliff racers with parrots (or some other large, colourful jungle bird), shalks with scarab beetles, fetcherflies with dragonflies and netch with hummingbirds.

For Jungle Green Balance, again, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with jungle type environments - big, colourful tropical flowers and jungle vines, for example.

Then if you added a polar bear and various wolf and senche skins, for the Eternal Guardian, you would have appropriate skins to fit all three themes.

All of this could, presumably, be done purely through skins, without the need to change the basic animation any of the spells.

If you wanted, you could also add a Desert theme (sidewinders, vultures, scorpions, scarab beetles etc.) for all three lines and a desert animal type skin for the bear, like a Jackal.

While I would love for this to happen, I highly doubt that it will. If it would happen, I'm certain that they would put it into the crown store and charge 3000+ crowns for each cosmetic skin.

Would it be wrong to be ok with that cost?

But I really just want minor skill improvements over cosmetic changes.

ESO_Nightingale · March 2020

Runefang wrote: »

sionIV wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I have made most of the following (cosmetic) suggestions before, on another thread, so sorry to be repetitive.

However, I would add that we ideally need, totally optional, reskins of all the Warden Class skill lines, as well as the pet.

They could come in different nature-based themes.

For example, a Forest theme, a Jungle theme and (to go with Winter's Embrace) a Winter theme.

Currently, the icy type theme of Winter's Embrace kind of clashes with the Vvardenfell/nature theme, of the other two lines.

So, it would be nice to have plant/tree based optional skins of the tank line, instead.

You could choose from the Forest, or Jungle, type skins for that, with barkskin and Protective vines (appropriate to each theme) replacing all the snow and ice.

Alternatively, if you liked the ice theme, you could acquire Winter/Arctic reskins of the other two skill lines, where the animals were replaced by snow and ice type animals (e.g. Arctic foxes, penguins/chub loons, sea lions/horkers, seals and polar bears!) and the plants by either snow and ice covered plants (maybe holly?) and vines (ivy?), or translucent, icy looking plant skins.

Similarly, it would be nice to also have some skins for the other animal abilities in the Animal Companions line, which are all very Vvardenfell currently and also, for the Green balance, which are less obviously so, but still somewhat.

Again, you could choose from Forest, or Jungle, type skins.

For Forest Animal Companions, think of typical European woodland/countryside - you could replace cliff racers with eagles (or some other bird of prey), shalks with ladybugs, fetcherflies with bumble bees and netch with a little hovering bird, like a robin, a green finch, or a blue *** (its genuine name triggers the filter).

For Forest Green Balance, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with European woodland - so, ivy for Living Vines, for example.

For Jungle Animal Companions, you could replace cliff racers with parrots (or some other large, colourful jungle bird), shalks with scarab beetles, fetcherflies with dragonflies and netch with hummingbirds.

For Jungle Green Balance, again, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with jungle type environments - big, colourful tropical flowers and jungle vines, for example.

Then if you added a polar bear and various wolf and senche skins, for the Eternal Guardian, you would have appropriate skins to fit all three themes.

All of this could, presumably, be done purely through skins, without the need to change the basic animation any of the spells.

If you wanted, you could also add a Desert theme (sidewinders, vultures, scorpions, scarab beetles etc.) for all three lines and a desert animal type skin for the bear, like a Jackal.

While I would love for this to happen, I highly doubt that it will. If it would happen, I'm certain that they would put it into the crown store and charge 3000+ crowns for each cosmetic skin.

Would it be wrong to be ok with that cost?

But I really just want minor skill improvements over cosmetic changes.

I think there needs to be a mix of some big major fixes and lots of minor fixes. and some mostly small cosmetic changes

Tigerseye · March 2020

sionIV wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

I have made most of the following (cosmetic) suggestions before, on another thread, so sorry to be repetitive.

However, I would add that we ideally need, totally optional, reskins of all the Warden Class skill lines, as well as the pet.

They could come in different nature-based themes.

For example, a Forest theme, a Jungle theme and (to go with Winter's Embrace) a Winter theme.

Currently, the icy type theme of Winter's Embrace kind of clashes with the Vvardenfell/nature theme, of the other two lines.

So, it would be nice to have plant/tree based optional skins of the tank line, instead.

You could choose from the Forest, or Jungle, type skins for that, with barkskin and Protective vines (appropriate to each theme) replacing all the snow and ice.

