Aegis caller Staves and Bow's?? Why?

Ozby · February 2020

Why are there Staves and Bows for Aegis caller if it needs a Melee skill to proc?

Ozby · February 2020

Raisin · February 2020

Well, technically it doesn't have to be a meelee WEAPON skill. It still works. That's all I've got.

Kadoin · February 2020

For us hybrids

Kombinator · February 2020

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Ozby · February 2020

Kadoin wrote: »

For us hybrids

saying hybrid doesn't make sense cause the lightning staff should not proc it when it says melee skills.

Olupajmibanan · February 2020

Ozby wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

For us hybrids

saying hybrid doesn't make sense cause the lightning staff should not proc it when it says melee skills.

It does not. But it does proc from other melee skills that are not tied to weapon. This way you can enable the 5pc bonus with bow equiped, but proc it via other skill such as Surprise Attack.

yRaven · February 2020

Well they removed Advanced Yokeda bows because it don't makes sense, so they could do the same here, but not that i really care

Milchbart · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

All set has all stuff.

Wrong!

There are no such things as a viper bow/staff or an advancing yokeda bow/staff ....

virtus753 · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Melee proc sets don’t, though. They do not drop bows or staves. Advancing Yokeda was already mentioned, but there are several other examples as well, like Viper. The devs have been clear that bows and staves are no longer meant to drop for these sets. They had to revert that change for Ravager when they changed its proc away from melee-specific.

If the proc is not melee-specific, though, then any weapon should drop.

caperb · February 2020

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

But that set has a use for melee weapons, like most weapons. Aegis Caller ranged weapons are quite useless unless you want the proc on your backbar (but then, this bar usually reserved for arena weapons). I can assure you my tank has SPC s&b and is using it a lot together with blood fountain for when the healer doesn't have or use olirome/SPC.

Ozby · February 2020

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

For us hybrids

saying hybrid doesn't make sense cause the lightning staff should not proc it when it says melee skills.

It does not. But it does proc from other melee skills that are not tied to weapon. This way you can enable the 5pc bonus with bow equiped, but proc it via other skill such as Surprise Attack.

No they need to change the tool tip or remove the staves and bow's from what I can tell just like Advancing Yokeda etc. Just seems pointless tbh having these items in this set when you have so many better options.

Arunei · February 2020

virtus753 wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Melee proc sets don’t, though. They do not drop bows or staves. Advancing Yokeda was already mentioned, but there are several other examples as well, like Viper. The devs have been clear that bows and staves are no longer meant to drop for these sets. They had to revert that change for Ravager when they changed its proc away from melee-specific.

If the proc is not melee-specific, though, then any weapon should drop.

If these items aren't supposed to drop for proc sets anymore, it might have just been that the Aegis set was overlooked (or knowing ZOS, they just forgot about it because someone didn't feel like actually going through all the sets to make sure all the applicable ones had Staves/Bows removed).

@Ozby
I'd suggest putting in a ticket about it, and maybe posting about it in the Feedback and/or Bugs forums too, just so it gets more exposure there than it likely will here. Might not do any good, but hey, at least you'll have tried, and that's more than we can say for ZOS at times.

VaranisArano · February 2020

Milchbart wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

All set has all stuff.

Wrong!

There are no such things as a viper bow/staff or an advancing yokeda bow/staff ....

Except that there are still occasionally players who really want a viper or AY bow, even though it won't proc.

So I dunno. Logically, ZOS should stay consistent with the smart loot implemented with One Tamriel, but I can see the argument that if they don't include the useless weapons, someone's going to want them.

virtus753 · February 2020

Arunei wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Melee proc sets don’t, though. They do not drop bows or staves. Advancing Yokeda was already mentioned, but there are several other examples as well, like Viper. The devs have been clear that bows and staves are no longer meant to drop for these sets. They had to revert that change for Ravager when they changed its proc away from melee-specific.

If the proc is not melee-specific, though, then any weapon should drop.

If these items aren't supposed to drop for proc sets anymore, it might have just been that the Aegis set was overlooked (or knowing ZOS, they just forgot about it because someone didn't feel like actually going through all the sets to make sure all the applicable ones had Staves/Bows removed).

I’m sure it was just overlooked, yes.

I like the thought of having a matching bow available, especially for someone who wants to benefit from the 4th bonus even if they won’t proc the 5th one. I suppose now one can run any bow for the second piece bonus instead, but really why not have the full set available at that rate? I can go craft a bow that gives weapon damage and it will be the equivalent of an Aegis Caller bow, so the devs are really not changing anything about how we play in removing melee proc bows/staves. They’re just denying us the ability to make it part of the same set, which is being restrictive for no real end.

I don’t like the current implementation of “smart” loot — because really, the named lightning staff of Dreugh King Slayer would like to have a word. The fact of the matter is that the fourth piece bonus of an Aegis Caller bow would probably do better for a stam build than a lot of alternatives. It’s “smarter” in that sense than a lot of the strange combos that you see drop. (Bone Pirate resto is another one that tickles me immensely.)

Banana · February 2020

I imagine it's a coding thing. You'd have to add exclusions which would mean more work for no pay off. Financially speaking.

Arunei · February 2020

@virtus753
I feel less like it was just overlooked than it's just the inconsistency ZOS is pretty much known for these days. Though honestly, I don't see why they don't just leave every piece as a potential drop for every set. On the one hand I suppose it would lower your chances of getting a weapon that actually benefits your build if you wouldn't use the thing that doesn't proc the thing, but on the other hand for people who make really weird niche builds or just want a complete 'set' of any given set it would probably be nice for them to be able to get all the things.

