Misinformation and requirements for posting combat-related feedback?

StaticWave · February 2020

Seriously, the forums is full of misinformation. I get it people have different opinions, but when it comes to combat feedback, posts like spread more misinformation than actual useful information.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514052/combat-changes-are-pretty-good#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514181/what-people-should-understand-about-animation-canceling-beneficial-lag-and-the-performance-overhauls#latest

I honestly think Forum mods should heavily moderate these kinds of posts to prevent further spreading of misinformation. It's a shame that normal mechanics in the game are being put on blast by people who have zero knowledge of how the game works.

mairwen85 · February 2020

It's why I rarely post anymore. So much ***, and it leaks so often into game chat.

Facepalming, the real eso endgame.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

Well I'm not trying to give misinformation. Well I do tend to mix a speculation with facts and well its a not a good thing and its a character flaw. It really is something I should work on not doing. Not trying to mislead anyone. I don't know if the others are can't speak for them.
I will admit most of what I post might not be actually correct some of it might be some of it might not be. Some might agree some might disagree.

However these are forums and people do have the right to speak their mind up to a point they do have community rules and guide lines and they have those linked on the very top. A lot of threads might be about speculation and ideas, others information. I do try to be helpful but I know my flaws as a person do sometimes show and that thread you linked above that I made is one of those threads. Not one of my best and well point is they want threads to be constructive. Sometimes it might even help to dm the person and talk with them. Help them not to look like complete idiots. Like I did tonight with myself, so there is more then just saying you can't speak your mind. However I do think they could do more the moderators.

mairwen85 · February 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well I'm not trying to give misinformation. Well I do tend to mix a speculation with facts and well its a not a good thing and its a character flaw. It really is something I should work on not doing. Not trying to mislead anyone. I don't know if the others are can't speak for them.
I will admit most of what I post might not be actually correct some of it might be some of it might not be. Some might agree some might disagree.

However these are forums and people do have the right to speak their mind up to a point they do have community rules and guide lines and they have those linked on the very top. A lot of threads might be about speculation and ideas others information I do try to be helpful but I know my flaws as a person do sometimes show and that thread you linked above that I made is one of those threads. Not one of my best and well point is they want threats to be constructive. Sometimes it might even help to dm the person and talk with them. Help them not to make look like complete idiots. Like I did tonight with myself .

Why not preface your thread with that then? Because as written it states 'speculation' and opinion as fact. That's a common flaw, and this day and age, many people will read and regurgitate any information that chimes with their opinion if it sounds right, not delve into the actual correctness of it, nor look to see if someone has replied correct info several posts down.

rager82b14_ESO · February 2020

So I proved people like you wrong in my thread, and you had to make a new one crying about misinfo when nothing in what I said was wrong?

You are right, mods should be dealing with people like you, who lies on players, and crying misinfo when you don't agree with them.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

mairwen85 wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Well I'm not trying to give misinformation. Well I do tend to mix a speculation with facts and well its a not a good thing and its a character flaw. It really is something I should work on not doing. Not trying to mislead anyone. I don't know if the others are can't speak for them.
I will admit most of what I post might not be actually correct some of it might be some of it might not be. Some might agree some might disagree.

However these are forums and people do have the right to speak their mind up to a point they do have community rules and guide lines and they have those linked on the very top. A lot of threads might be about speculation and ideas others information I do try to be helpful but I know my flaws as a person do sometimes show and that thread you linked above that I made is one of those threads. Not one of my best and well point is they want threats to be constructive. Sometimes it might even help to dm the person and talk with them. Help them not to make look like complete idiots. Like I did tonight with myself .

Why not preface your thread with that then? Because as written it states 'speculation' and opinion as fact. That's a common flaw, and this day and age, many people will read and regurgitate any information that chimes with their opinion if it sounds right, not delve into the actual correctness of it, nor look to see if someone has replied correct info several posts down.

Well I type things to fast sometimes and I do take time to edit what I write which is why you might see a lot of edits in what I type. However I do need to work on separating fact wording it to be different from my speculations I'm not a editor or trained to edit however I do edit what I type as best as I can.I don't know about common flaw but I do understand your point. Then again I do have adhd which might effect how I do things. However isn't an excuse its just I have a harder time focusing on things at times. Or spotting things that are obvious. Or think and type more clearly.

