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Fast Combat with performance decline vs Slow Combat and performance increase. Red Pill or Blue Pill.
Thevampirenight
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The game was designed in mind for massive multiplayer pve and pvp warfare. Massive warfare in Cyrodiil. Possibly hundreds of thousands of players all competing all fighting. Then came the bot trains the bot invasion that forced them to move a lot of the code server side. Then cheat engine.
So everything like Attributes, to a lot of coding, Combat abilties, abilties passives and Cp all those calculations. Are done by the server not the client. Game Servers were designed for massive pvp and Pve. But the majority of the stuff was designed to be Client side. Combat stuff code and calculations, Now that the server has do all of it. The problem is the servers were never meant to calculate all this code it has to run. It wasn't designed around that.
Before the game could handle the fast past, ability spam, animation canceling, no cool downs what so ever. Massive fast combat with little to no restrictions. Those days are sadly over for Eso or should have been.
There is a lot they should do or should have done, from turning most percent values into flat values. So the servers will not be strained by the massive number of calculations they are forced to perform. To adding more cast times and even cool downs though I would prefer they didn't to certain abilties.
Game just can't handle the fast paced combat people like and enjoy very much. Now its just straining the servers because servers were not designed to calculate the things it calculates now. Sadly players might not recognize it I'm not even sure if Zenimax recognizes it.
Game performance is getting worse and worse, the more calculations Zenimax add server side the worse it gets and also other factors like not fixing certain things as well as the game file size. But the biggest issue would be the server is being forced to perform what it wasn't built to do. So that is why I put down in the poll Choices, Red pill or Blue Pill. Red Pill is understanding how things are right now and what has to be done given the circumstances. Blue pill is not recognizing what needs to be done and prefer the decline over slower paced combat.
As much as I love the fast paced combat. I understand the servers can't handle what its being asked to do as it wasn't designed for that purpose. That there needs to be massive changes to how the code functions to converting to flat based combat values instead of percentages. There needs to be cast times or cool downs on abilties that hurt game performance if over spammed and there needs to be a bit of slow down in how combat is in general. Because performance is only getting worse. So its either the red pill or the blue pill take your pick. The red pill might save the game, the blue pill might lead into the games ruin.
Edited by Thevampirenight on March 5, 2020 10:21AM So everything like Attributes, to a lot of coding, Combat abilties, abilties passives and Cp all those calculations. Are done by the server not the client. Game Servers were designed for massive pvp and Pve. But the majority of the stuff was designed to be Client side. Combat stuff code and calculations, Now that the server has do all of it. The problem is the servers were never meant to calculate all this code it has to run. It wasn't designed around that.
Before the game could handle the fast past, ability spam, animation canceling, no cool downs what so ever. Massive fast combat with little to no restrictions. Those days are sadly over for Eso or should have been.
There is a lot they should do or should have done, from turning most percent values into flat values. So the servers will not be strained by the massive number of calculations they are forced to perform. To adding more cast times and even cool downs though I would prefer they didn't to certain abilties.
Game just can't handle the fast paced combat people like and enjoy very much. Now its just straining the servers because servers were not designed to calculate the things it calculates now. Sadly players might not recognize it I'm not even sure if Zenimax recognizes it.
Game performance is getting worse and worse, the more calculations Zenimax add server side the worse it gets and also other factors like not fixing certain things as well as the game file size. But the biggest issue would be the server is being forced to perform what it wasn't built to do. So that is why I put down in the poll Choices, Red pill or Blue Pill. Red Pill is understanding how things are right now and what has to be done given the circumstances. Blue pill is not recognizing what needs to be done and prefer the decline over slower paced combat.
As much as I love the fast paced combat. I understand the servers can't handle what its being asked to do as it wasn't designed for that purpose. That there needs to be massive changes to how the code functions to converting to flat based combat values instead of percentages. There needs to be cast times or cool downs on abilties that hurt game performance if over spammed and there needs to be a bit of slow down in how combat is in general. Because performance is only getting worse. So its either the red pill or the blue pill take your pick. The red pill might save the game, the blue pill might lead into the games ruin.
PC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
Please add Fangs to Vampires.
