Change/add to the Emperor conditions to discourage Boosting

ArchMikem · February 2020

More often than not it's always the same players who actively Boost millions of AP to ensure whenever their faction crowns an Emp, it's them. It's never decided by skill or contribution to the team. Emperor's get 2x Regen across the board, 2x Ultimate gain, and 75% more resources across the board. A well built player suddenly becomes nigh unstoppable a lot of the time short of throwing at least a dozen players at them. With such a large boost to a player's combat capability, the conditions to award these buffs should be more than just shadowy dealings at a back keep with a couple cross faction buddies.

Royaji · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

shadowy dealings at a back keep with a couple cross faction buddies.

If only ZOS had adressed farming AP in this way... Oh, they did.

There are diminishing returns on killing the same players or flipping the same keep back and forth.

nsmurfer · February 2020

Killing buddies is not the most efficiently way to earn AP. Most efficiently is buying around 2million gold worth of repairs kits and using it all at the start campaign. You will earn enough AP to safely stay out of reach of any player normally playing the game.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

ArchMikem · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

Well, I don't have a solution, but the current method of getting emp (as an individual) is obviously deeply flawed, and encourages (at best) play which doesn't benefit your faction at all, or (at worst), outright exploiting, like the above.

Kadoin · February 2020

That's why I never really care about emperor. Most still die even as emperor to me, which I find amusing...

ellahellabella · February 2020

Uhh guys? Unless the server is totally deserted, mason emps are more than 2 years behind meta.
If you have experience along with a good nose for ap, you will go exactly where you need to.
You can laugh but that's literally how it's done.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

ellahellabella wrote: »

If you have experience along with a good nose for ap, you will go exactly where you need to.

If you're a bomber being useless and bombing folks after a keeps taken, you can get emp legit. If you run groups and benefit your faction, it's much harder, but still possible. What Mike was talking about, I know Xbox NA Laat, it's only active 4-5 hours a day. You don't make 1M+ AP a day in there regardless of how "good" your nose is.

Plus, after this post was made the guy was removed from the leaderboard, I presume by zos.

wazzz56 · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

if you can't get 500k in a 30 day span you may need to switch up some of the ways you're doing things tbh..just saying

Crown · February 2020

I've written a few guides that may help understanding:

Royaji wrote: »

There are diminishing returns on killing the same players or flipping the same keep back and forth.

@Royaji Players are worth maximum AP after five minutes. I believe that the increase from worth 0 as soon as they resurrect until max at 5 minutes is linear, though never bothered to check. If anyone wants to find out for certain:

Kill someone and see how much AP you get.
Kill them again as close to 60 seconds (1 minute) after they resurrect as you can, and record the AP.
Kill them again as close to 120 seconds (2 minutes) after they resurrect as you can, and record the AP.
Kill them again as close to 180 seconds (3 minutes) after they resurrect as you can, and record the AP.
Kill them again as close to 240 seconds (4 minutes) after they resurrect as you can, and record the AP.
Kill them again as close to 300 seconds (5 minutes) after they resurrect as you can, and record the AP.
Plot the AP over time on a graph and see if it's straight.

Keeps and resources are only worth AP 5 minutes after they were taken last, so you can't trade the same resource immediately. This won't stop groups of 6 players from cycling one resource to the next as around a keep.

nsmurfer wrote: »

Killing buddies is not the most efficiently way to earn AP. Most efficiently is buying around 2million gold worth of repairs kits and using it all at the start campaign. You will earn enough AP to safely stay out of reach of any player normally playing the game.

@nsmurfer That is completely wrong. You'll run out of walls to repair very quickly. Repairing definitely helps with some initial AP if there is nothing to fight on the map, but it is by no means a good way to stay in the lead.

ArchMikem wrote: »

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

@ArchMikem You can easily make 75k AP / hour just taking resources with a group of 6 players (for fastest flag flipping speed you need 6 people on it) and killing the occasional player who comes to fight. If you only make 500k in a campaign, you're probably not playing thinking about AP.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Well, I don't have a solution, but the current method of getting emp (as an individual) is obviously deeply flawed, and encourages (at best) play which doesn't benefit your faction at all, or (at worst), outright exploiting, like the above.

@Mr_Walker You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

Kadoin wrote: »

That's why I never really care about emperor. Most still die even as emperor to me, which I find amusing...

Emperor is nowhere near as powerful as it was back in the day. A good player/build could 1v24 and win back in the 1.5 era.

notvenousdrake · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

More often than not it's always the same players who actively Boost millions of AP to ensure whenever their faction crowns an Emp, it's them. It's never decided by skill or contribution to the team. Emperor's get 2x Regen across the board, 2x Ultimate gain, and 75% more resources across the board. A well built player suddenly becomes nigh unstoppable a lot of the time short of throwing at least a dozen players at them. With such a large boost to a player's combat capability, the conditions to award these buffs should be more than just shadowy dealings at a back keep with a couple cross faction buddies.