Alternatively, if you liked the ice theme, you could acquire Winter/Arctic reskins of the other two skill lines, where the animals were replaced by snow and ice type animals (e.g. Arctic foxes, penguins/chub loons, sea lions/horkers, seals and polar bears!) and the plants by either snow and ice covered plants (maybe holly?) and vines (ivy?), or translucent, icy looking plant skins.

Similarly, it would be nice to also have some skins for the other animal abilities in the Animal Companions line, which are all very Vvardenfell currently and also, for the Green balance, which are less obviously so, but still somewhat.

Again, you could choose from Forest, or Jungle, type skins.

For Forest Animal Companions, think of typical European woodland/countryside - you could replace cliff racers with eagles (or some other bird of prey), shalks with ladybugs, fetcherflies with bumble bees and netch with a little hovering bird, like a robin, a green finch, or a blue *** (its genuine name triggers the filter).

For Forest Green Balance, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with European woodland - so, ivy for Living Vines, for example.

For Jungle Animal Companions, you could replace cliff racers with parrots (or some other large, colourful jungle bird), shalks with scarab beetles, fetcherflies with dragonflies and netch with hummingbirds.

For Jungle Green Balance, again, you would just use fungi, plants, trees and vines more commonly associated with jungle type environments - big, colourful tropical flowers and jungle vines, for example.

Then if you added a polar bear and various wolf and senche skins, for the Eternal Guardian, you would have appropriate skins to fit all three themes.

All of this could, presumably, be done purely through skins, without the need to change the basic animation any of the spells.

If you wanted, you could also add a Desert theme (sidewinders, vultures, scorpions, scarab beetles etc.) for all three lines and a desert animal type skin for the bear, like a Jackal.

While I would love for this to happen, I highly doubt that it will. If it would happen, I'm certain that they would put it into the crown store and charge 3000+ crowns for each cosmetic skin.

Well, I would hope they would charge a more reasonable price than that, for a set of skins for the entire skill line, in a certain theme, but I understand why you would be concerned that they wouldn't.

I think they should bear in mind that it should be more about micro (not macro) transactions, if it's about transactions at all and that adding fun stuff like this would be a relatively easy way to make the class (and the entire game, to an extent) more popular than it currently is.

Tigerseye · March 2020

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Strictly referring to the PvP prowess of the class.

Netch has a free purge on cast, due to this it should come with a cost. Health or mag.

The inaccuracy of this has been playing on my mind, a little, so I thought I would just answer.

Netch only has a purge of one random negative effect; it does not have a purge of anything you might be afflicted with.

So, you can often cast it two, or even three, times and not get rid of the specific negative effect you need to get rid of.

For example, if you are doing dragons and have the debuff, sometimes it clears it first time and sometimes (quite often) it doesn't

Also, its primary raison d'etre is to refund some Stamina/Magicka.

So, charging you your primary stat, or even health, to activate it, would be totally counterproductive.

If it charged you a tiny bit of your off-stat (so, Magicka if you're Stamina, or vice versa), that would probably be OK - but, mainly only because most people aren't using their off-stat, anyway.

So, not really sure there is much point in doing that?

Any greater cost, even of the off-stat, would again be counterproductive.

As we need pretty much permanent access to the Netch, for primary stat regen, these days.

xWarbrain · March 2020

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I have been a Warden main since they came out, i have Max crafting, Grand overlord - most trials completed, Vet HM dungeons etc etc.
I have a good understanding of this class and would like to highlight some issues that are bugging me most.

Here are a few of the most annoying things i find about playing a Warden.

Bear - Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

Dive - To fast to line up for timed burst, (what it was made for) to slow for a spam-able. the new change to off-balance has changed its stun usability.

Swarm; Fetcher infection morph - the 50% extra damage on the second cast is impossible to utilise effectively, especially in pvp.

Netch, - has hidden cast time super ugly and annoying.

Secluded Grove ( Tree Ulti) - Has a very long hidden cast time on a skill that is marked as instant cast, Always interrupted and rarely goes off especailly during a BG. Any warden running a resto staff would chose resto ulti over this any day as that skill actually fires when you press it.

Healing Seed - Another skill with a cast time delay makes this skill awkward and clunky and interruptable

Living Vines - Great skill but always goes to someone you don't want it to.

Lotus Flower; Lotus Blossom magica morph - has no visual effects but the stam version makes your weapons glow awesome blue.

