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Cloak , Invisibility and Nightblades in PvP

TheUndeadAmulet
TheUndeadAmulet
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As it stands currently, Cloak is extremely inconsistent in its effectiveness in PvP. This is mainly due to the on/off nature of the invisibility it grants. When you are engaged in a fight with another player, your cloak will either be completely useless or extremely overpowered. If the opposing player has an ability/item and the skill to consistently take you out of cloak, you effectively have a dead ability on your bar. Due to the current weakness of nightblades in PvP in general, this means that they will most likely die. the nightblade will be unable to escape from the engagement and their class is too weak to be able to compete with another player with equal skill on a different class. But, if the opposing player is unable to take you out of cloak consistently, the nightblade then has full control of the pace of the fight. In previous patches, when nightblades were much stronger, this meant that they would usually defeat the opposing player if they played well. Currently however, nightblades lack the damage output that they need to defeat competent opponents, usually having to build fully for damage, forsaking defense, just so they can actually score eliminations. Both nightblade variants are affected by this.

In previous patches, in response to good nightblades being able to both nuke people and easily escape from a lot of engagements, ZOS decided to target every tool that nightblades had except cloak. Death stroke used to have a very cheap cost of 50 ultimate. Incapacitating strike had a stun at 50 ult as well. Soul harvest was used. When people started complaning about the stun that incap brought, ZOS nerfed both incap and soul harvest, bringing the cost up to 70 ult. When people kept complaining about incap, they nerfed it further, making it so it stunned only at 120 ult. When people complained even more, they replaced the stun with a comparatively much more useless silence. Then Death stroke and its morphs got a cast time because ZOS. Grim focus and its morphs used to provide minor beserk. They don't anymore. Surprise attack used to apply major fracture. Now it reduces physical resistance by 5%, which is comparatively much worse in a solo situation. Mass hysteria used to apply minor maim to feared targets. Not anymore. Cripple and its morphs used to grant Major expedition. Not anymore. All of these nerfs completely ignored that the main factor in Nightblade being basically in a lot of situations was cloak. These aren't even all the nerfs, these are just the ones I can think of right now. Keep in mind that Magblade wasn't really complained about and they still received nerfs just because they shared the same core skills as stamblade. Nightblade as a whole is a shadow (haha) of its former self.

So what now? Well, because ZOS has not shown much competency in being able to balance appropriately, I thought I might as well provide some ideas on reworking cloak so that it was actually balanced, instead of being this weird skill that is either overpowered or useless. The only way to do this unfortunately is to mess with invisibility and how it functions as a mechanic.

List of Changes for invisibility:
  • Remove reveal affects entirely from the game, or make them much more rare and costly. This is one of the main culprits why invisibility is so unbalanced. Using one skill to counter another skills seems alright in theory, but in practice this collapses because these reveal abilities have other affects attached to them, meaning the invisibility user is immediately disadvantaged. This is even worse in 1vX scenario's. If one player reveals a nightblade, every player can see them.
  • AoE abilities that previously removed invisibility now longer do not. They still do damage and apply their effects however.
  • Invisible players now take more damage from AoE abilities. This damage taken increase should be around 20% to counteract the effects of major evasion. This means that spamming AoE abilities in the general area of a cloaked player can still be used to finish off nightblades at low health.
  • Using any ability in invisibility does not break invisibility. The only thing that breaks invisibility is directly affecting another player with a new ability, whether it be damaging/debuffing an enemy or buffing/healing an ally. Your own Dots or Hots that were applied before cloak was used will not break cloak.

This would be a big buff to invisibility as it is now more consistent and useful. To counteract this, these changes to cloak should be made:
  • Double the cost of cloak, but also double the duration. Now you don't have to spam cloak as much.
  • When Cloak is used, apply a stacking debuff to the player that increases its cost by 50% for the next 12 seconds.

As usual these numbers can be changed around. The idea behind these changes is that cloak is more reliable for all players. For the nightblade, they can reliably use cloak to engage in a fight, disengage from a fight, or gain a reprieve from pressure. But the cost increases to cloak are made to ensure that cloak needs to be used in a smart manner. As a stamblade, you will only be able to use cloak once or twice a fight, and never very close to one another. If you use cloak to engage in a fight and suddenly find yourself overwhelmed, cloak will not be available for an easy escape. As a magblade, you will able to use cloak more often, but it will definitely eat into your magicka if you attempt to use it too much.

If these changes were to made, nightblade would need some buffs to really emphasize them being quick and able to pack a punch, but vulnerable if caught off guard.