I doubt it’s boosting more just people knowing how to spend time effectively, and importantly not calling anyone who’s in first a booster.

wazzz56 · February 2020

@Crown pretty much summed it up.....as far as the changes to the AP making AR50 easier.....that is the point where PvP went down hill tbh..when they raised the values for keeps and rss .....flipping rss and Pvdoor became way too lucrative, actually killing people became secondary to many in PvP.....add in the over performance of Heavy armor and weapon ults and the new food and drinks that have popped up over the years (way easier to sustain now than it should be tbh), and what I feel like was the best time of eso Pvp, was dead....bring back 1.6....

ArchMikem · February 2020

wazzz56 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

if you can't get 500k in a 30 day span you may need to switch up some of the ways you're doing things tbh..just saying

Does a normal person with a job and such find the time to spend hours for 30 days straight in Cyrodiil while wishing to maintain their sanity? I'm not some kid anymore with all the time on his hands and the moral lacking to cheat to be on top, and that being said;

notvenousdrake wrote: »

I doubt it’s boosting more just people knowing how to spend time effectively, and importantly not calling anyone who’s in first a booster.

Even if boosting is somehow not involved, even for someone spending every waking hour in Cyrodiil, using the 50% Delve Boss buff and zerg surfing, it's absurd to believe a 10 million point lead over #2 on the board is by "spending time effectively".

Mr_Walker · February 2020

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

notvenousdrake wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

More often than not it's always the same players who actively Boost millions of AP to ensure whenever their faction crowns an Emp, it's them. It's never decided by skill or contribution to the team. Emperor's get 2x Regen across the board, 2x Ultimate gain, and 75% more resources across the board. A well built player suddenly becomes nigh unstoppable a lot of the time short of throwing at least a dozen players at them. With such a large boost to a player's combat capability, the conditions to award these buffs should be more than just shadowy dealings at a back keep with a couple cross faction buddies.

I doubt it’s boosting more just people knowing how to spend time effectively, and importantly not calling anyone who’s in first a booster.

In Laat on Xbox NA, the above screenshot is guaranteed, hardcore boosting. Not only boosting, but so blatant as to be taking the mickey.

wazzz56 · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Neither of the first 2 respondents obviously has any idea what's actually happened here, but I can guarantee it's not legit, not is it from running around repairing walls (just lol).

My mind can't even fathom what really goes on. I very rarely reach 500k score in a single Campaign by simply playing the objective, yet these people get to ten million after a week.

if you can't get 500k in a 30 day span you may need to switch up some of the ways you're doing things tbh..just saying

Does a normal person with a job and such find the time to spend hours for 30 days straight in Cyrodiil while wishing to maintain their sanity? I'm not some kid anymore with all the time on his hands and the moral lacking to cheat to be on top, and that being said;

notvenousdrake wrote: »

I doubt it’s boosting more just people knowing how to spend time effectively, and importantly not calling anyone who’s in first a booster.

Even if boosting is somehow not involved, even for someone spending every waking hour in Cyrodiil, using the 50% Delve Boss buff and zerg surfing, it's absurd to believe a 10 million point lead over #2 on the board is by "spending time effectively".

I am not a kid either, I am a high school special ed teacher and play for a couple of hours before bed each night and still have no issue earning AP...500k is literally less than 3 keep takes a day if that is your thing...or you could find a rss or out post and farm it up, either way 100k plus an hour is not that hard if you do it right.

Luede · February 2020

nsmurfer wrote: »

Killing buddies is not the most efficiently way to earn AP. Most efficiently is buying around 2million gold worth of repairs kits and using it all at the start campaign. You will earn enough AP to safely stay out of reach of any player normally playing the game.

yeah, sure. PC EU AD u need 1million+ AP the first day, so u rapair around 12k times ur keeps? How fast do u repair? 3 Seconds/repair? so u get 1 million AP in 10 hours nonstop repair...

sorry, its not the fastes way to earn APs...

Delphinia · February 2020

I don’t keep up with what’s going on in the game much, so please forgive me if this has already been mentioned somewhere else, but I thought I’d heard months ago they were going to make it so the same player could not emp more than once.

wazzz56 · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Mr_Walker · February 2020

wazzz56 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Don't even pretend that's why people do it, it's an insult to my intelligence.

wazzz56 · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Don't even pretend that's why people do it, it's an insult to my intelligence.

never said that is why they do it, did I? I asked a legit question...may I get a legit response?

Crown · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Don't even pretend that's why people do it, it's an insult to my intelligence.

It's definitely not why we farm opponents, but @wazzz56 is correct that we tie up well more opponents that we have players in group. If my group of 16 can keep 40+ opponents busy, there is no excuse for the "campaign/map players" not being able to push the map.

A word of advice.. If you get upset at how other people play - notably when they don't play the way that you want them to, you're going to spend more time stressed and unhappy than enjoying the game. I used to take the game a lot more seriously, and can confidently say that I'm a lot happier now just playing than stressing over the map and campaign.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

Crown wrote: »

A word of advice.. If you get upset...

A word of advice for you...don't be presumptuous.

