Trap Beast (Lightweight Beast Trap Morph) Buff Request

CrookedParadox · June 2019

Wanted to toss this out there (no pun intended), as a decent skill that just doesn't quite match the value of the other available Morph.

I'd like to suggest a couple of buffs:

1 - Increase the activation radius from 2.5m to 4m or even 5m to make it more reliable.

2 - Increase the duration of damage cycle from 6sec to 8sec, and maintain damage per sec amount effectively increasing total damage output.

3 - Remove or decrease activation time to account for travel time and to make the timer line up a bit more with standard 8ish second rotations.

Any seasoned input is appreciated, I'm currently using this skill with a double bow stamden on xB1 and Im really enjoying it. I think these little tweaks would help make it a useful morph and help more classes be viable as a ranged stamina build. I realize this may not be the most optimized build but, even with Hundings, Red Mountain, Stormfist (purple bows) and no pots, I was able to do 26k on a parse dummy alone with 810cp. I'm sure with trials sets, vMA bow on backbar, weapon power pots and an efficient run that this would be at least a respectable and, more importantly, a fun build to play.

MashmalloMan · June 2019

1. The radius is fine, if close to instant, the radius definitely shouldn't be changed.

2. 8s is still a bit too short for a 12s stam rotation. I would consider 10s duration as a happy medium between the 2 morphs and with the 1.5s arming time, this would fall in a 12s rotation. The dps of the rearming trap should be higher since it requires melee range to use, the ranged morph currently already provides more damage up front and per tick so if it lasted above 10s the damage would need to be nerfed to a more reasonable level.

For comparison using tooltips from eso-skillbook.com

Rearming Trap = 308 Upfront and 825 over 6s. (*2)
(308 + 825)2 = 2266 Total

Lightweight Trap = 441 Upfront and 1206 over 6s.
Keeping the dmg ticks the same would be 2010 dmg over 10s.
441 + 2010 = 2451 Total

3. I agree. Arming time should be instant or 0.5s since it has travel time.

Side note: Start using Tzogvin's Warband though. You will get 100% minor force uptime and free up an ability slot. I've stopped caring about wanting lightweight to be buffed since the set. Acid Spray is pretty strong since Elsweyr with slightly stronger tooltip dmg than Lethal Arrow.

CrookedParadox · June 2019

1 - As far as activation radius, my reasoning is to adjust for inherent inaccuracy at range. A 2.5m radius leaves very little room for error when you're firing from 12-20m away and the tooltip says it can be thrown as far as 28m. This is also coming from a console player, right stick accuracy just can't match a decent gaming mouse. Furthermore, it's still only hitting one character so you aren't gaining a whole lot other than a bit of convenience. This becomes especially important when considering the damage buff from the Long Shots passive on bows for attacking from range.

2 - You make an interesting point on the damage output with duration being extended. I didn't scutinize the tooltip damage to that extent but I was also looking at 8sec too. I see that 10sec would put it more inline with rotation value compared to Poison Injection, which seems to be the next shortest duration DoT.

As far as Tzogvin goes, I'll definitely look into it. If it's a new trials set, it will probably be a while before I get there. Ive only done a few trials so far and spend most of my time playing with just my wife when I'm on. All in all fair points and I hope that this discussion has some level of impact to where there's some adjustment. For now, it's still a useful skill when you want to stay ranged as a stamina DPS.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2019

It could definitely use a buff. If you are using Tzgovins then you don't need it, but the skill isn't good.

MashmalloMan · June 2019

CrookedParadox wrote: »

As far as Tzogvin goes, I'll definitely look into it. If it's a new trials set, it will probably be a while before I get there. Ive only done a few trials so far and spend most of my time playing with just my wife when I'm on. All in all fair points and I hope that this discussion has some level of impact to where there's some adjustment. For now, it's still a useful skill when you want to stay ranged as a stamina DPS.