Natures Grasp - Super frustrating skill, Can be line of sited during its cast towards an ally, Rubber banding back to where you started from after the cast, Heals rarely going off.
( The animations of this are now used for the grappling hook )

Arctic Wind; Arctic Blast morph - A bizarre expensive skill that CCs, its dodge-able but after the enemy has been hit 3 times they are stunned... Serving only to grant your opponent CC immunity for when you are ready with your burst.

The Warden class feels very unpolished and the many changes its had have very much effected my relationship with it. i struggle to enjoy it as i find it clunky and irritating, i miss the old burst potential we had with the Shalks Cliffracer Forcepulse - The hidden cast times, interruptable instant cast skills and really long bear summon time needs to be addressed.

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain, but with no other options left now this is a problem. ( just in perspective can you imagine if they took the DK's CC's off fossilise, petrify, talons etc, or made it so Templar javelin wont CC, or made Nightblades fear only give off-balance.. this is what we're dealing with )

I really hope to see this class get some TLC and sort out this disassociation that many wardens are feeling.

We also need the pet skins we were teased when the Grey Slate Bear Skin was introduced, hopefully pet skins will also include a new type of netch or different pet altogether as this would help greatly in my enjoyment of the class.

I disagree with almost everything here. I don't like seeing anyone talk about wardens on the forums because I've seen what that leads to haha.

Bear - The bear is good for two things: DPS tests and vMA. In those situations it is incredibly strong. It does get stuck on barely noticeable obstacles though, but moving a bit further away usually resets him.

Dive - Adds 2% damage to the bar. Higher single target damage than Force Pulse & Clench, probably on par with or a bit stronger than Ele Weapon. It's a bird, not a lightning bolt. It should have a bit of a travel time. The bird can burst perfectly with other skills. I've never understood the problem people have with this skill. You don't need to wait for it to hit the target, throw the bird and move on.

Netch - I don't know how anyone can complain about this skill. It's the staple of being a Warden. It's free.

Fetcher Infection - Impossible to utilize in PvP? Nah, its very possible to utilize effectively in PvP, not to mention both casts provide Minor Vulnerability. This skill is too strong not to use.

Secluded Grove - Incredibly strong heal that has an extremely high uptime. It costs nothing AND has a morph that gives ult back. No need to use that one though, go for the Thicket and keep pushing forward. Its an "Oh, ****" button. The only drawback from slotting this Ult if you're a DPS is that you can't really afford to drop your DPS by using this skill. But there's nothing wrong with the skill itself.

Healing Seed - Its a ground AoE, its not a cast time. It has the same "cast time" as Liquid Lightning, Winter's Revenge or Healing Springs. Huge synergy for group, strong HoT or access to Major Defile. Nothing wrong with this skill.

Living Vines - Any Warden can get away with this being their only heal if they wanted to. Face away from everyone if you're trying to cast it on yourself.

Lotus Flower - I didn't think about the visual effect, I always look at my buffs, not my character for stuff like that. I rarely use this skill, I like Inner Light (free) and never find the heals from this to be worth it.

Nature's Grasp - Yeah, **** this skill.

Arctic Blast - I'm clearly in the minority here, but I love this skill. The way it is. It works perfectly for me. It's as reliable of a stun as any other stun, meaning it stuns on CC cooldown. With easy access to 100% uptime on Major Expedition, it's very easy to stun the enemy, often multiple enemies. This skill shines in outnumbered situations.

The only skills I really have an issue with are Natures Grasp and to a lesser degree Frozen Device. Frozen Device is actually pretty strong, I just can't afford to slot it due to bar space and what I'd have to give up. I'd rather only have 1 active portal but it set up quicker, like throwing Daedric Tomb out. But I understand it's more of a tanking skill. Still fun to throw into ball groups and watch them panic trying to get back inside the heals.

Tigerseye · March 2020

xWarbrain wrote: »

Netch - I don't know how anyone can complain about this skill. It's the staple of being a Warden. It's free.

I think he's mainly just complaining about the way it looks?

Which could be easily remedied with a skin, for those who don't like it, or who would just like alternative options.

I'm actually quite fond of it, but other options would be good, too.

In terms of the "hidden cast time" complaint, it's more that it has an incongruously long summon animation (if you let it play out), even though, in reality, it is more-or-less instant to cast.

However, it is perfectly possible to cancel this animation by casting any other attack/skill, immediately after hitting the key/button that summons the Netch, so it's not really a significant issue, in my opinion.