It doesn't really affect me either way since I never bother with those kinds of sets, but it wouldn't bother me if they just added all pieces as drops for all sets. I haven't bothered getting new gear for any of my chars in years for some of them (the most recent person I got gear for was my WW who's pretty much useless now with the changes in u24, and I got her stuff probably 6 or 7 months ago) and have no intentions on getting new sets any time soon, so it wouldn't mean anything to me one way or the other.

Edit because I accidentally a word.

JanTanhide · February 2020

But remember when ZOS removed the Bow from Viper long ago because it was Melee? Mmmm...

VaranisArano · February 2020

JanTanhide wrote: »

But remember when ZOS removed the Bow from Viper long ago because it was Melee? Mmmm...

Yep, and then they later made bows count for 2 set bonuses. So Viper bows are now in that weird state where the 5th bonus is useless but they could still be used for the 4th bonus if they existed.

zaria · February 2020

virtus753 wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Melee proc sets don’t, though. They do not drop bows or staves. Advancing Yokeda was already mentioned, but there are several other examples as well, like Viper. The devs have been clear that bows and staves are no longer meant to drop for these sets. They had to revert that change for Ravager when they changed its proc away from melee-specific.

If the proc is not melee-specific, though, then any weapon should drop.

Downside of not having bows is that although 5th effect might never proc you still have the 4th effect.
Also is not skills like killer blade melee ability

EvilAutoTech · February 2020

They seem to have abandoned smart loot. I still have my nice epic soldier of anguish ice staff.

The real shocker is that ZOS never answered in my thread either (November of 2018).

MudcrabAttack · February 2020

Keep the bows, it's a crowd killing set and many classes have a decent melee skill of one type or another. Double bow deals decent AOE damage as well.

Also Azureblight procs on both Aegis Caller DOTs and Acid Spray DOTs, which can cover a 22m cone area. You could get a crowd of mobs to explode fairly quickly with all the dots.

Varana · February 2020

Honestly, I'd rather have it that they reintroduced Viper bows. Because, as many others have noted, you can still do melee damage with a bow equipped - you just need to use a melee ability.

For a set like Soldier of Anguish that procs specifically from melee light attacks, you could make the case that a bow and staves are useless. But not for Aegis Caller.

virtus753 · February 2020

zaria wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Kombinator wrote: »

For the same reason Spell Power Cure sword exist. All set has all stuff.

Melee proc sets don’t, though. They do not drop bows or staves. Advancing Yokeda was already mentioned, but there are several other examples as well, like Viper. The devs have been clear that bows and staves are no longer meant to drop for these sets. They had to revert that change for Ravager when they changed its proc away from melee-specific.

If the proc is not melee-specific, though, then any weapon should drop.

Downside of not having bows is that although 5th effect might never proc you still have the 4th effect.
Also is not skills like killer blade melee ability

Indeed, as I said above — but you can always craft a bow to replace that fourth piece bonus with a two-piece one. For example, a Mechanical Acuity bow will provide the same weapon damage bonus you would get with the fourth piece of Aegis Caller. But if you prefer max stamina or stam recovery you can go with a different bow.

Nemesis7884 · February 2020

Ozby wrote: »

Why are there Staves and Bows for Aegis caller if it needs a Melee skill to proc?

cant you still do melee with class abilities...

virtus753 · February 2020

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

Ozby wrote: »

Why are there Staves and Bows for Aegis caller if it needs a Melee skill to proc?

cant you still do melee with class abilities...

Yes, in which case if this set has a bow, so should Viper.

thadjarvis · February 2020

yRaven wrote: »

Well they removed Advanced Yokeda bows because it don't makes sense, so they could do the same here, but not that i really care

True, but that has a persistent rapid melee attack stacking requirement. Aegis just requires one melee crit every 12 seconds. Who knows, someone will make a front bar frost staff tank with backbar bow and wear the set. Likely a better use than that but not everyone initially tries all ideas and they don't have to be optimal.

Eg. someone mentioned SPC sword as an example I presume of a useless item. Before Olorime and Claw existed SPC on a 3 DPS dungeon tank was likely the best possible set to wear and back then many double barred SnB (meaning they needed two swords). Point is junk to you could be either fun or even optimal for someone else.

Brandathorbel · February 2020

yRaven wrote: »

Well they removed Advanced Yokeda bows because it don't makes sense, so they could do the same here, but not that i really care

how about not. some of us do not bother with getting maelstrom bows so its nice to have the set on both bars.

Rave the Histborn · February 2020

Ozby wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

For us hybrids

saying hybrid doesn't make sense cause the lightning staff should not proc it when it says melee skills.

It says melee abilities so it can proc on melee skills even with a ranged weapon

thadjarvis · February 2020

xbobx15 wrote: »

yRaven wrote: »

Well they removed Advanced Yokeda bows because it don't makes sense, so they could do the same here, but not that i really care

how about not. some of us do not bother with getting maelstrom bows so its nice to have the set on both bars.

If you've been looking for an AY bow for backbar, I believe a bow of a craft-able set with Weapon Critical 2-piece is identical to a would be AY backbar bow. Night Mother or one less trait to craft Kvatch would do it.

However, I think Agility was competitive with that option or slightly better before they buffed Agility. Thus, you might find best results will Agility. Can buy an infused one for 1-10k depending on how many minutes you care to look.

Ozby · February 2020

Yeah so really they should bring the Viper and AY bows etc back if they proc off melee skills cause Mag DK's and NB's can proc them. It will make farming the good bits harder though. But seems silly to have double standards on the loot you can't remove the other's and leave this one as is really. They could also just amend the proc condition to not be melee at all. I would love bow bow Aegis caller.