Mr_Walker · February 2020

wazzz56 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Not particularly. These little moments of glory tend to last about 5 minutes, and the smart groups (that tend to get stuff done) have started ignoring them, by and large. I'm talking main;ly about the ball groups that run around inside unflagged keeps. People have wised up and know the ball groups have no interest in actually taking the keep, they can be left alone until they get bored and move on.

wazzz56 · February 2020

Mr_Walker wrote: »

wazzz56 wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

You're not wrong. As someone who has run AP farming groups since the start of the game, I'd like to point out that many people don't care about campaign score. Most don't remember who won last campaign, and I'd be surprised if anyone remembers who won 2-3 campaigns ago. It's nice to have a goal of winning a campaign, but I've often said, "Keeps flip back and forth, scrolls are run across the map, resources flip every few seconds, but AP lasts forever". Back then, achieving AR50 was significant. Now it can be done in 3 months by a dedicated individual playing for AP.

TBH I wish all the farming groups would get out of the main campaign, they're just a millstone around the neck of those who play the map.

How much of a millstone are they when they occupy large groups of the other alliances who get caught up in their farm? Is that not beneficial?

Not particularly. These little moments of glory tend to last about 5 minutes, and the smart groups (that tend to get stuff done) have started ignoring them, by and large. I'm talking main;ly about the ball groups that run around inside unflagged keeps. People have wised up and know the ball groups have no interest in actually taking the keep, they can be left alone until they get bored and move on.

5 minutes? lol, I won't even get started on that...but in all honesty it seems to me that you just want everyone to play the same way as you, and your comment about them being a millstone makes it seem like you view them as a burden. How does another's game play impact yours so much? If you want to pvdoor and sit on siege all day, that bothers me very little...so I don't get it lol...you have to understand, there are many people, like myself, who stopped caring about campaign score and leader board placement hundreds of millions of AP ago. I am not clowning you for your preference in game play, I just would rather play a different way, because, IMHO solo and small group play will go a long way in making you a better player, and I find it way more entertaining. Playing outnumbered is just more fun to me....but you do whatever makes you happy, just maybe not let others game play bother you so much...besides snipers......they suck

Mr_Walker · February 2020

wazzz56 wrote: »

5 minutes? lol, I won't even get started on that

I've fought both in and against ball groups. 5-10 minutes in general, yeah. Only in the "wide" keeps. "Narrow" keeps ball groups are easily handled by even a semi-competent pug (which is why they are largely avoided for farming).

wazzz56 wrote: »

there are many people, like myself, who stopped caring about campaign score and leader board placement hundreds of millions of AP ago.

Laatvulon may be for you then. Why join a game mode that you admit you care nothing about? An even more salient question... if you've made so much AP you don't need any more, and you don't care about the map, why be there at all? BGs?

wazzz56 wrote: »

IMHO solo and small group play will go a long way in making you a better player

I've played my share of it. It's got nothing to do with being a worse/better player, it's about playing to the map. That's the object of AvAvA, no? I'm happy to be in a small group that's taking objectives. I have no interest in running around a tower 47 times. It doesn't help my faction out, and does nothing but bore me.

wazzz56 wrote: »

but you do whatever makes you happy, just maybe not let others game play bother you so much...besides snipers......they suck

Not bothered at all. You and Crown both appear to have fallen in to the same trap of assuming a judgment must be accompanied by some strong emotion.

wazzz56 · February 2020

You do seem bothered though, as you made it known that you would rather have people who are not zerging keeps etc to leave the campaign. If other's playstyle didn't bother you, you would not care about ap farmers and where they played. I play, at this point, to have fun, and until ZOS closes a campaign to anything other than 24 person groups of zergharders, I will continue to play which ever campaign I find the most enjoyable (and yes I include bgs in my enjoyment). I said it earlier, I get that the large group stuff is enjoyable for some, but much like tower farming bores you, zerging bores me. In the end, I am going to keep doing what I find enjoyable. I am sorry if my friends and I hanging out at bleakers or a rss bothers/upsets/requires judgment from you, forgot you paid for our games.....also, in closing, buff snipe

Sandman929 · February 2020

ArchMikem wrote: »

Does a normal person with a job and such find the time to spend hours for 30 days straight in Cyrodiil while wishing to maintain their sanity? I'm not some kid anymore

This is the important part. I'm this too. Stop thinking about Emp if you're this. I play for a few hours a night 3-4 days a week..that's not going to cut it for Emp pushes so I just clear that out of my head and say "serenity now".

*There's no way to change Emp to give those with lives a chance against people who wake up and play until they go to bed.

josh.lackey_ESO · February 2020

The emperor should be an elected position.

Beardimus · March 2020

Royaji wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

shadowy dealings at a back keep with a couple cross faction buddies.

If only ZOS had adressed farming AP in this way... Oh, they did.

There are diminishing returns on killing the same players or flipping the same keep back and forth.

Boosting is still very much a think, just not with flipping. Folks feed ticks or something I can't work out but they doing it 100%