Suggestions and criticism are welcome.
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  • pokrakus
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    NB is balanced now, no longer broken OP. I see really good NBs in BGs having high kill ratio. Class is no longer noob friendly if u play glass canon but in hands of skilled player still deadly.
    Your vision of cloak is for escape use only thought, would make NB almost nonkillable. Why don't remove crit bonus from it then?:)
    Really NB is in good balance ATM. Ofc ppl who played OP version of it now complain that they can't insta kill ppl, but you know it's balance.
    "but vulnerable if caught off guard." well they can wear heavy armour too have major evasion and mixed with cloak be tanky as hell and with pre-nerfed skills deadly.... I know I played NB.
    Edited by pokrakus on March 5, 2020 10:33AM
  • martinhpb16_ESO
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    pokrakus wrote: »
    Really NB is in good balance ATM. Ofc ppl who played OP version of it now complain that they can't insta kill ppl, but you know it's balance.

    You say that in the hands of a skilled player it NB is deadly. What is the threshold to skilled? Top 5% / 10% / 20% of players?

    If it is only effective as a class for "skilled" players than that is not balanced.

    A lot of NBs like to pvp solo which for the average player is becoming unviable compared to other classes.

    To say that a minority of "skilled" players can still play NB effectively therefore NB must be in a good place is not a demonstration of balance.

    The class needs a serious rethink.
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  • LuxiasCaelum13
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    I agree with some of your points here, but honestly i don't feel like overhauling how invisibility works would fix the current state of NBs, instead, everything would be much better if they just give back some of their tools.

    -Give back major fracture to Surprise attack, but keep it locked behind the current flank mechanic. That would make NBs way more efficient at dealing damage while retaining the "silent assasin" role that NBs are supposed to fill, as well as minor berserk with relentless focus and changing the silence from incap with the classic stun.

    -Invisibility removal skills and pots shouldn't be removed at all, but they should have other effects attached to them. Invisibility removal via AoE effects should remain as it is. Almost all classes have their own AoE skill wich allows them to put NBs out of stealth, but the thing is, not all of them have the same effectiveness. The most dangerous skills for a stealthy NB are: Ritual from templars (covers a huge area, damages and snares), Volatile armor from DKs (covers a decent area, but spamming the skill will lead the DK to drain all of his magicka, so is not that reliable. Breath can be quite dangerous too, but only if you stay in front of the DK, due to the conal area), Hurricane from sorcerers (the most dangerous skill, covers a huge area and basically prevents you to execute sneak attacks on him), shalks from Wardens, and the totem from necros. The thing is: instead of changing how AoEs interact with invisibility, why not give NBs a better tool to avoid getting caught? My suggestion here is to change how the shadow works. By increasing both the range and duration of the shadow by a moderate amount they would allow NBs to set their traps better and to have a more reliable tool to escape when they can't become invisible. In addition, to compensate for the extra range, they could increase the cost of the teleport according to how far you are from your shadow. This would also help NBs to get out when someone uses a detection skill such as Expert hunter, and would make the removal of these skills unnecesary, as well as the increased damage from AoEs.

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  • Luede
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    bad NBs depend on cloak, good ones survive even if they are visible. it is a difficult class, which unfortunately is often chosen by new players and i think it needs some minor buffs/rework, but cloak is fine.
  • martinhpb16_ESO
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    Luede wrote: »
    bad NBs depend on cloak, good ones survive even if they are visible. it is a difficult class, which unfortunately is often chosen by new players and i think it needs some minor buffs/rework, but cloak is fine.

    Cloak is an integral skill that the majority of NBs "depend" on, whether they are new or vet players.

    Why is NB a difficult class? Please direct us to where has that definition been specified please.

    Thanks
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  • pokrakus
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    But I said GLASS CANNON builds require skilled players. Shouldn't be like that?
    There is many meta builds that works on NB too. But if u think about gank builds then yes u can't any more attack from invisibility stun, crit, put major defile , +20 %dmg increase for 6sec from insta cheapest ult in the game any more. + Major fracture from best spammable.... That was balanced? And ofc if u didn't kill that guy yet (light armoured, or medium didn't have much chance) and he put pressure on u u cloak and repeat. Here we go tank meta.
    Now I see more medium armour users in cyro sins that NB nerfs sorry Ballance.
    If u play solo PvP NB is still good but most ppl just used to choose this class to play broken gank , snipe builds. And wonder why got nerfed....
    Edited by pokrakus on March 5, 2020 11:10AM
  • Luede
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    Luede wrote: »
    bad NBs depend on cloak, good ones survive even if they are visible. it is a difficult class, which unfortunately is often chosen by new players and i think it needs some minor buffs/rework, but cloak is fine.