SkysOutThizeOut · March 2020

Don’t change warden. I love it’s entire kit. The only changes I want are bear and a poison version of northern storm. Maybe look at smoothing out some skills hidden delays. Arctic blast is lowkey one of the best stuns in the game right now if you play melee: it’s defensive and stops killing blows when you get stunned; it has a massive heal and allows a stamden to maximize rss use; it doesn’t have a cap on how many it stuns; it can maim; it’s unblockable; you can time sub assault, dizzy, ultimate, execute with it.

The largest issues in this game is the tankyness of everyone. It’s too hard to do damage. In cp endless fights are a common occurrence. And in no cp it’s becoming a little more common. They need to fix damage mitigation/healing buff/debuffs and health.

Cerotonin · March 2020

I can’t believe you just called the netch ugly.

Kahnak · March 2020

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I have been a Warden main since they came out, i have Max crafting, Grand overlord - most trials completed, Vet HM dungeons etc etc.
I have a good understanding of this class and would like to highlight some issues that are bugging me most.

Here are a few of the most annoying things i find about playing a Warden.

Bear - Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

Dive - To fast to line up for timed burst, (what it was made for) to slow for a spam-able. the new change to off-balance has changed its stun usability.

Swarm; Fetcher infection morph - the 50% extra damage on the second cast is impossible to utilise effectively, especially in pvp.

Netch, - has hidden cast time super ugly and annoying.

Secluded Grove ( Tree Ulti) - Has a very long hidden cast time on a skill that is marked as instant cast, Always interrupted and rarely goes off especailly during a BG. Any warden running a resto staff would chose resto ulti over this any day as that skill actually fires when you press it.

Healing Seed - Another skill with a cast time delay makes this skill awkward and clunky and interruptable

Living Vines - Great skill but always goes to someone you don't want it to.

Lotus Flower; Lotus Blossom magica morph - has no visual effects but the stam version makes your weapons glow awesome blue.

Natures Grasp - Super frustrating skill, Can be line of sited during its cast towards an ally, Rubber banding back to where you started from after the cast, Heals rarely going off.
( The animations of this are now used for the grappling hook )

Arctic Wind; Arctic Blast morph - A bizarre expensive skill that CCs, its dodge-able but after the enemy has been hit 3 times they are stunned... Serving only to grant your opponent CC immunity for when you are ready with your burst.

The Warden class feels very unpolished and the many changes its had have very much effected my relationship with it. i struggle to enjoy it as i find it clunky and irritating, i miss the old burst potential we had with the Shalks Cliffracer Forcepulse - The hidden cast times, interruptable instant cast skills and really long bear summon time needs to be addressed.

The Elephant in the room is the Class CC, lots of classes have nerfs for sure, but the warden is the only one that has had its on demand CC removed, weather it was overpowered or not is irrelevant, the fact that the class could do something that it now can not is the issue, we got by with flame touch for a while then moved onto vamp drain, but with no other options left now this is a problem. ( just in perspective can you imagine if they took the DK's CC's off fossilise, petrify, talons etc, or made it so Templar javelin wont CC, or made Nightblades fear only give off-balance.. this is what we're dealing with )

I really hope to see this class get some TLC and sort out this disassociation that many wardens are feeling.

We also need the pet skins we were teased when the Grey Slate Bear Skin was introduced, hopefully pet skins will also include a new type of netch or different pet altogether as this would help greatly in my enjoyment of the class.

Bear- Ai issues - Bear not being present in fights, wanders off and gets stuck on things, dreadful for pvp due to its targeting and pathing. far to long summon time, being charged ulti and it doesn't hit the target. - it wont hit any dragon since Elsweyr including the ones in Sun-Spire.

This is probably my biggest issue with the Warden, but I think I lot of people's frustration stems from not understanding how to direct their pets. I'm not alleging that all issues with the Warden pet are user error, but if you're having an issue with your pet not attacking the correct target, that is something that is remedied very easily by using pet commands. If you're summoning your bear in combat, you're probably doing it wrong. If you're being charged ulti and it's not hitting your intended target, it's likely that you have not heavy attacked or used a pet command to attack that target and it's hitting it's own target. These are issues Pet Sorcs have been grappling with forever.

Dive - To fast to line up for timed burst, (what it was made for) to slow for a spam-able. the new change to off-balance has changed its stun usability.