Fast Combat with performance decline vs Slow Combat and performance increase. Red Pill or Blue Pill. 43 votes
Red Pill- I understand this game can't handle the massive fast paced combat and it needs to be slowed down. Cool Downs, Cast times, flat based Values. Even if I don't like it.
41%
18 votes
Blue Pill- I want Fast Game combat (even if it kills the Servers), though I think your wrong and it has no effects on the servers. No Cool Downs, No Cast Times, No Flat Values.
58%
25 votes
1
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Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Or the hidden third option ZOS have opted for: Slower combat with performance decline
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Thevampirenight✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Red Pill- I understand this game can't handle the massive fast paced combat and it needs to be slowed down. Cool Downs, Cast times, flat based Values. Even if I don't like it.Darkstorne wrote: »Or the hidden third option ZOS have opted for: Slower combat with performance decline
The update actually helped peoples performance while also decreasing some peoples performance so its a mixed bag more a purple pill. However I don't think they are doing enough to address the real issues that are the most logical ones. But they are helping at least with the changes they are doing. Though it might take some time for their efforts to bear fruit as they are just getting started with the performance fixes and its going to take a lot of work to put a dent in into the decreasing performance. But if they don't rework those calculations and limit the number of % based ones I think it will get worse each time they add in a new calculation. That is why there needs to be a conversion to flat based values. To get a lid on that problem. More cast times or actual cool downs on performance killing abilties like Healing Springs and others that players might use a lot of. Also needs to be put into place that way pvp performance can go up. That way the servers are not being stressed out.Edited by Thevampirenight on March 5, 2020 10:34AMPC NA
Please add Fangs to Vampires.0 -
5cript✭✭✭✭Blue Pill- I want Fast Game combat (even if it kills the Servers), though I think your wrong and it has no effects on the servers. No Cool Downs, No Cast Times, No Flat Values.This shouldn't be or isn't even the question.
You also have the global 1 second cooldown on skills already.
The game has become gradually worse feeling and laggyness starts to seep out of cyro into all parts of the game.
But Gutting the doe doesn't revive it.
Also I doubt it will help much.
From my experience, the game becomes worse and worse, but we are told they are working to make it better and better.
They implement more cast times to spells? guess what it will run even shittier.
EDIT: Also Cyro is in a state that is impossible to play, I dont even bother.
I tired to duel nirnstorm the other day and I could maybe use 2 skills every 10 seconds.Edited by 5cript on March 5, 2020 11:06AM3 -
Khumbu✭✭✭Red Pill- I understand this game can't handle the massive fast paced combat and it needs to be slowed down. Cool Downs, Cast times, flat based Values. Even if I don't like it.The only time in my life I will say “I’ll take the red pill” *side-eyes certain internet communities*
Fast-paced combat didn’t mean much when half of your skills didn’t even go off in time due to lag in the middle of big trial or pvp battles. Nothing like wondering why your dps suddenly tanked or a vital healing spell didn’t go off in time when you know you hit the button... oh wait, it’s because you were faster than the game’s laggy inputs.
At least with combat slowed down, the game is realistically paced to what it can actually handle and that happens less often. Also, the random framerate chugging that has plagued the entire game since launch is almost entirely gone - at least on my end. Yes there are still bugs (particularly my Warden bear has been quite a diva ever since the Update 25 version 2 patch in early March), but the game is moving in the right direction and these fixes were LONG overdue.1 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blue Pill- I want Fast Game combat (even if it kills the Servers), though I think your wrong and it has no effects on the servers. No Cool Downs, No Cast Times, No Flat Values.Tbh, I don't understand point of slowing down combat... if somebody is only doing quests, trading, housing + casual PVE - nothing wrong in that, but they are not impacted by performance problems maybe with exception of some group finder issues during events. But if you play this game mostly for endgame PVE and PVP.. those will be pointless without fast-paced combat. So if ZOS will move to cooldowns and removal of animation cancelling they will only lose those who play ESO because of unique combat system, but those who will remain will win nothing from this changes.1 -
Radiance✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why don't we all stand side by side like some lame line infantrymen and take turns attacking like some out of date bs yugioh card game...
No.
I won't play a game with cast times, I'd rather let this game die (As all things must) and find a new one with an engine that's up to date that can handle the strain.
