Logged on to play BGs with my bf like we have done for years. I cannot believe this has gone live

tsaescishoeshiner · February 2020

As far as solutions: play Imperial City (topside). Don't worry about Tel Var, just gear up and go. You'll see solos, pairs, zergs-of-opportunity, and small groups. All while maybe making a few thousand Tel Var! The Alliance factor can be limiting, but it's still a lot of fun

I don't think a group vs non-group queue would work—there might not be enough groups at any given time, and it would impact both queues. I think Ranked & Unranked would make sense, with the hopes that "serious" pre-mades would play ranked (maybe get rewards?).

Pre-mades make a lot of battlegrounds so one-sided that it was just not that fun. I was in a pre-made once that stomped the other teams and it was ... pretty boring

I at least wish they would allow duos to queue together. That would let people play together and not take over a whole match as much

rager82b14_ESO · February 2020

This is a small price to pay for a better pvp

Kadoin · February 2020

tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »

As far as solutions: play Imperial City (topside). Don't worry about Tel Var, just gear up and go. You'll see solos, pairs, zergs-of-opportunity, and small groups. All while maybe making a few thousand Tel Var! The Alliance factor can be limiting, but it's still a lot of fun

I don't think a group vs non-group queue would work—there might not be enough groups at any given time, and it would impact both queues. I think Ranked & Unranked would make sense, with the hopes that "serious" pre-mades would play ranked (maybe get rewards?).

Pre-mades make a lot of battlegrounds so one-sided that it was just not that fun. I was in a pre-made once that stomped the other teams and it was ... pretty boring

I at least wish they would allow duos to queue together. That would let people play together and not take over a whole match as much

That's what you think...

NBrookus · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

You're still on a team. It's still a team based mode of play.
You just get random teammates.

🤷‍♂️

I’ll just delete my whole friends list then. Honestly can’t believe I’m trying to justify why this should be an option

When we complained about faction lock not letting us play with friends, everyone said to go play BGs.

HalvarIronfist · February 2020

Mjoellnir wrote: »

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

Unfortunately this is a reality, I ran into quite a few matches against the same person, and we both went 20+ with under 3 deaths, given the other players didnt seem to be as skilled, or co-ordinated.

Essentially, these were deathmatches with one person carrying each team, and the rest seemed to be more like cannon fodder rather than teammates, or opponents.

If this is what ZOS envisioned as a fair matchmaking, I'd rather go back in time to duo queue with a friend where fighting full premades was at least interesting.

Just my thoughts.

Vanos444 · February 2020

Give them time, they might fix or implemented it after a decade...meanwhile, the crown store feature are working as intended.

russelmmendoza · February 2020

Premades crying.

Happy day indeed.

Tyvm zos.

russelmmendoza · February 2020

Premades crying.

Happy day indeed.

Tyvm zos.

Xarc · February 2020

BG are better now without theses premade team. TY zos.

xshatox · February 2020

Learn, adapt and move on.
Now people will slot CC, damage, buff and heal.
Not just 1 for CC, 2 for DD, 1 for buff and heal.

valkyrie93 · February 2020

xshatox wrote: »

Learn, adapt and move on.
Now people will slot CC, damage, buff and heal.
Not just 1 for CC, 2 for DD, 1 for buff and heal.

I don't see the problem with the latter in this 4 man team game mode?

Again, why not just throw us all in there without teams then. This is coming from someone who mainly played in a duo. I just want to be able to have a fun experience WITH my friends in an MMO

valkyrie93 · February 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

Mjoellnir wrote: »

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

Unfortunately this is a reality, I ran into quite a few matches against the same person, and we both went 20+ with under 3 deaths, given the other players didnt seem to be as skilled, or co-ordinated.

Essentially, these were deathmatches with one person carrying each team, and the rest seemed to be more like cannon fodder rather than teammates, or opponents.

If this is what ZOS envisioned as a fair matchmaking, I'd rather go back in time to duo queue with a friend where fighting full premades was at least interesting.

Just my thoughts.

This is such a good point. Did they not think of this?

valkyrie93 · February 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

This is a small price to pay for a better pvp

"""""better pvp""""" again NO POSSIBILITY FOR VOICE COMMS, no coordination, anything... if that's your idea of better pvp then congrats, you got what you wanted. people who play this /used to be/ fun game mode with their friends have to suffer. even games like pubg allow you to group with people you know if you wish. I have no words for this.

tim99 · February 2020

Stebarnz wrote: »

have 2 q's see which is more popular.

i have 2 for the OP... check it out:

Q Q

valkyrie93 · February 2020

I never thought I'd say this but I'm cancelling my sub and I won't be buying Greymoor for as long as this is the case. Honestly *** this ***.

rager82b14_ESO · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

I never thought I'd say this but I'm cancelling my sub and I won't be buying Greymoor for as long as this is the case. Honestly *** this ***.

Sorry to see ya go! but if this is enough for ya to quit. Than seeya.

valkyrie93 · February 2020

rager82b14_ESO wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

I never thought I'd say this but I'm cancelling my sub and I won't be buying Greymoor for as long as this is the case. Honestly *** this ***.