This ability is not too slow for a spammable. If it were, endgame Warden DPS wouldn't be using it on both Stam and Magicka. This is besides the fact that even Magicka DPS generally stay in melee range because they are using Zaan. I'd also be really interested to see where you've dug up the purpose of Dive from the developer's perspective. I'm inclined to think that you probably haven't and that is just speculation.

Swarm; Fetcher infection morph - the 50% extra damage on the second cast is impossible to utilise effectively, especially in pvp.

I'd agree that the Magicka morph is pretty useless, but it's not enough to be a pain point for me. Honestly, any issue I have with this morph is largely offset by the fact that it now applies Minor Vulnerability and is one of the easiest ways to provide that debuff in a trial. The change to that ability basically resulted in an additional support set for healers since IA is more inefficient to use.

Secluded Grove ( Tree Ulti) - Has a very long hidden cast time on a skill that is marked as instant cast, Always interrupted and rarely goes off especailly during a BG. Any warden running a resto staff would chose resto ulti over this any day as that skill actually fires when you press it.

The 'hidden cast time' here is not a hidden cast time - it is an animation and can easily be mitigated by simply casting another ability or light/heavy attacking to cancel the animation. A Resto Ultimate is inferior to this ability in any content with the exception of small scale PvP, unless you are using it as a personal burst heal. The Resto Ultimate is too expensive for what it provides, in my estimation, and is unreliable if you are attempting to heal a specific target.

Healing Seed - Another skill with a cast time delay makes this skill awkward and clunky and interruptable

Again, this is an instant ability with a long animation and is not the same as a cast time. An instant ability cannot be interrupted. It provides a critical synergy and is one of the best AOE heals in the game, currently.

Living Vines- Great skill but always goes to someone you don't want it to.

So does the Resto Ultimate, but that didn't keep you from recommending it over a superior skill. Not sure why this is on your list if it's a great skill by your own admission.

Lotus Flower; Lotus Blossom magica morph - has no visual effects but the stam version makes your weapons glow awesome blue.

What is annoying about that?

Natures Grasp - Super frustrating skill, Can be line of sited during its cast towards an ally, Rubber banding back to where you started from after the cast, Heals rarely going off.

Any single target skill can be a victim of LOS. Are you implying that this ability should be able to be used through walls? This is one of the strongest single target heals in the game if you know how to use it and there are several game modes in BG's where it's utility really shines. My only issue with this ability is that both of the morphs pull you to the target and you can't pull an allied target to you, instead.

Arctic Wind; Arctic Blast morph - A bizarre expensive skill that CCs, its dodge-able but after the enemy has been hit 3 times they are stunned... Serving only to grant your opponent CC immunity for when you are ready with your burst.

I do understand the complaints with this ability in terms of it's function as the classes' CC. As a self-heal for Warden tanks, it is actually pretty strong, but I can see how it may be frustrating to use when trying to line up a burst in PvP.

I really hope to see this class get some TLC and sort out this disassociation that many wardens are feeling.

I'm not convinced that "many Wardens" share your feelings, since most of them aren't having issues performing in PvP and several of your issues seem to be a L2P problem.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil · March 2020

I hate Natures Grasp... I like the concept, but it doesn't perform well, its too situational, plus I also just hate the visuals... I would rather Green Balance have at least ONE offensive skill to be on par with other offensive classes. I would nominate Natures Grasp as tribute!

Replace it with... (I kinda thought about these numbers, but clearly not that much because I threw in some X values lol)

Natures Revenge: Summon a magical tree that matures after 1 second. Once mature, roots burst from the ground dealing X magic dmg to all enemies within 7 meters (aim/trigger like healing seed/secluded grove).

Morph 1...
Thorny Revenge: (converts into a Stamina ability) Summon a poisonous tree that matures after 7 seconds. While it grows, poisonous flowers release pollen, dealing X poison dmg every 1 second to all nearby enemies. Once mature, thorny roots burst from the ground dealing X physical dmg to all enemies within 7 meters. Re-trigger after 1 second (or allies can use synergy, Patch of Thorns) to activate thorny roots.

Morph 2...
Natures Reprisal: Summon an ethereal tree that matures after 7 seconds. While it grows, life force is sapped from nearby enemies, restoring X Magicka/Stamina (whichever resource is lower) for each enemy within range every 1 second. Once mature, ethereal thorns burst from the ground dealing X magic dmg to all enemies within 7 meters. Re-trigger after 1 second to activate ethereal roots (no synergy).