I love ES Lore, I've been here since beta bc I played Morrowind as a child but if you're gonna change a game beyond recognition you might as well make a new one. As of now, we're going on year 6 or 7? And this one's getting stale anyway. You can tell a game is dying when they start to do exactly what they're doing now by abusing the Events and twisting everything into a money-making scheme that is designed to direct you to the Crown Store. I've seen it happen in other games so I know it when I see it and it started with the Indrik Event Tickets. Why do you think they have so many "Free" ESO+ Events to bring in New players!? Bc they have no incentive to keep their customers happy when they can just bring in new and unsuspecting Cash Cows.
The End is Nigh! lol
P.S. By "Dying" I don't mean the servers will shut off, I mean the Soul of what once made the game so fun is waning. So don't @ me with your Bootlicking FanBoy BS, iRdc.5 -
Ectheliontnacil✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd rather have bots and cheat engine than cast times tbh.
Bots lower mat prices so actually I wouldn't mind them at all.6 -
Gythral✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭New servers
slow the game down - it isnt TES
continue with these jokes - it isnt something worth paying for
If that means a total server code rewirte to sort out the bottleneck, then it shout be got on with...
so I choose the bitter pill which ZOS probably wont swallow!
“Be as a tower, that, firmly set,
Shakes not its top for any blast that blows!”
Dante Alighieri, The Divine Comedy0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭It's a FALSE statement, there is zero indication at all that the performance issues are truly caused by the fact the combat is real time. They tried to change the block system and the game is now broken, making it SLOW on top of lagging doesn't help at all.
There is zero reason whatsoever to take anything in the idea that having realistic combat is what causes the lag with more than a giant grain of salt. It was performing OK in the summer from what I remember, cyrodil WILL NEVER not lag sorry guys it's just to many people.
I don't see how threads like this can stay up it's 100% speculation and presenting a false dichotomy between having fast paced combat which is the only real reason to put up with the countless other issues in PVP, and having horrific lag which is clearly a product of the animations themselves not the cancelling of them.
All this is as far as I can tell is people want to to completely GUT the combat system to make it for suitable for boomers who cannot keep up. If it was a real choice, between those things most of the good players would just quit the game.8 -
Contaminate✭✭✭✭✭
✭It’s not the fault of fast-paced combat that’s been in the game long before the performance decline that ZOS has no idea how to add to their game without breaking things.2 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other pill: Find another game that can provide fast combat AND deliver acceptable performance.1 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blue Pill- I want Fast Game combat (even if it kills the Servers), though I think your wrong and it has no effects on the servers. No Cool Downs, No Cast Times, No Flat Values.Thread based on a false assumption to start with. They getting idea of how to fix things now but doing poor execution like always. Reducing amount of calculations, reworking how load works, storage, resource consumption etc. and not just turning one of the best combat systems into wow'ish crap which anyway would require rewriting whole game and redoing all trials and dungeons from the ground up with no guarantee that it will help in any way but making slow paced people happy.2 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭Red Pill- I understand this game can't handle the massive fast paced combat and it needs to be slowed down. Cool Downs, Cast times, flat based Values. Even if I don't like it.MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tbh, I don't understand point of slowing down combat... if somebody is only doing quests, trading, housing + casual PVE - nothing wrong in that, but they are not impacted by performance problems maybe with exception of some group finder issues during events. But if you play this game mostly for endgame PVE and PVP.. those will be pointless without fast-paced combat. So if ZOS will move to cooldowns and removal of animation cancelling they will only lose those who play ESO because of unique combat system, but those who will remain will win nothing from this changes.
When combat is adjusted and overall damage is dropped the developer will adjust enemies health and mechanics to ensure groups still can complete content just fine. You may see a slight increase in time of completion but it shouldn't be more than a few minutes.