Sorry to see ya go! but if this is enough for ya to quit. Than seeya.

Of course it is? Playing BGs with my friends was a big part of this game for me. What about people who's main focus is Cyrodiil or dungeons and they changed something huge about those that stopped them from playing with their friends? I think that's a perfectly understandable reason to quit.

The other parts of the game (that I've played to death btw) aren't enticing enough for me to stay and support a company that treats their players like this. This is more than enough for me to go. Having said that, I loved the game for years so it had to take a lot. This for me is a lot. You can't judge that, you probably have a completely different experience.

xshatox · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

xshatox wrote: »

Learn, adapt and move on.
Now people will slot CC, damage, buff and heal.
Not just 1 for CC, 2 for DD, 1 for buff and heal.

I don't see the problem with the latter in this 4 man team game mode?

Again, why not just throw us all in there without teams then. This is coming from someone who mainly played in a duo. I just want to be able to have a fun experience WITH my friends in an MMO

of course you are.
most people in BG is solo, they wont have a chance against mini ball group. now that its not possible they have to learn how to play. by playing with friends you means steamrolling solo player.

StrawberryKitsune · February 2020

xshatox wrote: »

valkyrie93 wrote: »

xshatox wrote: »

Learn, adapt and move on.
Now people will slot CC, damage, buff and heal.
Not just 1 for CC, 2 for DD, 1 for buff and heal.

I don't see the problem with the latter in this 4 man team game mode?

Again, why not just throw us all in there without teams then. This is coming from someone who mainly played in a duo. I just want to be able to have a fun experience WITH my friends in an MMO

of course you are.
most people in BG is solo, they wont have a chance against mini ball group. now that its not possible they have to learn how to play. by playing with friends you means steamrolling solo player.

By playing with friends I suspect she means playing with friends and you’re just being salty. I’m no longer interested in playing BGs with this change. I liked to queue with 1-3 friends for the fun of it. We chatted in the 30 minute plus queues, duelled a bit and just messed about to make the time pass. We didn’t specially optimise with set roles or gear. Sometimes we steamrolled others, sometimes we steamrolled less experienced players, sometimes we we’re steamrolled by more experienced players And I know at least 9/10 of our losses were due to our errors not the other teams. I’d expect that most of the teams that beat us weren’t permafrost either but much better solo players grouped on random. But we did play the modes as intended rather than running around like headless chickens trying to kill everything that crossed our panic-blurred vision. Whether banning premades or not that last point will still be a big reason for teams losing. The main thing though was we had fun TOGETHER in fast paced modes designed to encourage team play not solo play.

The snipe spammer will still spam snipe.
The guy/gal hiding in a corner with a BG induced in game anxiety attack will still hide and contribute nothing.
The less experienced will still get spanked by the more experienced (especially for the next month with MMR reset). The only things that changed is there is now less choice in the game than before and you can’t blame premades for your own failures. And by your I mean a collective your not you specifically.

What I’d be interested to know is if the group chat is getting more toxic with previously grouped players getting paired with randoms they feel aren’t doing what needs to be done. I hope not but I’m still curious to know. I personally am not interested in BGs anymore with this change as I said before. Mostly because of similar reasons why people don’t like randomly queuing for dungeons.

TLDR; choice is never a bad thing and should be embraced.

HalvarIronfist · February 2020

valkyrie93 wrote: »

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

Mjoellnir wrote: »

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

Unfortunately this is a reality, I ran into quite a few matches against the same person, and we both went 20+ with under 3 deaths, given the other players didnt seem to be as skilled, or co-ordinated.

Essentially, these were deathmatches with one person carrying each team, and the rest seemed to be more like cannon fodder rather than teammates, or opponents.

If this is what ZOS envisioned as a fair matchmaking, I'd rather go back in time to duo queue with a friend where fighting full premades was at least interesting.

Just my thoughts.

This is such a good point. Did they not think of this?

This patch actually made me stop playing BGs on my main (StamDK) even as a solo. I really don't see the point in how the game is supposed to be at all competitive in these circumstances. I ran into even more games like this the further I went on, and even as I switched to alts. Sure, having the easy fights and squishing people is fun, but what isn't fun is having a 1v1v1 competition (for example, in deathmatch) to see who can carry their team the hardest and fastest.

This is not fair gameplay, this is not competitive gameplay, this is not fun or interesting gameplay.

Though; i feel like the MMR reset may have been the cause of this. I was higher MMR before the reset, and now I'm just having games where I can literally fall asleep because there's no challenge in most of the fights.