    Cloak is an integral skill that the majority of NBs "depend" on, whether they are new or vet players.

    Why is NB a difficult class? Please direct us to where has that definition been specified please.

    Thanks

    sure, cloak is a base skill, which is often used, but it shouldnt be a nobrainer. if a NB always dies when the opponent uses a detect pot, the NB is trash. The class needs more skill because you can make fewer mistakes than other classes and have a much smaller time window to kill good players.

    its one thing to kill potatos but it is a completely different thing to survive against good player..
  • Deathlord92
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    I use dark cloak and shadow disguise and both of them need a buff noobs will always cry because well they suck is what it is you can’t help them. Dark cloak should either get its purge back or get a healing buff or both shadow disguise is an escape tool it should give snare removal when used or movement speed. As for damage nb is in desperate need of a buff because I think it’s hilarious that the other classes can out heal be more tanky and do more damage nb is not the king of dps lmao 🤣🤣🤣
    Edited by Deathlord92 on March 5, 2020 11:29AM
  • Iskiab
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    NB is underpowered for sure. I still play my magblade in BGs and have easily the most hours played on my magblade. Despite this and decent KvD stats each BG it’s a struggle to even complete the 3 win BG quest.

    It usually takes maybe 6 games tops to complete it on my other characters, as a magblade it takes a lot.
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  • martinhpb16_ESO
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    pokrakus wrote: »
    But I said GLASS CANNON builds require skilled players. Shouldn't be like that?
    There is many meta builds that works on NB too. But if u think about gank builds then yes u can't any more attack from invisibility stun, crit, put major defile , +20 %dmg increase for 6sec from insta cheapest ult in the game any more. + Major fracture from best spammable.... That was balanced? And ofc if u didn't kill that guy yet (light armoured, or medium didn't have much chance) and he put pressure on u u cloak and repeat. Here we go tank meta.
    Now I see more medium armour users in cyro sins that NB nerfs sorry Ballance.
    If u play solo PvP NB is still good but most ppl just used to choose this class to play broken gank , snipe builds. And wonder why got nerfed....

    The style of gank you describe was not universally always successful. It is also situational and often results in xv1 if you cant escape. Moreover reasonable players have a pocket full of counters.

    And as you clearly state it takes skill, or more to the point practice to pull off well - so where is the problem?

    Also if that type of glass cannon play requires skill, presumably NB were in a balanced place before the nerfs, because now you say they are also in a good place because skilled players can still pull it off. Sorry I'm a bit confused.
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  • technohic
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    I think going your route where cloak is more of a sure thing falls short on disadvantages. When you double the cost, and add a spam recourse cost; what does it matter if the duration is doubled and its sure to last the full length?

    Makes it seem like you are just making it a crutch skill again without addressing the weakness of NB in that it now has in falling behind in fighting out of cloak. When players use cloak and shadow image both along with some speed, they still are a pain to hunt down if they didn't try to attack a zerg. They need to be able to fight more in a group
  • Czekoludek
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    pokrakus wrote: »
    NB is balanced now, no longer broken OP. I see really good NBs in BGs having high kill ratio. Class is no longer noob friendly if u play glass canon but in hands of skilled player still deadly.
    Your vision of cloak is for escape use only thought, would make NB almost nonkillable. Why don't remove crit bonus from it then?:)
    Really NB is in good balance ATM. Ofc ppl who played OP version of it now complain that they can't insta kill ppl, but you know it's balance.
    "but vulnerable if caught off guard." well they can wear heavy armour too have major evasion and mixed with cloak be tanky as hell and with pre-nerfed skills deadly.... I know I played NB.

    Do you play high MMR BGs? Almost every pvp ranking gives Nb's the lowest tier, most of Nb's main changed their PvP/PvE toon because Nb is weak, not balanced right now. It is an old truth now that if you are able to kill ppl effectively on Nb, you will do it better, faster and easier on ANY other class. Agreed that Nb should be class that isn't noob friendly, it should reward players for their skills. Now it even cannot properly do that. It is not balance when class is weakest in almost every departament. Do you even play nb or still live in 2018 when Nb's were OP?
  • martinhpb16_ESO
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    Luede wrote: »

    its one thing to kill potatos but it is a completely different thing to survive against good player..

    Problem is now in a lot of situations in a straight 1v1 it doesn't matter if you are a good player, I can go at a player for ages, they can't catch me but I'm like a bee buzzing around a mountain. or if i do geta solid burst on them they can get to full health in an instant. We got tanks that can also burst and heal, healers that can also tank and burst, DD classes that can cc and tank and the NB thats lost its spank and usp on cc. Yet still people cry for cloak nerf on other threads.