I'd rather combat slow down a bit to improve system performance. As someone that just started to get into PVP I noticed that often times I am killed by a player and I see one animation but the death screens show four abilities they used. This is why PVP zone is so slow, so many players using animation cancelling and weaving that the system hiccups and causes major lag. Slowing down combat would greatly improve our experience in the PVP zone and even the PVE zones.0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭I ain't taking no pills from this OP.WHAT IF I TOLD YOU
The Ideas presented in this thread have no basis in reality5 -
vestahls✭✭✭✭✭
✭Red Pill- I understand this game can't handle the massive fast paced combat and it needs to be slowed down. Cool Downs, Cast times, flat based Values. Even if I don't like it.Based and, dare I say it...“He is even worse than a n'wah. He is - may Vivec forgive me for uttering this word - a Hlaalu.”luv Abnur
luv Rigurt
luv Stibbons
'ate Ayrenn
'ate Razum-dar
'ate Khamira
simple as0 -
WreckfulAbandon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Darkstorne wrote: »Or the hidden third option ZOS have opted for: Slower combat with performance decline
Yeah this is my main issue with the 2 options offered. We aren't really seeing that we will actually get an increase in performance when they slow things down so it's a double negative.
The block change is making me seriously reconsider supporting and playing this game.PC NA
All my comments are regarding PvP2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Blue Pill- I want Fast Game combat (even if it kills the Servers), though I think your wrong and it has no effects on the servers. No Cool Downs, No Cast Times, No Flat Values.MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tbh, I don't understand point of slowing down combat... if somebody is only doing quests, trading, housing + casual PVE - nothing wrong in that, but they are not impacted by performance problems maybe with exception of some group finder issues during events. But if you play this game mostly for endgame PVE and PVP.. those will be pointless without fast-paced combat. So if ZOS will move to cooldowns and removal of animation cancelling they will only lose those who play ESO because of unique combat system, but those who will remain will win nothing from this changes.
This is why PVP zone is so slow, so many players using animation cancelling and weaving that the system hiccups and causes major lag. Slowing down combat would greatly improve our experience in the PVP zone and even the PVE zones.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. Of course there were always problems with performance, de-syncs etc... but on large scale they began year ago when game population drastically increased. Before that performance was on tolerable level in PVP and absolutely fine in PVE - and there were no cast time abilities with few exceptions.
Also our experience won't improve. Something may look fun while it is new, but you will be bored very fast both by PVP and endgame PVE if everything will be slow and predictable. Animation cancelling exists in vast majority of games, especially PVP games and timings and how fast and precise buttons are pressed is considerable part of the player skill. Removing this fast combat can only be compensated by complex tactics and mechanics which can't be achieved in 3rd person view MMORPG.3 -
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tbh, I don't understand point of slowing down combat... if somebody is only doing quests, trading, housing + casual PVE - nothing wrong in that, but they are not impacted by performance problems maybe with exception of some group finder issues during events. But if you play this game mostly for endgame PVE and PVP.. those will be pointless without fast-paced combat. So if ZOS will move to cooldowns and removal of animation cancelling they will only lose those who play ESO because of unique combat system, but those who will remain will win nothing from this changes.
This is why PVP zone is so slow, so many players using animation cancelling and weaving that the system hiccups and causes major lag. Slowing down combat would greatly improve our experience in the PVP zone and even the PVE zones.
Sorry, but this is simply not true. Of course there were always problems with performance, de-syncs etc... but on large scale they began year ago when game population drastically increased. Before that performance was on tolerable level in PVP and absolutely fine in PVE - and there were no cast time abilities with few exceptions.
Also our experience won't improve. Something may look fun while it is new, but you will be bored very fast both by PVP and endgame PVE if everything will be slow and predictable. Animation cancelling exists in vast majority of games, especially PVP games and timings and how fast and precise buttons are pressed is considerable part of the player skill. Removing this fast combat can only be compensated by complex tactics and mechanics which can't be achieved in 3rd person view MMORPG.
Agree with this. The hope would be changes that can appeal to both RP PvE exploratory types AND end game fast paced combat types as well. That's an oversimplification of coarse since there are plenty who like both equally. But in terms of addressing the issues, it should be that they provide changes that give us OPTIONS for both rather than their patent nerf approach of simply dumbing down and reducing things, i.e. slower gameplay. As another poster said, there is nothing more infuriating than dying or failing something because my imput and reaction time was fast enough, but the game didn't register it. If the game registers my imput yet I die then fine that's my L2P issue. Soldiers obsessively clean and maintain their firearms for this very reason. Frankly I dont see much use for PvP if they slow things down other than completionist types going for locations and lore books, extra skyshards for skill points, and RP people lining up horses for 2 hours.2