Saelent · February 2020

StaticWave wrote: »

Seriously, the forums is full of misinformation. I get it people have different opinions, but when it comes to combat feedback, posts like spread more misinformation than actual useful information.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514052/combat-changes-are-pretty-good#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514181/what-people-should-understand-about-animation-canceling-beneficial-lag-and-the-performance-overhauls#latest

I honestly think Forum mods should heavily moderate these kinds of posts to prevent further spreading of misinformation. It's a shame that normal mechanics in the game are being put on blast by people who have zero knowledge of how the game works.

I can see opinion stated as fact in your post.
Maybe you should be moderated?

As I see it the forums do spread a lot of misinformation, people like you make it out that the game is dying, people like you put new players off and people like you can’t accept that there are people like me who don’t have your system/graphical/internet issues.

That’s why devs can’t wave a magic wand to fix everything, but they’re still trying to tweak things so someone’s marshmallow powered Linux graphics card can still have a chance at running this game.

But people like you will make things out to be worse every patch than they are.
There might be more people like you on the forums, but not in the game...or this ‘cash cow’ game would have been abandoned with the last 27 updates that were moaned about.

People like you mean that ZoS can’t go off the forums and the whine threads to make changes, they have to go by the numbers in the game.
I think I’ll go ahead and report your post for what it is, baiting and unhelpful, let’s see what the mods decide.

Bradyfjord · February 2020

I see what you're saying OP. People should cite their sources and let people know when they offer their opinions.

But anyone reading anything also has a responsibility to vet the things they read to screen for misinformation. This is not the moderator's duty as we know it.

People need an environment where they can share ideas, information, and opinions. People should also scrutinize what they read.

Unless the post being read is from a ZOS employee/official we should assume that we are reading someone's opinion.

The only thing I worry about in relation to the discussions here would be for someone looking before playing since they won't be able to post and ask questions. People might be turned away by this. But it isn't, as of now, the norm for video game forums to be policed for accuracy.

But if you read through the forums you will see that sometimes ZOS employees will chime in on a thread to provide insight.

Tldr: This is an ESO video game forum. Expect to see opinions about the ESO video game. Lighten up. 🍺😀

colossalvoids · February 2020

Heavy moderation is indeed needed, as some might form their opinions around this... Well, info. And it's never a good start.

Also dev teams surely need way less moderation from above and actually talk with players in their language more than with standardised responses and going miles to not be transparent about stuff. Not everyone is on a same page yet people need to be informed properly to stop misinterpretations and guessing.

Saelent · February 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

Heavy moderation is indeed needed, as some might form their opinions around this... Well, info. And it's never a good start.

Also dev teams surely need way less moderation from above and actually talk with players in their language more than with standardised responses and going miles to not be transparent about stuff. Not everyone is on a same page yet people need to be informed properly to stop misinterpretations and guessing.

Mods can’t be transparent about anything because some people will take everything they say as the next encyclopaedia of Mundus. Then complain about it.

So until anything is able to be released, they can’t say anything. If you’ve done anything with marketing it does make sense...just annoying.

Bradyfjord · February 2020

colossalvoids wrote: »

Heavy moderation is indeed needed, as some might form their opinions around this... Well, info. And it's never a good start.

Also dev teams surely need way less moderation from above and actually talk with players in their language more than with standardised responses and going miles to not be transparent about stuff. Not everyone is on a same page yet people need to be informed properly to stop misinterpretations and guessing.

People are informed when an official communication is released, whether a mod's post, public release on their website, and so on. Thus, anything else should be assumed to be someone's opinion.

As far as the devs needing our input, I cautiously agree. I have noticed that people usually tell you what they want, not what they need.

As far as needing moderators to shut down discussion? No, they shouldn't unless it gets to the point of namecalling and such. People will disagree on things, and a polite discussion (like this thread) is a wonderful thing. Why make an environment where people censor themselves beyond what is needed for polite conversation? Do you discuss things in private by citing your sources? I usually don't either.

Tldr: People usually speak/write their opinions as if they are fact, but that is because they believe their opinion to be true. That includes me and you.

zyk · February 2020

It's never going to get better. What percentage of players do you think know how much break-free costs? I'd guess 0.01% The target audience of this game don't want to have to know how things work. They didn't like what games were and are the reason why almost every big publisher game sucks. They want impossible to lose gameplay that just works without learning how it works. Worse, some want it dumbed down to the point where no one can be better than them -- AKA lowering the ceiling.