    So other classes require less skill? the people that play those classes are somehow less skilled?
    Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on March 5, 2020 12:05PM
    At least the spelling is difficult for you.
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  • Sanguinor2
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    So you want nightblades to be "vulnerable when caught off guard" but at the same time want to give them an Escape ability that has no counterplay at all. Logic doesnt check out.
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  • Iskiab
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    For magblades at least...

    For a good pvp build you need a good mix of defense, offense and cc. CC is good, offense is a little underpowered without proc sets because of no delayed burst ability, what’s really lacking is self healing.

    Everything in the NB toolkit is designed around being aggressive to heal yourself: siphoning strikes, sap, swallow soul, etc... The healing works out well in duels so magblade does pretty well there, but against multiple people you can’t always be aggressive. I think this is why it’s fine as a dueling spec but underperforms in BGs.
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  • Katahdin
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    Does ssomeone have a crib notes version of the OP. I don't have time to read a book rigjt now
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  • technohic
    technohic
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    Katahdin wrote: »
    Does ssomeone have a crib notes version of the OP. I don't have time to read a book rigjt now

    Pretty much the sum of it would be no revealing NBs from cloak but they take 20% more damage from AOE.
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    Only thing needing change is the fact the skill isn't working correctly, if that's the case as people are saying. A skill should work as intended.

    First off, its 2020. If you haven't figured out how to counter cloak easily, you need to find yourselves a good NB to practice against and you will learn quick how easy it is. Pretty much every class has something in their tool kit that is on their bar already that isn't just to counter NB's but just happens to be very effective against them. I never go into battle without detect pots.

    Good players will never get stunned by cloak SA combo and good players have no issue against cloak. They either immediately break cloak or while the NB is dilly dallying trying to get their HP back, you can also get your HP back, and usually more effectively then the NB anyways.

    That being said, I can understand why its annoying. Having someone so close to death get away is infuriating. But its easily counterable if you spend more time playing and less time complaining about it.

    Cloak does NOT need a buff either. Again, Just fix it. I'm saying its counterable, not weak. Two different things.

    As far as skill cap. People are half right half wrong. Of course a skilled player doesn't need cloak, but the measure of a class should not be what the top 1% can do. Therefore we should at least hear these people out and not flame them.

    As far as some saying people depend on cloak. That statement is kind of ridiculous. Its like saying "well, sorcs who depend on shields are not good" or "omg that Templar is so bad because he has to use heals!". its an ability that has been in games for decades now and it has its clear place in the genre.

    Playing devils advocate to myself, at the same time...stop depending on cloak!!! You CAN play without it! It takes practice, thats it! Shadow image is awesome and actually works now!

    Is NB in a weaker spot compared to other classes? Sure. Could they tweak it? Yes. Is it weak though? No.

    For goodness sakes, games been out 6 years. Get over cloak. If you played since beta like I have you would have already seen how many times the skill was nerfed in some way.
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  • Fur_like_snow
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    I’ll give you the same general advice I give to any player who has issues with a skill not working as well as it did in the past. Take it off your bar and look for an alternative.
  • OWLTHEMAD
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    I think swallow soul, dark cloak and siphoning strikes are undertuned in a purely pvp healing context, but i think shadowy disguise should be left alone.

    I do however think the secondary effect of shadowy disguise, the guaranteed crit after cloak should be changed to a general mechanic of sneak and should be available to all classes (play the way you want) and would prefer to trade it for some kind of mobility, or other offensive capacity. As it is I dont think it brings much to the table except for gankers, and i think if that secondary effect were given to everyone (like they have wrongfully done with just about all of the rest of our class identity) the class would recieve fewer complaints and could be more evenly balanced.

    But barring that change to sneak, i wouldnt advocate changing it at all. Its the only skill that feels as though it works perfectly well and according to logical design without being over powered
  • Luede
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    Luede wrote: »

    its one thing to kill potatos but it is a completely different thing to survive against good player..

    Problem is now in a lot of situations in a straight 1v1 it doesn't matter if you are a good player, I can go at a player for ages, they can't catch me but I'm like a bee buzzing around a mountain. or if i do geta solid burst on them they can get to full health in an instant. We got tanks that can also burst and heal, healers that can also tank and burst, DD classes that can cc and tank and the NB thats lost its spank and usp on cc. Yet still people cry for cloak nerf on other threads.