... something like that. Or literally anything else that involves growing a magical tree lol.

Starlight_Knight · March 2020

Thankyou to everyone whos commented on this post; a few people have misunderstood what point i was trying to make with the original post and turned it into a discussion about balance.
My main issue is the general feel of the class, has many clunky skills and long animations. Yes Zos have taken away a lot from the class in regards to balance but the clunkyness worked better then because at lease you knew you would get a stun or timed burst etc... anyway;...

Referring to my statement about cast times, the abilities marked instant cast are not actually instant cast. The worst offender is the tree ulti; This skill cant be weapon swapped cancelled seamlessly its similar in fact to the barrage of arrows but worse - in the sense that you need to wait for the animation to start before you can swap cancel it at the right time..
However swap cancelling it in PVP is often un-plausible as you might need to stay on your defensive bar, or whatever the reason this skill can be interrupted and its marked as instant cast.
Any other argument about balance is irrelevant as that isn't the same subject. If tree ulti or resto ulti is better doesn't matter, the point i was making is one fires reliably and the other dose not.

My point i was making about fetcher infection being impossible to use the 50% extra was in a long duration pvp fight, where you are shuffling buffs and damage, your opponent is dodging and a generally high octane situation i often find myself in. by the time you've landed the 2nd or 3rd you've no idea if you're on the 50% extra one or not. there is no indication what you have landed.

I will stand by my point that cliff racer is to slow to a spam-able in pvp, force pulse has so much more of a rewarding feel and cliff-racer looks like when you hit 2x speed on a youtube video, such a lazy change that as i said before, only took away burst opportunity.

NeillMcAttack · March 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Strictly referring to the PvP prowess of the class.

Netch has a free purge on cast, due to this it should come with a cost. Health or mag.

Also, its primary raison d'etre is to refund some Stamina/Magicka.

So, charging you your primary stat, or even health, to activate it, would be totally counterproductive.

If it charged you a tiny bit of your off-stat (so, Magicka if you're Stamina, or vice versa), that would probably be OK - but, mainly only because most people aren't using their off-stat, anyway.

So, not really sure there is much point in doing that?

Any greater cost, even of the off-stat, would again be counterproductive.

Like other classes? Other class have to pay a lot of their off stat (sorcs), or a small amount of the primary stat (nightblade, templar), for the same kind of return. All other classes also have to pay for access to their major brutality or sorcery. And you are claiming that "only" one purge on cast, and a passive purge every 5 seconds doesn't warrant a skill cost?
You could drop and one of the 3, major buff, purge, resource return, and it would still do more for less than similar skills from other classes or skill lines.

xWarbrain · March 2020

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

Thankyou to everyone whos commented on this post; a few people have misunderstood what point i was trying to make with the original post and turned it into a discussion about balance.
My main issue is the general feel of the class, has many clunky skills and long animations. Yes Zos have taken away a lot from the class in regards to balance but the clunkyness worked better then because at lease you knew you would get a stun or timed burst etc... anyway;...

Referring to my statement about cast times, the abilities marked instant cast are not actually instant cast. The worst offender is the tree ulti; This skill cant be weapon swapped cancelled seamlessly its similar in fact to the barrage of arrows but worse - in the sense that you need to wait for the animation to start before you can swap cancel it at the right time..
However swap cancelling it in PVP is often un-plausible as you might need to stay on your defensive bar, or whatever the reason this skill can be interrupted and its marked as instant cast.
Any other argument about balance is irrelevant as that isn't the same subject. If tree ulti or resto ulti is better doesn't matter, the point i was making is one fires reliably and the other dose not.

My point i was making about fetcher infection being impossible to use the 50% extra was in a long duration pvp fight, where you are shuffling buffs and damage, your opponent is dodging and a generally high octane situation i often find myself in. by the time you've landed the 2nd or 3rd you've no idea if you're on the 50% extra one or not. there is no indication what you have landed.

I will stand by my point that cliff racer is to slow to a spam-able in pvp, force pulse has so much more of a rewarding feel and cliff-racer looks like when you hit 2x speed on a youtube video, such a lazy change that as i said before, only took away burst opportunity.

Fair enough - but just to point out about Fetcher casts - there's an icon for this if you turn on your buffs. When its on your buff bar, the next cast will be the 50% increase.