I think ESO's dev team at launch legitimately wanted to make a gamer's game. I think they even had hopes end game ESO would be highly competitive. But it launched unfinished, disappointed customers because of bugs and limited content so it failed to retain subs. I think ZOS lost any semblance of autonomy after that.

I expect they will continue to let high ARPU demos dictate the path of development.

I'm still sad for ESO because it had the potential to be an all-time great game, but it will never realize it.

sionIV · February 2020

You're opening a door here that you don't want to open. You don't want ZOS to start censoring players because they (ZOS) don't agree with the information.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

Well what I have noticed is there is no moderation going on in these forums during the nighttime hours only when they open up do they go through everything and basically moderate whats already been going on most of the night. I do think the forums could benefit from having some volunteer community moderators they don't get payed or work for Zos but have the ability to either close threads or edit them just like a normal moderator.
I do think they do need to have more people around do that job. Otherwise its only during daylight hours In america that these forums get moderated.
I would like to see the ability to close our own threads as well. Just because some of them might go down the downward spiral or maybe they were not the best idea and maybe close them if we feel the need to do so. It would be helpful for sure.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

@StaticWave after reading your comments and after putting some thought into it on what to do with that thread. I went ahead and edited my post to make it better and less misinformation as that was not the intent. So I do appreciate the criticism. We all have egos at times and well making ourselves not be be ruled by them is something hopefully many folks can find themselves to do. Including myself that is why I'm going to thank you for calling me out on it.

Lysette · February 2020

sionIV wrote: »

You're opening a door here that you don't want to open. You don't want ZOS to start censoring players because they (ZOS) don't agree with the information.

It would defy the purpose of the forum anyway. ZOS has this in place to get feedback about what people feel and think and what is in their mind and interest. That is why they let us say whatever we like as long as it is not against the forum rules. It is valuable input for them - even annoying complain threads are important for them, to see the impact some features have on people and which group feels bad about it and why.

So ZOS isn't going to censor this - other than removing content which isn't compliant with forum rules.

BohnT2 · February 2020

It would go a long way in balance discussions if any post that is spreading misinformation was marked as such and removed.

Saying all debuffs are equal in power and only their number matters ---> post gone
Saying animation cancelling is unintended ---> post gone
Saying PvP is responsible for most nerfs ---> post gone
Saying light attack weaving is unintended ---> post gone
Saying there is no option to desync with snipe ---> post gone

Saelent · February 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

It would go a long way in balance discussions if any post that is spreading misinformation was marked as such and removed.

Saying all debuffs are equal in power and only their number matters ---> post gone
Saying animation cancelling is unintended ---> post gone
Saying PvP is responsible for most nerfs ---> post gone
Saying light attack weaving is unintended ---> post gone
Saying there is no option to desync with snipe ---> post gone

That sounds an awful lot like things you just disagree with...

TheFM · February 2020

StaticWave wrote: »

Seriously, the forums is full of misinformation. I get it people have different opinions, but when it comes to combat feedback, posts like spread more misinformation than actual useful information.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514052/combat-changes-are-pretty-good#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514181/what-people-should-understand-about-animation-canceling-beneficial-lag-and-the-performance-overhauls#latest

I honestly think Forum mods should heavily moderate these kinds of posts to prevent further spreading of misinformation. It's a shame that normal mechanics in the game are being put on blast by people who have zero knowledge of how the game works.

Posts that are lies but paint a good picture are allowed. Critical posts that show what's really going on, locked.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

TheFM wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Seriously, the forums is full of misinformation. I get it people have different opinions, but when it comes to combat feedback, posts like spread more misinformation than actual useful information.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514052/combat-changes-are-pretty-good#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514181/what-people-should-understand-about-animation-canceling-beneficial-lag-and-the-performance-overhauls#latest

I honestly think Forum mods should heavily moderate these kinds of posts to prevent further spreading of misinformation. It's a shame that normal mechanics in the game are being put on blast by people who have zero knowledge of how the game works.

Posts that are lies but paint a good picture are allowed. Critical posts that show what's really going on, locked.

Depends on if they are constructive not. As that seems to be what they like to see on the forums constructive debate and respectable discussion.

TheFM · February 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Seriously, the forums is full of misinformation. I get it people have different opinions, but when it comes to combat feedback, posts like spread more misinformation than actual useful information.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514052/combat-changes-are-pretty-good#latest
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/514181/what-people-should-understand-about-animation-canceling-beneficial-lag-and-the-performance-overhauls#latest

I honestly think Forum mods should heavily moderate these kinds of posts to prevent further spreading of misinformation. It's a shame that normal mechanics in the game are being put on blast by people who have zero knowledge of how the game works.