    So other classes require less skill? the people that play those classes are somehow less skilled?



    other classes need less skill to be more successfull with, yes. but that doesn't mean that the players are less skilled. I played 1,5 years a stam nb and switched to stam sorc. both classes are not top tier, and i think i played stam nb well too, but stam sorc is mutch easier to success with. i would see myself in the top 10%-15% of pvp players base



    Edited by Luede on March 6, 2020 6:29AM
  • Hotdog_23
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    In my opinion cloak is either NB greatest help or biggest hinderance to the class in PVP. In the hands of someone who knows how to play a NB they are still very lethal. On the other hand, if someone try to crutch and depend on it, they usually end up dying because they depend on it to much.

    Yes, there is counters to cloak but there was also counters to old DK wings and it still got changed/nerfed because people complained about it because they did not slot counters for it. This is the same thing for cloak. There are counters but people don’t want to slot them just in case they come across a NB. After all there is 5 other classes you will come across to play against and not just NB’s. Therefore, people complain in hopes it gets changed just like DK’s wings.
  • olsborg
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    Luede wrote: »
    bad NBs depend on cloak, good ones survive even if they are visible. it is a difficult class, which unfortunately is often chosen by new players and i think it needs some minor buffs/rework, but cloak is fine.

    Stamnbs needs particular buffs and more tools to survive outside of just cloaking away. Selfheals and more dmg that isnt so easy to just dodge away from.

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  • Artorias24
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    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.
  • Luede
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    Artorias24 wrote: »
    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.

    so the nightblade puts a lot of effort in his fight and u camp in ur totem and win without detection pots?
  • Hotdog_23
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    Artorias24 wrote: »
    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.

    My problem with cloak is there’s a lot of the counter’s outside of potions a NB can easily get out of their range of said counters. Especially when they have some speed built into the build. I think this where a lot of the complaints are coming from. Sure, they can break cloak in close quarters sometimes but the NB can usually quickly get out of range of said counter’s then pick when they want to engage again.
  • Artorias24
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    Luede wrote: »
    Artorias24 wrote: »
    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.

    so the nightblade puts a lot of effort in his fight and u camp in ur totem and win without detection pots?

    what am i supposed to do against a enemy i cant see? I put up my defense to prepare for the stealth ambush. I cant afford running around spamming mage light with a range of 0.5 meters to search for him.

    And i wouldnt call hiding im cloak for 80% of the fight as "lots of effort". Light attack into dodge roll then cloak until incap is up.
  • MusCanus
    MusCanus
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    Artorias24 wrote: »
    0.5 meters

    * 6 (12) meters
    Edited by MusCanus on March 6, 2020 11:28AM
  • Czekoludek
    Czekoludek
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    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    Artorias24 wrote: »
    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.

    My problem with cloak is there’s a lot of the counter’s outside of potions a NB can easily get out of their range of said counters. Especially when they have some speed built into the build. I think this where a lot of the complaints are coming from. Sure, they can break cloak in close quarters sometimes but the NB can usually quickly get out of range of said counter’s then pick when they want to engage again.

    Basically that Nb sacrifice it's damage and sustain for speed so his defence is more effective. It should be harder for you to mitigate that if opponent work for better defence. But you still can counter all of that with one potion
    Edited by Czekoludek on March 6, 2020 12:54PM
  • technohic
    technohic
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    Czekoludek wrote: »
    Hotdog_23 wrote: »
    Artorias24 wrote: »
    I recently dueled a stamblade with my magnecro and all i can say is that this was the most boring fight i ever Had. 90% of my skills are single target and i cant even fully buff up without a target (Degeneration). The Nightblade just rolls my force pulse, sets me off Balance with tactian and sneaks on me in cloak, channels heavy attack into incap and easily has 30% damage increase on me (exploiter+incap) and nearly one shots me. If this fails, just roll and cloak a bit until incap is up again and repeat. All this time i cant hit due to cloak and dodge roll synergy.

    I tried to use magelight to prevent cloaking but the range is too smal and i am not able to catch a Nightblade with easy acces to major Expedition. Also mage light cuts my magicka really fast and i cant sustain it with a high uptime. In the end i killed the Nightblade by camping in my totem and perma block when He is invis. But thats faaaar from being fun and satisfying combat system. Its boring af.

    My problem with cloak is there’s a lot of the counter’s outside of potions a NB can easily get out of their range of said counters. Especially when they have some speed built into the build. I think this where a lot of the complaints are coming from. Sure, they can break cloak in close quarters sometimes but the NB can usually quickly get out of range of said counter’s then pick when they want to engage again.

    Basically that Nb sacrifice it's damage and sustain for speed so his defence is more effective. It should be harder for you to mitigate that if opponent work for better defence. But you still can counter all of that with one potion

    Pretty much every class that does melee needs to consider that.
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