Ultimately; boasting and whatnot aside. I love ESO, But I wouldn't personally trust ZOS with decision making. If I flipped a coin, I could almost expect someone there to tell me that Heads is really Tails, or that Tails is really Heads. A stupid decision, followed by broken logic in most cases. But, if you wait another three months, they'll take back that decision, admit it was wrong, and rinse/repeat.

yRaven · February 2020

I love solo BGs, as i hate to find pre-mades, really last time i had 3 PetSorc with a MagDen, it was hell, but i also get what you mean, it would be fun if they do... Fortnite way... yes Fortnite... Wait i will explain, basically there's 2 instances, one if you queue alone, that will put you with only ppl that queued alone too, and another with ppl that queue together, that will put you with another ppl that did the same, but i also can see how this would not work in ESO, so i don't know what to do

Kahnak · February 2020

You want someone to be upset at? Be upset at the people screeching on this forum about how unfair it is that people have friends to play BG's with. Now we can't queue in a group for BG's because we have to cater to anti-social players who insist on soloing an MMO. Besides that, it was announced months ago that this was going to happen, so it shouldn't have been a surprise. Half of the complaints on this forum are simply a result of ZOS giving the community what they asked for. Is it a stupid change? Obviously. Every other MMO gives players the ability to create a pre-made group for arena style PvP. However, if enough people complain about something in this game it will eventually be addressed by ZOS. If the only feedback that ZOS sees is riddled with exaggeration and hyperbole, this is what you get. For whatever reason, people here are incapable of being objective about their game experience or forgo it completely in favor of throwing the biggest tantrum possible.

butterrum222 · February 2020

You can still play in pre made groups on console for a few more days

JanTanhide · February 2020

This happened due to PVP crowd demanding it over and over and over. Well, they got what they wanted.

Mayrael · February 2020

JanTanhide wrote: »

This happened due to PVP crowd demanding it over and over and over. Well, they got what they wanted.

Nope. PvP crowd wanted to separate premades from ransoms, that's all.

All they need to do was create two separate queues. One for solo players, second for 2 and 4man groups - no 3man groups because it would cause problems with even team creating. Now you just join 2man groups in 4 man groups and there you go. You have premade and solo queue, everyone's happy, but no ZOS is "smarter".

Kahnak · February 2020

Mayrael wrote: »

JanTanhide wrote: »

This happened due to PVP crowd demanding it over and over and over. Well, they got what they wanted.

Nope. PvP crowd wanted to separate premades from ransoms, that's all.

All they need to do was create two separate queues. One for solo players, second for 2 and 4man groups - no 3man groups because it would cause problems with even team creating. Now you just join 2man groups in 4 man groups and there you go. You have premade and solo queue, everyone's happy, but no ZOS is "smarter".

There aren't enough people doing BG's at any one time to warrant two separate queues, especially taking MMR into consideration. Not to mention the havoc that additional tinkering would cause with the already precarious LFG system they have in place.

OtarTheMad · February 2020

They did it partially because of player feedback and as an experiment. (Probably testing a lot of different things about BGs in general) They talked about this in the patch notes but I think also on an ESO Live. Hard to test on PTS since barely anyone is on it.

Faulgor · February 2020

I haven't done BGs in a long time, but when I did, I always ran solo.
Never understood what everyone's beef was with premade groups. Coordinated groups are better than PUGs, so what, how is that a revelation to anybody? That's the case in any game, anywhere. Seemed to me as working as intended.

But if that's really such a concern for other solo players, they could add a buff to players when queuing solo, like dungeon PUGs get a buff for using the group finder.

Dagoth_Rac · February 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

Mjoellnir wrote: »

I can just totally agree with you. If i wanted to play something just by myself i'd play a singleplayer game...
And I'm not too sure if this widens the skill gap even more too. I mean it's obvious that a 4-man-group of good players could really destroy a round, no need denying that. But a single good player against a coordinated group of not-so-good players had at least a challenge and could not as easily dominate a round as it is possible now when fighting against other single players... Pretty sure you all know about how often PUGs work together well

Unfortunately this is a reality, I ran into quite a few matches against the same person, and we both went 20+ with under 3 deaths, given the other players didnt seem to be as skilled, or co-ordinated.

Essentially, these were deathmatches with one person carrying each team, and the rest seemed to be more like cannon fodder rather than teammates, or opponents.

If this is what ZOS envisioned as a fair matchmaking, I'd rather go back in time to duo queue with a friend where fighting full premades was at least interesting.

Just my thoughts.

MMR was reset. As you play more, the characters dominating should move up in MMR and began to face groups filled (albeit filled randomly) with players who are also very good. This solo-queue-only is an unusual decision by ZOS, but I think it does need some time for more matches to occur and MMR to rebuild.

eso_lags · February 2020

Aedrion wrote: »

Of all the hallmarks of incompetence, this conscious, intended design choice to me permanently labels Zo$ as an objectively bad developer.

There was always some doubt that they might've had a plan, or a direction or that somebody with some qualifications was in charge who knew things we didn't.
After this, there is no doubt that they're just a bunch of clueless people, handling a game they don't understand in any way.

We'd be better off if the sold it to another company, at this point.

I can easily think of a hundred things that zos has done over the years that makes them a bad developer. You can add this to the list but there are so many others. Especially as a console pvp player. They ignore issues, they lie, and they seem to suffer from what most game devs suffer from these days, being so money hungry that they put the game and the players far behind stupid cash grabs.

A lot of the time its a lack of effort, sometimes maybe misplaced resources to make the game more shiny instead of focusing on things that matter, or they just know something is a problem that they cant, or wont, fix for a very long time so they ignore us about it. I've seen it happen over and over again and its just sad.