Posts that are lies but paint a good picture are allowed. Critical posts that show what's really going on, locked.

Depends on if they are constructive not.

Even constructive criticism is deleted or silenced. A lot of people here think all criticism is bad and mass report any and all. Even my constructive posts were met with people insulting me on a personal level , calling me a no life addict, and telling me to go to therapy. Yet ironically those posts , never got deleted.

BohnT2 · February 2020

Saelent wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

It would go a long way in balance discussions if any post that is spreading misinformation was marked as such and removed.

Saying all debuffs are equal in power and only their number matters ---> post gone
Saying animation cancelling is unintended ---> post gone
Saying PvP is responsible for most nerfs ---> post gone
Saying light attack weaving is unintended ---> post gone
Saying there is no option to desync with snipe ---> post gone

That sounds an awful lot like things you just disagree with...

1. Major protection adds more mitigation than major resolve, minor resolve and minor protection
2. has been officially accepted as a feature back in 2015
3. compare explanation for morrowind nerfs, dragonhold dot changes, AoE and single target dots changes all of those have been either heavily based around PvE or have been there due to both modes
4. read the lvl 40 level up advice
5. has been proven multiple times and I'm not gonna spread how it's done

Maybe we should start with your post

idk · February 2020

Well, the first thread is merely an opinion. They are not saying anything about combat other than they like the changes.

The second one, the original OP of it, was confusing as it contains a lot of information that was irrelevant to the topic and much of it was really surmised. I have not read the edited OP but even the first sentence is incorrect.

So many threads in the forums start with incorrect comparisons and profess false and misleading information out of the incorrect comparisons. That is when they actually try to make it look like they are basing their opinion in fact.

However, I do not think Zos should police the forums to remove those threads. Zos is not that obtuse and many of us tend to point out the fallacy of the argument they are presenting.

Thevampirenight · February 2020

idk wrote: »

Well, the first thread is merely an opinion. They are not saying anything about combat other than they like the changes.

The second one, the original OP of it, was confusing as it contains a lot of information that was irrelevant to the topic and much of it was really surmised. I have not read the edited OP but even the first sentence is incorrect.

So many threads in the forums start with incorrect comparisons and profess false and misleading information out of the incorrect comparisons. That is when they actually try to make it look like they are basing their opinion in fact.

However, I do not think Zos should police the forums to remove those threads. Zos is not that obtuse and many of us tend to point out the fallacy of the argument they are presenting.

Yeah sometimes we can point out fallacy in other peoples threads but then sometimes we make our own fallacy of a thread. So its best to be careful not to judge others as you could end up doing the same thing and well. I imagine several people here have a thread they are not proud of. Or have said some stupid things they look back in a few years and can't even believe they posted that. I've had those moments, I did try my best on my thread to fix it. But I know not everyone will be happy and well I understand that. Does not mean that one can't just well share their opinion in why you disagree in a constructive manner. Or even say what areas you do agree with them on. So it depends on certain factors.

Saelent · February 2020

BohnT2 wrote: »

Saelent wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

It would go a long way in balance discussions if any post that is spreading misinformation was marked as such and removed.

Saying all debuffs are equal in power and only their number matters ---> post gone
Saying animation cancelling is unintended ---> post gone
Saying PvP is responsible for most nerfs ---> post gone
Saying light attack weaving is unintended ---> post gone
Saying there is no option to desync with snipe ---> post gone

That sounds an awful lot like things you just disagree with...

1. Major protection adds more mitigation than major resolve, minor resolve and minor protection
2. has been officially accepted as a feature back in 2015
3. compare explanation for morrowind nerfs, dragonhold dot changes, AoE and single target dots changes all of those have been either heavily based around PvE or have been there due to both modes
4. read the lvl 40 level up advice
5. has been proven multiple times and I'm not gonna spread how it's done

Maybe we should start with your post

Lol
Don’t you remember that they label stuff features when they can’t fix the cause? Running on the back of a horse is a feature now.
Next it will be (in my opinion, let’s not be stating LIES now!) that having your weapon at your feet is a feature.

ZOS_Volpe · February 2020

Greetings,

We decided to close this thread due to cross posting and baiting. If you believe that a post violates the Forum Rules and you would like a moderator to review the situation, you can report that post and we would be happy to look into it.

Thank you for your understanding.