Please do, it's a game changer. You will have much better sustain and minor force uptime. Tzgovins can be farmed on normal in the dungeon Frostvault from the Wrathstone DLC. It's a must have imo.

https://eso-sets.com/set/tzogvins-warband

CrookedParadox · June 2019

I'm going to guess that Tzogvin and Relequen are now the defacto 5 piece sets for stamina DPS from here on in. Kinda sad that they would create sets that are so clearly superior but maybe this will encourage them to improve other sets to catch up. That being said, as far as easy access goes, Red Mountain and Hundings are pretty decent while trying to gather the top tier options. Thanks for the heads up.

Now, the question is, what's the best monster set? Stormfist seems to have the most reliable, ranged damage amongst all of the stamina monster sets. I'm curious if there are other options that I'm missing though.

MashmalloMan · June 2019

CrookedParadox wrote: »

I'm going to guess that Tzogvin and Relequen are now the defacto 5 piece sets for stamina DPS from here on in. Kinda sad that they would create sets that are so clearly superior but maybe this will encourage them to improve other sets to catch up. That being said, as far as easy access goes, Red Mountain and Hundings are pretty decent while trying to gather the top tier options. Thanks for the heads up.

Now, the question is, what's the best monster set? Stormfist seems to have the most reliable, ranged damage amongst all of the stamina monster sets. I'm curious if there are other options that I'm missing though.

Correct.

Yeah I would be happy to see stamina buffed across the board while relequen reduced in proficiency to open up more options. Tzogvin isn't perfect though, it just saves you having to use crappy options for minor force since there isn't one. It's a perfect bow/bow set.

For example: If you compare Tzogvin on a melee dps using no Rearming Trap vs Advancing Yokeda with Rearming Trap, AY comes out on top quite a lot even if saving the skill slot because Rearming Trap is actually a pretty decent DoT. If lightweight trap was buffed you may see the same scenario, but for now, Tzogvin is awesome.

Velidreth is the other great ranged stam monster set. The spores can hit some bosses 3x making it a lot stronger than Stormfist.

CrookedParadox · June 2019

Interestingly, I have tried Velidreth as well. Unfortunately, the angle of the cone seems to make it unreliable for boss damage at my ideal range. DPS was similar on a dummy though. I may run it instead purely for the added AOE.

DoonerSeraph · June 2019

Maybe convert it into a targeted abilty, if its Lightweigth, it may be light enough for you to throw it at someones face right? 🙃

And the buff really needs to be extended, 6s is amazingly short.

MashmalloMan · June 2019

DoonerSeraph wrote: »

Maybe convert it into a targeted abilty, if its Lightweigth, it may be light enough for you to throw it at someones face right? 🙃

And the buff really needs to be extended, 6s is amazingly short.

Oh nice idea. Maybe just change it into a single target DoT like Poison Arrow. Lasts the same 10 seconds except it could be used as a ranged immobilize available for all classes. High cost, low damage and loss of 60 second trap could be how you balance it against the other morph.

Sadly. ZOS is unwilling to make logical and fun changes to the game so we have every stam melee class running the exact same abilities. Endless Hail -> Razor Caltrops -> Poison Injection -> Rearming Trap. 4/10 skills on your bar

MashmalloMan · June 2019

New Lightweight Trap:

CrookedParadox · June 2019

Definitely another interesting idea but I believe the skill would lose a portion of it's intended "trap" design. Still, it would be easier to use for sure.

Ragnarock41 · June 2019

I find that the arming time combined with throwing time makes this a bit too slow. Otherwise its an allright ability.

lukoi · June 2019

CrookedParadox wrote: »

I'm going to guess that Tzogvin and Relequen are now the defacto 5 piece sets for stamina DPS from here on in. Kinda sad that they would create sets that are so clearly superior but maybe this will encourage them to improve other sets to catch up. That being said, as far as easy access goes, Red Mountain and Hundings are pretty decent while trying to gather the top tier options. Thanks for the heads up.

Lokkestiiz is another great option and Sunspire is a relatively forgiving trial if you have it available.

NeroTheDk · February 2020

I am using Barbed Trap on my StamDK and it is working pretty good... when it hits. I’d also like to see its armed time reduced to 0 instead of 1.5. It will makes it usefulness more reliable in PvP and not just PvE.

Danksta · February 2020

I think they should just change this morph to rearming trap.